Dating sucks...

[Els]

Edit: Meh, you're right, I'll spare myself the effort.

Edited February 26, 2012 by Elswyth

[Eclypse]

I have looked at your plight with a sympathetic eye SD. If it weren't for a dose of luck I could have still been in your position. The fact is that dating is very difficult in this world, especially as a man. But you really shouldn't have the mindset that the reason you are failing is because women have a say in dating. Also personally I would feel offended if someone was having conversations with my parents about me and then they would encourage me to date that particular person. I think most people would prefer to date someone that they choose.

 

The fact is that you've had a hard time with the ladies and if you keep thinking like you do you then you will stay as you are now. I can't think of many women who think like that. You're evidently doing something wrong... and it's up to you to try fix it.

 

You do mention that you are wondering what the alternatives to modern dating are. Well you could always go onto one of those Ukrainian mail order bride websites (or whatever equivalent tickles your fancy) and work from there. I'm sure those women wouldn't care what you looked like.

[plowguy1]

SD You're right, there is something wrong. Or maybe it's just the natural order. It's like Tom Leykis said "women get the richest (or most alpha) guy they can attract, and men get the hottest woman they can afford). I've recently woken up from my fairytale, and it's time you do too. there is no love btween a man and a woman, its all about what you can do for me (moreso with women). family love is between you and your kids, siblings, parents. women will never see you as family. start to show any weakness, and they will start making their exit plan. Dude consider yourself lucky, you and I are not alpha, for whatever reason. (genetics, upbringing,etc.), We dont have women throwing themselves at us, but You dont pay child support, dont have to deal with an ex because of said kids. You can do whatever you want!

Go spend some time in family court, or just read the divorce and separation forums here. look at the facts, half of all marriages end in divorce right? (75% initiated by women), the other 50% how many do you think are happy? as long as these guys are reading her mind and not showing any weakness (emotional, physical, mental), and her options are limited, she'll stay. lets say she puts down the candy,and gets off her azz and loses 30 lbs (gets options, now has the body to attract the alpha) what do you think happens to the love? It was a mirage. there a few good women out there but do you really want to dig for treasure in a mine field?

I know you want a good relation ship with an attractive woman, sorry dude you're invisible to her, just like the fat girls are invisible to you, shes looking for the guy all of the other women want, and even after shes married she'll STILL be looking.

I know its a hard pill to swallow but, its true. I'm 46 and just learning it. When I look back on all the things I could have done but didnt because I wanted to be a family man (travel, hobbies, education) THAT sucks. You might even find one, be really happy for a while. but do you know what it takes to keep a woman happy? really? and for what? regular sex? (bwa hahaha!) maybe some meals thrown at you, or maybe this gem, "so you wont die alone"? dude we all die alone.

You're missing out on very little and avoiding a WHOLE lot of pain. stop thinking about dating, focus on your career, and find out what you like to do. I guarantee women will then be interested in you, if you want to, go out have fun, but DO NOT marry. If you ever feel like you want to, go back to that family court, find some poor sap that just got destroyed, buy him a beer and ask him if he ever felt like you. You really can have a great life, it just won't be the one you thought, that one is a myth from a bygone era. It was possible for your grand parents, and it still is today for 5% of men. (ironically they will cheat on their wives, who will gladly take them back). I know I'll get flamed for over generalizing, I know there are exceptions, but you're wasting a lot of time waiting for that winning lotto ticket. Dude, the odds are the same. You gotta wake up. I only check out this forum for ****z and giggles, to see how women think. I used to be like you and think if I did the right things and found the right woman, it would work out. I don't think that way anymore. You can't find a girl and have her be "in love with you" for you. It's not in their nature "A woman is as loyal as her options". read that again. One more time! Again maybe you could find someone and be happy for a while, but life will beat you up, and you'd like to think she'll be there for you, your safe haven. No she wants you to be HER safe haven only, show any weakness and she'll be gone, or she'll see she has no options and stay but despise you. Either way you lose

 

google MGTOW and take care fellow nice guy

Edited February 26, 2012 by plowguy1
addition

[fortyninethousand322]

To me, the whole game sucks. I don't want to DATE ever again.

