fortyninethousand322 Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 That has nothing to do with this conversation. But sweat shops are predatory. The same way EU and USA protectionism of their agriculture is predatory of African agriculture and keeps the continent poor...instead of making great economic progress in an industry Africa excels at. Just throwing out predatory and selfish behavior while we are talking about it. Those in power have a responsibility to the less fortunate. Exploiting them is wrong. Any way you slice it, its wrong, It relates because it's the only comparison I could find. So, if you're 15 and you really really want to sext (or even carry on a relationship with) a person who's older (in this case 35 but let's say 30 or older generally) and that person agrees, you want someone other than your own parents to say no to that? Where's the autonomy for the 15 year old? Do they not get a say in this?
kaylan Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 To the responsibility of the 15 year old... the age doesn't matter... they are not mentally ready to be engaging in sexual activity. This constitutes a grave failure in personal judgement and parenting. To the responsibility of the 35 year old. It isn't appropriate to be in sexual situations with someone judged to be a minor. This shows a grave failure in personal judgement and a complete disrespect for a young person's well being. I just can't tell you that a 15 year old bears no responsibility for their actions. It seems schizophrenic to hold them responsible for everything except sex. Sure many 15 year olds arent mentally ready for sex....however...theres a differences between: a) fumbling around with sex with another immature kid youre age and, b) having an adult that already knows about life experience as a teen exploit your naivety for there own sexual gain. Big Difference! In my opinion it isnt right for 35 year olds to be having sex with anyone under 21. Thats just my opinion...unless the younger person is VERY mature...but usually an older person is leaps and bounds ahead of a younger person. Despite the bs the younger person likes to believe about how mature they themselves are. Its usually something they are told just to get flattered and more open to the older persons advances. Im just not cool with people selfishly manipulating others in general. And no one is saying 15 year olds would never take responsibility for anything. The other poster said THEY ARE NOT THE OFFENDERS HERE. The adult is the one with the fully developed mind and who has the life experience to know better. But the adult still chooses to manipulate the kid. I mean come on now...our brains dont even finish growing till 25. I dont think its ever ok for someone my age to hook up with folks under 20. Especially not 15 or 16 when teens are very irrational and still dealing with big hormone changes.
kaylan Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 (edited) It relates because it's the only comparison I could find. So, if you're 15 and you really really want to sext (or even carry on a relationship with) a person who's older (in this case 35 but let's say 30 or older generally) and that person agrees, you want someone other than your own parents to say no to that? Where's the autonomy for the 15 year old? Do they not get a say in this? Lmao @ autonomy. You dont get much when youre a kid, because kids do stupid stuff and cant even take care of themselves yet. Hell most people cant take care of themselves until they are 22/23 and out of college. Teens are fvking kids. Teens wanna do a lot of things that they think is right but is really wrong. Lets be real here bro. Teens get pregnant and end up on Maury thinking they can easily raise a baby at that age and their mom will help. Teens start drinking and getting alcohol poisoning because they dont even know their limits yet. Teens think its smart to let their friends pierce them with a sewing needle since they dont have the money to hit the piercing shop...or they are too young to be allowed the service. So knowing a lot of the silly things teens do at a time in their life where everythings crazy and new...especially given the hormonal changes that makes life very different and confusing at times...given all that, an adult should know better than to engage in inappropriate behavior with a teenage kid. An adult should be looking out for the young, not exploiting them. Youve been 15 and 16 before right? While I might have thought it was sexy and cool to have my hot Spanish teacher Mrs G hook up with me at that age...I was still a stupid and naive kid. She could have ran circles around me and manipulated me into a ton of things. As a grown man Im able to reflect on all the maturing Ive done. I mean come on....that lady back in the early 90s convinced a teenager and his friends to kill her husband. Kids are impressionable and easy to manipulate when you already have the experience they dont have. Its wrong to do that to them. Edited February 28, 2012 by kaylan
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Kids are impressionable and easy to manipulate when you already have the experience they dont have. Its wrong to do that to them. If it's about experience, then you might as well say that any woman could manipulate me since I've never had a relationship, never kissed a girl, never had sex or any of that. I don't have the experience they do. Everything is subjective.
