2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I AM currently seeing a counselor and he has been great for me. She refuses to go because apparently this is ALL my fault. Maybe it is. Don't know. All I know, again, is that there were some signs there. That's all I am saying. She has given NO definitive proof, other than her word, that nothing was going on. At this point in time, I have to believe. She never goes out at night, if she does, it is usually with me or the kids to one of their political events. During the day, she usually has at least one kid in tow, etc., etc. It has been drilled into my head my ENTIRE life to trust your gut. Right now, it appears, that my gut was not right..............hence the pickle that I am in. I'm sure your gut is right. She's put YOU on the defensive... There is value in that! As long as you feel you need to be defensive - you aren't doing any offense work. Get busy looking for evidence. You have work to do. If there were NO PROBLEM - there wouldn't be any reason for offense or defensive actions/parts. But obviously there is reason - you need to find out what the reason is! Look at her phone bill, email and where she's been and what money has been spent! You also said she's dressing differently too - that is another red flag that something IS BREWING! No boob job! Stand firm on that too!
frozensprouts Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 My wife has never said that she is not in love with me. Even though she is incredibly pissed right now, the sex has NOT dropped off (maybe just a hair) and she STILL says she loves me............numerous times a day. I don't know how women actwhen they cheat, but I do know how men act. Maybe it's the same. When my husband was cheating he would get really angry with me and pick fights for no reason ( and I mean absolutely no reason). Things that didn't bother him before were now huge, big deals. He was secretive with his facebook and emails ( he was using them to keep in touch with the other woman), and because I knew he spent a lot of time communicating with her, he tried very hard to make her seem like a "good friend who was just going through a hard time". he stopped saying he loved me, wouldn't hug or kiss me unless I asked, and any kind of intimacy ( other than sex) dropped way off. He was also short tempered with our kids ( which he had never been before) I had no idea what was going on, but I knew something was "off".I chalked it up to stress from work....boy was i wrong he also seemed really anxious and like there was something on his mind all the time. He'd stay up late at night online, and shut the computer off when I came into the room.
frozensprouts Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I am going through individual counseling right now. And you almost quoted word for word what she has told me several times after the insinuation.........she has been nursing or pregnant for almost 17 years........she is ready to move on with the rest of her life. But...........the change in attitude, dress, sex, etc., etc., was WAY over the top.........something I was not used to. i can't say for sure that she is not cheating, but is it possible that she is "re-discovering herself as a woman" for the first time in nearly two decades? Men do it too ( mis life crisis...but they don't rediscover themselves as women...that would be a whole 'nother thread:laugh:) Some do cheat, but some just need, for themselves, to feel "feminine" again... have you shown her that you appreciate her "new look" and find it attractive? Tried taking her out for a romantic meal, etc. and tell her how nice she looks? ( this isn't a "quick fix", but it may help)
xxoo Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I AM currently seeing a counselor and he has been great for me. She refuses to go because apparently this is ALL my fault. Maybe it is. Don't know. All I know, again, is that there were some signs there. That's all I am saying. She refuses? That's troubling. What does your individual counselor say about that?
Author Under_the_Radar Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 i can't say for sure that she is not cheating, but is it possible that she is "re-discovering herself as a woman" for the first time in nearly two decades? Men do it too ( mis life crisis...but they don't rediscover themselves as women...that would be a whole 'nother thread:laugh:) Some do cheat, but some just need, for themselves, to feel "feminine" again... have you shown her that you appreciate her "new look" and find it attractive? Tried taking her out for a romantic meal, etc. and tell her how nice she looks? ( this isn't a "quick fix", but it may help) There has never been ANY mistrust OR unfaithfulness in our marriage, ever! I have shown her that I do like the look (who wouldn't, I have a hot 40 year old woman with the body of an 18 year old). I guess I kind of thought that if someone, someone who you live and sleep with nonetheless, is wanting to do these changes, you would think that I would be involved in the decision being that I AM the one paying for it ALL. Maybe that is not the way it works. I found out about it AFTER the clothes were bought, AFTER the plastic surgery consultations were set up, etc. Maybe this is a monster that I have created. I have a good career, make a good living and I have always given her what she has wanted. She has always joked, in the past, why would I leave you? There would be no one out there that worships the ground I walk on like you do (her words not mine)................