 

Me neither, I never want to date again. It's all about game playing and who cares less. Usually relationships work best when the man cares the least. And that's something I've never been able to get a handle on.

[sweetjasmine]

I was simply writing about the girl and her parents talking about me and suggesting that she should go on a few dates.

 

If her parents like me, why would that not be a good idea?

 

Because a grown adult woman would probably not want her parents telling her who she should date. I, for one, wouldn't take any dating advice from my parents. Even when I was a teenager, I didn't listen to anything my mother said, in part because she didn't understand who I was and because she had a bad judge of character.

 

You obviously don't understand what I'm going through.

 

I'll just say this, I think something is very wrong with modern dating and I'm wondering what alternatives there are.

 

Do you at least understand why saying "dating sucks because women are actually allowed to choose for themselves" is bound to provoke a very negative reaction?

 

The mental image I get of your perfect dating world is one where a man drives to a store to browse the aisle of cages so he can pick out a woman to take home, like he would a puppy. Do you really believe that would be a better world to live in, just because it would serve your needs (and to hel-l with everyone else's)?

 

Dating does suck, but "dating sucks because women have a say in it" is a rather nasty thing to say, IMO, no matter what your life experience has been.

[fortyninethousand322]

Dating sucks because too many men are players and greedy. They flirt, or sleep with, or fool around, or lead on other women while dating or being married to another.

 

Some good guys do ok in dating of course, but far too many "high status" men are selfish and should stop pursuing women once they get into a relationship.

[plowguy1]

Dating sucks because too many men are players and greedy. They flirt, or sleep with, or fool around, or lead on other women while dating or being married to another.

 

Some good guys do ok in dating of course, but far too many "high status" men are selfish and should stop pursuing women once they get into a relationship.

 

These are the guys that don't even have to try,women throw themselves at these guys. they're not totally blameless, but it's hard to say no when it's dropped in your lap like that. A lot of women like to test the waters to see if they can trade up, (girls night out?) why are they not going some place other than a bar where these guys are? Or why are they dressing up to the nines to go to work? because they're checking they're options that's why. If no options are found, you get to try to keep her happy, if they are found it's "we're just not right for each other"

[plowguy1]

 

The mental image I get of your perfect dating world is one where a man drives to a store to browse the aisle of cages so he can pick out a woman to take home, like he would a puppy. Do you really believe that would be a better world to live in, just because it would serve your needs (and to hel-l with everyone else's)?

 

Dating does suck, but "dating sucks because women have a say in it" is a rather nasty thing to say, IMO, no matter what your life experience has been.

 

The fact is, if SD wanted to do that he basically could to serve his needs (escorts). I think his, and many other non alpha guys perfect dating world would be one where women would choose (and they do, do the choosing) men not based on what other women want. I'm sure you know many women who will put up with all kinds of crap from one of these guys, just so she can say she "has" him. It's like a 2 yr old with a toy, I guess we never really grow up...

[somedude81]

I have looked at your plight with a sympathetic eye SD. If it weren't for a dose of luck I could have still been in your position. The fact is that dating is very difficult in this world, especially as a man. But you really shouldn't have the mindset that the reason you are failing is because women have a say in dating.

Why not?

 

My life has basically been, if women can say no, they will.

 

I'm tired of being alone because women think I'm not good enough. Then you see the douches that they do date...

 

Also personally I would feel offended if someone was having conversations with my parents about me and then they would encourage me to date that particular person. I think most people would prefer to date someone that they choose.

I never said anything about me talking to the girls parents. They would talk to her about me.

 

Of course people would prefer to date someone that they choose, and we can see that women can make some pretty horrible choices, some over and over.

 

 

The fact is that you've had a hard time with the ladies and if you keep thinking like you do you then you will stay as you are now. I can't think of many women who think like that. You're evidently doing something wrong... and it's up to you to try fix it.

Of course women don't think like me, they have all the power!

