Would you date someone who holds the opp abortion belief?

[kaylan]

Pro-life means taking away someone's personal liberties. It means taking away MY personal liberties. It means restricting whether or not women can choose to have an abortion or would be forced to remain pregnant against their wills. It means legislating that.

 

If someone thinks abortions should be legal, available, safe, and so forth, they are pro-choice. They may still not LIKE abortions, ever imagine having one, etc. But pro-choice is about. . . choice. It's about the legal availability of choice.

Um no. There are pro lifers who very much believe in never ending a life...who do not support abortion in any way...but have a "well thats just the way the world is" attitude about it.

 

Its entirely possible to hold an opposing belief and viewpoint, yet accept that the world doesnt do everything the way you want.

Now, pro-lifers don't necessarily want to take away OTHER personal liberties because it is a single issue, but the whole stance is based on the desire to remove specific rights and liberties that women currently have to determine what happens to their bodies.

Like I said, you are looking like this in extremes. Nothing is all extremes, not for either side.

Of course, all pro-life groups aren't ALL about abortion, though I am amazed at pro-lifers who are also pro-death penalty. There are many groups like that, but some are also working against the death penalty---most Catholic groups would be, at least.

Meh. Im torn on the death penalty. While I do think dirtbags who kill dont deserve life...I also feel getting a quick death is an easy out. They should rot in jail for life, but that does cost tax dollars.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I would not be able to date someone who had aborted a pregnancy.

 

To me it shows a lack of moral reasoning and selfishness.

 

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that if you are pregnant... it's probably human. It is nearly universally recognized that taking another humans life is wrong in nearly every circumstance.

 

So, if a woman chooses to take human life with entirely selfish reasons I'm not going to accept that.

[veggirl]

Um no....not all pro lifers are trying to strip your legal access to abortion. That is patently false. I know several pro lifers and while some are out right against abortion, they simply say "thats on you if you do it" That was my ex. She was very very pro life, but wasnt trying to control people.

 

And being pro life isnt just about abortion. My ex was adamant that suicide was never the answer for someone. We had a huge disagreement about this once...she felt that someone could never exhaust the help they could receive. But I told her that sometimes people see no way out, so if they end their life...its said...but I felt "why should they leave in depression and unhappiness?"

 

No Kaylan. If someone thinks abortion should be legal, they are Pro-choice. Why is that so hard to understand? Look it up, ffs! This is not just a moral thing. If they think abortion should be illegal, they are pro-life. Seriously, we aren't wrong on the friggin definition, you are.

[kaylan]

^Im telling you that she had no opinions on the legality...what is she then? And it is a moral issue. jeez

[GorillaTheater]

I'm generally wary of zealots in any event, and especially when it comes to the topic of abortion. It's too nuanced an area for me to be comfortable with someone who believes either that it's always okay, or that it's never okay.

 

And I'm with Kaylan on "definitions". Yes, I lean towards abortions remaining safe and legal, but am too conflicted to label myself "pro choice". Because for me, the fact remains that life is cheap, and abortion only makes it cheaper.

[kiss_andmakeup]

^Im telling you that she had no opinions on the legality...what is she then? And it is a moral issue. jeez

 

She's pro-choice.

 

The whole point of the "pro-life" movement is to make abortion illegal for all women in (nearly) all situations.

[xxoo]

^Im telling you that she had no opinions on the legality...what is she then?

 

She's pro-choice.

 

Pro-choice means you believe other women should be able to make their own choice. Pro-choice does NOT mean pro-abortion (personally or politically).

[kaylan]

Shes not pro choice...trust me...I dont think this issue is as black and white as staunch pro choicers or staunch pro lifers try to make it. There are people who dont fall into neither of your extremes.

 

I guess we just havent decided to create a few new labels for ourselves. The labels that exist anyways are a tad subjective in my opinion anyways.

[kiss_andmakeup]

Shes not pro choice...trust me...I dont think this issue is as black and white as staunch pro choicers or staunch pro lifers try to make it. There are people who dont fall into neither of your extremes.

 

I guess we just havent decided to create a few new labels for ourselves. The labels that exist anyways are a tad subjective in my opinion anyways.

 

It actually is relatively black and white. You believe it should be legal, or you believe it should be illegal. Or you're undecided. Which is fine, too.

