This is a tough one.......

[NU42]

Here is my situation........

 

I'm a trial attorney. I'm the managing partner of my firm. My friends wives call me a compassionate alpha male. I'm successful, I'm told I'm handsome and I live an exciting life.

 

My ex is Sloane. I have worked in the same firm with this beautiful woman for 11 years. We've always been the best of friends, confidants, almost like husband and wife at the office. We worked together, ate together, exercised together, finished each other's sentences, ect. She is beautiful ....and smart.

 

Neither of us was married. However, she had two young children from a 9 year relationship with her longtime boyfriend, Teddy, who, in a nutshell, is a bad guy. Some women like "bad boys", but Teddy is not the so-called "bad boy" women would find attractive. He's a slob. He's an alcoholic; drug user; and a video game addict with anger issues. She'd been with this guy for 9 years; they lived together; and she supported him because he's always been unemployed.

 

2 years ago, Sloane and I brushed up against each other in the office kitchen and started to kiss passionately. Within a week or two, our relationship becamse physically and emotionally intense. She kicked Teddy out of the house and he moved into an apartment a few miles away.

 

Our relationship was very intense for a year. We had great emotional and physical chemistry. We talked about marriage and having kids. I loved her boys and would have raised them as my own. I met and became very close to her sisters and her friends. However, her parents were both alcoholics and drug users. Her childhoold was very chaotic.

 

As we were dating and getting closer to marriage, Teddy was drinking himself into a stupor and threatening to harm himself. Frankly, I was worried for this guy. And I knew it was bothering Sloane, not only because she told me she was feeling guilty about it, but also because she seemed to be withdrawing a bit. Her parents were alcoholics. This guy is an alcoholic.

 

Anyway, last May, just two weeks after taking me to see her grandmother to get her blessing for marriage, Sloane said she couldn't go through with it. In tears, she said she felt obligated to get back together with this guy, in part for the kids, in part because he'd been with her for 9 years, in part because she would feel guilty if she didn't pull him out of the gutter. So she brok up with me ...in tears ....and this guy moved back into her house shortly thereafter.

 

Anyway, to make matters more complicated, when she ended it, she made it clear that she loves me ....and that we're soul-mates. I know, I know, I know. She may have said that to ease her guilt and/or let me down easy. She may have been full of ****, controlling, manipulating. Who knows?

 

Inside, I was devastated. However, I responded by simply letting her go. I went NO CONTACT which was very difficult because I am the managing partner of my firm and she works here. In a nutshell, I only talked to her about business, nothing personal. Intially, it was difficult. However, it eventuall became easy for me because I didn't care anymore. Don't get me wrong, I will always love her. However, I wasn't going to worry about something that obviously wasn't meant to be.

 

Over the course of the last 10 months, she has played this push/pull game with me. At first, it bothered me. However, over time, it just made me laugh. She is living with with this loser of a guy, but tells me that she loves me whenever she can. About 4 months ago, with a smile on my face, I told her she's wasting her time with the "love" talk and that I have moved on. NOTE: She knows I'm dating.....and she hates it.

 

Her sisters, who love me and still talk to me, say Teddy has begged her to marry him, but she won't do it. Teddy also asked her to find a different job because he doesn't want her working with me, but she refuses to leave my firm. Her sisters also say she questions and regrets her decision every day.

 

FYI: She recently said "I will always love you and still dream of being together someday. I just chuckled and changed the subject.

 

However, my sources, who are reliable, are telling me that she apparently had a nervous breakdown a couple of weeks ago. She suddenly missed some time from work without much of an explanation. She is getting psychotherapy.

 

So, candidly, I am worried about her. I still love her. I recognize that she may not be the one for me. Right now, she's still living with Teddy, but she keeps reaching out to me and I ignore it. She's in therapy for reasons directly or indirectly related to all of this.

 

I may or may not have the option of giving her a second chance. As long as she's with Teddy, it's not an option, but I am worried that I continue to reject and ignore somebody who is reaching out to me and apparently is really struggling with it.

 

So here are my questions:

 

1) She has always told me that she got back together with Teddy because of pity, not love. Is that even possible? Even if it is possible, I'm not sure I would believe it, but I guess I need to know.