 

I know I'm doing something wrong, but I don't know what it is or how to fix it.

You do mention that you are wondering what the alternatives to modern dating are. Well you could always go onto one of those Ukrainian mail order bride websites (or whatever equivalent tickles your fancy) and work from there. I'm sure those women wouldn't care what you looked like.

That's a little too extreme.

 

You're missing out on very little and avoiding a WHOLE lot of pain. stop thinking about dating, focus on your career, and find out what you like to do.

I just can't accept that. I've been alone for far too long and I've always wanted a girl in my life. And I feel that I'm missing out on many things that everybody else gets to experience in life.

 

Yeah divorce and alimony can be nasty but that's not a reason to avoid women altogether.

Because a grown adult woman would probably not want her parents telling her who she should date. I, for one, wouldn't take any dating advice from my parents. Even when I was a teenager, I didn't listen to anything my mother said, in part because she didn't understand who I was and because she had a bad judge of character.

Though I'm sure some people do trust their parent's judgement.

 

 

Do you at least understand why saying "dating sucks because women are actually allowed to choose for themselves" is bound to provoke a very negative reaction?

 

The mental image I get of your perfect dating world is one where a man drives to a store to browse the aisle of cages so he can pick out a woman to take home, like he would a puppy. Do you really believe that would be a better world to live in, just because it would serve your needs (and to hel-l with everyone else's)?

Of course I do. How could I not?

 

I already have an idea how it could work, which I'll keep to myself.

 

Right now, I feel that I'm being screwed over because women won't give me a chance. I'm never allowed the opportunity to prove myself. They base too much on physical attraction and 'chemistry' while none of that has any basis if they could actually be a good partner or not.

[fortyninethousand322]

Right now, I feel that I'm being screwed over because women won't give me a chance. I'm never allowed the opportunity to prove myself. They base too much on physical attraction and 'chemistry' while none of that has any basis if they could actually be a good partner or not.

 

Yeah. I know what you mean. Every girl I've ever tried to date has distanced herself from me the minute I tried to date them. It's probably the worst feeling in the world, especially when you end up seeing the guys they do date.

 

This isn't to say that some (many?) women don't make good choices. I have many friends who are fairly successful dating and their nice guys, average attractiveness, etc. But there's definitely something wrong with modern dating that's leading many men to frustration, desperation and hopelessness.

[jobaba]

Sounds like things are going well, on all fronts

 

IME, I've never found dating to 'suck', but rather the sucky part being finding dates

 

Things are going good. She's not perfect but I don't want perfect. Thanks for asking.

 

OP: I agree completely with you about the 'dating game', tbh. I completely despise the idea of going out with three different men in the space of a few weeks; Man #1 would probably string me along because he had had a meeting with a 'hotter' girl a day after our date, Man #2 would probably ditch me for not having sex with him after 3 dates because he considers it a waste of time and Man #3 would probably tell me on Date 1 that I had darn well better pay my own way because he's had enough of women getting free dinners. Really, not appealing.

 

I have chosen to, instead of do that, progress naturally into relationships that come from knowing each other and forming a bond. Should I not find anyone, I would rather be single than play the 'dating game'.

 

If you despise it as much as I do, I would suggest you take the same route.

 

Yup. Your example is pretty accurate although from my end, I'd be getting shot down for dates, or dealing with aloof dates if I could get them.

 

The friends first approach is so natural and right for a man of my personality, but it never worked. One of the main reasons for my sourness towards the game.

 

We'll see what happens the next time I'm single. But I'm not looking forward to it.

 

 

I just can't accept that. I've been alone for far too long and I've always wanted a girl in my life. And I feel that I'm missing out on many things that everybody else gets to experience in life.

 

Yeah divorce and alimony can be nasty but that's not a reason to avoid women altogether.

 

Right now, I feel that I'm being screwed over because women won't give me a chance. I'm never allowed the opportunity to prove myself. They base too much on physical attraction and 'chemistry' while none of that has any basis if they could actually be a good partner or not.

