t0ri Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I've been with my boyfriend for over two years, and feel like he may be emotionally/verbally abusing me. He's extremely manipulative, in my eyes, also. I'm not exactly sure, though, if that is what is going on, or really what else it could be. I keep hoping he'll realize what he's doing, and stop blaming me for everything, but it hasn't happened yet. Do abusers of this kind KNOW they are abusing? They are aware and doing it for some sort of purpose? Also, what are some personal experiences anyone has had with this? I feel very confused
USMCHokie Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Do abusers of this kind KNOW they are abusing? They are aware and doing it for some sort of purpose? I think the better question is, do the abusees know that they are being abused and have the balls to do something about it, i.e., leave...? 1
Ninjainpajamas Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I'll give you ten things abusers do and you figure it out from then; 1) Always blame you for causing them to get angry or cause them to abuse you 2) It's always makes everything about them and how they feel, but can't relate to how you feel 3) Always make it out like you were the instigator...and make you feel like less of a person 4) Don't realize/or accept the fact that what they do hurts you, they see it as you overreacting 5) Always have a way of turning something around back on you 6) Don't accept responsibility for their actions 7) Don't typically admit fault, unless absolutely necessary 8) Have a control and impact on you that you know you are being taken advantage of or used but they say they aren't 9) You don't feel respected, or what you say has any bearing on the situation 10) Always plays the victim He's not going to wake up one day and realize what he's doing because he's so conditioned to it being normal that it doesn't even stand out. It stands out to you because you are normal, while in his world you should tolerate some kind of abuse. He won't change what he doesn't recognize, you'd have to spend an entire day of everyday explaining how what he does makes you feel, and If he doesn't try to turn it back on you and actually listens it'll be another 10 light years before he actually admits fault and practice changing old habits. He has to want to do this and furthermore even with the want It would take a complete retraining of the mind and what he is used to. He's probably not intelligent or insightful enough to accomplish this I'm afraid, nor determined...after all there's nothing wrong with him, just you. You'll be in this kind of a relationship until the very end, It might get better If one day he decides he did something that makes him recognize he does actually have a problem...however that's unlikely to change. So sorry to say, but this will be your relationship...for life, nothing you can do or say will change him...even If you leave, I'm sure he'll promise he'll change If you come back..but he'll fail and round and round you go. You have to accept that this is either worth the trade for his "love"...or move on...It'll be easier than resisting and "hoping" one day a magic unicorn will come out of the sky, pick him up, take him into the clouds and bring him back down a much more patient and understanding/respectful man. 2
Star Gazer Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Do abusers of this kind KNOW they are abusing? They are aware and doing it for some sort of purpose? I think some do, yes. Others are just self-absorbed to the point of not caring or recognizing how they affect others. 1
tigressA Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) I think the better question is, do the abusees know that they are being abused and have the balls to do something about it, i.e., leave...? I agree...it's not your responsibility to try to understand why the abuser does what they do or if they are aware. In fact, this line of questioning is something abusers use as a tool--they will manipulate you into thinking that you make them mistreat you. You need to take care of yourself and get out if you feel you are being mistreated. I was in an emotionally abusive/manipulative relationship. I felt like I could do nothing right, I was never good enough. Every conflict we had was my fault. I was constantly berated as selfish and immature. He was very distant and didn't treat me or my time with respect. After a handful of months I had had enough and dumped him. Edited February 27, 2012 by tigressA
Tybalt Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 This isn't the question you should focus upon, because what you're essentially hoping for is that he can understand, and thus realize the error of his ways and change. NinjaInPajamas has a great deal of insight and you should take his post to heart. I have been a magnet for these types, these narcissistic, emotionally abusive men who slowly but systematically leave me to a state of self doubt, of lowered self esteem, and confusion over what is real. The ability of an emotionally abusive partner to turn it all around to being your fault for all the issues and problems is amazing, and not in a good way. For years I thought, "If I can only say the right words, and he sees how he hurts me, he will finally love me the way I want to be loved." It never happened. The solution, the only solution, was to stand up for myself and recognize that trying to please this type of man was hobbling me, robbing me of my autonomy, my feelings of value, my belief in myself. I wasted too much time in emotional turmoil and bewilderment, wondering what I could do to make things better. Then I discovered what would make it better. I left, and promised myself never again. I've made a commitment to myself to be as loving toward myself as I have been toward those who didn't deserve it. I decided to care for myself, appreciate the wonderful friends and family around me, laugh more, create more, revel in my dreams and hopes. Now, I look back at what I accepted and I'm saddened by it. Now, I will happily stay single rather than accept so little. It hasn't been an easy road to get here, but believe me... Biting the bullet and walking away from these destructive dynamics has resulted in much greater peace and satisfaction. All that pain is past and I invite no more into my world. I believe love will come and when it does, it will be the wonderful kind, not the tortuous type.
