Dating sucks...

[somedude81]

introspection is important, why did you think you where so compatible?

Oh God, I'm not going to write about her now. I'd just break down thinking about her that much.

 

If you are curious, I've written several threads about her.

 

Edit:

 

Wow, I just did a search on myself and found this thread I wrote after we had our first date. It's from April 2010. Unfortunately the thread where I talked about the date was deleted.

 

Damn, things haven't really changed in the two years we knew each other.

Edited February 28, 2012 by somedude81

[Leigh 87]

I do not think it is doom and gloom, for every one.

 

If a guy excudes a positive, happy attitude, and seams nice enough, I will sit down and give him the time to get to know him; for all I know, he could make me really happy in a relationship.

 

I do not sit there and judge people's jobs, salaries, even phsycial appearances. I judge how happy they make me, and as long as they can support themselves, and we are compatible, I will wait and see if they have the potential to make me very happy.

 

 

 

There are basic values you need to share, and the obvious thing in order to be suited to spending great deals of time together: religious affiliation, sometimes political beliefs, if you both want to settle down or not, among a few other core things.

 

 

I mean, Sheesh. As long as they look positive and happy and kind, why not get to know them? Then, if they are absolutely great company and u see potential for feelings to develop, see if you are suitable.

 

 

Seriously. I just do not have a long list of things I need. For me, it is just

 

- happy and positive person, abiet times when they are upset, but generally positive outlooks in life

 

- I like advanterous, guys who want to try or have done sky diving, and the like.

 

- we get along well enough to want to be together all the time

 

- is proactive and thinks about self improvement, and likes to try new things, and will try new things with me, together as a couple, to keep thigns challenging and interesting for us ( learn spanish, for instance, is something I want to learn)

 

 

- Will please me in bed, will go down on me ( some guys do not do it or like it)

 

- can support himself financially, and wants to save up to travel, because I sure do. It can take years to save for a trip, I do not mind, just as a goal we have together to do

 

- I want a person who has, or who is interested in travel and exploring the world.

 

- not looking for a model, because I am not one; just reasonably attractive to some men

 

 

 

 

 

 

There.

 

- THey do not need to be any better looking than average.

- they do not need to have a great job

- they do not have to have a huge dick

- they do not need to bloe my socks off at the first meeting

- they can make mistakes, as long as they are not core, fundamental flaws they need to adress before we are together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it would be easier to find a good fit, if we bloody just GAVE PEOPLE A CHANCE.

 

 

 

 

My boyfriend did not have a good job, and was not hot to me when i first met him. Howeever, he was nice and I liked him enough, to keep seeing him. We are together over a year later, and very happy to have each other.

[Teknoe]

SD81,

You say you are nice, sometimes too nice, but if we asked D "Do you think SD was nice to you?" how do you suppose she would answer? You were pushy and clingy (I still recall your posts where you wrote "I texted her a couple times and she didn't respond..."). Anyone could see you were the one who cared most about the "friendship." I saw the split coming. So did most people.

 

You even posted about how you wanted to scream at her and just hurt her feelings, make her feel bad. It was very telling. I don't think a genuinely nice person thinks like that. The more she pulled away from you, the more unstable you got. The more depressed you got. That is simply not healthy.

 

You also claim "we were so compatible."

 

Why then, did she tell you during the "break-off" (not breakup, but break-off) "Um, we really don't have much in common..." ?

 

You thought you two were super compatible.

She thought the complete opposite.

 

Something's off.

Based on your post history, evidence points to you not having a firm grasp on reality. Your reality is distorted, and that includes "Nothing I do can really improve me for the better to attract more girls to me."

 

There are some deep seated wounds with you, my friend. I wouldn't be surprised if they developed during childhood and adolescence. You recently said you had a nasty breakup with friends in high school and junior college. I'm sure that scarred you in some way.

 

You really need to swallow your pride and go get some professional help. ThaWholigan was right when he said "You really are scared to make the efforts to become the man you can be."

 

Fear and denial are two crippling factors.

 

Sadly, nothing we say here will sway you. You're so deep in your own self-pity and negativity that I genuinely feel sorry for you. It's obvious if you continue the rest of 2012 the way you are now, without making any concerted changes in your lifestyle, you will continue down this downward spiral of depression and lack of hope.

 

We all want to see SD81 attempt steps toward good health. Sadly, you don't want it as bad as we do. And you're the only one whose viewpoint really count.

[zengirl]

There was a thread here a while ago, and many if not all women said they would not go out with a guy they just met. So how is me not asking out girls after a single conversation something I'm doing wrong?