 

Any further advice I could give you on the specifics of a man in your position attracting a woman would be a broken record. You've heard it before.

 

However, I will say ... DO NOT GIVE UP. If you don't do anything proactive to meet women, nothing will happen. Don't think a woman will come to you naturally because you are doing the school/career thing and not caring. If it hasn't happened in 30 years, it won't in the next 30.

 

A relationship with a kind sweet girl is exactly what you need man. Just be on the lookout and keep an open mind.

[fortyninethousand322]

These are the guys that don't even have to try,women throw themselves at these guys. they're not totally blameless, but it's hard to say no when it's dropped in your lap like that. A lot of women like to test the waters to see if they can trade up, (girls night out?) why are they not going some place other than a bar where these guys are? Or why are they dressing up to the nines to go to work? because they're checking they're options that's why. If no options are found, you get to try to keep her happy, if they are found it's "we're just not right for each other"

 

Yet we see all the time women who complain that some guy they're sleeping with has been using her for sex and how can she keep him around, etc. Or some guys is cheating or abusing her and she still thinks he's a good guy and can't let him go. I'm starting to think maybe these stories are just people trolling or making up stories for their own amusement.

[verhrzn]

Dating does indeed suck, for both genders. But I think that's the price you pay to have our modern dating system... The reason it was so "easy" in the past was because most people had very little choice. Their dating opportunities were limited to the young people who lived in or around their towns, or who their social circle could set them up with. Marriage was also much less about love and attractiveness; it was a business arrangement, first and foremost.

 

Frankly, a lot of the "love" stories from the past few centuries have been pretty bleak. "Anna Karenina," anybody? Romantic love was portrayed as a chaotic force that would destroy a stable and contented life, or something reserved for the most powerful (the richest men, the most beautiful women.)

 

Now, people have a lot more choices, and a lot more freedom. Dating and marriage are all about "love." All about attraction.... but love and attraction ARE chaotic and potentially destructive emotions. There is great promise of happiness, but there's great risk of loss.

 

That's the price of admission for modern dating. You can't have the benefits (getting to pick someone you find attractive) without taking the lumps as well (they might not be attracted to you.) The choice is to either live with it, or give it up.

 

Me myself, I am leaning towards giving up. It's just gotten too painful. One of my exes recently started dating a good friend of mine, and seeing them together is like a knife in the gut. He was such an incredible jerk to me, but he treats her like a queen (it doesn't help that TWO of my other exes also had huge crushes on her while dating me.) I'm just never gonna be one of those girls that guys are attracted to; a romantic relationship just isn't in the cards for all of us.

[jobaba]

 

Me myself, I am leaning towards giving up. It's just gotten too painful. One of my exes recently started dating a good friend of mine, and seeing them together is like a knife in the gut. He was such an incredible jerk to me, but he treats her like a queen (it doesn't help that TWO of my other exes also had huge crushes on her while dating me.) I'm just never gonna be one of those girls that guys are attracted to; a romantic relationship just isn't in the cards for all of us.

 

Awww man. That sucks. I've been there. Cut all contact with him if you can.

 

Hang in there, you'll find someone who treats you good.

[PlumPrincess]

Someone on here mentioned once that there is an actual dating site for people with genital herpes. I would look into it.

That's kind of mean what you said. Not very like you...

[PlumPrincess]

Does that sound like anything I wrote? You often jump to such extremes Elswyth...

 

I was simply writing about the girl and her parents talking about me and suggesting that she should go on a few dates.

 

If her parents like me, why would that not be a good idea?

Why don't you hit the gym harder and try to acquire some dress style like it was suggested in the article?

 

What steps have you done to become more attractive to women? I'm not sure how you can expect to have success if you only approach one girl every year. That's like going to one job interview every year and complaining that you still don't have a job.

[verhrzn]

Awww man. That sucks. I've been there. Cut all contact with him if you can.

 

Hang in there, you'll find someone who treats you good.

