norajane Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I try to avoid throwing educational levels out there right away; it just makes for fertile ground for pre-judgments, pre-conceptions, and assumptions. I have completed many years of school but I don't like "drop down" menus on dating sites that force you to disclose your level of education. I have dated men who didn't even finish high school who were smarter, savvier, and sexier than guys I dated with PhDs. I hate getting into that whole "highest level of education completed" game. It makes me really uncomfortable. How is it a game? And why does it make you uncomfortable to identify your education level? Dating profiles are a tool. You don't have to use all the criteria as a filter. You can contact, or accept contact, from anyone regardless of education level if you don't care about that.
zengirl Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Technically, you can usually leave most of those tick boxes blank and just not answer. But the OP wasn't talking about feeling uncomfortable disclosing his info---he was uncomfortable that someone who was comfortable stating facts about themselves stated facts that made him uncomfortable. THAT'S just weird. 2
EasyHeart Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I've never run into anyone in a dating context who "flaunted" her master's (or any other kind of) degree. One thing I have run into (both in dating and other situations) is people who name-drop schools in the same way they do fashion labels or something, like "That's Bob, he went to Columbia. And that's Taylor, she went Harvard." I find that really odd. I have a stack of degrees from some really good schools, but I never mention it unless I'm asked or if it comes up in a conversation that I went to the same school as someone. But women like that also tend to "grade" people by how big their house is and what kind of SUV they drive, so it's more of an attitude towards life than it is anything special about a degree.
jobaba Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 ^^^^ That is certainly the truth. My education (PhD) turned out to be a big disadvantage in dating. I also wanted someone highly educated -- but even women in my PhD program wanted the hot popular guys that perhaps they missed out on in college. I don't consider this unusual by any means: I assume you didn't do your pHd in materials science and polymers...
aj22one Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 If a woman has an advanced degree and decides against mentioning it (or "flaunting" it) because she fears putting off guys like the OP, then she is in for a dismal dating experience. She should be happy to weed them out as swiftly as possible. She needs to be dating men who actually think it's cool that she accomplished this, regardless of their own level of education - not guys who think she's an idiot if she is proud of it and that she should mainly be concerned with her looks and how good she is in bed. That's pretty sad. Eh, I'm talking about a woman who says "I have a masters degree and I expect my man to be educated" that sort of thing is a little bit of a put off. One can be quite educated and never go to college (or have only a bachelors degree or what have you). I love educated women I just don't like to feel inferior either.
Star Gazer Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I've never run into anyone in a dating context who "flaunted" her master's (or any other kind of) degree. One thing I have run into (both in dating and other situations) is people who name-drop schools in the same way they do fashion labels or something, like "That's Bob, he went to Columbia. And that's Taylor, she went Harvard." I find that really odd. I have a stack of degrees from some really good schools, but I never mention it unless I'm asked or if it comes up in a conversation that I went to the same school as someone. God, I hate that too.
FitChick Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I've dated a fair number of men with PhDs and a few without any university education (the latter were British, so that may skew things a bit). Ultimately, it didn't matter very much in terms of day to day compatibility, personality, values, goals, etc. They were all intelligent, cultured and sophisticated. If anything, the ones without degrees seemed to make more of an effort to learn and stay current instead of resting on their laurels. I once dated an academic who taught at university level who had the common sense and maturity of a five-year old.
GorillaTheater Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 I once dated an academic who taught at university level who had the common sense and maturity of a five-year old. And thank God for those folks, keeping me employed as they do.
snowflakes88 Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Luckily for OP, most women with advanced degrees aren't interested in men who are insecure about their own lacking education. All works out in the wash.
sweetjasmine Posted February 27, 2012 Posted February 27, 2012 Of course it's on me for feeling that way. I hope I don't come across as some holier than thou victim. I'll admit very accomplished people not just women do sometimes intimidate me. At least at first. No, you don't come across as some holier than thou victim. And I've felt intimidated by accomplished people as well, but I eventually remember they're just ordinary human beings, too. I just mean that it's not really that other person's fault that I ever felt intimidated and I don't think they should have to hide who they are or what they've done to spare my feelings. I don't think they should have to walk on eggshells for fear of being called a snob because they've managed to accomplish something. I'm talking about mentioning it in a way that makes it seem like you like to flaunt your advanced education. It's hard to describe. Most people don't do this but it does happen. Yeah, we were talking about different things. Flaunting is irritating, and in my experience, the flaunters are mostly hot air anyway.