 

Most girls would not go out with most guys. Most guys would also not go out with most girls (I know you think they would, but even you wouldn't or you'd find more girls you liked to ask out frequently, so it's just silly to think guys will go out with anyone---they won't, neither will women). I get that to men like you it sucks that women are socialized to 'wait' and men have to do the asking (to women like me, it also sucked, but I had the option of choosing to ask men out---not all men like that, but I'm in a generation where it's luckily not abhorrent), but you can't change socialization.

 

That's the one beef I would potentially allow you, theoretically, but as I have asked men out (and been rejected), I really don't have much more than a tiny violin for you. I've also been in sales, so I understand constant and repetitive rejection---those jobs gave me much more so than you've ever received. It's really just something you've got to learn to accept and master if you want success.

 

I highly doubt I'm trying to get girls out of my league, unless my league is ugly fat girls, that are far below average.

 

I care about much more than just the surface.

 

That aside, it's almost as if you are saying because I have physical standards, I'm superficial. If that's the case, everybody is superficial, yes even you zengirl, unless you'd date anybody when you were single.

 

Yes I talk about looks a lot, and that's because I believe that women are very superficial and they are rejecting me based on my looks alone.

 

I do think we're all superficial to some degree (I've told you that), but I think you're superficial to a much stronger degree. The things you've said in previous threads cement that, the way you talk about women and their looks cements that, and even these things you say here---why bring up ugly fat girls? Why fixate on your own looks as the problem when we've said there are many things in your thoughts, attitude, and actions/inaction that are problems? It's superficiality to fixate on looks as extremely as you do.

 

And last time I checked, I'm not ugly, fat, or grotesque in any way. I'm just shorter than average, other than that I'm pefecily ordinary. And any women who can't accept that is the one who is superficial.

 

First of all, no one HAS to be attracted to you. Perhaps if you built something internally that was more attractive, you'd find different results, but as someone who's fixating on the outsides of people---that's what you talk about, so that's what you're fixated on---it's no surprise that you're getting rejected for yours. Girls who care less about that (and they exist) wouldn't go near you.

 

Superficiality doesn't magically start at "average" people. It's not more superficial to reject someone who's decent looking but too short for you than it is too fat for you or whatever. All of those things are superficial. What brings the degrees of superficiality is how much you think about them, how many other things you want a partner to bring to the table, what you fixate on, etc. It's not the degree of hotness you're willing to "give up" because you don't think you deserve it that makes one less superficial. That's absurd.

 

So me thinking that women are superficial is going to make them want to help me less? Why, are they afraid of the truth?

 

Because it's not the truth. Frankly any statement that starts with, "men are..." and "women are..." that is not a statement that's a biological fact is probably not the truth. There are many different types of women and men.

 

And this "women are superficial" kick is absurd. Statistics would bear out that, on average, men care more about looks than women---now, it's a broad spectrum in both genders, but I don't know where you got the idea that you spew absolute truth.

 

Reread my posts again. Then point out where I said I want a hot girl.

I'm saying their superficial because of what they consider physically attractive is only a very small window.

 

That's not related to superficiality. The level of what someone wants has no relation to it---it's fixating primarily on exterior factors, even if you're cool with someone less hot because it's what you can get.

 

The only time I ever mention hotness is when I say I don't need a hot girl! And the only reason I even say that is because people like you keep saying that I'm only into hot girls.

 

Nobody said you were really into hot girls. I pointed out your superficiality. The two are not the same. That said, you have even said---in your requirements---you would not want to date someone with A cup breasts for instance and you also want someone who's not overweight. You think it's more superficial to not want to date a guy who's 5'' shorter (much less statistically likely to happen to most women than it is for the thin women you meet to have A cups) than to say you'd encourage a woman who was "otherwise perfect" (physically, no mention of her other qualities) to get breast implants and then all you ever learned was that it's not socially aware to SAY it. That's just an extreme version of your superficiality, but even the way you fixate on women and view them is extremely superficial.

 

I'm always nice to women. Even the ugly fat ones that I secretly think are disgusting.

 

Superficial. Why is someone 'disgusting' because of the way they look?

 

Would I have gone out with someone who was not attractive to me? No. But to think they're disgusting. . .that's extreme.

 

Those aren't things that I can actually do different. One doesn't just decide to be happier.

 

Yes, that's totally how a person becomes happier after long time unhappiness. It's the easiest and sometimes only way.

 

When I read threads like this about what men need to be/do/say/act/dress/behave/have etc etc etc it just annoys the hell out of me. It's a constant never ending list that just goes around and around in circles.