 

When it gets to a personal level, you're right. It isn't as black and white. But that's when the terms "pro choice" and "pro life" become inappropriate because they're the names of very divided political movements that carry a very specific set of beliefs.

 

I think people just wanted to point out the actual political weight of the term "pro-life" as you did not seem to be aware of it.

[EasyHeart]

I think this shows why trying to label political or philosophical beliefs is so silly:They mean different things to different people. All my Lefty friends hate me and call me a Fascist or Nazi; all my Righty friends hate me and call me a Communist.

 

I like to think of myself as "Pro-Death": Abortions for everyone and the gas chamber for criminals. Woo-hoo!!!!

[Untouchable_Fire]

No Kaylan. If someone thinks abortion should be legal, they are Pro-choice. Why is that so hard to understand? Look it up, ffs! This is not just a moral thing. If they think abortion should be illegal, they are pro-life. Seriously, we aren't wrong on the friggin definition, you are.

 

Kaylan is totally correct.

 

There are MANY people who are pro-life but are not interested in making abortion illegal.

 

Because of things like stem cell research and the day after pill... ect, lot's of people have had to make thoughtful compromises on these things.

 

She's pro-choice.

The whole point of the "pro-life" movement is to make abortion illegal for all women in (nearly) all situations.

 

That is completely false.

 

Otherwise we would not have the controversial law in Virginia requiring ultrasound pictures.

[kiss_andmakeup]

I think it's also worth noting that the OP specified "opposite abortion belief"...not just "different" or "slightly different." Many people are using pro-choice and pro-life as examples because that's about as opposite as it gets.

[kaylan]

What if someone believes it should be illegal but is not determined to work on making it illegal? They feel "well if I could id make any taking of life illegal...but it is what it is in this world...so thats life"

 

Like I said its not black and white.

[kiss_andmakeup]

Kaylan is totally correct.

 

There are MANY people who are pro-life but are not interested in making abortion illegal.

 

Because of things like stem cell research and the day after pill... ect, lot's of people have had to make thoughtful compromises on these things.

 

 

 

That is completely false.

 

Otherwise we would not have the controversial law in Virginia requiring ultrasound pictures.

 

I am referring to the PRO LIFE political movement. Go to their web page and read for yourself. Making abortion illegal IS their agenda.

 

Simply holding the view that abortion is morally wrong and that you'd never do it or endorse it yourself is NOT the same as being "Pro-Life."

[xxoo]

Shes not pro choice...trust me...I dont think this issue is as black and white as staunch pro choicers or staunch pro lifers try to make it. There are people who dont fall into neither of your extremes.

 

I guess we just havent decided to create a few new labels for ourselves. The labels that exist anyways are a tad subjective in my opinion anyways.

 

Believe it or not, many pro-choice women would never choose an abortion.

[kaylan]

I think this shows why trying to label political or philosophical beliefs is so silly:They mean different things to different people. All my Lefty friends hate me and call me a Fascist or Nazi; all my Righty friends hate me and call me a Communist.

 

I like to think of myself as "Pro-Death": Abortions for everyone and the gas chamber for criminals. Woo-hoo!!!!

This.

 

Some of you realize the terms conservative and liberal mean different things in certain European political climates right?

 

Or how about the fact that some republicans from WAY back in the day would actually be democrats if they were alive today.

 

All this labeling is silly. Like when people in the GOP call Obama a socialist when hes far from it. Europe has real socialism. USA aint that.

[kaylan]

Kaylan is totally correct.

 

There are MANY people who are pro-life but are not interested in making abortion illegal.

 

Because of things like stem cell research and the day after pill... ect, lot's of people have had to make thoughtful compromises on these things.

 

 

 

That is completely false.

 

Otherwise we would not have the controversial law in Virginia requiring ultrasound pictures.

This. Not all pro lifers are running to make abortion illegal.

 

They know its something thats just gonna be done sometimes, so compromises were made.

Believe it or not, many pro-choice women would never choose an abortion.

I know this. But it still doesnt change my point.

 

I know I wouldnt want a chick I actually saw as "wifey material" to abort our child. Probably could never look at her the same again if she did.

 

Itd be different if I got some chick pregnant who I didnt see myself ending up with in the long run.

Edited February 27, 2012 by kaylan

[EasyHeart]

Like when people in the GOP call Obama a socialist

Well. . . . let's not get carried away. Some labels are pretty damn accurate.