kaylan Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 If it's about experience, then you might as well say that any woman could manipulate me since I've never had a relationship, never kissed a girl, never had sex or any of that. I don't have the experience they do. Everything is subjective. Everything is not subjective. Not when it comes to something like this. Though you dont have sexual experience, you are AN ADULT. First, you have LIFE experience that teens do not have...youve been able to mature and see things differently than they can. Next, you also are done with all that wacky hormone craziness that really messes with a kids head at that age. And your brain has finished maturing as well. So you are a far cry from a teenager. Nice try though;)
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Everything is not subjective. Not when it comes to something like this. Though you dont have sexual experience, you are AN ADULT. First, you have LIFE experience that teens do not have...youve been able to mature and see things differently than they can. Next, you also are done with all that wacky hormone craziness that really messes with a kids head at that age. And your brain has finished maturing as well. So you are a far cry from a teenager. Nice try though;) I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If that means I'm defending a sexual predator than I guess I'm ok with that.
Nightsky Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If that means I'm defending a sexual predator than I guess I'm ok with that. Just live the best life you can. Pay attention to age of consent laws for the sole purpose of staying out of jail. You can't be arrested for hitting on a 15 year old though. Not that I'm even sure the OP's bf hit on her because its all so confusing and not details what so ever were ever given.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 True - but the person in this story is not a woman. She is a girl. And if she is a completely promiscuous sociopathic teenaged tramp who already has a 2 year old child and comes onto every man who is within her range, I STILL think that adults need to leave her alone, sexually. I totally agree with that. I don't think we have a big disagreement here. I think some of us are taking an innocent until proven guilty approach to this specific case. Also some of us think this 15yo girl bears some responsibility for her actions. I think those are the two major sticking points here.
kaylan Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. If that means I'm defending a sexual predator than I guess I'm ok with that. Why is there an "agree to disagree" with the point I made? The fact is that you are an adult, and if you wanted Im sure you could easily run circles around teenagers even though you have no sexual experience. But you can only do that because you are a mature adult with LIFE experience. Whats so hard to understand? If your ok with defending a guy with questionable behavior towards minors, suit yourself. I at least know that most guys wouldnt be cool with a dude likes OPs guy. His behavior triggers the protector mentality in many of us who has daughters, or younger sisters and cousins.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Why is there a "agree to disagree" with the point I made. The fact is that you are an adult, and if you wanted Im sure you could easily run circles around teenagers even though you have no sexual experience. But you can only do that because you are a mature adult with LIFE experience. Whats so hard to understand? If your ok with defending a guy with questionable behavior towards minors, suit yourself. I at least know that most guys wouldnt be cool with a dude likes OPs guy. His behavior triggers the protector mentality in many of us who has daughters, or younger sisters and cousins. I have a younger sister and I would say the same thing if she were in a similar situation.
kaylan Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I have a younger sister and I would say the same thing if she were in a similar situation. I guess that says a lot about you. Im glad most guys arent that way and actually know how certain older men creepily behave towards young girls. If you dont see the exploitative nature and truly negative impact an older person can have on a younger persons life by engaging in sexual relations with them, then I guess I was wrong and you need more life experience. O wells. Hopefully she has better male figures in her life who seek to protect her.
aj22one Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I guess that says a lot about you. Im glad most guys arent that way and actually know how certain older men creepily behave towards young girls. If you dont see the exploitative nature and truly negative impact an older person can have on a younger persons life by engaging in sexual relations with them, then I guess I was wrong and you need more life experience. O wells. Hopefully she has better male figures in her life who seek to protect her. Dude that was kinda low.
kaylan Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Dude that was kinda low. Thems the breaks. I aint gonna lie to the dude. I truly do hope she has other male figures in her life who will look out for her a little more. Its a mans job to protect the women in his life, as well as the young people he has influence over. Same way parents and older siblings have a job to steer the little ones in the right direction. In this day and age where so many adults seek to use and abuse young people, how can you not stay actively involved in the lives of the family youth?