 

I don't think men have to do that much, honestly. And women have to do some things too. Really, dating is just fumbling around in the dark. Its people who claim to have no success but keep on doing the same things (regardless of gender, there are women like that on LS too) that need to change and do things for success. The ladies with their V neck comments and so forth probably aren't as serious about these "rules" as they think. I know hubby violates several of my silly "rules" but that's okay. The "rules" are just there to give us something to think about in the meantime; it's part of how many women cope with being single---we make lists. Making lists is something we're socialized to do, which is why you'll see it in every dating book for women.

 

SD81,

You say you are nice, sometimes too nice, but if we asked D "Do you think SD was nice to you?" how do you suppose she would answer? You were pushy and clingy (I still recall your posts where you wrote "I texted her a couple times and she didn't respond..."). Anyone could see you were the one who cared most about the "friendship." I saw the split coming. So did most people.

 

You even posted about how you wanted to scream at her and just hurt her feelings, make her feel bad. It was very telling. I don't think a genuinely nice person thinks like that. The more she pulled away from you, the more unstable you got. The more depressed you got. That is simply not healthy.

 

You also claim "we were so compatible."

 

Why then, did she tell you during the "break-off" (not breakup, but break-off) "Um, we really don't have much in common..." ?

 

You thought you two were super compatible.

She thought the complete opposite.

 

Something's off.

 

Yes. All of this yes.

 

SD: You found her physically attractive -- to the point where you thought it was totally cool to joke around about her breasts and even though she finally got upset with you for that, you totally maintain that she liked it --- and I believe that led you to feel you guys had things in common because she was nice to you. Really nice to you. D sounded like a really nice person who really didn't want to hurt your feelings but just finally had 'enough' in the end. And when she asserted herself, you got angry.

 

That's not nice. And nice is not being socially acceptable with people even though they're fat and they disgust you. You're not getting anywhere near nice with these comments.

Edited February 28, 2012 by zengirl

[somedude81]

I do think we're all superficial to some degree (I've told you that), but I think you're superficial to a much stronger degree. The things you've said in previous threads cement that, the way you talk about women and their looks cements that, and even these things you say here---why bring up ugly fat girls?

Because if I just said that I want a girl somebody is bound to ask, even if they were ugly and fat?

 

Why fixate on your own looks as the problem when we've said there are many things in your thoughts, attitude, and actions/inaction that are problems? It's superficiality to fixate on looks as extremely as you do.

Because I know looks are important to women. I know that a woman will not date somebody she is not physically attracted to. I know that I am not that physically attractive.

 

I'm also pretty sure that there is nothing wrong with my personality and the fact that I can have close female friends confirms that. So all that's left to say is that the reason I can have female friends, but not actually date anybody is because I'm not attractive.

 

 

it's no surprise that you're getting rejected for yours. Girls who care less about that (and they exist) wouldn't go near you.

Nobody has yet to explain how I'm getting rejected for my superficiality.

 

 

 

Superficiality doesn't magically start at "average" people.

It does for me. If one can't accept average, they are superficial. That's how I see it.

 

It's not more superficial to reject someone who's decent looking but too short for you than it is too fat for you or whatever. All of those things are superficial.

I see being overweight as a choice. And then, the way excess fat disrupts a woman's figure just looks wrong. There is a reason why many men don't like obese women.

 

For me, it is more superficial to reject a guy just because he is a few inches shorter than average, than to reject a girl who is grossly overweight.

And this "women are superficial" kick is absurd. Statistics would bear out that, on average, men care more about looks than women---now, it's a broad spectrum in both genders, but I don't know where you got the idea that you spew absolute truth.

I don't think that's the case anymore.

 

 

That's not related to superficiality. The level of what someone wants has no relation to it---it's fixating primarily on exterior factors, even if you're cool with someone less hot because it's what you can get.

So when I want something I superficial, when a woman want's something, she's not. Yeah OK.

 

Superficial. Why is someone 'disgusting' because of the way they look?

Fine, then give me another word I can use when I see somebody and I get a bad feeling because of how the look.

Yes, that's totally how a person becomes happier after long time unhappiness. It's the easiest and sometimes only way.

If they are on some kind of narcotics.

 

SD: You found her physically attractive -- to the point where you thought it was totally cool to joke around about her breasts and even though she finally got upset with you for that, you totally maintain that she liked it

Me finding her attractive has no bearing on whether I felt I could joke about her breasts or not.

 

If that was the case, how come I don't joke about the breasts of every pretty girl I see?

