Chubbi Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I'm not talking about the abortion clinic staff. I'm talking about guys/girls who in their past had to get an abortion or let their partner get an abortion. (Not in rape contexts) I mean in, oh i didn't use a condom context. Why don't people ask this question along with sexual history, STDs? Isn't if someone got an abortion also affect their beliefs? I feel like Plan B is okay, but an full out abortion? Even though I am liberal and a strong supporter of women movements, I can't help but judge women and their male partners who got abortions. I feel like they are very loose and playing dangerous, sad games.
CarrieInNYC Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Last time I checked, men didn't have a say in whether a woman got an abortion or not. 3
Star Gazer Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I have no interest in knowing whether a guy I'm dating knocked up a gal and she got an abortion, other than perhaps knowing how many said girls he got pregnant from unprotected sex (STDs would be a concern, as would perhaps the fact that he's damn fertile and I gotta be careful!). A woman's free to do with her body as she chooses, although I admit I frown upon women who use it as a form of birth control when they're knowingly irresponsible about preventing it. I feel like Plan B is okay, but an full out abortion? I feel like they are very loose and playing dangerous, sad games. Plan B isn't an abortion pill, it prevents pregnancy to begin with. It is taken when there is a failure in birth control or you don't use it to begin with. But how is using Plan B any different in your mind from an abortion, given that you think someone who's a part of a pair involved in getting an abortion is "loose and playing dangerous, sad games"? 3
Ruby Slippers Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 It's really none of my business. One of my exes told me his ex got pregnant while taking BC pills, and he was hoping she'd have an abortion, because their relationship had a lot of problems and he didn't want to have a child with her. She did, and that was that. I didn't judge him or her for this. It's not an ideal situation, but accidents happen and people aren't perfect. 2
somedude81 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Why don't people ask this question along with sexual history, STDs? Isn't if someone got an abortion also affect their beliefs? I'd never ask a girl if she had an abortion. Mainly because I don't care either way. If she did, it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. 'm talking about guys/girls who in their past had to get an abortion or let their partner get an abortion. Let their partner get an abortion? That's an odd statement to make. Would you really judge a guy who "let" his GF get an abortion?
Author Chubbi Posted February 27, 2012 Author Posted February 27, 2012 Last time I checked, men didn't have a say in whether a woman got an abortion or not. This is true. I tend to hold men responsible though because about 80% of the time, they are the culprits. I have to admit in my heart of hearts I do believe men in general, not all of them, but men as a species are just more evil than women are, and tend to be the masterminds and then wiggle their way out of responsibility by some type of assumptions they call logic and science. In these situations, women tend to be very young or trying desperately to please and the men are taking advantage of them with falsities and then allowing the blame to fall on their shoulders.
somedude81 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 This is true. I tend to hold men responsible though because about 80% of the time, they are the culprits. I have to admit in my heart of hearts I do believe men in general, not all of them, but men as a species are just more evil than women are, and tend to be the masterminds and then wiggle their way out of responsibility by some type of assumptions they call logic and science. In these situations, women tend to be very young or trying desperately to please and the men are taking advantage of them with falsities and then allowing the blame to fall on their shoulders. Mwa ha ha ha ha! :lmao:
allina Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 This is true. I tend to hold men responsible though because about 80% of the time, they are the culprits. I have to admit in my heart of hearts I do believe men in general, not all of them, but men as a species are just more evil than women are, and tend to be the masterminds and then wiggle their way out of responsibility by some type of assumptions they call logic and science. In these situations, women tend to be very young or trying desperately to please and the men are taking advantage of them with falsities and then allowing the blame to fall on their shoulders. WTF?? I'm judging you for being ignorant/naive more than I would judge a man for "letting" a woman have an abortion
kaylan Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Yes I would date such a person. Im pro choice myself, so why wouldnt I date them? 3
Author Chubbi Posted February 27, 2012 Author Posted February 27, 2012 WTF?? I'm judging you for being ignorant/naive more than I would judge a man for "letting" a woman have an abortion So, I'm the one that's ignorant? I volunteer at family law pro bono clinic. What is your basis for telling me I'm the ignorant one? What clients do you expect to get a a clinic like that? I get women telling me everyday, 1) he told me he didn't want to wear a condom 2) he told me he would pull out and that would be fine 3) he told me if I loved him I wouldn't do this for him 3) he keeps pressuring me to get rid of the baby and so on and so forth. I have NEVER, even though I am sure there are cases, but much rarer, heard a woman con a man into having unprotected sex with her. It is much more frequent to hear a woman talk about how a man cut holes in the condom when he had sex. It's much more frequent for men to fuss about not wanting to wear a condom. So where do you get off? Show me the stats if you want. I am pretty sure statistics are on my side!
kaylan Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Also, If someone was pro-life and felt pro-choice attitudes were a deal breaker, then Im cool with that.