somedude81 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Why would anybody want to be in a relationship with somebody who doesn't make you feel better about yourself? Having to deal with the opposite just seems pointless. 1
Star Gazer Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Why would anybody want to be in a relationship with somebody who doesn't make you feel better about yourself? Having to deal with the opposite just seems pointless. What an astute observation.
oldguy Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 He will not wake up one morning and suddenly be your Prince Charming if that's what your asking. People do what works for them & if his behavior is working, that is; if it has benefits & no consequences why would you think it would change. If the guy is a D-Bag leave, if you want him to change take a proactive role in how you allow yourself to be treated. Otherwise even if you do leave you will most likely walk right back into the same relationship with someone else. Just curious; did dad treat mom badly too or you? This potentially could be as much a learned behavior of yours as it is of your bf's.
somedude81 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 What an astute observation. I can't tell if that's sarcasm or not. Either way, what I said just seems like common sense to me.
Tybalt Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 SD, that's right, but it's a perfect example of why "simple logic" doesn't always translate to "easy." We are all an amalgam of our formative experiences, later learning, emotional intelligence, and basic personality/psychological types. Why can't we all just "get it" and end up with a happy and healthy relationship right out of the gate? That's what we question, analyze, and attempt to address, at least those of us who've struggled with it at any point. My feeling is that if we lack success in relationship areas, we need to understand ourselves better and come to a place where the lack of success is uncomfortable enough to produce a change, a breaking of the ongoing pattern. Again, it may seem simple, but I don't think it's always easy.
oldguy Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) The problem for most of us is that we are creatures of habit. Even when we openly reject something we will often fall back on it, especially in times of stress or turmoil because it is a learned comfort zone. Example; dad treats mom bad, daughter grows up believing this is acceptable behavior maybe & then attracting guys who disrespect her by simply not weeding the out. The son, on the other hand might grow up hating the way dad treats mom & vowing to be different but in times of stress or insecurity he resorts back to learned behavior not acceptable behavior. Sometimes we just get what we allow. For instance; if I where an emotionally abusive person my wife simply would NOT tolerate it & I wouldn't be married to someone who would. Edited February 27, 2012 by oldguy
Buttercup84 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Hun , PM me if you need to talk .My ex was emotionally abusive so maybe I can help x
Buttercup84 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 It is not that easy to just leave when someone is abusive . Emotional abusve is the worst form of abuse . My ex was the perfect boyfriend when we met , always wanted me around , did romantic things , was proud to be seen with me and he was just " perfect " . It is not like he was an arsehole from the start . He slowly , bit by bit broke me down . I used to think women who stayed with abusers were pathetic and weak . My ex called me horrible names , I trod on eggshells around him and he had a bad temper towards other people too . I did want to leave him so many times . Especially when he called me a Fcking retard for misunderstanding him My self-esteem was so low I was afraid of leaving him because I knew he wouldn't try and get me back . I could go on and on what he did to me but I am healing. It took me 8 months after he dumped me over email to see what a ****ed up person he is . 1) Always blame you for causing them to get angry or cause them to abuse you 2) It's always makes everything about them and how they feel, but can't relate to how you feel 3) Always make it out like you were the instigator...and make you feel like less of a person 4) Don't realize/or accept the fact that what they do hurts you, they see it as you overreacting 5) Always have a way of turning something around back on you 6) Don't accept responsibility for their actions 7) Don't typically admit fault, unless absolutely necessary 8) Have a control and impact on you that you know you are being taken advantage of or used but they say they aren't 9) You don't feel respected, or what you say has any bearing on the situation 10) Always plays the victim Yes to all
petal28 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 i like this website: Emotional Abusers- Heartless Bitches International
Author t0ri Posted February 28, 2012 Author Posted February 28, 2012 He does do everything on Ninjainpajamas list. I'm currently living with my mother, as I finish up my last year of my degree pursuit. Four months ago, my bf suddenly and tragically lost his roommate, and our good friend. He couldn't afford their place on his own, so ultimately moved in with my mom and I, as my mom offered, and it was his last and only resort. Since he moved in, all of this "abuse" has really began. I don't understand why that would trigger it? My parents divorced when I was four, so I didn't see any relationships growing up of how one "should" or "shouldn't" be treated and treat others. But I'm wise enough to see that what he's doing is unacceptable. His father treated his mother very poorly, and they divorced when he was about 10.