denise_xo Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I really don't understand why some people are making a fuss about having met some post graduate who doesn't have any common sense or doesn't know how to put a CV together. People without common sense exist in all parts of the population and academia is no different. I've met carpenters, electricians and school teachers who didn't have a freaking clue, but that doesn't lead me to conclude that taking an education for such professions is a waste of time. Academics don't usually write CVs as part of their training. I have several times been told that I write excellent job application letters and I've learned that by reading lots of samples, asking career advisors and friends for advice, and searching for info on the Internet. That skill has nothing to do with my academic credentials.
zengirl Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I really don't understand why some people are making a fuss about having met some post graduate who doesn't have any common sense or doesn't know how to put a CV together. People without common sense exist in all parts of the population and academia is no different. I've met carpenters, electricians and school teachers who didn't have a freaking clue, but that doesn't lead me to conclude that taking an education for such professions is a waste of time. Academics don't usually write CVs as part of their training. I have several times been told that I write excellent job application letters and I've learned that by reading lots of samples, asking career advisors and friends for advice, and searching for info on the Internet. That skill has nothing to do with my academic credentials. IMO, the need to say things like "academics have no common sense" --it's just insecurity. Frankly, common sense isn't very common, and no, it doesn't come with any degree. But you don't magically "lose" it or lose out on getting it by getting a degree either. At any rate, academia is just training. Depending on the program, various skills and qualities would be required (tenacity being more required than intelligence, honestly---I don't think you can get a PhD or a JD or an MD without being hardworking and tenacious, and while most will require intelligence of a specific kind, there are multiple intelligences), but I don't know any academics who think it magically makes them better at everything. I don't see why anyone would disparage anyone else's accomplishments except insecurity, though.
denise_xo Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 tenacity being more required than intelligence, honestly Absolutely. The difference between those who complete their PhDs or master theses and those who don't, lies primarily in persistence. 1
Emilia Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I think it's to counteract the assumption that the more education someone has, the stronger all their skillsets become. It's plainly not true. I also happen to think that a lot of people become institutionalised if they spend many of their adult years sheltered in formal education. I tend not to seek out PhD guys for this reason.
denise_xo Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I think it's to counteract the assumption that the more education someone has, the stronger all their skillsets become. It's plainly not true. I also happen to think that a lot of people become institutionalised if they spend many of their adult years sheltered in formal education. I tend not to seek out PhD guys for this reason. The bold is obviously completely faulty (and IME experience, academics would be the first to admit that). As a society, we have done ourselves a huge disservice by elevating academic knowledge to the top of some fictitious knowledge hierarchy. As zengirl said, it's just a particular kind of training to do particular kinds of things. Where I live, however, it's often academics who will argue against that kind of hierarchical view of knowledges and the generic skills hype, while policy makers and politicians will heavily argue for things such as "academising" vocational training and introducing standardised tests that place prime value on e.g. abstract mathematical knowledge.
zengirl Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I think it's to counteract the assumption that the more education someone has, the stronger all their skillsets become. It's plainly not true. I also happen to think that a lot of people become institutionalised if they spend many of their adult years sheltered in formal education. I tend not to seek out PhD guys for this reason. I think the "sheltered" premise (they honestly don't lock us in at night) is as faulty as the assumption that all skillsets become stronger. Which, yes, is faulty. Honestly, most of the academics I know are NOT snobs, but there is a lot of anti-intellectual snobbery these days. I don't get it. Why assume someone's training and experience somehow made them worse off? That's absurd. It didn't make them magically good at everything, no. . . but who said it did? Besides many, many terminal degrees (all the ones I can think of require you to at least DO what you're being trained in) require experience in the field, either done as work prior or during or clinical experiences/research/internships during. The whole point of continued education is to learn from more than just books and basics. 1
denise_xo Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 they honestly don't lock us in at night My take is that we're all sheltered in different ways. I've worked many years in conflict zones/ with issues related to poverty, political persecution, and so on. I have friends and family members at home (with a range of backgrounds in terms of work experience or education) who openly say that they'd rather not relate to such things and prefer to turn the TV off when such issues are on the news. "Real life" is different things to different people.