CarrieInNYC Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Personally I'm pro life. I've never been pregnant, so thankfully I've never had to figure out what I would do. When I say that men don't have a say, I'm not saying that to "blame" woman and absolve men. I'm just saying... men don't have a say, period. If I found out a guy I was dating threatened and harassed a reluctant woman into having an abortion, I'd dump him because that's an obnoxious jerk thing to do that indicates to me he is not a supportive partner in difficult times. On the other hand, if I found out a guy tried to prevent a woman who wanted to have an abortion from having one through any means other than expressing an opinion that he wished she would not, I'd dump him for the same reason I'd dump the first guy. Any guy who has ever had unprotected sex has run the risk of becoming a father. The ultimate outcome of that decision is out of his hands, so it's unclear to me how I should judge him for it. (Not that I'm in favor of judging women--I just personally don't date women, so that part of the initial question had no relevance to me).
kaylan Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 This is true. I tend to hold men responsible though because about 80% of the time, they are the culprits. I have to admit in my heart of hearts I do believe men in general, not all of them, but men as a species are just more evil than women are, and tend to be the masterminds and then wiggle their way out of responsibility by some type of assumptions they call logic and science. In these situations, women tend to be very young or trying desperately to please and the men are taking advantage of them with falsities and then allowing the blame to fall on their shoulders. ??? Men arent forcing women to have abortions.
somedude81 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 It is much more frequent to hear a woman talk about how a man cut holes in the condom when he had sex. LOL wut?! If he wanted to get the girl pregnant, why wear a condom in the first place? I have NEVER, even though I am sure there are cases, but much rarer, heard a woman con a man into having unprotected sex with her. You've seriously never heard of that?
Author Chubbi Posted February 27, 2012 Author Posted February 27, 2012 I admit I can be a little rash in my opinions sometimes. I take it back that men are more evil. The truth is men are more powerful in terms of social, economic landscape today, and power corrupts. As more and more women become sources of money, however, maybe we see power corrode women's morals equally as men. We can see that when women did hold positions of authority in the past, they tended to collude with the status quo themselves, Marie Antoinette, or were just as cruel in its application: for example, prostitution female matrons. So anyway, sorry.
FrustratedStandards Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I couldn't care less. I think abortion is a good thing. Countries where abortion is prohibited or frowned upon have really high rates of poverty, because people have babies all over the grid, and they aren't ready, don't care or can't afford. I think if people have children, they should have them because they want to, not because they don't have a choice.
FrustratedStandards Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) I get women telling me everyday, 1) he told me he didn't want to wear a condom 2) he told me he would pull out and that would be fine 3) he told me if I loved him I wouldn't do this for him 3) he keeps pressuring me to get rid of the baby and so on and so forth. I have NEVER, even though I am sure there are cases, but much rarer, heard a woman con a man into having unprotected sex with her. It is much more frequent to hear a woman talk about how a man cut holes in the condom when he had sex. It's much more frequent for men to fuss about not wanting to wear a condom. These women are idiots. And yes, in those cases it would be their fault. And you're right, abortion shouldn't be used as a form of birth control, only as a last case scenario, agreed. And are you kidding me? Women do it all the time. "I'm on birth control baby its okay". Next thing you know she's pregnant, wants to keep it and the man has no choice but to either bail or marry her and pay child support when the relationship doesn't work out. Believe me, men want kids much less than women. It's usually the woman who does the trapping. I think you've got it twisted. But nevertheless, the women at your clinic are only harming themselves and their bodies. I think you should redirect your question. I think you mean women who are careless about pregnancy, not abortion itself. You have a strong connotation about abortion and it's not accurate. Edited February 27, 2012 by FrustratedStandards
oldguy Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 (edited) I think it's a perfectly legitimate question especially when the relationship is getting serious and especially if someone is pro life. I also think it's a serious SO's right to know about any live births adopted or just out there children, ex marriages or SO's who are linked financially as in co-owning property as well as a whole host of things a potential serious mate has the right to know. As it being a deal breaker or not, that goes to comfort level. If someone is NOT comfortable with the moral choices their potential long term partner has made that is something best known before getting involved in a long term relationship. And people have a right to feel uncomfortable. As I've mentioned before; I think it comes down to a credit or credibility history, and a partner feeling comfortable with choices made by their potential SO, how