Dating sucks...

[zengirl]

Maybe not so much as arranged, but matchmakers, where two people are set up based on how compatible they appear to be, then they go on one or two dates to see if things would work.

 

There are services that do this. A lot of them you meet 'blind'. They generally cost more than online services so may not be in your price range. They do exist, though. Would you truly want to go out with someone you hadn't seen? Would you not care how she looked if an algorithm told you that you might be a good match?

 

But, honestly, the truth is if YOU didn't care about looks (the thing you're wishing women wouldn't do because it 'disqualifies' you), you could probably go out with quite a few women. This goes back to what happened in a thread a little while back where we tried to explain to you that your level of superficiality is holding you back---you want women not to be superficial and base their choices on looks, but surely you base yours on looks!

 

As if hitting the gym harder and getting better style would have any affect.

 

I approach more than one girl a year, but even if I asked out 20, the result would still the same.

 

Somedude, 20 a year is still a low number for a single guy. If you are asking out a few girls A YEAR, and fixating on them, it is no wonder that (a) the rejection feels more palpable, and (b) you are not having success.

 

I'd actually act very different and focus on being charming, giving compliments, planning dates and really trying to impress her etc. Those are things I don't do when I'm platonic friends with a girl.

 

Those things, are pretty much not allowed if I'm just friends with somebody.

 

Why not? What's funny is that except for planning dates (which yes you can't do unless you're dating), the rest are things you actually can do in platonic relationships. I think many of my actual friends (male and female) would say I was charming and give them compliments! I would say you need to take actual interest above and beyond that level if you're flirting.

 

Granted, don't plan a date till you get a date, but you're free to try to impress anyone you want for any reason. You don't need permission to flirt or approach or ask anyone out, and the sooner you realize it's not a big deal if it doesn't work out and start doing it more, the sooner you'll have success.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As an aside: What is up with all the Sodini references on LS lately. This is at least the 3rd thread I've seen that in today!

[TheBigQuestion]

I got rejected plenty when I was single and I didn't really hate dating, nor did I think it sucked. A bit nerve-wracking at times, but there isn't much worth doing in the world that doesn't inspire some nervous energy. I probably didn't hate it because I dated on my own terms, examples of which I've provided on LS ad nauseum.

[Lonely Ronin]

I don't have the genes to get buff so that will never be a way I can attract women with my looks. I'm always going to look like the small guy. And many women don't want that.

 

As for clothes, I'm doing the best with what I can afford. Even then the next step up is wearing overpriced brand name junk.

 

A lot of the women I know don't want buff, they want fit. Most people can get fit, either work out modernity and watch what you eat, or work out hardcore and eat whatever you want.

 

when it comes to clothes a lot of guys think they need to go gq, when all they really need to do is switch it up. in other words don't go to old navy and by the same shirt in 6 different colors. Thankfully mens clothes even good looking stuff is cheap.

[ShannonMI]

That's kind of mean what you said. Not very like you...

Perhaps I worded it wrong or I should have never suggested it because I can see how it would hurt someone's feelings. I meant no offense. The poster I was posting to said he dreads the rejection he thinks he will get because of his herpes. He hates the idea of having to tell potential partners. I was merely suggesting the site so maybe dating wouldn't be so difficult for him. My bad.

[somedude81]

Holy crap Batman.

 

Please, inform us on WHAT you are going through and how much worse it is than anyone else.

 

Overcome it, whatever "it" is, and don't let it dictate your life.

Most people don't go throughout their lives having never been in a relationship.

I hope you are paying attention to most of the threads under the "Dating" heading on this site, because I there are a great many people in your shoes. When you are lonely and yearning, it looks like everyone else in the world has what you want, but that is definitely not the case.

As far as I can tell, there are about four guys in my shoes. None of them seem all that happy.

 

There are services that do this. A lot of them you meet 'blind'. They generally cost more than online services so may not be in your price range. They do exist, though.

A service like that wouldn't work for me, mainly because I'd have to wonder about what women would use it and then the cost would be an issue.