 

Thanks. We actually stopped speaking a few months ago, but it still sucks, as they are in my social group and thus I am forced to interact with them. Seriously, of all the single girls in the world, he had to choose her... the girl that several of my exes got crushes on, is the only single girl in our group, AND lives a few hours away from us?! If he had purposely set out to bring me pain, he couldn't have picked a better girl.

[somedude81]

Why don't you hit the gym harder and try to acquire some dress style like it was suggested in the article?

 

What steps have you done to become more attractive to women? I'm not sure how you can expect to have success if you only approach one girl every year. That's like going to one job interview every year and complaining that you still don't have a job.

As if hitting the gym harder and getting better style would have any affect.

 

I approach more than one girl a year, but even if I asked out 20, the result would still the same.

[verhrzn]

As if hitting the gym harder and getting better style would have any affect.

 

I approach more than one girl a year, but even if I asked out 20, the result would still the same.

 

And you know that.... how? Because you've done it?

[somedude81]

And you know that.... how? Because you've done it?

Because there was a few years where I was really focused on my fitness and I have improved my style.

 

I don't have the genes to get buff so that will never be a way I can attract women with my looks. I'm always going to look like the small guy. And many women don't want that.

 

As for clothes, I'm doing the best with what I can afford. Even then the next step up is wearing overpriced brand name junk.

[PlumPrincess]

As if hitting the gym harder and getting better style would have any affect.

 

I approach more than one girl a year, but even if I asked out 20, the result would still the same.

Have you done any of these things that you claim don't work? You can ask all the guys here and they will tell you that it does work.

[verhrzn]

Because there was a few years where I was really focused on my fitness and I have improved my style.

 

I don't have the genes to get buff so that will never be a way I can attract women with my looks. I'm always going to look like the small guy. And many women don't want that.

 

As for clothes, I'm doing the best with what I can afford. Even then the next step up is wearing overpriced brand name junk.

 

I meant hitting on a greater number of girls. Ya know, the thing that EVERYONE tells you to try and yet you refuse to. Seriously, why is it so hard?? Thicken your skin, and ask some girls out... more than 1 a year, AFTER you make her your friend.

[fortyninethousand322]

I meant hitting on a greater number of girls. Ya know, the thing that EVERYONE tells you to try and yet you refuse to. Seriously, why is it so hard?? Thicken your skin, and ask some girls out... more than 1 a year, AFTER you make her your friend.

 

Unfortunately when you have a prolonged slump, you kind of get a "culture of losing" thing going. You get so used to not having people interested in you or being receptive to you pursuing them that it's hard to have any optimism and hit on a large number of girls (or any girls). You just assume they're not interested or they'll be annoyed so you just leave them alone.

 

That's what I do anyway, though I can't speak for SD.

[somedude81]

I meant hitting on a greater number of girls. Ya know, the thing that EVERYONE tells you to try and yet you refuse to. Seriously, why is it so hard?? Thicken your skin, and ask some girls out... more than 1 a year, AFTER you make her your friend.

You act like it is something I can consciously do.

 

Either way, based on my past experiences, hitting on more girls isn't going to change anything. It's stupid to think that next time things will be different.

 

BTW, are you suggesting I should make a girl my friend first then ask her out, or were you being sarcastic?

[verhrzn]

You act like it is something I can consciously do.

 

Either way, based on my past experiences, hitting on more girls isn't going to change anything. It's stupid to think that next time things will be different.

 

BTW, are you suggesting I should make a girl my friend first then ask her out, or were you being sarcastic?

 

I was being sarcastic. NEVER make a girl a friend with the purpose of dating her later. It works in exactly .001% of cases.

 

Again, you say "based on your past experiences." Your past experiences of... hitting on multiple girls? Because that would be the only experience that is relevant. Unless you have actually tried hitting on multiple girls for a prolonged period of time, you DO NOT know how it will turn out.

 

You can "thicken your skin" consciously by not taking the rejections so personally. There's tons of information out there for guys on how to roll with the punches. Try some of those techniques, ask out numerous girls. Only AFTER you have failed at this can you say with certainty that technique doesn't work.