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I guess that says a lot about you. Im glad most guys arent that way and actually know how certain older men creepily behave towards young girls. If you dont see the exploitative nature and truly negative impact an older person can have on a younger persons life by engaging in sexual relations with them, then I guess I was wrong and you need more life experience. O wells. Hopefully she has better male figures in her life who seek to protect her. Look, the world will NEVER run out of dirty old men. NEVER. If you want to protect your daughter/sister.... or whatever... Teach her to avoid bad situations. That removes the problem 99% of the time. Thems the breaks. I aint gonna lie to the dude. I truly do hope she has other male figures in her life who will look out for her a little more. Its a mans job to protect the women in his life, as well as the young people he has influence over. Same way parents and older siblings have a job to steer the little ones in the right direction. In this day and age where so many adults seek to use and abuse young people, how can you not stay actively involved in the lives of the family youth? How do you plan to protect them? I'm a practical guy. Once the deed is done... you've already failed. So that means you gotta be proactive. How do you plan to accomplish that? Oh... by telling them that they can do whatever they want and no consequences will come to them. Right?
aj22one Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Thems the breaks. I aint gonna lie to the dude. I truly do hope she has other male figures in her life who will look out for her a little more. Its a mans job to protect the women in his life, as well as the young people he has influence over. Same way parents and older siblings have a job to steer the little ones in the right direction. In this day and age where so many adults seek to use and abuse young people, how can you not stay actively involved in the lives of the family youth? I would hope they would protect without using coercion. Otherwise it's pointless and would just feed into the problem. People are going to make crappy choices in life, it's best to help to prevent them but there's really no way to stop them once they've been made. A parent or sibling's job is to provide a good example and be a good teacher. If a 15 year old starts thinking it's ok to date or sleep with a 35 year old it's already too late.
Anela Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Look, the world will NEVER run out of dirty old men. NEVER. If you want to protect your daughter/sister.... or whatever... Teach her to avoid bad situations. That removes the problem 99% of the time. Actually, it doesn't. Men pitching in to defend a woman would be a good thing, though. From what I hear, it doesn't happen so much anymore. It also seems that some men will take it as a sign to join in on the fun - like those girls who were raped by boys at parties, or when they'd tried to leave? I need to find that story again. I know on author, after hearing about one of them, talked about a multiple rape in her college, where at least fourteen young "men" raped a girl, one after the other. It might have been more. No, boys and men need to be taught that there will be consequences if they do that. It is just as much on the shoulders of men to keep girls safe, as it is their own parents. I've made plenty of smart decisions, but have still ended up in precarious situations. I don't sleep around, don't drink much, don't do drugs, but if something happened, I would be looked at more than the man, wondering what I did to allow it to happen to me, which is just plain WRONG.
kaylan Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Look, the world will NEVER run out of dirty old men. NEVER. If you want to protect your daughter/sister.... or whatever... Teach her to avoid bad situations. That removes the problem 99% of the time. Thats what I am talking about. Instilling youth with wisdom but also stepping in if they are putting themselves in truly bad situations. How do you plan to protect them? I'm a practical guy. Once the deed is done... you've already failed. So that means you gotta be proactive. How do you plan to accomplish that? Oh... by telling them that they can do whatever they want and no consequences will come to them. Right? Actually once the deed is done, you ask them what they learned and if they see the wisdom in your words. Sometimes kids listen to their parents from the get go, and sometimes they disobey but learn the error of their ways after experience the consequences. Many of us have been there, and many of us have seen the wisdom in the words of our folks after we screwed up. Who said anything about telling them to do whatever they want without consequences? I sure didnt say that.
Anela Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I'm sure you also think sweat shops in foreign countries are predatory too. Or paying somebody 2 dollars a day to pick strawberries is predatory. It's only predatory if both parties don't agree to the arrangement. I do. It's taking advantage of people in desperate situations. It is predatory.
kaylan Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I would hope they would protect without using coercion. Otherwise it's pointless and would just feed into the problem. People are going to make crappy choices in life, it's best to help to prevent them but there's really no way to stop them once they've been made. A parent or sibling's job is to provide a good example and be a good teacher. If a 15 year old starts thinking it's ok to date or sleep with a 35 year old it's already too late. Parents always use coercion though. Parents say, "well if you do this, know this consequence will happen" Thats life. If the kid chooses to disobey they have to deal with the consequences. Live and learn. When it comes to kids doing stupid things with adults, then you simply bring charges against the adult if they act inappropriately with your child. Simple. If the teenage kid thinks its ok to date an adult, you simply try and tell them that the relationship isnt equal, its dangerous, and to be careful. If the adult thinks its ok....well you call the cops. End of story.
