Author J322Y Posted February 26, 2012 Author Posted February 26, 2012 I can't speak for other women, but for me, sex is a defining moment because I get more emotionally attached to my partner after we have sex. It's the most intimate thing I could do with another person and it puts me in a very vulnerable position. I don't have sex with a man unless I have very strong feelings for him and care deeply about him. I need to know that he feels the same way about me. My situation may be different because I'm much younger than you, but that's why sex is so important to me. It could never be a casual thing for me, it's way too personal and intimate. I need to be in a committed, exclusive relationship before I even think about having sex with the guy (like, several months before). I don't do the whole "we just had sex, so now we're in a committed relationship" thing. To me, that's backwards. If the man is still dating other women and exploring his options, that's fine, but there's no way in hell I'd have sex with him while he's doing that. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I think I'm a very idealistic person but in a different way than you are. I am not a "casual" person, I'm intense about a lot of things. If I could change the world I would make politics, religion, etc., the defining issues for commitment, not sex. I understand feeling vulnerable during sex, but aren't you also vulnerable when sharing your political/religious views? Sex can be viewed as a simple act really, and social issues can be very complicated. What I'm trying to say is that I am looking for, or at least open to, my ultimate mate, but I would prefer to take away some of the pressure we put on the act of having sex. It's easy for me to connect with women on a sexual level and it's challenging for me to connect on other levels such as politics, etc.
Author J322Y Posted February 26, 2012 Author Posted February 26, 2012 IMO, as long as you're transparent about the process and your partner clearly understands your perspective and finds synergy with it, then it is what it is. If it works out, that. If not, that. By the time we get to our 50's, we should be able to communicate and handle such aspects of interpersonal relations. A like-minded (based on your description of past experiences) women will also be examining her options and perhaps having sex with other men. Again, transparency is the key. You're comfortable with that, yes? By 'that', I mean a woman exercising the same prerogatives you appear to espouse. She, too, may not be 'ready' or thinks she might not be, and wants to experience other men before committing. Communication is key. I think jealousy is a term that needs to be mentioned at this time. I think it's at the root of so many relationship issues. I would be uncomfortable with the women in question having sex with others, but I would prefer to be above that. "Sex = commitment" is commonly true due to jealousy I think. We all experience it, but I'm at a stage in my life when I have an opportunity to rise above that. This is the same thing I dealt with before my last LTR. I have to wonder what type of relationship I could find if I could get past jealousy, my own and others.
carhill Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 If you find yourself to be 'jealous' of an uncommitted sexual partner being polyamorous concurrently with yourself exhibiting similar sexual behaviors and feeling positive about those behaviors, then that is a conundrum you must resolve within yourself. TBH, IMO, if you want to examine the psychology of these nuances in a serious way, engage a professional psychologist to work through them. Perhaps clarity will result in a way which a defined set of boundaries and course of action will result. A 'path', if you will. Know the path, accept the path, walk the path. It's your path. If you happen to meet a like-minded lady on your path, bonus
Author J322Y Posted February 26, 2012 Author Posted February 26, 2012 If you find yourself to be 'jealous' of an uncommitted sexual partner being polyamorous concurrently with yourself exhibiting similar sexual behaviors and feeling positive about those behaviors, then that is a conundrum you must resolve within yourself. TBH, IMO, if you want to examine the psychology of these nuances in a serious way, engage a professional psychologist to work through them. Perhaps clarity will result in a way which a defined set of boundaries and course of action will result. A 'path', if you will. Know the path, accept the path, walk the path. It's your path. If you happen to meet a like-minded lady on your path, bonus I don't have a sexual partner yet, committed or otherwise, I'm just trying to examine my feelings honestly. Yes, I have a conundrum and I'm working on it. I appreciate that you offer yourself as a sounding board. Besides the general philosophical issue, I've got to make a choice regarding a beautiful person who I'm very attracted to. No simple answers.