Author t0ri Posted March 4, 2012 Author Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) A good friend of mine, whom I haven't seen in a year, invited me to have dinner/drinks tonight. We invited two other friends, and we each invited our boyfriend's. My bf was at work when I talked these plans over with my friend, so I text him and let him know what my plans were and invited him to come. (Yesterday, he had told me he'd want to hang out with this particular friend and meet her boyfriend, so I figured he'd be willing to tonight since the opportunity arose.) He said he didn't really want to. When he got home from work, he was seemingly annoyed. He told me he was mad that I made plans for myself without consulting him first, basically. (He does this to me A LOT - hypocrit.) I asked him to come several more times, and he fought with me that I would be going whether he did or not. He said he didn't want to hang out with my friends because one is gay, and he doesn't really know the others (because he hasn't given them a chance), and that he "wanted to go when HE wanted to go," and I was leaving an hour from when he got home. He asked if I would be mad if he went and did something else, and I said no. Well, I ended up leaving without him. He text me while I was out saying he was SOO mad at me, for said reasons. We texted throughout the night, and at one point he was mad I didn't text back for an hour (all I was doing was sitting, chatting, and having a cape cod, just didn't look at my phone every second), and at another point he said he wished he had came and wished I had been more patient with him. I told him to just come meet us and we could move on from the fight and have a good time. He didn't come. Instead, he went bowling with a friend. I was home by midnight, and he came home at 2am. He was/is seemingly drunk. He immediately started bickering at me about going out "on the weekend" whether he was going or not (this was a RARE occurance). I told him he could've gotten over his stubborn-ness and just came and enjoyed the night with me. He kept prying at me, trying to make me upset or fight with me, over everything. The following are things he said to me within the 15 minutes from when he got home: -I'm the rudest girlfriend ever -I'm crazy -He hopes he forgets me tomorrow -I'm stupid -Dating me is like "dating a little girl" -Told me repeatedly to grow up and that I'm immature -Everything is my fault, in so many words -I'm disgusting -F'in B**** -Selfish Mother F'er I calmly proceeded to move to another room. He followed me a few minutes later and was asking what he did tonight that was so wrong, since he could tell I was upset. I told him that it should be so blatantly obvious, I shouldn't have to repeat it. I don't know whether he had forgotten already because he's (seemingly) drunk, or because he sees nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't tell him what he said, as I've been through his drunkenness before, and there's no point in talking to a wall. So he got pissed and went on to tell me: -"We're never going to work." -"This is the stupidest relationship ever." -"You're the stupidest B**** ever." He then walked out of the room, and I locked the door. He comes back 10 or so minutes later and starts knocking on the door, somehow gets it open, and asks what the F I'm doing, then gives me the finger and says "F you" and walks out again, because he heard my mom wake up because he was being so loud. This is ridiculous. All of this because I, harmlessly, went out with 3 friend's and one of their boyfriend's, to which he was invited to! He literally made me feel, for a minute, that I was in the wrong. Can someone verify for me that I did NOTHING wrong?! I didn't even call him a single mean thing or get angry with him. I'm going to have to ask him to move out. I know I don't deserve this crap. He has nowhere to go right now. So do I make him get his stuff and get out right away, anyway? Or give him a time frame of when he needs to be out by? Edited March 4, 2012 by t0ri
Ninjainpajamas Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 (edited) Sorry that you're going through this, I know how difficult it can be and just plain nonsense. First of all you need to understand that what you see and your bf sees are two completely different things. From his perspective he doesn't ever think he's overreacting or being unreasonable. He feels justified in every single action that he takes, regardless of whether he contradicts himself or not...you will not be able to win, as soon as you try throwing back something in his face that he did something wrong he'll just spin the situation and make it like It was ok for him to do it for X and X reason and you did it wrong because the circumstances or whatever was different. The point being is don't try and wrap your head around it, it's not going to do you any good but frustrate you and you're just going to become more upset. You're apart of his world when you are arguing with him, he controls it and dictates the rules...you just live in it. You opinion or defense is never as good as his or never makes any sense compared to what he's saying, that's the way the game is designed, so there's nothing you can do to win or prove a point. The only thing you can do is really video tape him one day and show him how he is acting, and show him how ridiculous and how much sense he is not making, otherwise he's not going to see it, he has tunnel vision and once he gets a chip on his shoulder about something (which is always) he's going to go on the offensive and won't be happy until there's a fight...a