Dating sucks...

[Cypress25]

IMO, dating sucks because women have a say in it.

 

I at least wish there were arranged marriages or matchmakers in western culture.

 

Another idea would be to get to know a girl fairly well. Then talk to her parents and explain to them what you want. If they like you, they would then talk to her and encourage her to date you or at least give you a chance.

 

Even in cultures where arranged marriages are the norm, women still have a say in it. India is the first example that comes to mind; parents may select a husband for their daughter, but she can still say no. She doesn't have to marry him.

 

If a woman doesn't choose you of her own free will, forcing her to date you wouldn't make you happy. At first it might seem like you're getting what you want, but deep down you would know the truth: she doesn't want you and she never did.

 

Or why are they dressing up to the nines to go to work?

 

To look more professional, probably. I don't know where you work, but in my line of work, I can't just show up at the office in jeans and a T-shirt, with no makeup. I try to look like a professional, competent adult at work, otherwise I'll never be taken seriously. You're paranoid if you think women are prowling for men every time they dress nicely or put on makeup.

 

My life has basically been, if women can say no, they will.

 

And if women want to say yes, they will. Forcing them to say yes, when they want to say no, will not solve your problem.

 

Right now, I feel that I'm being screwed over because women won't give me a chance. I'm never allowed the opportunity to prove myself. They base too much on physical attraction and 'chemistry' while none of that has any basis if they could actually be a good partner or not.

 

But some women have given you a chance. You've been on dates. You've spent a lot of time with women, as platonic friends. They've gotten to know you pretty well. If they still don't want to date you after that, what then?

 

And actually, physical attraction and chemistry are important. That's the difference between a platonic friendship and a sexual relationship. You can have a friendship without attraction and chemistry, but you can't have a romantic relationship without them. That's why you only go after women that you find attractive.

 

Yet we see all the time women who complain that some guy they're sleeping with has been using her for sex and how can she keep him around, etc. Or some guys is cheating or abusing her and she still thinks he's a good guy and can't let him go. I'm starting to think maybe these stories are just people trolling or making up stories for their own amusement.

 

It really doesn't happen as often as these forums make it seem. People who are in happy relationships don't post on forums complaining about it, so you never read about them. As for the women who are sleeping with guys who won't commit, they're being foolish. Sex is not the way to keep a guy around. They'll learn; some people are just slow learners.

[PlumPrincess]

You act like it is something I can consciously do.

 

Either way, based on my past experiences, hitting on more girls isn't going to change anything. It's stupid to think that next time things will be different.

 

BTW, are you suggesting I should make a girl my friend first then ask her out, or were you being sarcastic?

The moment you graduate and enter the job market, whether you like it or not, you will have to learn to deal with rejection or you can prepare yourself to be on the dole.

[fortyninethousand322]

It really doesn't happen as often as these forums make it seem. People who are in happy relationships don't post on forums complaining about it, so you never read about them. As for the women who are sleeping with guys who won't commit, they're being foolish. Sex is not the way to keep a guy around. They'll learn; some people are just slow learners.

 

But sex is the way to keep a woman around.

 

And yes some people will be slow learners, but some slow learners end up jaded while others end up as the 30 year old virgin (or close to it). Given the choices I'd rather be in the former category than the latter.

[fortyninethousand322]

The moment you graduate and enter the job market, whether you like it or not, you will have to learn to deal with rejection or you can prepare yourself to be on the dole.

 

The whole thing is going to collapse so there's not going to be a "dole" to be on. People will just end up digging in trash cans for food or resorting to cannibalism.

[somedude81]

I was being sarcastic. NEVER make a girl a friend with the purpose of dating her later. It works in exactly .001% of cases.

Yeah I know that already. I haven't tried to do that in about four years.

Again, you say "based on your past experiences." Your past experiences of... hitting on multiple girls? Because that would be the only experience that is relevant. Unless you have actually tried hitting on multiple girls for a prolonged period of time, you DO NOT know how it will turn out.

 

You can "thicken your skin" consciously by not taking the rejections so personally. There's tons of information out there for guys on how to roll with the punches. Try some of those techniques, ask out numerous girls. Only AFTER you have failed at this can you say with certainty that technique doesn't work.

Because I have hit on multiple girls. Sure it's not 20 girls a month. But I've asked out every girl I've ever liked.