 

I'm talking about if it was an already established part of our culture and it was something that just happened when people came of age.

 

 

Would you truly want to go out with someone you hadn't seen? Would you not care how she looked if an algorithm told you that you might be a good match?

 

But, honestly, the truth is if YOU didn't care about looks (the thing you're wishing women wouldn't do because it 'disqualifies' you), you could probably go out with quite a few women. This goes back to what happened in a thread a little while back where we tried to explain to you that your level of superficiality is holding you back---you want women not to be superficial and base their choices on looks, but surely you base yours on looks!

Still going on with that superficial kick I see

 

This may be news to you, but I'm nowhere near as superficial as you think I am. I'd be more than happy with an average girl, as long as she's not actually ugly or fat, that's fine. And the vast majority of young women aren't. I just want an ordinary girl.

 

Somedude, 20 a year is still a low number for a single guy. If you are asking out a few girls A YEAR, and fixating on them, it is no wonder that (a) the rejection feels more palpable, and (b) you are not having success.

Asking out 20 girls a year is a low number? Are you serious?

 

First of all, if you are suggesting I ask out girls within five minutes of meeting them, I don't do that. I prefer to talk to somebody a few times (different days) before I ask them out, and I can't see how I can possibly meet enough girls in a year to get to know 20 and ask them out.

 

Why not? What's funny is that except for planning dates (which yes you can't do unless you're dating), the rest are things you actually can do in platonic relationships. I think many of my actual friends (male and female) would say I was charming and give them compliments! I would say you need to take actual interest above and beyond that level if you're flirting.

Honestly, I don't know. It just seemed like it wasn't appropriate to tell my female friends that they were pretty and looked good or to go out of my way to show that I care about them. Basically show somebody that I like them. And when a girl has already established that she's not interested, I get the feeling that doing those things would just make her mad.

 

Granted, don't plan a date till you get a date, but you're free to try to impress anyone you want for any reason. You don't need permission to flirt or approach or ask anyone out, and the sooner you realize it's not a big deal if it doesn't work out and start doing it more, the sooner you'll have success.

It is a big deal to me. Simply because every time I've tried it's gone wrong. I've only ever had negative experiences with girls so I'm very wary.

 

Honestly, I just want to get past this trying to get a girl phase and just see what it takes to make a relationship work. I need to move on to the next step.

[zengirl]

A service like that wouldn't work for me, mainly because I'd have to wonder about what women would use it

 

Ding, ding, ding! That was part of my point. You wouldn't want to date women who you didn't know what they looked like, didn't know if they'd interest you, and who had trouble dating the traditional way. But somehow women are what makes dating 'difficult' even though your criteria doesn't really differ from the criteria (you imagine) of those who reject you.

 

I'm talking about if it was an already established part of our culture and it was something that just happened when people came of age.

 

Well, without choice in the matter, using an algorithm to find matches and find a mate. . . that's dangerously close to societies in dystopian novels. Creepy.

 

Still going on with that superficial kick I see

 

This may be news to you, but I'm nowhere near as superficial as you think I am. I'd be more than happy with an average girl, as long as she's not actually ugly or fat, that's fine. And the vast majority of young women aren't. I just want an ordinary girl.

 

My main point was: You want to judge them on their looks but say women are the problem for judging you for your looks. Doesn't usually roll that way. There are women who put less emphasis on looks, but they don't want men who think primarily about the way they look.

 

As to 'how superficial you are' -- we already had that discussion. I think you're more superficial than you think, and I will assert again that your expectations of success (how hot a girl you think you should be able to expect to get) does not make you less superficial; in fact, it makes you more superficial that you think it's really about looks and that you would consider a girl "average" because of her looks. The level of which you are willing to settle was not the point; it's the whole mindset that's superficial. But you didn't get that in the other thread, after WAY more posts, so I guess you'll miss it now too.

 

Asking out 20 girls a year is a low number? Are you serious?

 

Yes. I am serious.

 

First of all, if you are suggesting I ask out girls within five minutes of meeting them, I don't do that. I prefer to talk to somebody a few times (different days) before I ask them out, and I can't see how I can possibly meet enough girls in a year to get to know 20 and ask them out.

