Dating sucks...

[fortyninethousand322]

A lot of women are attracted to strength and action in men. A man can be strong, assertive, AND a good partner. Mine is

 

Sure. But that type is a rarity and they tend to get snatched up pretty quickly (lucky you). If you're digging around and having to choose between Mr. Jerk and Mr. Passive, if you choose Mr. Jerk you deserve what you get and you should stick to your choice and stop complaining when he cheats or treats you badly. It's common sense.

[zengirl]

What I don't get is guys like SD can't be "superficial" (whatever that means) and have to be oh so perfect, and yet complete a-hole, d-bag guttertrash guys get in relationships all the time. All the time. What is this bizarro "women will feel inadequate", etc. They feel inadequate all the time that's why many date losers. This whole thing makes no sense...

 

First of all: "whatever that means" --- Superficial means caring too much about the surface of things and lacking depth and the search for depth. I'm not fond of superficial people (I find them tedious, boring, and annoying) but I don't think it makes someone inherently bad. It's kind of zero-sum.

 

Second of all: No one is suggesting anyone has to be 'perfect' to get a girl. You certainly don't. (No one's perfect anyway.) And yes, sometimes jerks and losers get girls; heck, sometimes even great girls! (Sometimes bitches and losers get great guys too!) What we ARE suggesting is that if you want a girl that does not care about things like 'how you look' and 'how much money you have' and 'how confident and how much 'status' (whatever that means in your social circle) you have' THEN you probably are looking for a girl who is not very superficial at all. AND most people who are not superficial feel the way I do about superficiality---they find it tedious, boring, and annoying---and certainly don't want to date it!

 

As far as inadequacy goes, that can react in a variety of ways. Yes, some gals don't leave their jerk boyfriends because they make them feel inadequate and that keeps them there; other girls won't be in a relationship where they feel inadequate. There are many potential dynamics. My point is mainly you can't claim to be some great nice catch who's thwarted by superficial girls when you're as superficial as SD.

[fortyninethousand322]

That's what I've been saying all along, women are much more shallow then they want people to think.

 

See this is where you and I part ways. I don't think it has anything to do with shallowness about looks or height or money or any of that. I think it has to do with women wanting what they think they can't have. So if you act like she could leave tomorrow and it's no big deal (act aloof and like you don't care about her) women eat that up.

 

Just act like you don't give two craps about anyone or anything women will lining up around the block.

[verhrzn]

If I'm superficial because I'm attracted to pretty girls, then there is no way to stop it. There is no point in even trying to change it.

 

You keep saying superficial nature and only had one example to back it up. And that doesn't make me any worse than, every man alive.

 

You would want a woman to get a boob job if she was an A cup but otherwise perfect. How do you not get that this is superficial? You talk CONSTANTLY about women's looks... most of us regular posters know EXACTLY who is your type, which is proof enough that you mention it frequently. Even more damaging, you LOOK DOWN on women for not meeting your aesthetic requirements. This is the very definition of superficial.

 

With your insecurity, no you couldn't. You'd do worse with women than I do. I'm not trying to put you down, that's just how things are.

 

My insecurity is tied to my looks, and to my masculine tendencies. Women cannot escape their looks, because as you have pointed out, "men are visual." Women however... can be persuaded. AND my masculine tendencies wouldn't be a turn-off. They would be an asset. I could approach people I fancy without fearing I'll be accused of being "too aggressive" or "desperate" simply because of my gender. It is socially acceptable for men to pursue women; I could fit in with my behavior, for once, instead of having to "break the box."

 

More importantly, I can read women. Women send out so many subtle signals; if a guy could teach himself to be attuned to these, he'd strike gold. I know EXACTLY when a woman is hitting on a guy, only for the guy to say "Uhh, wha?" Such knowledge is power.

 

Can you give a couple of examples how a man shows his superficiality in a way that would cause you to reject him?

 

I already have when discussing my exes. Only one of them came out and said I wasn't that attractive while we were dating (though they told me so frequently after we broke up.) But I could just tell, through their actions... not only to me, but to other girls. They... acted different around hot girls. They puffed up their chest, they spoke in a louder voice, they tried to draw attention to themselves. It said quite clearly," Hey, look what a sexy man I am" in a way they DIDN'T act with me. Even when I pointed out, and they apologized, they kept doing it.

 

Guys who are superficial show it in dozens, hundreds, of ways, very few of them outright. But more importantly, guys who are superficial are NOT HAPPY settling for an average girl, and downtrodden behavior and depression are even more obvious than superficiality is. That alone is enough to make a girl say "No thanks."

[verhrzn]

You're actually the first woman to ever say that I'm not attractive enough.

 

I need more of that honestly. Not having a bunch of girls tell me that I'm cute or that they'd do me, when in fact they never would.