 

2) Is it possible that feelings of guilt or pity would cause her to walk away from me even when she was in love with me? Even if it's possible, I'm not sure I want to believe it, but I guess I need to know.

 

3) If she and her sisters (who love me) are truthful when they say she regrets her decision and feels trapped, should I open my heart and mind to the possibility that we may be together someday?

 

4) Or should I simply continue to be an aloof alpha male who doesn't care? Of course, that requires some pretending.

 

Thanks to everybody for your help !

[EgoJoe]

So, you've learned that she is codependent, has two kids, is capable of deception, is capable rationalization of dishonesty, is capable of emotional manipulation, is in Therapy and is STILL doing the Push and Pull Ego routine on you.

 

Questions:

 

1) She has always told me that she got back together with Teddy because of

pity, not love. Is that even possible? Even if it is possible, I'm not sure

I would believe it, but I guess I need to know.

 

She is capable of rationalization of dishonesty.

 

2) Is it possible that feelings of guilt or pity would cause her to walk away

from me even when she was in love with me? Even if it's possible, I'm not sure

I want to believe it, but I guess I need to know.

 

If her feelings of love were strong enough she would have stayed. Women (and to a different degree men) can deny facts in the face of adversity for the sake of a Man they love.

 

3) If she and her sisters (who love me) are truthful when they say she regrets

her decision and feels trapped, should I open my heart and mind to the

possibility that we may be together someday?

 

You might need to come to terms with the fact that you are getting played by multiple Women in order to feed a need for drama. You might need to come to terms with the fact that you were used as a wake up call to the guy she really loves and is condependent with.

 

4) Or should I simply continue to be an aloof alpha male who doesn't care?

Of course, that requires some pretending.

 

Don't should on yourself. Maybe you could do with a bit of Therapy and some relationship education.

 

 

Hopefully, I have been helpful!

[smudge21]

Interesting story and nothing that's not been seen here before, especially with the whole "she went back to her go for nothing ex" routine. Oddly, I've even heard that line before myself, about an ex going back to someone she's been with for so long out of pity and fear he may do himself some harm. It's sad as it makes us feel we should do more, like it's not their decision to go back and they really want to be with us... so we should work harder. Sadly the truth is simply these women are making a decision and it's not us.

 

As I said, I've seen people go back to exs out of pity and any number or stupid reasons. My first love stayed with her abusive ex despite me offering her many ways out. You see, there's a connection there and often people confuse it with love. Your ex probably doesn't love this guy but her emotions keep her connected to him, whether they are pity or that belief that he can change and be better if she stays with him (in the same way I bet you feel you can change and help her when you hear about her sorrows and problems - even know, I bet the helping side of you is in conflict with the rational side and you're tempted to reach out and offer your support).

 

One thing I've learnt from reading these forums over the past year is that people do things for reasons that many others never understand. Relationships that seem perfect end for often no good reason and the dumpee is left with questions that never get answered. In regards your situation I think EgoJoe gives you some pretty good insight there. I would agree that there is every chance that certain people are enjoying the drama, maybe even your ex likes the ego trip of thinking you're still around. It's really hard to say what someone may be thinking or what they may be planning. All you can really do is focus on you and whatever you want to do.

 

As for me, if you do want an opinion, I would be tempted to politely offer my assistance to the ex as it comes down to the person I am, and hearing that someone is in pain or suffering mentally, would make me want to help... no matter who they are or what they've done. That's just the type of person I am. You've got to stop thinking about what may or may not be going on and decide what type of person you are... what do you really feel like doing right now?

[CarrieT]

1) She has always told me that she got back together with Teddy because of pity, not love. Is that even possible? Even if it is possible, I'm not sure I would believe it, but I guess I need to know.

Nothing is possible until she dumps the guy. I wouldn't believe anything she says until she shows you with actions.

 

2) Is it possible that feelings of guilt or pity would cause her to walk away from me even when she was in love with me? Even if it's possible, I'm not sure I want to believe it, but I guess I need to know.

There is a reason she went back to the other guy and I don't believe she has been honest with you. She is playing both of you for a reason but hasn't told you what those reasons are.