 

Jes sayin'.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I am referring to the PRO LIFE political movement. Go to their web page and read for yourself. Making abortion illegal IS their agenda.

Simply holding the view that abortion is morally wrong and that you'd never do it or endorse it yourself is NOT the same as being "Pro-Life."

 

It's PART of their agenda.

 

Look, it is a movement made up of individuals. They very often have differences of opinion and don't share the exact same goals.

 

The only common denominator is that they all reject the ever changing definition of a "human being".

[aj22one]

Believe it or not, many pro-choice women would never choose an abortion.

 

Yup. Arguing that pro-choice = pro-abortion is like saying that people who are in favor of legalizing drugs are all pot heads. No, we're not, we just want people to mind their own business and we want to keep the government from busting into houses and holding people up at gunpoint. Out of the bedroom and out of the boardroom I say.

 

This.

 

Some of you realize the terms conservative and liberal mean different things in certain European political climates right?

 

Or how about the fact that some republicans from WAY back in the day would actually be democrats if they were alive today.

 

All this labeling is silly. Like when people in the GOP call Obama a socialist when hes far from it. Europe has real socialism. USA aint that.

 

Yeah the "egalitarian liberals" stole the word liberal from the classical liberals (today's libertarians).

 

And it's not so simple as Republicans of old would be Democrats today. Republicans years ago were for big government, fiat money, and using the state to stamp out sinful behavior, much of that is still Republican policy. Meanwhile Democrats back in the day were for open borders, sound currency, free markets and civil liberties. No political party stands for that now.

[veggirl]

It actually is relatively black and white. You believe it should be legal, or you believe it should be illegal. Or you're undecided. Which is fine, too.

 

When it gets to a personal level, you're right. It isn't as black and white. But that's when the terms "pro choice" and "pro life" become inappropriate because they're the names of very divided political movements that carry a very specific set of beliefs.

 

I think people just wanted to point out the actual political weight of the term "pro-life" as you did not seem to be aware of it.

 

Thank you. They are political terms with VERY CLEAR definitions.

 

Kaylan is totally correct.

 

There are MANY people who are pro-life but are not interested in making abortion illegal.

 

Because of things like stem cell research and the day after pill... ect, lot's of people have had to make thoughtful compromises on these things.

 

 

 

That is completely false.

 

Otherwise we would not have the controversial law in Virginia requiring ultrasound pictures.

 

What? If they think abortion should be legal, then politically they are Pro-choice.

 

Why is this difficult to understand? They are words with definitions in this case. They are black and white. It is really NOT a difficult concept. As was mentioned, plenty of Pro-choice people would never choose to have an abortion. They still think women should have a choice. If you DONT think women should LEGALLY HAVE A CHOICE, YOU ARE PRO-LIFE. That is a fking FACT. If you DO think women LEGALLY SHOULD HAVE A CHOICE, YOU ARE PRO-CHOICE. That is a fking FACT.

 

God damn. It's NOT difficult to understand, this is what those words mean when it comes to legislation, etc. I don't give a FK if someone chooses not to have an abortion themself. That's NOT what this is about. Again, not difficult to understand.

 

Ugh, done with this, if people can't recognize simple definitions....fk it...damn. Really....:rolleyes:

[xxoo]

I know I wouldnt want a chick I actually saw as "wifey material" to abort our child. Probably could never look at her the same again if she did.

 

And this is why it is a dealbreaker for some people.

 

I'm married. I've carried and birthed this man's children. Still, if at some point in the future I feel I need an abortion (it would have to be a terribly desperate situation), I need a man who will support my choice.

[aj22one]

Well. . . . let's not get carried away. Some labels are pretty damn accurate.

 

Jes sayin'.

 

To an Anarcho-Capitalist, every politician is a socialist. haha

[Star Gazer]

Eh, I'm pretty sure that most women are pro-life when pregnant, regardless if they were pro-choice before or not.

 

Then how do you explain the number of women who have abortions? In order to have an abortion, the woman must be pregnant. And if she's having an abortion, she's obviously not against abortion.

[aj22one]

Then how do you explain the number of women who have abortions? In order to have an abortion, the woman must be pregnant. And if she's having an abortion, she's obviously not against abortion.

 

To be fair, he did say "most women". Which could be 90% or 50.5%. That would still leave room for plenty of abortions.