Dating sucks...

[zengirl]

And yes, doing it often. You really don't think your criteria for attraction is a little narrow if you only see a girl every few months that you feel like hitting on??

 

This.

 

When I was single, I often met several men in a WEEK that seemed interesting to me (some weeks, I'd meet none, of course, so the weeks varied). Granted, plenty of those men weren't single or interested or I never got a chance to see if they were because of factors.

 

If you're only seeing a potentially attractive and interesting girl every FEW MONTHS and then not asking her out immediately, you're really not doing anything, SD.

[somedude81]

This.

 

When I was single, I often met several men in a WEEK that seemed interesting to me (some weeks, I'd meet none, of course, so the weeks varied). Granted, plenty of those men weren't single or interested or I never got a chance to see if they were because of factors.

 

If you're only seeing a potentially attractive and interesting girl every FEW MONTHS and then not asking her out immediately, you're really not doing anything, SD.

Honestly, a girl being physically attractive to me is not a big enough reason for me to ask her out.

 

I want to feel her out first.

 

Basically to find out if it is worth getting rejected by her.

[Lonely Ronin]

Perhaps but it's basically my only option at this point. Most good women are already taken.

 

Your not interacting with enough then, as I know several 'good ones'.

[AD1980]

This.

 

When I was single, I often met several men in a WEEK that seemed interesting to me (some weeks, I'd meet none, of course, so the weeks varied). Granted, plenty of those men weren't single or interested or I never got a chance to see if they were because of factors.

 

If you're only seeing a potentially attractive and interesting girl every FEW MONTHS and then not asking her out immediately, you're really not doing anything, SD.

 

For guys like me and sd who constantly get shot down chances are women at first glance dont find us attractive and praobably wont right away in a few minute cold approach conversation.. So are best chance is probably to build a repoire so she may eventaully become attracted because it may be the only way to attract..

 

Our best chance in reality is proably a a friend of a friend in our social circle that we could "grow" on but sd doesnt have many friends and all of my friends are married and their wives dont have single friends so its not an option..and when they did they werent interested in me anyway

[verhrzn]

Honestly, a girl being physically attractive to me is not a big enough reason for me to ask her out.

 

I want to feel her out first.

 

Basically to find out if it is worth getting rejected by her.

 

Dear God, knock it OFF. Stop trying to date from the Friend Zone!

 

Dating, in its very essence, is "getting to feel someone out." That's what dating IS. That's why you don't call it a "relationship" right off the bat. But if you don't signal your romantic intent right away, you are NEVER going to get anywhere. Healthy women do not wait around for their male friends to suddenly be attracted to them; your strategy is illogical to its core.

 

Stop focusing on the rejection. Stop it, stop it now. Read Dr. Nerdlove, and just... start... asking... girls.... out.

[zengirl]

Honestly, a girl being physically attractive to me is not a big enough reason for me to ask her out.

 

I want to feel her out first.

 

Basically to find out if it is worth getting rejected by her.

 

A guy being physically attractive to me is not a big enough reason for me to ask him out or go out with him either, but it's a big enough reason to have a conversation, see if we click, and see if we'd like to have a date after that conversation.

 

I'm not suggesting you ONLY use physical requirements at all (in fact, I'd definitely suggest you not) but I am suggesting you get over your fear of rejection AND I'm suggesting if there aren't more than occasional girls who are attractive to you (at a freaking college in SoCal, for goodness sakes!) then you probably have quite high physical standards.

[somedude81]

A guy being physically attractive to me is not a big enough reason for me to ask him out or go out with him either, but it's a big enough reason to have a conversation, see if we click, and see if we'd like to have a date after that conversation.

 

I'm not suggesting you ONLY use physical requirements at all (in fact, I'd definitely suggest you not) but I am suggesting you get over your fear of rejection AND I'm suggesting if there aren't more than occasional girls who are attractive to you (at a freaking college in SoCal, for goodness sakes!) then you probably have quite high physical standards.

No, I see girls that I am attracted to all the time.

 

But the fear of rejection is very strong.

 

I also don't have that many opportunities to talk to girls I'm attracted to and I don't want to approach a random girl and just start hitting on her. It's not going to work.

[zengirl]

No, I see girls that I am attracted to all the time.