Anela Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 That has nothing to do with this conversation. But sweat shops are predatory. The same way EU and USA protectionism of their agriculture is predatory of African agriculture and keeps the continent poor...instead of making great economic progress in an industry Africa excels at. Just throwing out predatory and selfish behavior while we are talking about it. Those in power have a responsibility to the less fortunate. Exploiting them is wrong. Any way you slice it, its wrong, I know you aren't the only guy who spoke up, but I like you a lot, too. Thank you for speaking up.
aj22one Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I'm sure you also think sweat shops in foreign countries are predatory too. Or paying somebody 2 dollars a day to pick strawberries is predatory. It's only predatory if both parties don't agree to the arrangement. I see what you're saying here and you're right. Economics is economics. The people who work in sweat shops do so because it's a lot better for their quality of life than what they were doing before. Most people can't get their minds around this, they probably think the late 1800s was a horrible time for America (the "robber barons" and the like yeah right). Don't expect people with statist (quasi-socialist or fascist) public education (read:indoctrination) to get this point. They think the free market is slavery. Actually government is slavery. 1
aj22one Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Parents always use coercion though. Parents say, "well if you do this, know this consequence will happen" Thats life. If the kid chooses to disobey they have to deal with the consequences. Live and learn. When it comes to kids doing stupid things with adults, then you simply bring charges against the adult if they act inappropriately with your child. Simple. If the teenage kid thinks its ok to date an adult, you simply try and tell them that the relationship isnt equal, its dangerous, and to be careful. If the adult thinks its ok....well you call the cops. End of story. I don't believe in do "x" and get punished. Consequences should always be the result of an action. You tell kids not to get passed out drunk not because you're going to ground them if they do but because it's bad for their liver and can be dangerous (especially for girls). You tell people no to text and drive not because they'll get a ticket but because they could cause an accident and maybe kill someone. I would tell a young teen not to get involved with an adult because of physical issues, inability to relate, and the sort. Not because I was going to ground the teenager and then call the gestapo on the adult. If a teenager is trying to date an older person it's because there's been a parental failure. All the police in the world won't be able to fix that.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Actually, it doesn't. Men pitching in to defend a woman would be a good thing, though. From what I hear, it doesn't happen so much anymore. It also seems that some men will take it as a sign to join in on the fun - like those girls who were raped by boys at parties, or when they'd tried to leave? I need to find that story again. I know on author, after hearing about one of them, talked about a multiple rape in her college, where at least fourteen young "men" raped a girl, one after the other. It might have been more. No, boys and men need to be taught that there will be consequences if they do that. It is just as much on the shoulders of men to keep girls safe, as it is their own parents. I've made plenty of smart decisions, but have still ended up in precarious situations. I don't sleep around, don't drink much, don't do drugs, but if something happened, I would be looked at more than the man, wondering what I did to allow it to happen to me, which is just plain WRONG. Do you think I'm saying rapists are not responsible for their actions? That is a stupid idea. Of course people who do bad things should be punished and held accountable. I'm just saying if you don't want to get burned... don't stick your damn hand in a fire. Duh.
kaylan Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 I see what you're saying here and you're right. Economics is economics. The people who work in sweat shops do so because it's a lot better for their quality of life than what they were doing before. Most people can't get their minds around this, they probably think the late 1800s was a horrible time for America (the "robber barons" and the like yeah right). Don't expect people with statist (quasi-socialist or fascist) public education (read:indoctrination) to get this point. They think the free market is slavery. Actually government is slavery. So when poor folks in Bangladesh die in a sweat shop fire making H&M clothes...thats ok because it was better quality of life than what they had before? Doesnt matter that they are exploited and given crappy wages and poor working conditions that caused that fire huh?
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 28, 2012 Posted February 28, 2012 Thats what I am talking about. Instilling youth with wisdom but also stepping in if they are putting themselves in truly bad situations. Actually once the deed is done, you ask them what they learned and if they see the wisdom in your words. Sometimes kids listen to their parents from the get go, and sometimes they disobey but learn the error of their ways after experience the consequences. Many of us have been there, and many of us have seen the wisdom in the words of our folks after we screwed up. Who said anything about telling them to do whatever they want without consequences? I sure didnt say that. Kaylan... I totally agree. A parent has to be proactive here, and not just provide punishment, but also teaching. Kids will do stupid stuff from time to time... but I think you will find that the ones out there trying to get sexy with much older men have serious parental issues. I guess the question is this: Is it acceptable for a 15yo girl to be sending sexual text messages to a 35yo guy? Is it OK for her to do that?
Recommended Posts