 

Come on zengirl, you're smarter than that.

 

 

 

--- and I believe that led you to feel you guys had things in common because she was nice to you.

We had a lot of things in common because we had a lot of things in common. What is so hard to understand?

 

D sounded like a really nice person who really didn't want to hurt your feelings but just finally had 'enough' in the end. And when she asserted herself, you got angry.

She was always nice and very understanding.

 

Then she suddenly snapped and cut me off without any explanation.

 

That's why I got mad.

 

She was somebody I strongly cared about and felt very close to, and after a minor fight she decided to disappear.

 

To this day I'm still confused. And I'm mad because she took away what I enjoyed most in this world.

Edited February 28, 2012 by somedude81

[Els]

Nobody has yet to explain how I'm getting rejected for my superficiality.

 

About 4 of us tried, for several pages of one of your threads. It culminated in you getting very angry and accusing all of us for 'attacking you' and 'getting defensive', so I decided not to bother in this thread. Your life, your loss.

[zengirl]

About 4 of us tried, for several pages of one of your threads. It culminated in you getting very angry and accusing all of us for 'attacking you' and 'getting defensive', so I decided not to bother in this thread. Your life, your loss.

 

Yeah, pretty much. SD, I'm out of this discussion. I can only try to help so much before it's hitting a brick wall over and over.

[wezol]

Yes I talk about looks a lot, and that's because I believe that women are very superficial and they are rejecting me based on my looks alone.

 

And last time I checked, I'm not ugly, fat, or grotesque in any way. I'm just shorter than average, other than that I'm pefecily ordinary. And any women who can't accept that is the one who is superficial.

 

I highly doubt women are turning you down based on looks alone, you have a defeatist attitude and it shows. I can almost guarantee that you are better looking than I am, but I can also guarantee that I can "pull" more women than you in a heart beat. Hell, everyone I ever met who has seen a picture of my ex wife was amazed at how good looking she was.

 

I'm far from GQ, but I'm also not ugly. I have a lot to offer a woman, I know it, and it shows in my confidence. I also have a very very thick skin.

 

Get over that pessimistic "poor pitiful me life is so horrible I'm never going to get any" bull**** attitude. Women can sense that, and know that you have no confidence.

 

Either way, this has all been said to you time and time again. Just know, that however your dating life turns out, falls on you.

Edited February 28, 2012 by wezol

[jobaba]

I'm not even sure if it's worth all the effort or what we get in return. It seems like 100 units of effort for about 5 units of return. I don't see anythinng like these lists for women, in fact most women just have to show up and not be fat. It's laughable reading some of the male posters here telling other posters how they need to improve in order to get a woman like its some kind of high stakes competition.

 

Well. Women and men form approximately a 1:1 ratio in this country. So...eventually what happens is that some women who are too picky when it comes to physical attractiveness and 'SWAG' end up passing on good men and end up with d@uchebags who cheat or MAJORLY screw up their lives or end up alone.

 

Those who choose men for other reasons end up happier I believe.

 

introspection is important, why did you think you where so compatible?

 

This is a non-issue. Here's why. If Somedude were hot or had the attitude she wanted, she'd be all over it. I've been rejected by women who ended up dating men who were less compatible than I was with them, and observed even more women who have dated guys they had almost nothing in common with because there was physical attraction.

 

It's always the job of the person being rejected to be introspective and think to themselves, "We weren't such a good fit after all." In reality, romance for women works on so many levels past compatibility and friendship.

[jobaba]

I do not think it is doom and gloom, for every one.

 

If a guy excudes a positive, happy attitude, and seams nice enough, I will sit down and give him the time to get to know him; for all I know, he could make me really happy in a relationship.

 

I do not sit there and judge people's jobs, salaries, even phsycial appearances. I judge how happy they make me, and as long as they can support themselves, and we are compatible, I will wait and see if they have the potential to make me very happy.

 

 

 

There are basic values you need to share, and the obvious thing in order to be suited to spending great deals of time together: religious affiliation, sometimes political beliefs, if you both want to settle down or not, among a few other core things.

 

 

I mean, Sheesh. As long as they look positive and happy and kind, why not get to know them? Then, if they are absolutely great company and u see potential for feelings to develop, see if you are suitable.

 

 

Seriously. I just do not have a long list of things I need. For me, it is just

 

- happy and positive person, abiet times when they are upset, but generally positive outlooks in life

 

- I like advanterous, guys who want to try or have done sky diving, and the like.