 

Well, your preference is not working for you. I'm suggesting you try new things, new outlets to meet people, and assert yourself more obviously in the dating process, and stop fearing rejection. You're just making rejection worse by becoming more and more attached before you even make a move.

 

I suggest you ask a girl out whenever you get the inclination you might like to go out with her---whenever that is. Don't plot and plan and hem and haw over when or whether or how to get her to go out with her---just be decisive. You'll get rejected. A lot. And rejection will get easier. Truly. And someday, there will be success.

 

Honestly, I don't know. It just seemed like it wasn't appropriate to tell my female friends that they were pretty and looked good or to go out of my way to show that I care about them. Basically show somebody that I like them. And when a girl has already established that she's not interested, I get the feeling that doing those things would just make her mad.

 

If a girl is not interested in you romantically and you have expressed romantic feelings, yes, that friendship is tenuous and awkward. If it is awkward when you compliment a girl and the "romance talk" has never come up but you DO have feelings for her, yes, she's probably picking up on that, and it's an issue. But you're 29 years old. "Show somebody you like them." Seriously?

 

If you like a woman, you shouldn't be buzzing around her---you should be actively and honestly asserting your interest and asking her out. Many will say no; that's life. But what you are doing isn't working. And it wouldn't work for anyone! This is not how successful guys date. Really!

[ThaWholigan]

I've never properly dated so I cannot say that it sucks. To be honest, it seems like fun

[wezol]

Most people don't go throughout their lives having never been in a relationship.

 

And who's fault is that?

[Sanman]

Dating certainly can suck, but it can be fun too depending on how you look at it. I certainly would not give up my relationship for it, but when you have a good number of options there is a bit of a thrill to it. The dry periods are bad and there are some crappy people out there, but a lot what makes dating so bad is worrying about every little thing. I've learned to let those things go and just be myself when I go out. I like to look nice, but don't go out of my way. As the guy, I get to pick the venue fairly often. That means getting to try new things and see new places.

 

As for somedude, is there even a point to engaging him anymore. I can tell you what he does wrong, but he refuses to change. He won't ask out women after a single conversation, he won't increase his numbers, and he won't get past his own superficiality to realize the world does not owe him something. You get the women you manage to entice and catch. If he can only get women that he deems below him, he is likely aiming to date women out of his league.

[fortyninethousand322]

And who's fault is that?

 

Why does it always have to be someone's fault? Sometimes things just happen. Some people just aren't naturally able to be good with women.

 

SD posted a picture with a girl he was interested in once. He seemed like a decent enough looking guy and she didn't seem out of his league. Maybe I'm a bad judge of these things so who knows.

[wezol]

Why does it always have to be someone's fault? Sometimes things just happen. Some people just aren't naturally able to be good with women.

 

SD posted a picture with a girl he was interested in once. He seemed like a decent enough looking guy and she didn't seem out of his league. Maybe I'm a bad judge of these things so who knows.

 

He's full of excuses and self pity. Women don't like a pessimistic "poor pitiful me" guy.

 

He has also been given LOADS of advice, and heeded none of it.

 

At this point, it's on him.

[binny]

I'd be more than happy with an average girl, as long as she's not actually ugly or fat, that's fine. And the vast majority of young women aren't. I just want an ordinary girl.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I would be upset if a boyfriend thought I was ordinary/average. I know I am no supermodel but come on.. why would you date/marry someone who you thought was "ordinary"! I would feel like he settled for me or something..

 

From all the posts I've seen from you SD, I would recommend that you change your attitude. No woman wants to feel like you settled for her and you think she is just average!

 

Anyway.. Back to the OP.. I've not really been on any dates, but I agree dating does suck. I've kind of given up.. I hate being judged and peoples motives these days are questionable. It is sometimes so difficult to tell if a guy actually likes you or is just playing games.

[daphne]

Jobaba,

 

I wonder if women even realize this is the only reason most men commit? If we could easily find women to date us, lots and lots of women, without rejection, speaking for myself, and I think all men, we would all be single forever. None of us would become boyfriends or husbands.