 

3) If she and her sisters (who love me) are truthful when they say she regrets her decision and feels trapped, should I open my heart and mind to the possibility that we may be together someday?

Nope. You already did that and she made the decision regardless. You met the grandmother and everything yet she went back to the ex.

 

4) Or should I simply continue to be an aloof alpha male who doesn't care? Of course, that requires some pretending.

Maintain your even strain. Healthier for you than to be involved with someone who doesn't think enough of herself than to play these games with people.

[leoc1973]

well I am assuming that you want this woman in the end because you do love her a lot. Here is what you do. Go back to how it was before you kissed. Be her friend but at the same time be the alpha male that you are! She isn't going to be able to control herself. She will end up hating this guy because she will see him as the obstacle that is keeping her from you.

 

You are going to continue dating though. She needs to see that her time is running out.

 

Deep down she loves him but if she is being honest with you its more of a sibling love. She sees someone who she probably thinks of as her brother destroying himself and knows that she has to give you up to "save" him.

 

I wouldn't give up on her yet if you really love her. I think that maybe this girl is very self sacrificing and probably a very deep person. But if she really loves you in a "soul mate" manner then she isn't going to be able to keep herself from you especially if she sees other women sniffing around.

 

I think the way to get to her is through her kids. She needs to know that the kids are going to end up ruined because of this guy.

 

However, be very careful as you seem to realize that there are some women that can look like angels on the outside but really be as manipulating and rotten on the inside as they come.

 

And before anyone tells you that its horrible to use her kids or play head games with her... Alls fair!! And the kids will be better off in the end if she is with you.

[2sunny]

She is choosing to live with what is comfortable for HER - the KNOWN- the chaos! What she learned for her comfort zone in HER choldhood is what is comfortable for HER... It IS her sense of "normal".

 

Anything GOOD or BETTER you can give her - is not HER "normal".

 

I highly doubt you want to become her project to rescue - the alcoholic druggy - because that is what she finds value in - remember her "normal"?

 

She likes to find value in rescuing. IF that's not you - it will never work for you two!

[2sunny]

And you may want to check your ego - your first paragraph shows your "sense of self" being highly out of balance.

 

Can you get busy DOING things that matter? Help others anonymously... With NO ONE knowing what "good" you are doing?

 

That would be time and energy well spent.

[smudge21]

She is choosing to live with what is comfortable for HER - the KNOWN- the chaos! What she learned for her comfort zone in HER choldhood is what is comfortable for HER... It IS her sense of "normal".

 

Anything GOOD or BETTER you can give her - is not HER "normal".

 

That is so well said and rings true for many people I've known, both male and female.

 

I always wondered about my first love, why would she chose the abusive older guy over me, when I was the perfect gent towards her at all times.

[NU42]

Thanks to everybody for the insight. Very valuable.

 

2Sunny....I appreciate your advice, but my ego isn't an issue. I'm proud to say I am a humble person and this would all be a lot easier if I could just leave and avoid the situation. But I can't, for the reasons set forth in my first paragraph. Most importantly, it's a lot easier for you to give me advice if you have some understanding about the people involved. I did the best I could in 3 sentences .....

[2sunny]

I'll take that.

 

It's just difficult not to point out the obvious - your chosen words - and the fact that it was your lead.

 

I am very astute with the chosen words on a forum as this... It's all we have to work from.

 

When it's the lead in - as opposed to WAY further down the story line - it does tell something about the person who is writing.

 

Sometimes - its left out completely - that tells a lot too...

 

Just an observation - from YOUR written words... Take it with a grain of salt. ;-)

[NU42]

2Sunny...... fair enough. Perhaps a sign of my own insecurities.

[2sunny]

2Sunny...... fair enough. Perhaps a sign of my own insecurities.

 

So - there are things you CAN change, yes?

[worldgonewrong]

NU42- I respectfully submit that you're unintentionally adding to the chaos of what was a pre-existingly chaotic situation. Withdraw and find something healthier.

The Knight in Shining Armor thing might feel good, but it means having to do battle too.

[2sunny]

Thanks to everybody for the insight. Very valuable.