 

I've read lots of material on how to thicken my skin, it doesn't work for me because of the depression. I see every rejection as an insult, saying that I'm not good enough.

Even in cultures where arranged marriages are the norm, women still have a say in it. India is the first example that comes to mind; parents may select a husband for their daughter, but she can still say no. She doesn't have to marry him.

Still sounds better than things are over here.

 

If a woman doesn't choose you of her own free will, forcing her to date you wouldn't make you happy. At first it might seem like you're getting what you want, but deep down you would know the truth: she doesn't want you and she never did.

But who's to say that things won't change once she gets to know me better? And I'll be in a situation where I can try my best.

 

And if women want to say yes, they will. Forcing them to say yes, when they want to say no, will not solve your problem.

My whole point is that they don't want to say yes...

 

But some women have given you a chance. You've been on dates. You've spent a lot of time with women, as platonic friends. They've gotten to know you pretty well. If they still don't want to date you after that, what then?

Actually no.

 

I have been on two, first dates with girls.

 

In the other situations where I spent time with girls as platonic friends, they've already made up their minds that nothing would ever happen and I was not permitted to 'woo' them. That's not exactly what I would call a chance.

 

And actually, physical attraction and chemistry are important. That's the difference between a platonic friendship and a sexual relationship. You can have a friendship without attraction and chemistry, but you can't have a romantic relationship without them. That's why you only go after women that you find attractive.

I know physical attraction is important, it's the primary reason why I'm still single. It's the reason why women never give me a real chance. A girl takes one look at me, decides that she isn't attracted to me, but she'll gladly be my friend.

The moment you graduate and enter the job market, whether you like it or not, you will have to learn to deal with rejection or you can prepare yourself to be on the dole.

I already know what it's like to be on the job market. I've been working for over 10 years. Now it's not a career, but I know what it's like to be turned down by companies.

 

It's nowhere near the same thing as being turned down by women.

[Cypress25]

But sex is the way to keep a woman around.

 

What? No it's not. I don't know where you're getting that. Maybe some women base their relationships entirely on sex, but they're in the minority. Personally, I decide how I feel about a man before we have sex.

 

But who's to say that things won't change once she gets to know me better?

 

In the other situations where I spent time with girls as platonic friends, they've already made up their minds that nothing would ever happen and I was not permitted to 'woo' them. That's not exactly what I would call a chance.

 

Do you see how these two statements contradict each other? First you say a woman might change her mind once she gets to know you better. Then you say that the women who have gotten to know you better never changed their minds about you. Tell me, what would you have done differently if you had been permitted to "woo" those women? Because in my experience, men don't wait for permission to flirt with girls they like. They just go ahead and flirt, and the girl either likes what she sees or she doesn't. If she spends time with him, she's giving him a chance. If she likes what she sees on a platonic level, she'll allow it to advance to a romantic level. If she doesn't like what she sees on a platonic level, she won't let it advance beyond that.

 

It's about getting from one stage to the next. Women decide that they're attracted to a man before getting physical with him, not after. I think men do the same thing with women. You get your chance to "woo" a woman before you do anything physical with her. That's how it works for all men; you're not the only one.

[somedude81]

Do you see how these two statements contradict each other? First you say a woman might change her mind once she gets to know you better. Then you say that the women who have gotten to know you better never changed their minds about you. Tell me, what would you have done differently if you had been permitted to "woo" those women? Because in my experience, men don't wait for permission to flirt with girls they like. They just go ahead and flirt,

I'd actually act very different and focus on being charming, giving compliments, planning dates and really trying to impress her etc. Those are things I don't do when I'm platonic friends with a girl.

 

Those things, are pretty much not allowed if I'm just friends with somebody.

and the girl either likes what she sees or she doesn't. If she spends time with him, she's giving him a chance. If she likes what she sees on a platonic level, she'll allow it to advance to a romantic level. If she doesn't like what she sees on a platonic level, she won't let it advance beyond that.

I don't agree with that.

 

Just spending time with a guy is not giving him a chance if her mind is closed off. And then again, I'm not trying to woo her because I'm aware of the situation.

 

It's about getting from one stage to the next. Women decide that they're attracted to a man before getting physical with him, not after. I think men do the same thing with women. You get your chance to "woo" a woman before you do anything physical with her. That's how it works for all men; you're not the only one.

See, I'm never given the chance to actually woo somebody.