 

- we get along well enough to want to be together all the time

 

- is proactive and thinks about self improvement, and likes to try new things, and will try new things with me, together as a couple, to keep thigns challenging and interesting for us ( learn spanish, for instance, is something I want to learn)

 

 

- Will please me in bed, will go down on me ( some guys do not do it or like it)

 

- can support himself financially, and wants to save up to travel, because I sure do. It can take years to save for a trip, I do not mind, just as a goal we have together to do

 

- I want a person who has, or who is interested in travel and exploring the world.

 

- not looking for a model, because I am not one; just reasonably attractive to some men

 

 

 

 

 

 

There.

 

- THey do not need to be any better looking than average.

- they do not need to have a great job

- they do not have to have a huge dick

- they do not need to bloe my socks off at the first meeting

- they can make mistakes, as long as they are not core, fundamental flaws they need to adress before we are together.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it would be easier to find a good fit, if we bloody just GAVE PEOPLE A CHANCE.

 

 

 

 

My boyfriend did not have a good job, and was not hot to me when i first met him. Howeever, he was nice and I liked him enough, to keep seeing him. We are together over a year later, and very happy to have each other.

 

Let's just say if the majority of people thought like you did, this thread might not exist.

 

Search the annals of the forum for conclusive evidence that most DO NOT.

 

Congrats on your boyfriend though.

[somedude81]

About 4 of us tried, for several pages of one of your threads. It culminated in you getting very angry and accusing all of us for 'attacking you' and 'getting defensive', so I decided not to bother in this thread. Your life, your loss.

 

Yeah, pretty much. SD, I'm out of this discussion. I can only try to help so much before it's hitting a brick wall over and over.

LOL as if I was the one to bring up the superficial talk.

 

If you want to call me out and say that my supposed superficiality is the reason why I'm getting rejected then not explain how, why bother bringing it up at all?

 

And I still think it's funny that you said I joked about D's breasts because I was attracted to her. I was waiting to see how you could explain that one.

[verhrzn]

LOL as if I was the one to bring up the superficial talk.

 

If you want to call me out and say that my supposed superficiality is the reason why I'm getting rejected then not explain how, why bother bringing it up at all?

 

And I still think it's funny that you said I joked about D's breasts because I was attracted to her. I was waiting to see how you could explain that one.

 

I can explain why it might be a (large) contributing factor in why you get rejected... Your superficial attitude, your willingness to "settle" for an average girl, makes the average girl feel like junk.

 

Due to my looks, guys often place me in either the "average" or the "below average" category. Some guys, however, are willing to date me because they are desperate. They are willing to "settle" for the girl they see as average with the good personality, because they can't get the hot girl they actually idealize.

 

Settling, however, never works in the long run. Eventually, these guys gain confidence, and realize they CAN get the hot girl. So they dump the average girl they settled for (who was already feeling insecure for being seen as her boyfriend as 'average.')

 

This has happened to me so many times, and it's eaten deep into my soul. I do not want to be "settled" for. I would rather be alone than have a guy date me and say," Eh, she's average, she'll do." Relationships like this never last.

 

Your words are extremely telling. You don't say you'd like an "conventionally unattractive" girl. You don't say that personality matters most to you, though you have preferences about looks. You specifically say "settle" in exchange for a good personality.

 

NO girl wants to be that girl. NO girl wants to be the one you settled for. It's a lose-lose situation for her; she spends her life with a guy who isn't that into her, and takes a very serious risk he'll dump her when someone better comes along.

 

Strictly speaking, there is nothing wrong with being superficial. What posters take offense at is your hypocritical attitude. You excuse your own physical standards ("well my ideal is a hot girl, but I'd take an average girl") while bemoaning women's attractiveness standards.

 

Either own your own superficial desires, and respect other people's, or do away with yours and attract others who also don't put emphasis on looks.

[NXS]

I don't think men have to do that much, honestly. And women have to do some things too. Really, dating is just fumbling around in the dark. Its people who claim to have no success but keep on doing the same things (regardless of gender, there are women like that on LS too) that need to change and do things for success. The ladies with their V neck comments and so forth probably aren't as serious about these "rules" as they think. I know hubby violates several of my silly "rules" but that's okay. The "rules" are just there to give us something to think about in the meantime; it's part of how many women cope with being single---we make lists. Making lists is something we're socialized to do, which is why you'll see it in every dating book for women.

 

My colleague with the V-neck rule was at an office night out a couple of months ago to a karaoki bar. The guy hosting the karaoki was a very good looking guy, good personality, good singer etc but she didn't want anything to do with him because he broke her golden rule. It was absurd.