 

But the fear of rejection is very strong.

 

I also don't have that many opportunities to talk to girls I'm attracted to and I don't want to approach a random girl and just start hitting on her. It's not going to work.

 

No, generally cold calls don't work. Sometimes they do but generally they don't. But you know what never works? What you're doing: doing nothing or doing some half-assed friendzone B.S.

 

What sometimes works (and will fail more often than it works, as EVERYTHING does) is going up to a woman and talking to her and seeing what happens from there. You don't really need an excuse besides, "I wanted to talk to her." If it's evident she doesn't want to talk to you, by all means leave, and don't interrupt anyone who seems terribly busy necessarily, but you have to go for it WAY more than you do.

[somedude81]

No, generally cold calls don't work. Sometimes they do but generally they don't. But you know what never works? What you're doing: doing nothing or doing some half-assed friendzone B.S.

 

What sometimes works (and will fail more often than it works, as EVERYTHING does) is going up to a woman and talking to her and seeing what happens from there. You don't really need an excuse besides, "I wanted to talk to her." If it's evident she doesn't want to talk to you, by all means leave, and don't interrupt anyone who seems terribly busy necessarily, but you have to go for it WAY more than you do.

That's not very encouraging.

 

As somebody who hates rejection, why would I do something that would fail more often than it works?

 

There has to be something that has better odds.

[zengirl]

That's not very encouraging.

 

As somebody who hates rejection, why would I do something that would fail more often than it works?

 

There has to be something that has better odds.

 

There isn't. You just have to get used to rejection. Trying to get 'better odds' is what keeps making your situation perpetually worse. Your odds are decreasing the longer you choose to not accept that rejection is an inevitable part of life.

[fortyninethousand322]

That's not very encouraging.

 

As somebody who hates rejection, why would I do something that would fail more often than it works?

 

There has to be something that has better odds.

 

I've tried and failed looking for something with better odds. Personally, I'd rather give up than continue to fail. The reality is you have to stop caring. Women like men who don't care about them. That's the secret. Stop caring, act a little rude and aloof, women will come.

 

My problem is getting to that point of not caring.

[somedude81]

I would love to be able to stop caring. Seriously I would.

 

My guess is that, that is the actual trick to this game.

[zengirl]

I would love to be able to stop caring. Seriously I would.

 

My guess is that, that is the actual trick to this game.

 

There is no trick.

 

Becoming a better quality person would help some, as would becoming more attractive, as quality improvements always help.

 

But rejection is inevitable. The trick is to accept that and become less afraid of rejection. No one LIKES rejection, but successful people learn to accept it.

[fortyninethousand322]

If being a quality person helped, really jerky bad guys wouldn't be constantly beating women off with a stick. Yeah sure, those aren't "good girls" or "quality women" or whatever. But come on, you want to remain perpetually single or date someone who is mentally unhealthy or who constantly seeks out bad characters? The correct choice should be obvious

[Els]

Ah here it is, the last post in that thread.

 

Can't link to the post for some reason so this is the thread

http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/312590-what-realistic-expectations-dating

 

Yeah, a woman can use her 'intuition' to see that I'm superficial and will then reject me because of it.

 

 

Evidently, you did not bother to read back through my posts, so I'll do you a favour and post the most pertinent one here.

 

 

 

No, for the umpteenth time, what is ingrained in your mindset is that there is nothing wrong or superficial about trying to convince a partner to have plastic surgery. It does not matter whether it is for breast, ass, face, whatever - it just so happens that for you, it is the breast, but they really are all the same principle. That reveals a whole host of other things about the man. You say you have learnt that you just should not date them, but you still do not believe that it is a horrible thing to do. All you have learnt is that 'women do not like to hear it' - that is not the same thing! You defend it tenaciously whenever anyone says that it is superficial.

 

Secondly, your requirements for a woman, all bar one, have been purely physical. Again, that reveals a lot into a man's insight. That is not, as I have said, necessarily a bad thing, but if you refuse to believe that it will lower your chances with women who prioritize other things above a man's appearance and career, you will never understand your situation or cease to bemoan it. It is essentially the same as an overweight woman (let us cite thyroid dysfunction or Cushing's disease, to prevent the argument of 'she can change herself, I can't') saying that she can't help but only like men who are 5'7" and above, with curly hair, so what is she to do? There is no easy answer to that, but when you see her talking over and over about how men don't like nice girls and how her genetics screwed her over, you cannot help but want to give her a reality check.