zengirl Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 My take is that we're all sheltered in different ways. I've worked many years in conflict zones/ with issues related to poverty, political persecution, and so on. I have friends and family members at home (with a range of backgrounds in terms of work experience or education) who openly say that they'd rather not relate to such things and prefer to turn the TV off when such issues are on the news. "Real life" is different things to different people. True enough. And yes, I do think that people who are financially well off (including myself and most people who get terminal degrees, but no more so than anyone else who's doing well) are sheltered somewhat. Granted, I'm like you---I've worked with kids in poverty and so forth; it's what I do every day. I technically work for a literacy foundation, but we do outreach in a neighborhood where gangs, teenage pregnancy, poverty, hunger, and drugs are rampant, and you can't just teach kids to read when they're worried about those things. But even I get to go home at the end of the day to somewhere very much like that, and I was raised in an environment where I did not lack for basic security and needs. That's a bit sheltered right there. But you're right---we're all sheltered from different things.
Engadget Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I despise people who flaunt their education. They act as if it gives them a right to be snooty or it makes them smarter than you. It doesn't. I'm kind of glad they have that requirement, helps me to steer clear of them completely.
zengirl Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I despise people who flaunt their education. They act as if it gives them a right to be snooty or it makes them smarter than you. It doesn't. I'm kind of glad they have that requirement, helps me to steer clear of them completely. So you, and maybe the OP thinks mentioning it (or even listing it in the sidebar) is 'flaunting it' and being snooty? I think it's much snootier to get upset about someone else describing themselves accurately. . . It seems to me like more people in this thread have thrown snobbish comments ABOUT people with advanced degrees (sheltered, no common sense, snobs, etc) than people with advanced degrees in this thread have commented snobbishly against those without them. 1
serial muse Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) I think the "sheltered" premise (they honestly don't lock us in at night) is as faulty as the assumption that all skillsets become stronger. Which, yes, is faulty. Honestly, most of the academics I know are NOT snobs, but there is a lot of anti-intellectual snobbery these days. I don't get it. Why assume someone's training and experience somehow made them worse off? That's absurd. It didn't make them magically good at everything, no. . . but who said it did? Besides many, many terminal degrees (all the ones I can think of require you to at least DO what you're being trained in) require experience in the field, either done as work prior or during or clinical experiences/research/internships during. The whole point of continued education is to learn from more than just books and basics. Absolutely right. This post is common sense. I also happen to think that a lot of people become institutionalised if they spend many of their adult years sheltered in formal education. I tend not to seek out PhD guys for this reason. Sure, this can be true. But there's also a self-selection there - people sometimes select that world because they're already inclined to retreat from society. But painting everyone with a broad brush is a non-starter of a proposition. There are clueless people in every walk of life. A PhD is no guarantee that someone's going to be snooty, an ivory tower recluse, or a jerk. Here's what I want to know from the OP: Details. I honestly am unclear from the OP whether or not this person/these people who mention their masters do it in a flaunting way or not. And seriously, as has been made clear on this thread, context is everything. Please explain exactly what you are objecting to, OP. That would help a lot. I mean, nobody likes an annoying, self-important braggart. But a profile is supposed to be where you talk about yourself and explain what matters to you and who you are. If education is sincerely a big part of a person's life, I don't see why it shouldn't be mentioned; and, by the same token, if you see that and you don't resonate with it, then that profile has done its precise job - told you what you wanted to know: This person isn't a good fit. What is important to you isn't necessarily important to others, and vice versa. So the fact that you think it's not worth mentioning at all is worlds away from the fact that a person is actually bragging. OP, on another note, I think you also complained a while back about the way that someone you met online had a phone conversation with you. Meaning, you were annoyed that she got too serious in the conversation or something, wanted to talk about deep things and you felt that was all wrong for a first phone convo. You also seem awfully critical of other peoples' profiles, quite often. I think you would enjoy OLD more if you just let the ones go that are clearly not a good match for you, rather than tearing them down because they aren't a good match for you. Not everyone is going to be a good match! That doesn't need to threaten you so much. Why not just acquire a bit more zen about that? Edited February 28, 2012 by serial muse
carhill Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Ladies men don't care about your master's degree OK??? I think opinion can differ on that. As an example, my best friend, a man with an eighth grade education, loves hiring educated, smart women. Why? They make him tons of money, and he pays them quite well for it. Some are so low-key about it I didn't know for some time until meeting with them away from work. Some are more open. It is what it is. People are different. I'll delineate the difference for myself, wrt 'don't care'. I personally admire and respect women who achieve in academics and do the work and have the smarts to get undergraduate, graduate and post-graduate degrees. Invariably, I'm interested in their subject matter and careers, mainly because I'm curious about life. A compatible woman will see skillsets/creativity/and persistence as equitable rather than a function of one being 'better' than another. If she's curious about life, she'll likewise be curious about nuances of my skillset and, as an educated and intelligent women, even more so, because she clearly understands the diversity of life and the world we live in; her education has provided her with this insight and critical thinking skill. This is attractive to me. If other, other. If she mentions in her dating profile, or in casual conversation, that she 'has a masters', my response would/will be 'what causes you to be so passionate about that field of endeavor?' and then hopefully and enlightening conversation starts there. Conversations have two sides. How that plays out is part of what compatibility turns upon. Good luck.