Cypress25 Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 If I could change the world I would make politics, religion, etc., the defining issues for commitment, not sex. I understand feeling vulnerable during sex, but aren't you also vulnerable when sharing your political/religious views? No, I don't feel very vulnerable when sharing my political/religious views. I don't go around announcing them to everyone, but I discuss them quite freely with friends and casual acquaintances. I don't feel rejected if other people don't agree with my political/religious views. Everyone has their own opinion. Sex is entirely different. If I'm taking off my clothes and sharing my body with someone, it's only because I know him and trust him completely, I feel totally safe with him, I care about him and he cares about me, and our relationship is as serious to him as it is to me. I will never feel as exposed and vulnerable as I do in that moment. Sex can be viewed as a simple act really, and social issues can be very complicated. Maybe to you, sex can be viewed as a simple act. It's not simple to me, thank God. I think that's one of the things that separates humans from other animals. We don't mate indiscriminately. For me, the act of sex comes with a host of physical and emotional risk, and I won't take those risks with just anyone. Since sex causes more intense feelings of attachment for me, I always make sure that any sexual partner I have is a long-term partner. I would prefer to take away some of the pressure we put on the act of having sex. Well, of course you would. Then no-strings-attached sex would be easier to come by, and what man wouldn't want that? Try to understand: Many women put pressure on the act of having sex because they are taking a huge risk by having sex with men who are not committed to them. Personally, I'm not willing to take that risk, so I avoid NSA sex entirely. There's nothing in it for me.
coopster Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Good thread, good question. Gonna get a lot of conflicting answers i reckon. Not going to go back far just to your last post. jealousy. Surely if your `truly` commited to someone and they are to you, you shouldn`t be having feelings of jealousy? If you are commited and you feel `jealous`, then this is the wrong word. A better word would be insecurity? That is more the root of many relationship problems?
Author J322Y Posted February 26, 2012 Author Posted February 26, 2012 No, I don't feel very vulnerable when sharing my political/religious views. I don't go around announcing them to everyone, but I discuss them quite freely with friends and casual acquaintances. I don't feel rejected if other people don't agree with my political/religious views. Everyone has their own opinion. Sex is entirely different. If I'm taking off my clothes and sharing my body with someone, it's only because I know him and trust him completely, I feel totally safe with him, I care about him and he cares about me, and our relationship is as serious to him as it is to me. I will never feel as exposed and vulnerable as I do in that moment. Maybe to you, sex can be viewed as a simple act. It's not simple to me, thank God. I think that's one of the things that separates humans from other animals. We don't mate indiscriminately. For me, the act of sex comes with a host of physical and emotional risk, and I won't take those risks with just anyone. Since sex causes more intense feelings of attachment for me, I always make sure that any sexual partner I have is a long-term partner. Well, of course you would. Then no-strings-attached sex would be easier to come by, and what man wouldn't want that? Try to understand: Many women put pressure on the act of having sex because they are taking a huge risk by having sex with men who are not committed to them. Personally, I'm not willing to take that risk, so I avoid NSA sex entirely. There's nothing in it for me. I see your position as having its own set of complications; You don't take the "risk" of sex until you're sure the man is a LTR, but how can you be sure of that when you haven't experienced that level of intimacy with him yet? I think the bottom line is that none of our methods for taking the risk out of relationship are effective.
Author J322Y Posted February 26, 2012 Author Posted February 26, 2012 Good thread, good question. Gonna get a lot of conflicting answers i reckon. Not going to go back far just to your last post. jealousy. Surely if your `truly` commited to someone and they are to you, you shouldn`t be having feelings of jealousy? If you are commited and you feel `jealous`, then this is the wrong word. A better word would be insecurity? That is more the root of many relationship problems? I'm not committed to anyone yet. Once I'm in a committed relationship I don't have issues with jealousy. It only comes up when I've tried to have "open" relationships.
Cypress25 Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 I see your position as having its own set of complications; You don't take the "risk" of sex until you're sure the man is a LTR, but how can you be sure of that when you haven't experienced that level of intimacy with him yet? How can I be sure of what? I think the bottom line is that none of our methods for taking the risk out of relationship are effective. Actually, my method has been very effective for me. I've never had to deal with the pain of being used for sex because I only have sex with men who are serious about me. Not rushing into sex is the smartest thing I've ever done.
Author J322Y Posted February 26, 2012 Author Posted February 26, 2012 How can I be sure of what? How can you know that a person is right for a LTR when you haven't experienced the intimacy of sex? This isn't in reference to sexual compatibility although that's important to a LTR too, but it's mostly about the fact that you haven't opened up completely to the person prior to making the decision to commit.