 

There is a reason people often end up with people 'in their league' - and it isn't as simple as they like to believe. The fact is that people often end up with people of similar mindsets - with degree of superficiality being a primary factor. They prize the same thing, and thus birds of the same feather flock together. THAT is the reason hot girls typically end up with rich men, or vice versa (though not as common), or hot girls with hot men, etc. It is not necessarily because the men and women with average looks and pay are 'settling for what they can get', though I don't doubt that some are. The happy others, however, are with their spouses not because they are 'settling' but because to them, there are other things more important than these, and their partner has loads of THAT. And that is what those who believe in 'leagues' (and thus are themselves believers in superficiality) cannot understand.

 

There are plenty of women who would be fine with your primarily physical requirements for a woman, and perhaps even your suggestion of surgery... but those women are likely to have more superficial requirements for their own man as well. If that is you, all well and good. If not, well.. that is my whole point.

 

So basically, the way I see it, you have two choices. You can work on your superficiality to have a shot with the women who don't care about how you look like or what you work as or how short you are or how you don't have the confidence of a playa, or whatever.

 

Or you can keep that, and work on the other parts of you that would attract similar-minded women. But you have 349787823 excuses on why you can't. You can't gain muscle because you're 'small-gened'... nonsense. You may never look like The Rock, but that doesn't mean that you can't look like Jet Li. Plenty of Asian martial artists are 'small-gened' but manage to get extremely well-defined muscle, that some girls dig, through working out more. How many hours do you even spend working out a week? You can't ask more girls out because you hate rejection. Well tough titties, just like some girls have to spend hours on beauty routines to attract a man, some men have to face a lot of rejection to find a woman. You can't play sports or attend more social events - really, I don't see why not. You can't get any male friends so that you'll look like a normal guy instead of some anti-social fellow... Don't you find this list is getting rather long?

 

You complain about all the things that you 'have to do' to attract women and how they are superficial - but when talked to about your own superficial requirements, you say you 'can't help them'. All well and good... but those ladies probably 'can't help theirs' either. So if you want to play that game, you gotta buck up your own side. And no, 'I would get better once I get a woman' is a huge cop out. Because it places the onus for YOUR improvement on another. That is just not how it works. When you're employed, you don't say 'I'll do better once my co-worker works better with me or my boss acts like a better leader'. You find ways for YOU to work around that. Because in the end, it's going to be YOUR performance review that matters.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Elswyth

[jobaba]

That's not very encouraging.

 

As somebody who hates rejection, why would I do something that would fail more often than it works?

 

There has to be something that has better odds.

 

As somebody who is 30+ and never been in a relationship, you are facing tough odds. The only way to circumvent those odds is to play the numbers and face LOTS of rejection.

 

I know it's tough bro. I've been there and may be again soon. But you have to get back on the horse.

 

I would love to be able to stop caring. Seriously I would.

 

My guess is that, that is the actual trick to this game.

 

It's impossible to not care. I got rejected by a woman months ago who I still think about it all the time, even though I'm dating somebody else.

 

Sometimes I just want to take a sledgehammer to my head, hit in the right spot, so I can erase that woman from my memory. Similar to what I'm sure you're going through with your woman.

 

The only 'trick' I can think of is to ask out women who you have no emotional investment in ... aka women you barely know.

[RedRobin]

Back to the main topic... why dating sucks.

 

Dating sucks for me because I hate feeling like I have to open up about my life to total strangers...over and over and over. Or feel pressured to have sex with a guy I hardly know in order to even think about being in a relationship.

 

It's like, they have no interest in getting to know me. Not really. They want this fake sense of intimacy and they want it, like, yesterday. The funny thing is... I have absolutely zero to hide. What I detest is the clawing and scratching for some kind of dirt, or looking for the bandaids over my wounds so they can promptly rip them off just for fun.

 

It feels mean... and I think it IS mean, TBH. It's not like they care about my life anyway (not really), so why bother talking about it? I'm ok not talking about my life in excruciating detail, so why aren't they? It's not like I'm asking THEM deep, probing questions on the first few dates. (ones they'd probably lie about anyway).