 

This socialization of women is the problem; books/magazines/movies/ads/talk shows etc all telling women what they should be demanding from men. There's nothing whatsoever about what women should give in return, it's all me me me me. The result is a large number of what I can only describe as pampered, selfish, childlike women with ever more absurd demands and no sense of give and take. I'm beginning to think that some of these absurd rules, like my above example, are nothing more than some kind of status symbol that women use to compete with each other. It's like how much more absurd can I be and still get a man.

 

I'm sure many of the female posters here think that I and some of the other guys here are exaggerating about all of this but the fact is you've never dated women and you don't know what it's like.

[jobaba]

 

This socialization of women is the problem; books/magazines/movies/ads/talk shows etc all telling women what they should be demanding from men. There's nothing whatsoever about what women should give in return, it's all me me me me. The result is a large number of what I can only describe as pampered, selfish, childlike women with ever more absurd demands and no sense of give and take. I'm beginning to think that some of these absurd rules, like my above example, are nothing more than some kind of status symbol that women use to compete with each other. It's like how much more absurd can I be and still get a man.

 

A lot of those women seem to be on dating forums it seems.

 

Like I said, it has to even out. One to one ratio. If that woman doesn't have a lot going on herself, then she'll lower her standards or end up alone...

[NXS]

Well. Women and men form approximately a 1:1 ratio in this country. So...eventually what happens is that some women who are too picky when it comes to physical attractiveness and 'SWAG' end up passing on good men and end up with d@uchebags who cheat or MAJORLY screw up their lives or end up alone.

 

Those who choose men for other reasons end up happier I believe.

 

Well there's something seriously off about the maths, for example I've read numerous female posters here talking about the number of contacts they get on dating sites and it's often in the 100s. Some of these same women will bemoan the fact that they can't get a decent guy.

 

On the other hand many of the male posters say they only get a couple of responses and never get an initial contact. I just can't get my head around this, it's almost like men outnumber women by 100/1.

[somedude81]

I can explain why it might be a (large) contributing factor in why you get rejected... Your superficial attitude, your willingness to "settle" for an average girl, makes the average girl feel like junk.

Sorry V, but that doesn't make any more sense either.

 

I have never told a girl that she'll do or that she's average or that I'd settle for her.

 

I simply don't talk about looks with girls and I also don't give compliments based on looks, which may be a bad thing, I'm not sure yet.

 

I've always believed that when a girl knows I like her, she's able to figure out that I also think she's pretty. It's not something that I'd have to actually state. Maybe I'm wrong about that too?

 

Due to my looks, guys often place me in either the "average" or the "below average" category. Some guys, however, are willing to date me because they are desperate. They are willing to "settle" for the girl they see as average with the good personality, because they can't get the hot girl they actually idealize.

 

Everybody has an ideal, even you. But only the person themselves can desire that if accepting somebody who is not their ideal is settling.

 

So they dump the average girl they settled for (who was already feeling insecure for being seen as her boyfriend as 'average.')

If a guy ever tells this GF that he thinks she's average, then he's the biggest fool on the planet and should have his dating license revoked.

 

 

Strictly speaking, there is nothing wrong with being superficial. What posters take offense at is your hypocritical attitude. You excuse your own physical standards ("well my ideal is a hot girl, but I'd take an average girl")

That's the way the world works...

 

Few people actually get their ideal, and that doesn't mean they are unhappy with what they got.

[Lonely Ronin]

This is a non-issue. Here's why. If Somedude were hot or had the attitude she wanted, she'd be all over it. I've been rejected by women who ended up dating men who were less compatible than I was with them, and observed even more women who have dated guys they had almost nothing in common with because there was physical attraction.

 

The 'they are superficial' point of view is complete BS, it's a cop out. It lets the person who got rejected blame it on the person who rejected them, and avoid addressing any issues they might have. I'm not talking about a first approach rejection either, as they are almost always physical because it's the easiest criteria to reject someone by. If you have been out on a few dates with someone and then been rejected it was for a reason other than physical attraction.

 

SD has a problem, he is still f'ed up buy a woman he was never in a relationship with, and hasn't talked to in months. That is a big damn issue, he missed or completely ignored many signs that she didn't want a romantic relationship with him. IMO he needs to re-evaluate how he views comparability, because it obviously doesn't jive with the women he wants.

[verhrzn]

My colleague with the V-neck rule was at an office night out a couple of months ago to a karaoki bar. The guy hosting the karaoki was a very good looking guy, good personality, good singer etc but she didn't want anything to do with him because he broke her golden rule. It was absurd.