 

And honestly, that's a pretty sad situation, that a guy commits not because she is so perfect for him, but, rather, she gets him out of the rejection-filled world of dating. Honestly, I sincerely believe this how it is for 90%+ of all men.

 

I think I'm going to go shoot myself now.

 

Although that doesn't explain why so many guys I've been in long terms with have wanted to get married.

[Negative Nancy]

But, honestly, the truth is if YOU didn't care about looks (the thing you're wishing women wouldn't do because it 'disqualifies' you)

 

[...]

 

your level of superficiality is holding you back---you want women not to be superficial and base their choices on looks, but surely you base yours on looks!

 

You want to judge them on their looks but say women are the problem for judging you for your looks.

 

very accurate, i've been telling him that in other threads, but words like these tend to fall on deaf ears

 

 

I would be upset if a boyfriend thought I was ordinary/average. I know I am no supermodel but come on.. why would you date/marry someone who you thought was "ordinary"! I would feel like he settled for me or something..

 

From all the posts I've seen from you SD, I would recommend that you change your attitude. No woman wants to feel like you settled for her and you think she is just average!

 

this hits the nail on the head. a side effect of this would also be that men who feel like they "settled" are more prone to cheating when/if their perfect 10 hits on them. they would either cheat on you or dump you in heartbeat without even blinking an eye. that's why i feel it's important to be the personal 10 for your partner. of course no one's gonna be the 10 to everyone, but your partner should at least feel like you are more than just worth "settling for" and only chose you because his REAL desired object of desire did not reciprocate.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Negative Nancy

[somedude81]

Amazing.

 

First I'm getting crap because people think I'm superficial. When I try to defend myself saying that I don't need a hot girl, guess what, more crap.

[Negative Nancy]

I wonder if women even realize this is the only reason most men commit? If we could easily find women to date us, lots and lots of women, without rejection, speaking for myself, and I think all men, we would all be single forever. None of us would become boyfriends or husbands.

 

And honestly, that's a pretty sad situation, that a guy commits not because she is so perfect for him, but, rather, she gets him out of the rejection-filled world of dating. Honestly, I sincerely believe this how it is for 90%+ of all men.

 

This is the truth and just confirms what I've been thinking all along about men...what a sad statement but the truth is better than waking up one day and finding yourself being dumped or cheated on.

 

there is no love btween a man and a woman, its all about what you can do for me

 

"we all use each other and call it 'love'..."

[Lonely Ronin]

Seriously, what's wrong with you? It seems like you think all guys are one step above gorillas.

 

This is the truth and just confirms what I've been thinking all along about men...what a sad statement but the truth is better than waking up one day and finding yourself being dumped or cheated on.

[somedude81]

Seriously, what's wrong with you? It seems like you think all guys are one step above gorillas.

Look at what her ideal man is...

[plowguy1]

 

 

 

"we all use each other and call it 'love'..."

 

 

Yes we do, I will agree...

[zengirl]

Amazing.

 

First I'm getting crap because people think I'm superficial. When I try to defend myself saying that I don't need a hot girl, guess what, more crap.

 

The huh? You don't think you can GET a hot girl so you'll settle for less. How is that less superficial?

 

Dating certainly can suck, but it can be fun too depending on how you look at it. I certainly would not give up my relationship for it, but when you have a good number of options there is a bit of a thrill to it. The dry periods are bad and there are some crappy people out there, but a lot what makes dating so bad is worrying about every little thing. I've learned to let those things go and just be myself when I go out. I like to look nice, but don't go out of my way. As the guy, I get to pick the venue fairly often. That means getting to try new things and see new places.

 

As for somedude, is there even a point to engaging him anymore. I can tell you what he does wrong, but he refuses to change. He won't ask out women after a single conversation, he won't increase his numbers, and he won't get past his own superficiality to realize the world does not owe him something. You get the women you manage to entice and catch. If he can only get women that he deems below him, he is likely aiming to date women out of his league.