coopster Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 How can you know that a person is right for a LTR when you haven't experienced the intimacy of sex? This isn't in reference to sexual compatibility although that's important to a LTR too, but it's mostly about the fact that you haven't opened up completely to the person prior to making the decision to commit. Think you just answered your own question, i.e sex does = commitment
Cypress25 Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 How can you know that a person is right for a LTR when you haven't experienced the intimacy of sex? That's easy. If there is mutual attraction, if I enjoy his company, if we are compatible in terms of personality and sense of humor, if he treats me well, if he demonstrates kindness and compassion to others, if I trust him and feel safe with him, if I enjoy other acts of physical intimacy with him (kissing, foreplay, etc), if he cares about me enough to wait for sex, then he will probably make an excellent partner for a long-term relationship. I don't need to have sex with him to figure that out. Indeed, not having sex with him is a great way to reveal his true feelings. If he really cares about me, he'll wait. I can learn all of the important things about him without having sex with him. it's mostly about the fact that you haven't opened up completely to the person prior to making the decision to commit. Of course not. Why would I open up completely to someone who may or may not commit to me? I can't give everything away for free.
Badsingularity Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Being compatible with someone in terms of interests and having someone just be kind and compassionate for me personally is not enough. I need mind blowing sex and it needs to be the way I like it. .....
Badsingularity Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Sex is an integral part of any relationship. Do you see how many people post in the Marriage forum here about lackluster sex, bad sex, not enough sex, partner not willing to try new things. Sex is the glue that bonds couples together. I actually agree with this statement.
Badsingularity Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Then why did my statement make you ? Many of your posts come off as very shallow. Hilariously so in fact. Even when I happen to agree with what your saying. It's the way you post that makes me laugh. The way you always seem to downplay very important aspects of healthy relationships and give more credence to the shallow things.
Cypress25 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Commitment is not that important to me though. I am not one of those commitment crazed woman who is so desperate to get commitment and be in a serious relationship. Good for you. Then you can continue to sleep with men who see you as nothing more than a vagina. Just the way you like it. Wanting a committed relationship is not the same as being desperate for it. I only want a committed relationship with the right guy. If he's not the right guy, he gets nothing from me. I need mind blowing sex and it needs to be the way I like it. Yeah, me too. And "the way I like it" is within the context of an exclusive relationship with a man who likes me enough to commit to that. I can't have good sex without a strong emotional connection to my partner. It doesn't exist for me. NSA sex is bad sex, that's just the way it is for me. And I like it that way. I see no benefit to having sex with a man who doesn't even like me as a person. There's nothing enjoyable about that.
Woggle Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 How is a woman being used if she wants casual sex is much as the man does? I do think that people should be honest about their intentions before they have sex but I don't buy into the idea that women who have sex without commitment are being used.
Author J322Y Posted February 27, 2012 Author Posted February 27, 2012 I think I've decided how to deal with my situation in a way that is honest and respectful. I'll simply tell anyone I date that I'm not ready to make a commitment at this point in my life. That way I'll be protecting myself from a rebound relationship. The women who choose to date me can decide if they want to be patient and if they can deal with any jealous feelings. I'll have to deal with my own jealous feelings if someone I like is having sex with others, but I just see that as something I need to do to protect myself for now. I do believe that women are conditioned to treat sex as a commodity.
Cypress25 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 How is a woman being used if she wants casual sex is much as the man does? If she wants casual sex as much as the man does, she's not being used. But those women are in the minority. Most women don't actually want casual sex but they settle for it because they think it's the only way to keep a man. Too many women have casual sex, hoping it will lead to a relationship, but it never does. Those women end up devastated and heartbroken. I do believe that women are conditioned to treat sex as a commodity. And I believe that men are conditioned to treat sex as a casual, meaningless act. So which one of us is entitled to our feelings, and which one has been brainwashed into thinking a certain way? Because it sounds like you're saying you think about sex the right way, and women think about sex the wrong way.
Author J322Y Posted February 27, 2012 Author Posted February 27, 2012 If she wants casual sex as much as the man does, she's not being used. But those women are in the minority. Most women don't actually want casual sex but they settle for it because they think it's the only way to keep a man. Too many women have casual sex, hoping it will lead to a relationship, but it never does. Those women end up devastated and heartbroken. I believe you're right in general terms, but we don't get very far citing generalities. And I believe that men are conditioned to treat sex as a casual, meaningless act. So which one of us is entitled to our feelings, and which one has been brainwashed into thinking a certain way? Because it sounds like you're saying you think about sex the right way, and women think about sex the wrong way. I think you're reading too much into my statements. I can only speak for myself; I think sex is a sacred act. I have always treated it as special, even when I was young and had many partners and didn't commit to anyone. What I don't understand is how we take something that is special and determine that it can't be enjoyed with more than one person without degrading another. To define my terms a little; I also consider laughter sacred, and honesty, and other people's property, and respecting others in general.