 

This socialization of women is the problem; books/magazines/movies/ads/talk shows etc all telling women what they should be demanding from men. There's nothing whatsoever about what women should give in return, it's all me me me me. The result is a large number of what I can only describe as pampered, selfish, childlike women with ever more absurd demands and no sense of give and take. I'm beginning to think that some of these absurd rules, like my above example, are nothing more than some kind of status symbol that women use to compete with each other. It's like how much more absurd can I be and still get a man.

 

I'm sure many of the female posters here think that I and some of the other guys here are exaggerating about all of this but the fact is you've never dated women and you don't know what it's like.

 

You're kidding right? There are THOUSANDS of studies that show that women are constantly stressed out by all the things THEY have to be to attract a man. The women's magazines you're citing are pretty much nothing but articles on how to please your man, how to look good for your man, how to act correctly for your man, how to not be a dried-up-career-lady so you can GET a man, etc.

 

To get a man, you have to be attractive, but not any type of attractive, you have to sexy and stylish and mysterious and confident, and you need to wear the right lingerie, and the right type of shoes. You also need to be smart, but not TOO smart or you'll intimidate him. You also need to be independent but not TOO independent, or you'll intimidate him. Don't call him, because then you're needy, unless he's giving signals that he wants you to call him, cause then if you don't, you're playing games.

 

The list goes on, and on, and on. Women are under constant pressure to be perfect. Sexy girlfriends, supportive wife, maternal mothers, constantly balancing home (where women still do the majority of chores and child care) and work (where the majority work just as many hours as men.)

 

We could just as easily turn your argument back on you. "Don't you know how demanding MEN are? You don't know, you've never dated men!" There are just as many men with ridiculous standards....

 

For example, in a recent Guysource article on Jezebel, men were discussing their preference of boobs. The summary? Men require large boobs (not small, and not "comically" big, whatever that is) that are also perky. Except that rarely happens in nature. Physics, y'know? Oh, and you better not just any kind of plastic surgery, or else you have self-esteem/Daddy issues. Except.... how the heck else are you supposed to get big perky boobs EXCEPT through plastic surgery?! And this wasn't one guy who expressed this opinion, but all but one of the guys referenced!

 

So let's see which standard is more unrealistic: guys shouldn't wear turtle necks, or girls should have large perky boobs, but only naturally. Hmmm.

[fortyninethousand322]

You're kidding right? There are THOUSANDS of studies that show that women are constantly stressed out by all the things THEY have to be to attract a man. The women's magazines you're citing are pretty much nothing but articles on how to please your man, how to look good for your man, how to act correctly for your man, how to not be a dried-up-career-lady so you can GET a man, etc.

 

To get a man, you have to be attractive, but not any type of attractive, you have to sexy and stylish and mysterious and confident, and you need to wear the right lingerie, and the right type of shoes. You also need to be smart, but not TOO smart or you'll intimidate him. You also need to be independent but not TOO independent, or you'll intimidate him. Don't call him, because then you're needy, unless he's giving signals that he wants you to call him, cause then if you don't, you're playing games.

 

The list goes on, and on, and on. Women are under constant pressure to be perfect. Sexy girlfriends, supportive wife, maternal mothers, constantly balancing home (where women still do the majority of chores and child care) and work (where the majority work just as many hours as men.)

 

We could just as easily turn your argument back on you. "Don't you know how demanding MEN are? You don't know, you've never dated men!" There are just as many men with ridiculous standards....

 

For example, in a recent Guysource article on Jezebel, men were discussing their preference of boobs. The summary? Men require large boobs (not small, and not "comically" big, whatever that is) that are also perky. Except that rarely happens in nature. Physics, y'know? Oh, and you better not just any kind of plastic surgery, or else you have self-esteem/Daddy issues. Except.... how the heck else are you supposed to get big perky boobs EXCEPT through plastic surgery?! And this wasn't one guy who expressed this opinion, but all but one of the guys referenced!

 

So let's see which standard is more unrealistic: guys shouldn't wear turtle necks, or girls should have large perky boobs, but only naturally. Hmmm.

 

Oh please, women are stressed about being perfect for certain kinds of men. Men who are beneath them however they could care less about.

 

When's the last time any woman has been bent out of shape about an average guy? I'm exempting you from this because you clearly have self-confidence issues (no offense).

[verhrzn]

I have never told a girl that she'll do or that she's average or that I'd settle for her.

 

I simply don't talk about looks with girls and I also don't give compliments based on looks, which may be a bad thing, I'm not sure yet.