fight that he has to win or at least get in the last word. These are things that he learned from growing up, he likely grew up in a destructive household where this is how he was treated and likely there was a lot of abuse of some kind. Likely verbal, possibly more. He's also going to be very controlling, and expect you to have extreme patience and also demand a lot of your attention. He wants to fight with you and make a big deal out of everything he just wants it to look like it's your fault not his. He believes he's easy to understand and doesn't start fights and It's you bringing in all the drama into his world. That's why he follows you and continues to fight with you, especially when you walk away, he needs you to go back and forth, or mainly him talking crap to you until he feels he's proven his point. You can actually print this out and leave it on his desk or something somewhere, he might actually read it. He really doesn't see how far he's pushed with you and your mother. But I can assure you If he has any brain capacity whatsoever he can see what he's doing and If he looks into his history he likely has done this with every single person, even though he'll try and claim he never had the same problems with this person or that, he'll use examples that make him feel he is right, the problem is he just doesn't see the reality of how he is and how he treats people, to him It's ok. There's nothing wrong that you did, but these actions provoke a guy like this very easily. Your "defiance" gets under his skin, your lack of willingness to bend around his every word is like a personal attack to him. He's also not going not to like going into situations he's not in control of and doesn't know people very well, because then he has to deal with whatever happens, that's why he didn't go, that's too much of a vulnerable feeling for him. He could have also been less stubborn but his pride and making a point was more important to him. He can't get over something unless he vents out his frustration and disappointment first and likely will ruin the occassion if you let him. Which he will be very persistent until he does. My advice is to set a time limit for him to move out, and for him to find a place of his own. And that as long as he lives here he needs to respect you and your mother, hold his tongue and just work and mind his own business that you don't want any trouble or he's going to have to move out early, because this is not a situation that is going to work for you, you're not going to tolerate his behavior or his accusations, If those are his real opinions or whether he says that in the moment is not acceptable. And you really need to stand by this, the funny thing is he likely responds more to aggressive tone of voice than you being civil and understanding. So just remain confident and stern when you speak your mind and don't budge or back down, tell him how it is, those are the rules or the way its going to be so he needs to deal with it. He will likely try and suck you back in and apologize for his actions, it's up to you whether you want to give him time to change or make a real effort but honestly this is engrained into his behavioral patterns so deeply that he'd likely need counseling or a serious self-reflection and your assistance and extreme patience in working with him and constantly pointing out his bad behavior...rewiring what he thinks is ok and not ok, and setting new boundaries. Bottom line though, don't accept it, and don't play by his rules, always stand your ground and that doesn't mean arguing with him. His weakness is loss of control, without control he has no power, he controls you use his abuse. It's like not needing a fence to keep your kids in the yard because they are too scared to ever go that far because of the feared consequences, they keep you in a bubble, and it changes and confuses you and what you think is wrong and right. Edited March 4, 2012 by Ninjainpajamas 3
denise_xo Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 A good friend of mine, whom I haven't seen in a year, invited me to have dinner/drinks tonight. We invited two other friends, and we each invited our boyfriend's. My bf was at work when I talked these plans over with my friend, so I text him and let him know what my plans were and invited him to come. (Yesterday, he had told me he'd want to hang out with this particular friend and meet her boyfriend, so I figured he'd be willing to tonight since the opportunity arose.) He said he didn't really want to. When he got home from work, he was seemingly annoyed. He told me he was mad that I made plans for myself without consulting him first, basically. (He does this to me A LOT - hypocrit.) I asked him to come several more times, and he fought with me that I would be going whether he did or not. He said he didn't want to hang out with my friends because one is gay, and he doesn't really know the others (because he hasn't given them a chance), and that he "wanted to go when HE wanted to go," and I was leaving an hour from when he got home. He asked if I would be mad if he went and did something else, and I said no. Well, I ended up leaving without him. He text me while I was out saying he was SOO mad at me, for said reasons. We texted throughout the night, and at one point he was mad I didn't text back for an hour (all I was doing was sitting, chatting, and having a cape cod, just didn't look at my phone every second), and at another point he said he wished he had came and wished I had been more patient with him. I told him to just come meet us and we could move on from the fight and have