 

If I don't pass the physical test, which I never do, things stop right there.

 

That's why I'm so frustrated and said what I did.

[Cypress25]

I'd actually act very different and focus on being charming, giving compliments, planning dates and really trying to impress her etc. Those are things I don't do when I'm platonic friends with a girl.

 

Those things, are pretty much not allowed if I'm just friends with somebody.

 

Why are those things not allowed if you're just friends with the girl? What's stopping you from being charming, giving compliments, and trying to impress her? You don't need her permission to do any of those things. Just go ahead and do it, if you think it will get you a date.

 

See, I'm never given the chance to actually woo somebody.

 

If I don't pass the physical test, which I never do, things stop right there.

 

You've been given the chance, you just didn't take it. Things stop right there because you give up and stop trying. Apparently you think you need to go on a date with the girl before you start flirting with her. That's backwards. Be charming and flirty from the beginning, that's how you get a date.

[Badsingularity]

You act like it is something I can consciously do.

 

You can. You have control over your own brain and thoughts.

 

It's stupid to think that next time things will be different.

 

Again, you are assuming that all women and all situations are the same. They are not.

[Badsingularity]

I used to be like you and think if I did the right things and found the right woman, it would work out. I don't think that way anymore. You can't find a girl and have her be "in love with you" for you. It's not in their nature "A woman is as loyal as her options".

 

A little tip (although I expect you will not believe me).

 

If you truly believe that you are a womans best option. Then you are.

 

If she doesn't pick you. Then she doesn't have a good picker.

[anaksunamun34]

ure right.. i hate dating. thats why i wanted to marry someone .. but it also sucks

[Soxfaninfl]

I'm miss being married too. Dating does suck. I've had two failed relationships since my divorce. I'm taking a break because in frustrated.

[Woggle]

Are women really as bad as plowguy says?

[Cypress25]

Are women really as bad as plowguy says?

 

Of course not, that's why most people ignored him completely. Leave it to you to zero in on the one guy in a 5-page thread who talks about women like that.

[updown]

i think dating sucks too!

[Badsingularity]

Are women really as bad as plowguy says?

 

There is some truth in a few things he said, but most of it is just jaded talk from someone who does not truly understand women.

 

A simple trick to keep your woman happy or to attract women to you and not worry about them leaving you.

 

Be awesome:cool:

 

No women wants to leave an awesome man...and you don't have to be rich to be awesome.

[plowguy1]

There is some truth in a few things he said, but most of it is just jaded talk from someone who does not truly understand women.

 

A simple trick to keep your woman happy or to attract women to you and not worry about them leaving you.

 

Be awesome:cool:

 

No women wants to leave an awesome man...and you don't have to be rich to be awesome.

 

 

Yeah I'm jaded I know. If I was awesome my wife wouldn't be with another man, and my kids would be growing up together. I thought being a good man was enough, what the hell was I thinking...

[plowguy1]

Are women really as bad as plowguy says?

 

not all, but most. sounds like you got a good one Woggle, hope you can stay awesome enough

[Badsingularity]

not all, but most. sounds like you got a good one Woggle, hope you can stay awesome enough

 

You can be an awesome man.

 

There is nothing wrong with being a good man. Matter of fact, most women want a good man.

 

To keep a woman happy though you also need to be a leader, have a strong belief in yourself and your abilities, be loving, affectionate, kind, strong, caring, and a little bit of a bad boy.

 

Unfortunately, most men are never taught these things. They have to be learned. It's not easy, but it can be done.

 

Read some of my older post on this subject for more insight into how women work.

[Lostinlife4now]

Warning: rant...

 

I've been in a relationship for a while now and managed to stay off this website more than usual.

 

This has made me realize ... dating sucks.

 

God ... judging people and being judged. Physical cutoffs and standards. How much do you make? :sick:

 

Playing games.

 

I remember starting a thread about hitting on random women every two weeks to build up your rejection tolerance. Man, how lame that someone would have to do that just to find someone they have a personal connection with.

 

If you enjoy dating, you're probably one of those people who goes through multiple people without ever getting rejected. I can see how it's an enjoyable game for those people.

 

To me, the whole game sucks. I don't want to DATE ever again.

 

And that my friend is the REASON I DON'T DATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[plowguy1]

You can be an awesome man.