 

Oh for the F***ING LOVE OF ALL THAT IS F***ING GODDAMN HOLY.

 

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PHYSICAL ATTRACTION. NOTHING. GODDAMN F**ING NOTHING.

 

THESE GUYS ARE ATTRACTIVE BECAUSE THEY F**ING HIT ON GIRLS. THAT IS F***ING ALL. IF YOU F***ING HIT ON GIRLS, YOU'D BE F***ING ATTRACTIVE TOO. F*** YOUR TALK OF HOW SHORT AND "NON CUTE" YOU ARE, IT HAS ABSOLUTELY F***ING NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

[DepressedinDenver]

Oh for the F***ING LOVE OF ALL THAT IS F***ING GODDAMN HOLY.

 

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PHYSICAL ATTRACTION. NOTHING. GODDAMN F**ING NOTHING.

 

THESE GUYS ARE ATTRACTIVE BECAUSE THEY F**ING HIT ON GIRLS. THAT IS F***ING ALL. IF YOU F***ING HIT ON GIRLS, YOU'D BE F***ING ATTRACTIVE TOO. F*** YOUR TALK OF HOW SHORT AND "NON CUTE" YOU ARE, IT HAS ABSOLUTELY F***ING NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

 

This is hilarious coming from you who made a thread about how you only want to be loved for physical attraction. lolocaust.

[verhrzn]

This is hilarious coming from you who made a thread about how you only want to be loved for physical attraction. lolocaust.

 

I didn't say "only." I said "and."

 

My desire to be desired as a mark of my femininity has nothing to do with SD's hypocritical double-talk about standards and attraction, and his constant, illogical fixation on his looks/height being the problem.

[zengirl]

Can you give a couple of examples how a man shows his superficiality in a way that would cause you to reject him?

 

Probably, if I thought about it. But they wouldn't be conclusive (the list would really be millions of items long) and necessarily the things you might be most likely to do. It's been awhile since I've dated, so I don't have any recent examples to think of.

 

I think the biggest 'tell' is when a guy cannot just relate to me like a person. That can come across in a number of ways---the way he looks at me, the way he talks to me, the way he approaches me, etc.

 

Is this true, SD? No friends?

 

If so, this is very concerning.

 

You need friends, guys and girls (NOT girls you are in love with) who can give you feedback and encouragement, as well as provide opportunities to meet new women.

 

From a woman's pov, you NEED friends to appear normal and functional and fun to women.

 

Definitely true. Also, if you have no friends, you have no real way to relate to people. How can you relate to women you date if you cannot relate to other people? Friendships are important to mental and emotional health.

 

A lot of women are attracted to strength and action in men. A man can be strong, assertive, AND a good partner. Mine is

 

This is true. The women who will tolerate superficial won't go passive.

 

Both true. Hubby is assertive and strong, and he's an excellent partner. Strong and assertive does not = overbearing.

 

I'm able to control my fixation.

 

HAVING a fixation is what makes you superficial. "Controlling" it does nothing.

 

Sure. But that type is a rarity and they tend to get snatched up pretty quickly (lucky you). If you're digging around and having to choose between Mr. Jerk and Mr. Passive, if you choose Mr. Jerk you deserve what you get and you should stick to your choice and stop complaining when he cheats or treats you badly. It's common sense.

 

Not really. I know many of healthy, wonderful men who are neither passive losers nor crass jerks.

[DepressedinDenver]

You both should take your own advice.

[fortyninethousand322]

Not really. I know many of healthy, wonderful men who are neither passive losers nor crass jerks.

 

Are these men single or were they snatched up like I said?

[somedude81]

You would want a woman to get a boob job if she was an A cup but otherwise perfect. How do you not get that this is superficial? You talk CONSTANTLY about women's looks... most of us regular posters know EXACTLY who is your type, which is proof enough that you mention it frequently. Even more damaging, you LOOK DOWN on women for not meeting your aesthetic requirements. This is the very definition of superficial.

I already gone past the boob job thing. I just wouldn't date a woman smaller than a B.

 

I talk about looks in only saying what I don't want. There is a much broader range of what I'd accept than what I wouldn't.

 

And how do I look down on women? How do you think I treat them?

 

My insecurity is tied to my looks

News flash. So is mine.

 

If you were a guy, and not blesed with a handsome face or height, you'd be just as insecure about your looks as you are now.

 

, and to my masculine tendencies. Women cannot escape their looks, because as you have pointed out, "men are visual." Women however... can be persuaded.

News to me. I haven't been able to do that yet.

 

AND my masculine tendencies wouldn't be a turn-off. They would be an asset. I could approach people I fancy without fearing I'll be accused of being "too aggressive" or "desperate" simply because of my gender. It is socially acceptable for men to pursue women; I could fit in with my behavior, for once, instead of having to "break the box."