Cypress25 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 What I don't understand is how we take something that is special and determine that it can't be enjoyed with more than one person without degrading another. You've illustrated the difference between "sex is special" and "sex with you is special." It's nice to find a man who thinks sex is special, but what I really want is a man who thinks I'm special. You should understand that, since you've already expressed your discomfort with open relationships. I think you like the idea of having sex with multiple women, but you know how it feels when those women are not faithful to you. It means you're not special and it hurts. 1
InJest Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 You're in your 50's, wtf are you waiting for? Just pick the one you like the best, and be honest with the other one. You seem like you've been pretty open with them already. You could just tell them that sexual chemistry is very important in a relationship to you, so it's difficult to commit to someone you haven't slept with. You could try waiting them out. Just continue doing everything as you are. Show them the same amount of attention and affection, and don't pressure for sex. Just keep making out with them or whatever you're doing and pushing the passion and intensity, and just don't mention sex. Pretty soon they'll either leave you alone, or sleep with you. The key here is suppressing your frustration, and making them become more and more attached to your personality. I had a similar situation where a girl I was seeing only wanted to have sex with condoms, even though we weren't seeing others. I got annoyed with it, so I didn't buy anymore and when she asked why I hadn't bought more a few days later, I told her I wasn't using them anymore but I liked her enough that I'd wait until she felt comfortable to have sex without them. She lasted a week and a half, before she cracked.
NoMagicBullet Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I think I've decided how to deal with my situation in a way that is honest and respectful. I'll simply tell anyone I date that I'm not ready to make a commitment at this point in my life. That way I'll be protecting myself from a rebound relationship. Are you sure? You've already stated the attraction and compatibility that you have with the two women you're seeing. I'd say you're already in something of a rebound relationship(s). Even without sex, there's still potential for emotional entanglement and hurt feelings. Even without sleeping with you, one or both of these women might be willing to hang around and hope that one day you will be ready for a committed relationship with them. Starting out with with someone new with an understanding of no commitment isn't a guarantee, either, because feelings, needs and desires change over time. By the way, just saying "I'm not ready" is not enough. Actions speak much louder than words, so if you act like you want everything that comes with a committed relationship but say "no" to commitment, that's a huge mixed message. If you're going effectively be in uncommitted relationships, you have to set boundaries on behavior and maybe give up things you would otherwise want: sex is OK but no sleeping over, no favors for each other, weekend getaways by car are OK but no vacations or plane trips -- whatever you and your partner(s) agree on that would show a meaningful difference between being committed versus not. It's rarely as simple as just saying "we're (not) committed" or just not having sex with anyone else. Set and keep clear boundaries, or you're sure to have misunderstandings and misery on your hands -- but to do that you have to know what you want and what you are willing to accept. That in mind, "no sex before a committed, monogamous relationship" is apparently one of the boundaries that these ladies have. They know what they want (a committed relationship) and they don't want to settle for less (sex without commitment). It's pointless to ask why -- it's what they want. You want something different, and it would be just as pointless for them to ask why you don't want what they want. You need to stop seeing them and move on to others whose wants are more in line with your own. I'm among those who agree that you should not be dating. You are emotionally and mentally ripe for a rebound relationship, sexual or not. In fact, it seems like you are searching for exactly that, and are under the impression that it's technically not a rebound relationship if it's not committed or monogamous. Rebounds take a variety of forms, and you aren't doing yourself any favors by jumping into the sack, comittment or not, instead of taking time to process the old relationship and getting readjusted to being single. You can have a life while not dating. Spend more time with your friends, cultivate new ones, take up a new hobby or activity or go back to one you used to do. Don't buy into the idea that you need to have a sexual partner(s) to qualify as a human being. Don't be afraid of spending some time alone and figuring out what you really want in this next stage of your life. 1
FrustratedStandards Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I agree with you. I think it's silly that sex equates to commitment. That's the silliest thing i've ever heard. But you're lucky these women were honest about it, so at least now you know how to handle things. Did you tell them you thought otherwise? 1
2sunny Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 If I'm dating a new guy and I'm liking him and it's new... It would upset me IF he said he committed to the R and to me when he actually wasn't POSITIVELY and TOTALLY into ONLY ME! I think you're trying to say you'll commit to get the sex. IF you have ANY reason to wonder - then WAIT - and wait until you know for sure she's the only one you want to see. In the meantime - IF you just need sex - sheez, you can get that anywhere on any night... Go get it while you're still a free man. Use a condom!
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