 

There is nothing wrong with being a good man. Matter of fact, most women want a good man.

 

To keep a woman happy though you also need to be a leader, have a strong belief in yourself and your abilities, be loving, affectionate, kind, strong, caring, and a little bit of a bad boy.

 

Unfortunately, most men are never taught these things. They have to be learned. It's not easy, but it can be done.

 

Read some of my older post on this subject for more insight into how women work.

 

You are right, I was never taught these things. and its hard to learn now. I will look at your posts, and thank you for your kind posts. as you can tell the rollercoaster has been a little rough lately. after 2.5 years... ughh

[Els]

The mental image I get of your perfect dating world is one where a man drives to a store to browse the aisle of cages so he can pick out a woman to take home, like he would a puppy. Do you really believe that would be a better world to live in, just because it would serve your needs (and to hel-l with everyone else's)?

 

Of course I do. How could I not?

 

 

Why do you feel the Russian mail-order brides are extreme, then? It's the same thing. Or you could take a trip to a very poor village in, say, Cambodia, and offer a green card to the best-looking willing woman. At least then they would still have SOME say in it.

 

You can't just say things like 'I wish women had no say in who their partners are so I can get one', and blame it on loneliness. Honest to god, SD, you're beginning to sound like you're this close to being the next Sodini. And I'm just thanking my lucky stars that I'll be way over the ocean when that happens.

[Els]

Yup. Your example is pretty accurate although from my end, I'd be getting shot down for dates, or dealing with aloof dates if I could get them.

 

The friends first approach is so natural and right for a man of my personality, but it never worked. One of the main reasons for my sourness towards the game.

 

We'll see what happens the next time I'm single. But I'm not looking forward to it.

 

Oh, awesome, I didn't know that. Congratulations, then.

[wezol]

You obviously don't understand what I'm going through.

 

Holy crap Batman.

 

Please, inform us on WHAT you are going through and how much worse it is than anyone else.

 

Overcome it, whatever "it" is, and don't let it dictate your life.

[Ranchero44]

I just can't accept that. I've been alone for far too long and I've always wanted a girl in my life. And I feel that I'm missing out on many things that everybody else gets to experience in life.

 

I hope you are paying attention to most of the threads under the "Dating" heading on this site, because I there are a great many people in your shoes. When you are lonely and yearning, it looks like everyone else in the world has what you want, but that is definitely not the case.

 

Now, people have a lot more choices, and a lot more freedom. Dating and marriage are all about "love." All about attraction.... but love and attraction ARE chaotic and potentially destructive emotions. There is great promise of happiness, but there's great risk of loss.

 

That's the price of admission for modern dating. You can't have the benefits (getting to pick someone you find attractive) without taking the lumps as well (they might not be attracted to you.) The choice is to either live with it, or give it up.

 

Me myself, I am leaning towards giving up. It's just gotten too painful. One of my exes recently started dating a good friend of mine, and seeing them together is like a knife in the gut. He was such an incredible jerk to me, but he treats her like a queen (it doesn't help that TWO of my other exes also had huge crushes on her while dating me.) I'm just never gonna be one of those girls that guys are attracted to; a romantic relationship just isn't in the cards for all of us.

 

I agree; we place such a high premium on erotic attraction that dating is kind of like a huge, glittery shopping mall. Dating is yet another form of consumerism. We make our lists, and if our date has every quality on that list, but you like to play tennis and he doesn't, BAM! Dealbreaker! It's like there is a sense of entitlement on the dating scene; I am going to judge everything YOU bring to the table but not going to worry at all about what I have to offer.

 

I'm sorry about your situation. That is terrible. I often feel just like you--THAT girl that guys are never attracted to. I know how much it hurts. Hang in there.

 

 

If you enjoy dating, you're probably one of those people who goes through multiple people without ever getting rejected. I can see how it's an enjoyable game for those people.

 

To me, the whole game sucks. I don't want to DATE ever again.

 

You hit the nail on the head jobaba; people who enjoy dating are the ones who don't get blown off, faded away on, used for sex and then discarded, strung along for years only to be told they weren't good enough, used to make the person on the rebound feel better about being dumped, abruptly ignored and disappeared on after a month or more of dating, used as a "project" to be improved upon, and so on and so forth. Wow. I think I may have just covered 95% of what happens in the world of dating. Who in their right mind would want to get on board with this?!?