often & how far in ones past is important as well. I now of few women who have had an abortion & not felt long term emotional effects from it. To paraphrase an old movie line; maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow but one day & forever, it's something that's with them. So the whens & whys and present attitudes are equally important to know. And of the men it's valid to know about women they have been with who have had abortions and the whens & whys and their attitudes about it are equally as important. It's amazing how many people are willing to enter blindly into long term relationships because they don't think knowing someone is any of their business. Most of us wouldn't buy a used car or house without some fact checking but we will get into a long term relationships and close our eyes & sleep in the same bed with someone we are afraid to ask questions of or know. It just seems ridiculousness to me. Oh & when we do find out some supposed dark secret 5 or 10 years in we act as if we've been betrayed. Yes; you have the right to know &if the answer bothers you that is alright too, you have the right to be picky about the person you sleep with or more importantly; let into your life. If we really got to know the person before we married them just maybe there would not be quite as many divorces. "Oh if he's a pedophile that's his past & none of my business". "oh but I don't want to be judgmental", no but it's alright to be in a relationship with someone who is morally incomparable or even objectionable? WTH!? Grow up or grow something at least. You know the only things we don't generally brag about in the first few dates are the things we are ashamed of anyway. Edited February 27, 2012 by oldguy
zengirl Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Well, men haven't really a say, so I've never thought about it. I'm with Carrie, in that I would find fault with any man who was not supportive of the woman in question and her choice, whatever it was. I also think someone who regularly doesn't take proper precautions is in fault, though the timing would matter. Someone who had such an accidental pregnancy in HS would be someone I saw very differently than as an adult, etc. And someone who just got unlucky but truly took/takes precautions would be someone I saw differently than someone who refused to use condoms, etc.
EasyHeart Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I've dated women who had abortions and I'd have no problem dating one in the future. I'm sure I've probably dated women who had abortions that I didn't know about. It's not something that usually comes up until we're serious, and of course it's certainly possible that women could lie about it. But it really makes no difference to me, except that sharing personal stories like that tends to build trust and intimacy. Women always ask me if I have any kids, and "Have you ever gotten anyone pregnant?" is fairly common. I don't mind answering except that it brings up a long, personal story that I typically don't care to share early on, but it's a legitimate question. I do notice that women who ask "Have you ever gotten anyone pregnant?" (as opposed to "Do you have any kids?") early in dating tend to do it in an accusatory tone of voice, like they're trying to get me to admit to a crime or catch me in a lie. It's odd. I don't know what it means, it's just a curious observation.
veggirl Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 WTF Chubbi? You are "very liberal" and a "strong supporter" of womens rights, you apparently work with poor, uneducated, single women who get pregant... yet you think women who've had an abortion are "sad and loose" :confused: Are you for real? Anyway. Yes, I'd absolutely date someone who'd had a partner who had an abortion. I would never ask, though, and be shocked if I was asked that about myself.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Personally I'm pro life. I've never been pregnant, so thankfully I've never had to figure out what I would do. When I say that men don't have a say, I'm not saying that to "blame" woman and absolve men. I'm just saying... men don't have a say, period. Any guy who has ever had unprotected sex has run the risk of becoming a father. The ultimate outcome of that decision is out of his hands, so it's unclear to me how I should judge him for it. Why doesn't the guy have any say? Is the baby not his as well? Men deserve the choice too.
zengirl Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Why doesn't the guy have any say? Is the baby not his as well? Men deserve the choice too. Develop a technology that lets him carry it in HIS body or even just gets it out of hers, and I'm down with that. Until someone does, it's wrong to use a woman as an incubator. It's her body, thus her choice. 1
Author Chubbi Posted February 27, 2012 Author Posted February 27, 2012 WTF Chubbi? You are "very liberal" and a "strong supporter" of womens rights, you apparently work with poor, uneducated, single women who get pregant... yet you think women who've had an abortion are "sad and loose" :confused: Are you for real? I don't see how that is contradictory. I do not believe I am Republican/conservative at all, but that does not mean I don't hold people accountable for their actions or judge them based on their actions. I do not believe abortion is a moral choice, it should be a last, last minute option for most women. For example, even though I can work with juvenile delinquents does not mean I won't also think they have some missing character attributes: maturity, forethought, foresight, discipline, high self-esteem. Anyway, I don't think I will ask either.
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