 

2Sunny....I appreciate your advice, but my ego isn't an issue. I'm proud to say I am a humble person and this would all be a lot easier if I could just leave and avoid the situation. But I can't, for the reasons set forth in my first paragraph. Most importantly, it's a lot easier for you to give me advice if you have some understanding about the people involved. I did the best I could in 3 sentences .....

 

You could change jobs! That's not the only job an attorney can work.

 

If it was me - I would definitely consider getting away from that negativity she adds to your daily life.

 

Think of her like a walking tornado looking for a place to land - would you move from that tornado if you knew it was upsetting your life? You can change that - jobs are replaceable... No matter how grounded you are there... You CAN change that part of having to see her regularly.

 

Consider it!

[NU42]

2Sunny, I'm not saying I haven't considered it. However, to some extent, if I leave, so do the business sources. I like what I do and I there are a lot of other families who depend on the firm for income.

 

Here is the thing. Largely, I am over her. I still have feelings for her. I still care. But I don't cry to sleep at night. In fact, I am sleeping very well and feel great.

 

I guess I am torn. You are right when you said that her "normal" maybe chaos. She seems to be reaching out to me and I have not been listening because of my male ego. YES 2Sunny. Perhaps my ego is an issue.

 

I don't necessarily trust her, but I do trust her sister. She's struggling; she's having regrets; she's getting counseling, ect, ect. 2Sunny, the biggest question in my mind, which needs to be resolved before I can decide how to respond to all of this, is whether it is possible that she really did love me and still does. Is it possible that she really did go back to this guy because of guilty, anxiety, pain, ect., for all of those reasons?

 

My friends' give me the advice that guys are supposed to give guys. "[Expletive] her! She's a [expletive]! If she wanted to be with you she would be with you! Don't give her the time of day."

 

2Sunny, I had a rather good childhood because I was blessed to have great parents. So a lot of this is difficult for me to grasp. Is it possible that this girl really did/does love me and left a healthy loving relationship ship for an unhealthy relationship because of her traumatic childhoold? If so, maybe I have been looking at this the wrong way. Maybe it really wasn't personal. Maybe I do need to set my EGO aside and understand that she is having problems.

 

I would appreciate hearing insight from any adult children of alcoholic parents or those who have had relationships with ACOAPs. Maybe that would help me understand.....

 

2Sunny, by the way, I do a lot of charity work. But I need some work on myself......

[fucpcg]

 

2Sunny....I appreciate your advice, but my ego isn't an issue. I'm proud to say I am a humble person and this would all be a lot easier if I could just leave and avoid the situation. But I can't, for the reasons set forth in my first paragraph. Most importantly, it's a lot easier for you to give me advice if you have some understanding about the people involved. I did the best I could in 3 sentences .....

 

From my interpretation of your writing, your ego is an issue

[2sunny]

Stop taking it personally.

 

At this point - she's not gonna choose you no matter what - MAINLY because IF you don't have that chaos (the chaos she finds attractive, exciting and NORMAL to her) she will never be attracted enough.

 

It's not you that's skewed - its her!

 

She may love you but it's not enough - mainly because your world is completely UNFAMILIAR to her. She needs to fix others. She needs to be in a frantic state to be in her "comfort zone". She needs a man to treat her terribly for her to sense what is normal.

 

If that's not you - GOOD!

 

She is NOT the right match for you! YOU can't undo HER childhood. That is up to her to get past - yet she may not even realize how unhealthy her childhood was. And you can't make her! That would be disasterous!

 

Let go of ANY thought of her. Start dating a healthy gal! Do not speak to her - you don't need to watch a train wreck go down... She just wants you to be her doormat to cry on. She's got a man - tell her to talk to HIM!

 

You can't save her from herself - I can guarantee you that!

[wilsonx]

2sunny- you have no idea what you are talking about. Stop labeling people "CHAOS/BAD". Stop focusing on the past and focus on the present. The ONLY thing we know of HER PAST is she cheated on her boyfriend with someone she worked with! You are taking the word of a Girlfriend stealer as TRUTH.

 

Its called an attachment. Thats why she went back. If she was with him for 9 years, I am sure there are 394854859430398485 positive reasons to her 7 negative reasons for going back to the relationship.