Masculine tendencies are much less of a turn-off then you think they are.

 

More importantly, I can read women. Women send out so many subtle signals; if a guy could teach himself to be attuned to these, he'd strike gold. I know EXACTLY when a woman is hitting on a guy, only for the guy to say "Uhh, wha?" Such knowledge is power.

Can I hire you?

 

I certainly can not tell when a woman is hitting on me and I'm easily mislead to believe that they are, when it's just being friendly.

 

With that skill alone, you might do well.

 

I already have when discussing my exes. Only one of them came out and said I wasn't that attractive while we were dating (though they told me so frequently after we broke up.) But I could just tell, through their actions... not only to me, but to other girls. They... acted different around hot girls. They puffed up their chest, they spoke in a louder voice, they tried to draw attention to themselves. It said quite clearly," Hey, look what a sexy man I am" in a way they DIDN'T act with me. Even when I pointed out, and they apologized, they kept doing it.

OK, that makes sense. He was trying to impress and get the attention of other women. And I can see how that would turn you off.

Oh for the F***ING LOVE OF ALL THAT IS F***ING GODDAMN HOLY.

 

IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH PHYSICAL ATTRACTION. NOTHING. GODDAMN F**ING NOTHING.

 

THESE GUYS ARE ATTRACTIVE BECAUSE THEY F**ING HIT ON GIRLS. THAT IS F***ING ALL. IF YOU F***ING HIT ON GIRLS, YOU'D BE F***ING ATTRACTIVE TOO. F*** YOUR TALK OF HOW SHORT AND "NON CUTE" YOU ARE, IT HAS ABSOLUTELY F***ING NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

Wow, so much anger. Rawr (Yes, bunnies can rawr)

 

Seriously verhrzn, I just can't accept that physical attraction has nothing to do with it.

[Sanman]

You're actually the first woman to ever say that I'm not attractive enough.

 

I need more of that honestly. Not having a bunch of girls tell me that I'm cute or that they'd do me, when in fact they never would.

 

 

I have never seen a pic of you, so I can't judge myself. However, what women say does not really matter. Whether it is looks, money, or attitude, the bottom line becomes that only the 'ugly fat chicks' want to go out with you. Thus, that is your 'league'. Not satisfied with that? Then figure out what about yourself you have to change to be more attractive to the women you want and change that. NO, I cannot tell you what to change, I do not know you. Figure it out, the rest of us did for ourselves. Perhaps you do need that brand name clothing or it could be something else.

 

If a guy came up to you and said he had not been able to find a job for 10 years except in the food service industry, but he was entitled to better because those jobs are below him, what would you say? The bottom line is that is no one else wants to hire him, so if he wants to pay bills you take the job or starve. The bottom line with you is that no one else wants to date you, so date your 'fat ugly chicks' or remain alone and celibate.

[xxoo]

Sure. But that type is a rarity and they tend to get snatched up pretty quickly (lucky you). If you're digging around and having to choose between Mr. Jerk and Mr. Passive, if you choose Mr. Jerk you deserve what you get and you should stick to your choice and stop complaining when he cheats or treats you badly. It's common sense.

 

If I had to choose between Mr. Jerk and Mr. Passive, I'd be single.

[zengirl]

Are these men single or were they snatched up like I said?

 

Some are single, and some are snatched up. All men were once single, though. I agree that 'better' candidates for relationships are more likely to find relationships (duh) but I disagree that they're rare. I've never found quality men to be rare---one that's just right for me, maybe, and I think everyone finds it hard to find their match, but I know many men who aren't losers or jerks. Most men I know are pretty cool.

 

I already gone past the boob job thing. I just wouldn't date a woman smaller than a B.

 

This is not any less superficial. I know you won't understand that, and it's almost become amusing, actually.

 

Just listen to what Sanman said basically:

 

I have never seen a pic of you, so I can't judge myself. However, what women say does not really matter. Whether it is looks, money, or attitude, the bottom line becomes that only the 'ugly fat chicks' want to go out with you. Thus, that is your 'league'. Not satisfied with that? Then figure out what about yourself you have to change to be more attractive to the women you want and change that. NO, I cannot tell you what to change, I do not know you. Figure it out, the rest of us did for ourselves. Perhaps you do need that brand name clothing or it could be something else.

 

If a guy came up to you and said he had not been able to find a job for 10 years except in the food service industry, but he was entitled to better because those jobs are below him, what would you say? The bottom line is that is no one else wants to hire him, so if he wants to pay bills you take the job or starve. The bottom line with you is that no one else wants to date you, so date your 'fat ugly chicks' or remain alone and celibate.