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 There has never been ANY mistrust OR unfaithfulness in our marriage, ever! I have shown her that I do like the look (who wouldn't, I have a hot 40 year old woman with the body of an 18 year old). I guess I kind of thought that if someone, someone who you live and sleep with nonetheless, is wanting to do these changes, you would think that I would be involved in the decision being that I AM the one paying for it ALL. Maybe that is not the way it works. I found out about it AFTER the clothes were bought, AFTER the plastic surgery consultations were set up, etc. Maybe this is a monster that I have created. I have a good career, make a good living and I have always given her what she has wanted. She has always joked, in the past, why would I leave you? There would be no one out there that worships the ground I walk on like you do (her words not mine)................ But her actions did lead to mistrust - yes? Since she did all that WITHOUT your knowledge - she is mistrusting, no? Why didn't she ask for YOUR input? On the clothes FIRST... On the consultation FIRST? Oh, she went behind your back - but you are saying that she doesn't DO that - but she has shown evidence that she does DO that... So which is it- which is it that she WANTS you to believe? What is YOUR EVIDENCE showing you? I think if you look at your EVIDENCE - you will get a better idea of what is really happening here.
Author Under_the_Radar Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 But her actions did lead to mistrust - yes? Since she did all that WITHOUT your knowledge - she is mistrusting, no? Why didn't she ask for YOUR input? On the clothes FIRST... On the consultation FIRST? Oh, she went behind your back - but you are saying that she doesn't DO that - but she has shown evidence that she does DO that... So which is it- which is it that she WANTS you to believe? What is YOUR EVIDENCE showing you? I think if you look at your EVIDENCE - you will get a better idea of what is really happening here. Honestly.............don't know what to believe right now..............thinking that I would like to get drunk.............but I am not a drinking man Lol...........
JazzyFox Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 There has never been ANY mistrust OR unfaithfulness in our marriage, ever! WTF??? You accused her of cheating on you??? Where is the trust there???
Author Under_the_Radar Posted February 23, 2012 Author Posted February 23, 2012 WTF??? You accused her of cheating on you??? Where is the trust there??? Up until then.............sorry, should have clarified...........
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Honestly.............don't know what to believe right now..............thinking that I would like to get drunk.............but I am not a drinking man Lol........... No drinking - that takes away your clarity and logical reasoning - which you need in a big way right now! Have you checked on her phone and computer? When there's nothing to hide - people hide nothing! Look at what she's been up to before you ask her ANYTHING further! Get busy! You need evidence of what is REALLY going on at this point!
JazzyFox Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Alright, ladies and gentlemen ... I will say this one more time. (adamant and 2sunny, this one is for you ) Under_Radar ... you need help. You are confused. Get counselling, alone AND with her. Your two threads always started out with "why does she need ... (fill in the blanks)" (new boobs, rehashing past fights) Despite having all those kids, you just don't seem to be very connected with your wife, you misunderstand her intentions, you don't trust her. She also seems to have changed, or being in the process of some change. Shifting your focus to your "cheating wife" and spending your days as a private investigator (as adamant and 2sunny would have you do) into her affairs is not only UNTRUSTWORTHY ... but also shifts the blame back to her. You are biasing the outcome before you begin. Stop being a victim. Deal with the facts. Fact is, you have no proof but your own insecurities. A new wardrobe does not make a cheater. Your poor wife could just be looking to rebuild her self-esteem and body image as a woman, and no longer as a milk-cow. Go to counselling to build the communciation channel and understand where your wife is coming from.
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Before he assumes there's nothing going on - he needs to rule that out - by looking at the evidence! Evidence never lies. Either he will find nothing - or he will find something... But he needs to find out for sure which it is...something or nothing. 1
JazzyFox Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Before he assumes there's nothing going on - he needs to rule that out - by looking at the evidence! Evidence never lies. Either he will find nothing - or he will find something... But he needs to find out for sure which it is...something or nothing. Well, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. As far as I am concerned, focusing on gathering evidence is DEFLECTING the issue. Maybe Under_Radar can give us specific reasons he "suspects" her for cheating. (of course, I say this tongue-in-cheek, because he already apologized profusely to her for having suspected her erroneously, and has already defended his claim on LS that she did not deserve that accusation, and posted this thread initially because he was tired of her constantly bringing it up again ... so I have to ask the question "well, WHICH is it??? ... but whatever!)