RedRobin Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Sadly... Academic training has more or less replaced apprenticeship in many fields. Companies don't want to invest the many years it takes to train employees, and so gravitate to higher and higher levels of education as a fix-it. It isn't the fault of the person going for the higher education that conditions have changed. The OP has no idea what that person may have gone through or sacrificed to get that education. Instead of feeling intimidated, he might very well discover (to his surprise) that the person in question has a high capacity for investment and commitment too. Both things that would bode well for a long-term relationship. You never know until you meet them and talk to them though. On the other hand, if he sees it as another chance to feel bad about himself, then I can understand why he'd want to avoid it. I don't tend to go out with men who post much lower ages than me either. I don't want to feel I'll get dumped for a younger model. Just like I'm sure the OP doesn't want to be afraid he'll be traded up on when the girl of his desire meets someone more educated. Maybe that is where this is coming from?
Engadget Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 So you, and maybe the OP thinks mentioning it (or even listing it in the sidebar) is 'flaunting it' and being snooty? I think it's much snootier to get upset about someone else describing themselves accurately. . . It seems to me like more people in this thread have thrown snobbish comments ABOUT people with advanced degrees (sheltered, no common sense, snobs, etc) than people with advanced degrees in this thread have commented snobbishly against those without them. You misunderstood what I said. FLAUNTING is different than MENTIONING. People who require a date to have the same level of education are usually obnoxious, terrible people. A degree doesn't make you smart, be proud you got it I guess, but don't go around demanding everyone have the same or that they're beneath you because they don't. The smartest people I've ever met don't have college degrees. "If you want an education, go to a library. If you want to get laid, go to college." - Frank Zappa 1
Jane2011 Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) Haha dude, lots of people are ok with having shall we say "refined" tastes. Yeah yeah you might be single for a while but getting what you really want is worth it. Personally, education level is not my preferred criteria of limiting people but I understand people's desire to be choosy. Agree with this. Within reason, I see myself as having 'refined' tastes. I'm open to dating anybody of any education level, but I have standards that I can't significantly lower no matter how hard I might try (or be told by others to do). To be honest, many of the men I've met lately who have Bachelor's degrees or less have been unsatisfactory to me. It's basically because, even though they have a Bachelor's degree, you would not know it based on the way they communicated. That being said, my ex-boyfriend who I was with for five years, has a Bachelor's degree only, and he definitely met and exceeded my expectations for intelligence and communication skills. He just happens to be a guy for whom a college education actually did what it's supposed to do. I don't 'require' a guy who has a Master's degree or higher, but technically I think it's my best bet to look in that pool. I have the best chance of being satisfied. That said, I'm discriminate in both directions. In the past six months, I've gone out with two guys who had PhDs. I didn't want either of them, either. On Sunday, I had coffee with a friend of mine who has a PhD. Although I didn't tell her about this thread or even bring up this subject matter, it came up in conversation that she at one time dated a guy with a Bachelor's degree only, and she felt like she had to 'educate' him all the time about issues related to her field (and that are also relevant to people, society, our daily lives in general -- not obscure concepts that people don't know or care about). She told me it was just that guy, though, and that she doesn't care about degrees or formal education level. But the thing is, she can say she doesn't care, and she probably doesn't, technically. Yet, her matches are always guys who have advanced degrees. She may as well just look in that pool only, 'cause that's where the best fit is gonna happen, whether she likes it or not, whether she particularly wants that or not. (She's currently with a guy who has his PhD, just like her). Edited February 28, 2012 by Jane2011
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