 

Mostly, it seems like they only do that stuff so that they can feel better about their own lives. Or they just like making other people feel uncomfortable so that they can work out whatever anger they have about relationships.

[zengirl]

If being a quality person helped, really jerky bad guys wouldn't be constantly beating women off with a stick. Yeah sure, those aren't "good girls" or "quality women" or whatever. But come on, you want to remain perpetually single or date someone who is mentally unhealthy or who constantly seeks out bad characters? The correct choice should be obvious

 

I said improving quality helps, and it does. I didn't suggest that there weren't jerks out there who had women---though they may be "quality" in other ways (not ways I care about necessarily, but different people seek different qualities).

[ThaWholigan]

I said improving quality helps, and it does. I didn't suggest that there weren't jerks out there who had women---though they may be "quality" in other ways (not ways I care about necessarily, but different people seek different qualities).

 

This is going to go round in circles IMO.

 

I think that having the self-awareness must also be backed up by a developed level of determination to overcome ones fears and anxieties.

 

Yes, it's going to be extremely difficult, but we have to do it.

[sid3]

Back to the main topic... why dating sucks.

 

 

It's like, they have no interest in getting to know me. Not really. They want this fake sense of intimacy and they want it, like, yesterday. The funny thing is... I have absolutely zero to hide. What I detest is the clawing and scratching for some kind of dirt, or looking for the bandaids over my wounds so they can promptly rip them off just for fun.

 

It feels mean... and I think it IS mean, TBH. It's not like they care about my life anyway (not really), so why bother talking about it? I'm ok not talking about my life in excruciating detail, so why aren't they? It's not like I'm asking THEM deep, probing questions on the first few dates. (ones they'd probably lie about anyway).

 

Mostly, it seems like they only do that stuff so that they can feel better about their own lives. Or they just like making other people feel uncomfortable so that they can work out whatever anger they have about relationships.

 

Yep. You are spot on. Sex is initially the priority followed closely by trying to be in control. I doubt it has anything to do with being mean for most men, its just a combination of how we are wired and our past experiences. Ultimately, if a relationship were to develope, we know who really ends up in control. Honestly, at the beginning dating is about whether or not we want to get into a girl's pants. I'm not implying all the wonderful qualities women can possess are ignored, and of course personality is important. They're just not what matters the most in determining attraction. I doubt many men would date women they didn't want to sleep with. It's unfair to say all men are pigs. Just as its unfair to say all women are bitchez.

[Meeks7]

Been silently lurking this thread. Very intriguing discussion going on here. Had an idea and thought I share it.

 

Somedude, from the sounds of certain posters and from your own posts, it seems you're been through some tough times in terms of attracting a female. I saw someone talk about therapy or having someone to talk to. It seems like you have no friends in real life you can talk to about all this?

 

May I offer something to you that might help you out greatly?

 

I have a 28 year old girl friend, Grace, who is currently interested with speaking to different people about their lives and issues.

 

Would you be willing to skype with her sometime? She's definitely easy on the eyes, trust me, and has a lot of great female knowledge (she's been in several long-term relationships).

 

If you don't have skype, then a phone call would work.

 

It would be free. You can share anything you want to her, and ask any ?'s you like.

 

I think having something like that will help you process your true feelings and be a healthy exercise for you. What do you say? Again, she's 28, good looking and has a wealth of female knowledge. I'm sure she'd be willing to spend 30 minutes with you over skype or over the phone.

 

Let me know your thoughts on this.

[somedude81]

There is no trick.

 

Becoming a better quality person would help some, as would becoming more attractive, as quality improvements always help.

 

But rejection is inevitable. The trick is to accept that and become less afraid of rejection. No one LIKES rejection, but successful people learn to accept it.

Improving quality is subjective.

 

What I would love to do is if somebody told me to do X then Y would happen.

 

As somebody who is 30+ and never been in a relationship, you are facing tough odds. The only way to circumvent those odds is to play the numbers and face LOTS of rejection.

 

I know it's tough bro. I've been there and may be again soon. But you have to get back on the horse.

It really sucks having to get back on after having my back broken when I was thrown off.

 

I want a pony.