 

When a dumper breaks up with the dumpee, in order to convince themselves to do it, they do whats called "PAINTING THEM BLACK" They only focus on the negatives of the other person in order to self validate the breakup to themselves and others especially when cheating and infatuation is involved.

 

Lawyer boy here broke the cardinal rule of never messing with another man's woman and got burned. "HOW THEY COME IS HOW THEY GO"

Edited February 26, 2012 by wilsonx

[2sunny]

2sunny- you have no idea what you are talking about. Stop labeling people "CHAOS/BAD". Stop focusing on the past and focus on the present. The ONLY thing we know of HER PAST is she cheated on her boyfriend with someone she worked with! You are taking the word of a Girlfriend stealer as TRUTH.

 

Its called an attachment. Thats why she went back. If she was with him for 9 years, I am sure there are 394854859430398485 positive reasons to her 7 negative reasons for going back to the relationship.

 

When a dumper breaks up with the dumpee, in order to convince themselves to do it, they do whats called "PAINTING THEM BLACK" They only focus on the negatives of the other person in order to self validate the breakup to themselves and others especially when cheating and infatuation is involved.

 

Lawyer boy here broke the cardinal rule of never messing with another man's woman and got burned. "HOW THEY COME IS HOW THEY GO"

 

Geez, Wilson. I can read, did you?

 

These two had an intense relationship for a year.

 

She went back to her druggy Prior BF.

 

Look at her past too. She went back because she's familiar with that. She may have thought she wasn't deserving of this OP... Many who rescue think they CAN save some... But it rarely works while feeling balanced.

[leoc1973]

I have to go with wilson on this one. She was with the guy 9 years she labeled him as a druggie/video game addict/abuser or whatever but ya never know because she was looking for a reason to validate what she was doing. And guess what I am sure she didn't want the OP to know that she was just a rotten cheater so she made it look like she was some kind of victim and this guy pounced on another mans woman.

 

Its so funny how self centered humans are thinking no way she would never do it to me! I am the greatest!

 

This "druggie" Probably was a stay at home dad(nothing wrong with it these days) might have had the house spotless cooked and took care of the kids so god forbid he took a few moments to himself to sit down with a video game after having screaming kids all day. My brother is a stay at home dad and he works his ass off with those kids all day long gets 3 hours of sleep a night while his wife is always out visiting friends or working he is stuck with kids going nuts all day.

 

My ex did this "painting it black" with me. I worked full time went to school full time took care of my sick mom and still did the cooking and cleaning and home repairs while my ex was having every damn guy out there telling her "woe if I were your man I would make time for you". You would have thought that I was out drinking and having fun with friends the way she made me sound to people. I actually had one of her friends tell me that I was a piece of **** cause I never wanted to spent time with her. LOL well maybe if she had cooked or cleaned I wouldn't have been falling asleep with my face in my books knowing I had to work in 3 hours.

 

So try to read deeper into what people say on this site cause from everyones point of view they are always the good guy. When it boils down to the OP was girlfriend stealing while her probably great husband was home changing diapers!

[NU42]

Dear Lord, I didn't join this forum for people to tell me what I want to hear. I'm here for advice, whether I like to hear it or not, which is the reason 2Sunny is hitting reality. That's what I need.

 

Likewise, I don't need to be insulted by leoc and wilson. Girlfriends are girlfriends and wives are wives. I didn't fall in love with somebody else's wife. I fell in love with another guy's girlfriend. And I didn't steal her. They weren't married ...and still aren't married ....for a reason. It was her choice to break up with him when she started to date me. Likewise, it was her choice to break up with me and get back together with him.

 

Ummmm. Yeah. Before you start painting this guy as a "stay at home dad" rather than an unemployed addict, answer this question. Have your kids ever asked "is Daddy going to kill Mommy"? Does that sound like a swell stay-at-home dad? Should I post the pictures of the holes in the walls of her house from his fist? Or perhaps I need to post the actual record of the alcohol and/or specific drugs clogging his brain.