a good time. He didn't come. Instead, he went bowling with a friend. I was home by midnight, and he came home at 2am. He was/is seemingly drunk. He immediately started bickering at me about going out "on the weekend" whether he was going or not (this was a RARE occurance). I told him he could've gotten over his stubborn-ness and just came and enjoyed the night with me. He kept prying at me, trying to make me upset or fight with me, over everything. The following are things he said to me within the 15 minutes from when he got home: -I'm the rudest girlfriend ever -I'm crazy -He hopes he forgets me tomorrow -I'm stupid -Dating me is like "dating a little girl" -Told me repeatedly to grow up and that I'm immature -Everything is my fault, in so many words -I'm disgusting -F'in B**** -Selfish Mother F'er I calmly proceeded to move to another room. He followed me a few minutes later and was asking what he did tonight that was so wrong, since he could tell I was upset. I told him that it should be so blatantly obvious, I shouldn't have to repeat it. I don't know whether he had forgotten already because he's (seemingly) drunk, or because he sees nothing wrong with it. I wouldn't tell him what he said, as I've been through his drunkenness before, and there's no point in talking to a wall. So he got pissed and went on to tell me: -"We're never going to work." -"This is the stupidest relationship ever." -"You're the stupidest B**** ever." He then walked out of the room, and I locked the door. He comes back 10 or so minutes later and starts knocking on the door, somehow gets it open, and asks what the F I'm doing, then gives me the finger and says "F you" and walks out again, because he heard my mom wake up because he was being so loud. This is ridiculous. All of this because I, harmlessly, went out with 3 friend's and one of their boyfriend's, to which he was invited to! He literally made me feel, for a minute, that I was in the wrong. Can someone verify for me that I did NOTHING wrong?! I didn't even call him a single mean thing or get angry with him. I'm going to have to ask him to move out. I know I don't deserve this crap. He has nowhere to go right now. So do I make him get his stuff and get out right away, anyway? Or give him a time frame of when he needs to be out by? This is clearly just a whole load of crap. Pack his bags and ask him to leave straight away. You are under no obligation whatsoever to provide accommodation to an abuser. I'm sure he can crash on a friend's couch. I would NOT give him any additional time.
gaius Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 Since he moved in, all of this "abuse" has really began. I don't understand why that would trigger it? He's a completely normal, proud man who doesn't want to rely on his girlfriend in anyway financially. He might accept your help but will resent you for giving it. It's just how men are. Get him out of your house already, it's what he really wants. The sooner the better. If he lived with a roommate before he's capable of doing it again.
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 Lol Listen honey, if you're "not sure" that you're being emotionally abused then you aren't. Telling you that you're being an idiot when you're acting Luke an idiot isn't emotionally abusing you...it's called being honest. She's not your "honey" nor is she acting like an idiot. 2
Mme. Chaucer Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 He's a completely normal, proud man who doesn't want to rely on his girlfriend in anyway financially. He might accept your help but will resent you for giving it. It's just how men are. Being a normal proud man doesn't include calling his girlfriend stupid, disgusting, a bitch, etc. Whether he feels okay or horrible about living with her and her mom, this behavior is unacceptable and it IS abusive. It's not "just how men are." Good men can deal with hurt pride without lashing out at others. 4
denise_xo Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 Being a normal proud man doesn't include calling his girlfriend stupid, disgusting, a bitch, etc. Whether he feels okay or horrible about living with her and her mom, this behavior is unacceptable and it IS abusive. It's not "just how men are." Good men can deal with hurt pride without lashing out at others. Agreed. I found that sentiment pretty shocking. My H relied on me financially for years. It would NEVER occur to him to use such words towards me.
carhill Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 If I were mom I'd ask him nicely, once, to GTFO, then he'd get the .45 in the nuts. 5
salparadise Posted March 4, 2012 Posted March 4, 2012 He has nowhere to go right now. So do I make him get his stuff and get out right away, anyway? Or give him a time frame of when he needs to be out by? I agree with others, that you'll not be able to salvage this. It's a toxic relationship and you're correct in understanding the need to terminate it immediately. However, I would suggest that you take the high road and do it in a way that you, as a compassionate and understanding person, won't regret. The abusive stems from his deficits and weaknesses. You have to get free of it but you don't have to punish or seek retribution. Putting him out with literally no place to go would be doing that. Tell him you're done but give him a short and definite time frame that will allow him to make some sort of arrangements and gather his stuff. I'm thinking a few days. You want to be able to feel that you did right by him, even under adverse circumstances.
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