 

It's impossible to not care. I got rejected by a woman months ago who I still think about it all the time, even though I'm dating somebody else.

 

Sometimes I just want to take a sledgehammer to my head, hit in the right spot, so I can erase that woman from my memory. Similar to what I'm sure you're going through with your woman.

 

The only 'trick' I can think of is to ask out women who you have no emotional investment in ... aka women you barely know.

But I don't want to

 

I know the way I prefer to do things doesn't work, but if it did it would be great.

 

Man I hate this world.

Been silently lurking this thread. Very intriguing discussion going on here. Had an idea and thought I share it.

 

Somedude, from the sounds of certain posters and from your own posts, it seems you're been through some tough times in terms of attracting a female. I saw someone talk about therapy or having someone to talk to. It seems like you have no friends in real life you can talk to about all this?

 

May I offer something to you that might help you out greatly?

 

I have a 28 year old girl friend, Grace, who is currently interested with speaking to different people about their lives and issues.

 

Would you be willing to skype with her sometime? She's definitely easy on the eyes, trust me, and has a lot of great female knowledge (she's been in several long-term relationships).

 

If you don't have skype, then a phone call would work.

 

It would be free. You can share anything you want to her, and ask any ?'s you like.

 

I think having something like that will help you process your true feelings and be a healthy exercise for you. What do you say? Again, she's 28, good looking and has a wealth of female knowledge. I'm sure she'd be willing to spend 30 minutes with you over skype or over the phone.

 

Let me know your thoughts on this.

Thank you for the offer.

 

I actually have a woman like this already. We've Skyped a few times and frequently email. We were almost going to meet up in person but life got in the way.

 

What I absolutely need though is somebody I can talk to in real life. There is just too much that can't be observed over text and even skype.

[Lonely Ronin]

What I would love to do is if somebody told me to do X then Y would happen.

 

Were you a mama's boy or something? It's seems like it based on statements like this. It seems like you want someone to hand you a perfect relationship on a silver platter.

 

Grow the hell up, life and relationships don't work that way. They aren't fare, and they require work, and ins some cases a lot of work.

[Meeks7]

What I absolutely need though is somebody I can talk to in real life. There is just too much that can't be observed over text and even skype.

 

 

I see you live in Socal. I asked her just now if she would be visiting Socal anytime soon.

 

She said no BUT, she has a few friends in Socal who deal with talking with people about their lives/issues as a profession. She said one of them would be more than willing to meet up with you at a time of your convenience and be able to listen and speak with you.

 

You just said "I absolutely need somebody I can talk to in real life."

 

Here's your opportunity. Like I said, her friends are in the business of helping people process their feelings and thoughts. They're in Socal, just like you. It would be free.

 

Let me know what you think.

[RedRobin]

Yep. You are spot on. Sex is initially the priority followed closely by trying to be in control. I doubt it has anything to do with being mean for most men, its just a combination of how we are wired and our past experiences. Ultimately, if a relationship were to develope, we know who really ends up in control. Honestly, at the beginning dating is about whether or not we want to get into a girl's pants. I'm not implying all the wonderful qualities women can possess are ignored, and of course personality is important. They're just not what matters the most in determining attraction. I doubt many men would date women they didn't want to sleep with. It's unfair to say all men are pigs. Just as its unfair to say all women are bitchez.

 

Prying into another person's life and digging in feels mean. I understand that people are afraid and feeling insecure themselves, which is why I tolerated some of it in the past. I've learned however, that people who do that aren't curious and they aren't trying to get to know me.

 

I agreed to coffee. Not an inquisition.

 

The most informative thing about their behavior is that I see they are interested in control. And they seek to get it ASAP. Good. I'm not interested in men who view relationships as a power struggle or who is in control. So they've done the work for me. Next.

 

In the future, I probably will simply cut the date short if I see it veering off in that direction, rather than sit through it and attempt to stay poised. I don't need to entertain their curiosity. I'm not a circus animal.

 

I didn't say men are pigs. I said that people who can't take the time to respectfully allow me to develop some kind of trust and rapport with them in person are not trustworthy. People who feel the need to dig and pry usually aren't nice people. Or they are covering up their own insecurities and trying to deflect. I get it. But I'm not digging, so their behavior is unwarranted.

Edited March 1, 2012 by RedRobin