 

I never claimed to be perfect. She broke up with me. I let her go. And now I'm on this forum because I am confused. She is struggling and seems to be reaching out to me. I'm just trying to figure out whether to hang in there to help her or to ignore her.

 

If Wilson is right and we should "never mess with another man's woman", we'd all be married to the girl we started dating when we were 14 years old.

[NXS]

Dear Lord, I didn't join this forum for people to tell me what I want to hear. I'm here for advice, whether I like to hear it or not, which is the reason 2Sunny is hitting reality. That's what I need.

 

Likewise, I don't need to be insulted by leoc and wilson. Girlfriends are girlfriends and wives are wives. I didn't fall in love with somebody else's wife. I fell in love with another guy's girlfriend. And I didn't steal her. They weren't married ...and still aren't married ....for a reason. It was her choice to break up with him when she started to date me. Likewise, it was her choice to break up with me and get back together with him.

 

Ummmm. Yeah. Before you start painting this guy as a "stay at home dad" rather than an unemployed addict, answer this question. Have your kids ever asked "is Daddy going to kill Mommy"? Does that sound like a swell stay-at-home dad? Should I post the pictures of the holes in the walls of her house from his fist? Or perhaps I need to post the actual record of the alcohol and/or specific drugs clogging his brain.

 

I never claimed to be perfect. She broke up with me. I let her go. And now I'm on this forum because I am confused. She is struggling and seems to be reaching out to me. I'm just trying to figure out whether to hang in there to help her or to ignore her.

 

If Wilson is right and we should "never mess with another man's woman", we'd all be married to the girl we started dating when we were 14 years old.

 

Ok I'll take a shot at this, yes you have an ego problem anyone who describes themselves as an "aloof alpha" in their OP has an ego problem, don't even try to tell me this is an objective statement.

 

Now guess what, this woman chose a loser abusive alcoholic over you and that must sting. So part of you wants to understand why she done this. Well you already said she's a co-dependant so there's all kinds of emotional reasons why she chose him and it's an emotional black hole. For one thing he's safe and controllable so he'll probably never abandon her. It kind of reminds me of the women who date these chronically obese men who can't even get out of the bed. They're always there and fulfill a need for these women.

 

Now you're getting the message that she regrets her decision and that may be true, perhaps she got a huge wake up when she went back to him and has now "seen the light". However you have to ask yourself is she really worth it? The boyfriend is always going to be in the picture, even if it's just issues relating to their children and this is going to continue to be a roller-coaster for a long long time. If you wan't to "rescue" her then be prepared for a lot of drama and perhaps a not very good ending.

[wilsonx]

 

If Wilson is right and we should "never mess with another man's woman", we'd all be married to the girl we started dating when we were 14 years old.

 

If you didnt mess around with another man's woman, you wouldnt be crying on this forum about it and how she left you for a "loser" (in your eyes).

 

You played with fire, and you got burned, now you know not to play with fire. Move on!

 

Now, we need to stop labelling people codependent, bad pasts, etc. People learn from the mistakes they make.

Edited February 27, 2012 by wilsonx

[2sunny]

If you didnt mess around with another man's woman, you wouldnt be crying on this forum about it and how she left you for a "loser" (in your eyes).

 

You played with fire, and you got burned, now you know not to play with fire. Move on!

 

Now, we need to stop labelling people codependent, bad pasts, etc. People learn from the mistakes they make.

 

Reading "move on" is just ... Grrr.

 

In my world I use the term " move forward" which indicates to grow and learn from what has happened - but move to be a better person from any experience - especially negative ones.

 

To me "move on" is kinda like saying " shove off now" or even "kiss off"

 

I hope I'm interpreting your use of words incorrectly Wilson - but every time you say that to posters here - its like being cut off at the knees.

[2sunny]

There is no need for you to listen to her personal issues- that's for her boyfriend! If she does it - remind her that her complaints and problems should only be shared with HIM!

 

Sometimes my exH tries that... And I quickly remind him that he has a new wife - one that he should be focused on instead of sharing personal stuff with me!

 

Set that firm boundary - she still thinks you are her shoulder to cry on - she chose him - she should honor her choice.

 

Kinda makes you wonder if she talked trash behind your back while she dated you, doesn't it?