 

That about sums up life.

[fortyninethousand322]

If I had to choose between Mr. Jerk and Mr. Passive, I'd be single.

 

Fair enough. Me personally, I'd rather be in a very very bad relationship than be single.

 

Some are single, and some are snatched up. All men were once single, though. I agree that 'better' candidates for relationships are more likely to find relationships (duh) but I disagree that they're rare. I've never found quality men to be rare---one that's just right for me, maybe, and I think everyone finds it hard to find their match, but I know many men who aren't losers or jerks. Most men I know are pretty cool.

 

Well then I guess I'm not as good a catch as I thought then. I thought maybe if I waited around long enough by comparison I'd look better than the competition and women would just settle for me.

 

Looks like that's a very wrong assumption.

[AD1980]

Why is being a laid back guy such a turnoff to women?

 

Why must every guy be super agressive to be attractive?

[verhrzn]

Seriously verhrzn, I just can't accept that physical attraction has nothing to do with it.

 

Well no freaking duh you can't. You take on the passive, female role, and never try to actually step up and HIT ON a female. If you started pursuing females, you'd suddenly realize that your looks, while an asset, come in as attractive qualities behind your confidence and assertiveness.

[zengirl]

Why is being a laid back guy such a turnoff to women?

 

Why must every guy be super agressive to be attractive?

 

Hubby is laid back! I think being strong (some degree of inner strength or stoicism more than aggressive) and assertive is very attractive to women but so is being relaxed and go-with-the-flow. Aggressiveness is attractive to certain women, but far from all of them!

[fortyninethousand322]

Why is being a laid back guy such a turnoff to women?

 

Why must every guy be super agressive to be attractive?

 

I think "aggressive" really means "could care less about me". Indifference is a huge turn on apparently.

[verhrzn]

Why is being a laid back guy such a turnoff to women?

 

Why must every guy be super agressive to be attractive?

 

For the same reason women must be a little submissive to be seen as attractive... because of the gender roles of society.

 

There are exceptions, of course, and if you (a man or a woman) have other very attractive qualities you don't need to play by these rules. However, if you are a passive man (since aggression/assertiveness is labeled as masculine) then you need to understand that that means 1) you're probably going to attract an aggressive woman to "balance out" and 2) it may take a very long time to get there, since women are not conditioned to be aggressors, so you are asking a woman to break the social rule as the "ticket of admission" to a relationship with you.

[Lonely Ronin]

Fair enough. Me personally, I'd rather be in a very very bad relationship than be single.

This is probably the worst thing you can do, as it will f you up mentally.

 

 

I thought maybe if I waited around long enough by comparison I'd look better than the competition and women would just settle for me.

 

This is also horrible for you mentally.

[Lonely Ronin]

Why is being a laid back guy such a turnoff to women?

 

Why must every guy be super agressive to be attractive?

 

First off, you don't need to be super aggressive, that's just as bad as being supper passive.

 

If we generalize(the easiest way to talk about this), neither gender wants the other to be supper passive, or aggressive. Men need to be a little more aggressive than women because society expects us to chase, it's that simple, period, end of story.

[somedude81]

Well no freaking duh you can't. You take on the passive, female role, and never try to actually step up and HIT ON a female. If you started pursuing females, you'd suddenly realize that your looks, while an asset, come in as attractive qualities behind your confidence and assertiveness.

Of course I do.

 

I've hit on many girls and got shot down by them all.

 

I'll do the next line for you.

"Well then you haven't hit on enough."

 

I've hit on every girl that I have ever liked and even some that just piqued my interest.

[fortyninethousand322]

This is probably the worst thing you can do, as it will f you up mentally.

 

Maybe it will. For whatever it's worth I've already decided to wait until I get a job and my own place before I try to date or meet women. So, there's no immediate danger for me to mess myself up mentally.

 

 

This is also horrible for you mentally.

 

Perhaps but it's basically my only option at this point. Most good women are already taken.

[verhrzn]

Of course I do.

 

I've hit on many girls and got shot down by them all.

 

I'll do the next line for you.

"Well then you haven't hit on enough."

 

I've hit on every girl that I have ever liked and even some that just piqued my interest.

 

Except you've admitted that you try to "hit on" these girls through the Friend Zone... by becoming their friend first, and THEN trying to introduce the romantic stuff. You've also admitted that you get serious Onitis, in which you don't like more than 1 girl every few ones.

 

"Hitting on" is going up to a girl, having a conversation with her, and then asking her out. Not in a "hey I guess we could hang out, cool" casual way, but in a "Hey let's go out to dinner and a movie" way.

 

And yes, doing it often. You really don't think your criteria for attraction is a little narrow if you only see a girl every few months that you feel like hitting on??