 

I actually agree with all of this. Though I almost always picked many of the places on dates; never knew that was a 'guy' thing. Guys I went out with always asked me about types of places and we sorted it out together. Anyway, dating was fun, but marriage is better, IMO. But I never thought dating really "sucked" --and yes, you're likely right about much about SD. I'm silly to try.

[somedude81]

The huh? You don't think you can GET a hot girl so you'll settle for less. How is that less superficial?

OK, you're going to have to explain to me what superficial means because I simply don't get it.

 

I thought it meant only caring about what somebody looks like on the outside.

 

But apparently it doesn't, and if I say that I don't need a hot girl and can be perfectly happy with an average girl, I'm still superficial.

 

So please explain it to me.

[zengirl]

OK, you're going to have to explain to me what superficial means because I simply don't get it.

 

I thought it meant only caring about what somebody looks like on the outside.

 

But apparently it doesn't, and if I say that I don't need a hot girl and can be perfectly happy with an average girl, I'm still superficial.

 

So please explain it to me.

 

It means only relating on a shallow level, only caring about the surface, etc. You might be 'perfectly happy' with an average girl because you believe yourself average and will settle for that, but the fact that what you fixate on first are looks (hot, average, or whatever) when discussing relationships---you even fixate first on your own looks, asserting they're your problem. You constantly point out you'll be fine with whoever, as long as she isn't fat or ugly. You talk A LOT about looks. You obviously care a lot about looks. The fact that you've resigned yourself to a life without a hot girl does not make you noble.

[Lonely Ronin]

It means only relating on a shallow level, only caring about the surface, etc. You might be 'perfectly happy' with an average girl because you believe yourself average and will settle for that, but the fact that what you fixate on first are looks (hot, average, or whatever) when discussing relationships---you even fixate first on your own looks, asserting they're your problem. You constantly point out you'll be fine with whoever, as long as she isn't fat or ugly. You talk A LOT about looks. You obviously care a lot about looks. The fact that you've resigned yourself to a life without a hot girl does not make you noble.

 

^ what she said....

[Sanman]

I actually agree with all of this. Though I almost always picked many of the places on dates; never knew that was a 'guy' thing. Guys I went out with always asked me about types of places and we sorted it out together. Anyway, dating was fun, but marriage is better, IMO. But I never thought dating really "sucked" --and yes, you're likely right about much about SD. I'm silly to try.

 

I usually made a few suggestions and girl picked from them. Very few women threw out ideas first.

[somedude81]

As for somedude, is there even a point to engaging him anymore. I can tell you what he does wrong, but he refuses to change. He won't ask out women after a single conversation

There was a thread here a while ago, and many if not all women said they would not go out with a guy they just met. So how is me not asking out girls after a single conversation something I'm doing wrong?

 

 

he won't get past his own superficiality

Now it's a guy saying I'm superficial. Care to explain how I am, while most everybody else isn't?

 

You get the women you manage to entice and catch. If he can only get women that he deems below him, he is likely aiming to date women out of his league.

I highly doubt I'm trying to get girls out of my league, unless my league is ugly fat girls, that are far below average.

It means only relating on a shallow level, only caring about the surface, etc.

You might be 'perfectly happy' with an average girl because you believe yourself average and will settle for that, but the fact that what you fixate on first are looks (hot, average, or whatever) when discussing relationships---you even fixate first on your own looks, asserting they're your problem. You constantly point out you'll be fine with whoever, as long as she isn't fat or ugly. You talk A LOT about looks. You obviously care a lot about looks. The fact that you've resigned yourself to a life without a hot girl does not make you noble.

I care about much more than just the surface.

 

That aside, it's almost as if you are saying because I have physical standards, I'm superficial. If that's the case, everybody is superficial, yes even you zengirl, unless you'd date anybody when you were single.

 

Yes I talk about looks a lot, and that's because I believe that women are very superficial and they are rejecting me based on my looks alone.

 

And last time I checked, I'm not ugly, fat, or grotesque in any way. I'm just shorter than average, other than that I'm pefecily ordinary. And any women who can't accept that is the one who is superficial.