 

I've always believed that when a girl knows I like her, she's able to figure out that I also think she's pretty. It's not something that I'd have to actually state. Maybe I'm wrong about that too?

 

If a guy ever tells this GF that he thinks she's average, then he's the biggest fool on the planet and should have his dating license revoked.

 

Few people actually get their ideal, and that doesn't mean they are unhappy with what they got.

 

You don't have to tell her. It comes through in your attitude, in the way you treat her. I dated several guys just like that... I could tell the entire time we were dating that they thought they were "settling," even though they never said directly. It wasn't until after we broke up (when they dumped me for the hot girl they didn't think they could get) that they admitted the truth.

 

I'm not advocating that everyone hold out for their ideal... But most people can appreciate what they have without thinking either "ideal" OR "settling." You see things in such extremes.

 

More importantly, the ONLY reason you'd be happy with an average girl is because it's "better than what you have," aka nothing. In other words, you're selecting her not because you think she's awesome, but because you're desperate. Dating someone in desperation never works. Ever. Period.

[Lonely Ronin]

I'm sure many of the female posters here think that I and some of the other guys here are exaggerating about all of this but the fact is you've never dated women and you don't know what it's like.

 

Well, I'm a guy and have dated many women, but never one like your co-worker. she is a nut job, why do you care what she wants?

[fortyninethousand322]

More importantly, the ONLY reason you'd be happy with an average girl is because it's "better than what you have," aka nothing. In other words, you're selecting her not because you think she's awesome, but because you're desperate. Dating someone in desperation never works. Ever. Period.

 

Perhaps. But as we've seen on this forum, not dating at all is even worse. Several posters have expressed over time a disdain for late bloomers, inexperience, virgins, people who don't know how to be in relationships, etc. Someone who's been unemployed for years probably should be encouraged to settle at least at first otherwise they'll never get anywhere.

 

At some point it has to be worse for SD to have never been in a relationship than his attitude being a turnoff. Sometimes you just have to pick your poison.

[verhrzn]

Oh please, women are stressed about being perfect for certain kinds of men. Men who are beneath them however they could care less about.

 

When's the last time any woman has been bent out of shape about an average guy? I'm exempting you from this because you clearly have self-confidence issues (no offense).

 

I... really don't see your point. That people only care about the opinions of people who are attractive to them? No kidding. Let me ask you this, do you stress out about the opinion of a fat girl? If a fat girl was like," Oh my gosh, I'd never date a guy in a turtleneck," would you think "Women are so superficial and demanding!" or would you think," Pfft, like you should have standards."

 

Furthermore, average women (ya know, the ones dating average men) STILL get stressed out being perfect. All you need to do is compare the dating advice of men compared to women. For men, dating advice nearly stops after the relationship starts. Once a guy attracts a woman, it's pretty much just coasting. For women, not only does she need to attract a guy, but she needs to MAINTAIN the attraction. Thus, the constant pressure to be perfect.

[verhrzn]

Perhaps. But as we've seen on this forum, not dating at all is even worse. Several posters have expressed over time a disdain for late bloomers, inexperience, virgins, people who don't know how to be in relationships, etc. Someone who's been unemployed for years probably should be encouraged to settle at least at first otherwise they'll never get anywhere.

 

At some point it has to be worse for SD to have never been in a relationship than his attitude being a turnoff. Sometimes you just have to pick your poison.

 

Don't be surprised if no female wants to participate in your "Desperation learning curve" experiment. It's selfish and manipulative that you would date someone just to give yourself "experience" or out of some desperation for a relationship.

[ThaWholigan]

You don't have to tell her. It comes through in your attitude, in the way you treat her. I dated several guys just like that... I could tell the entire time we were dating that they thought they were "settling," even though they never said directly. It wasn't until after we broke up (when they dumped me for the hot girl they didn't think they could get) that they admitted the truth.

 

I'm not advocating that everyone hold out for their ideal... But most people can appreciate what they have without thinking either "ideal" OR "settling." You see things in such extremes.

 

More importantly, the ONLY reason you'd be happy with an average girl is because it's "better than what you have," aka nothing. In other words, you're selecting her not because you think she's awesome, but because you're desperate. Dating someone in desperation never works. Ever. Period.

Many men underestimate how much of their true self they are projecting to people - in fact I would go as far as to say that most don't even know what they truly think. I think it's telling that Somedude thinks that people who are positive despite all their hardships are delusional, when I don't think that it's completely farfetched that he himself could possibly be deluded.

 

It's amazing how people act with regards to the experiences in their lives and how they react to them.