2sunny Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 When a long term marriage starts to CHANGE at a rapid pace - there's usually a reason. Asking what that reason is - there's nothing wrong with that... BUT... The OP has stated that he completely trusted his wife - only to then state the contrary - that she has recently gone behind his back - sneaky behavior at best. THAT is now bringing questions to light... Because her trusted self - trusting behavior isn't so trusting now. There is reason to find out where her truth is... BUT because SHE is blame shifting to HIM - that definitely makes it ALL seem much more suspicious! Knowing what he really IS dealing with - there's nothing wrong with that! 1
JazzyFox Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Foxy Fox, you seem very invested in the notion that OP's wife is innocent of wrong doing. It's not clear why you're her defender. But: cheating aside--she REFUSES to go to marriage counseling. THAT in itself shows a lack of caring and a lack of commitment to the marriage. She blames it ALL on OP. That too is a lack of caring and commitment, and blame shifting. Because even if there is no cheating, they are both equally responsible for the climate of the marriage. Well adamant, I am a bit more nuanced in my thinking. I do not defend OP's wife, as I do not know her or anything about her (and her pancake boobs). That said, I am disturbed by OP's flipfloppiness and misdirection in his threads and responses to the postings. In this context, I believe it is inappropriate to counsel him to become a PI on his wife and look for signs of infidelity. He needs to spend that energy working on himself and becoming a PI into his own motives. Yes, I do believe they need MC and that he needs IC. I do not come to the same conclusion that you did (ie. That she REFUSES to go), but I gather that she doesn't see the need. I suspect that the OP is not very clear with his wife on his expectations or intentions ... much like he does on LS ... he probably spends a lot of time misdirecting, getting angry, and then begging for forgiveness. None of these attributes are very attractive. Regardless, I will not enable (like you have) his propensity for petty jealousy and victim behaviour. Until Under_Radar explains to us the specifics that led him to suspect his wife for infidelity, I just will not entertain the possibility. I do not engage in suppositions and possibilities, especially when damning the potentially innocent. 2
2sunny Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 OP - what was it that your W did that made you suspicious? Be specific!
Author Under_the_Radar Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 No drinking - that takes away your clarity and logical reasoning - which you need in a big way right now! Have you checked on her phone and computer? When there's nothing to hide - people hide nothing! Look at what she's been up to before you ask her ANYTHING further! Get busy! You need evidence of what is REALLY going on at this point! For the record, I have passwords to EVERYTHING! Phones, e-mails, computer, everything.
2sunny Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 For the record, I have passwords to EVERYTHING! Phones, e-mails, computer, everything. And have you checked? What was happening that caused your suspicion?
Author Under_the_Radar Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 And have you checked? What was happening that caused your suspicion? What caused my suspicion was the sudden change in wardrobe (nothing revealing, just WAY different than what she was wearing during child bearing years), more makeup/spending more time in the mirror, working out, and a GREATLY increased drive (she willingly agreed to try things that I have been asking her to do for many years). This may not seem like much on the surface, but it was a HUGE change in my eyes (and my children's) nonetheless. My 'gut' told me something was amiss.
JazzyFox Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 OMG I cant believe it. Poor lady pops out 7 kids, hits 40, and wants to start improving her image ... and you think she is cheating on you??? Thats it? Thats the only evidence? No secret calls in the bedroom, no unusual schedule or comings-and-goings, no lengthy and secretive periods at the computer? Unbelievable. And yet you come here and continue to accuse her of infidelity and claim that you have proof because you have all the passwords. If I were her, I would divorce you. And take you for every last dime. You dont deserve her, pancake boobs and all. 5
frozensprouts Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 wow...just wow... you have no real basis for suspicion, other than she is trying to take better care of herself and your sex life has improved ( BTW...it could be because she isn't planning on having any more kids, so she doesn't have to worry about getting pregnant any more) and rather than express your concerns by asking her what's up with all the changes, you accuse her of cheating on you, and then wonder why she was hurt and upset? She has even given you all of her passwords...she must trust you a lot to do so, and this is how you repay that trust? So if you do "snoop around" through everything and find nothing, will that be enough for you to trust her? When you install a GPS tracker on her vehicle so you can keep track of her, will that be enough? When you install a key logger on her computer and find nothing, will that be enough? When will she have done enough and proven herself innocent enough for you t trust her? Seriously, look at this objectively. All she has done is worked on improving her appearance ( which maybe she did to try and please you and be the best wife she can be for you) and wants more sex with YOU. And this leads you to the conclusion that she is cheating? Maybe she is, I don't know...but I wonder why this is your number one possibility...why aren't you asking HER about the changes and why she is making them before jumping to conclusions when she seems to have been more than willing to be upfront and open with you? Why are you asking a bunch of strangers on the internet who don't know her? If I were in her shoes, and my husband accused me of cheating, and to make him feel better I gave him my passwords, etc., and then he tried to make me feel guilty for being hurt....I think that would be like a knife in the heart. 5
Author Under_the_Radar Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 wow...just wow... you have no real basis for suspicion, other than she is trying to take better care of herself and your sex life has improved ( BTW...it could be because she isn't planning on having any more kids, so she doesn't have to worry about getting pregnant any more) and rather than express your concerns by asking her what's up with all the changes, you accuse her of cheating on you, and then wonder why she was hurt and upset? She has even given you all of her passwords...she must trust you a lot to do so, and this is how you repay that trust? So if you do "snoop around" through everything and find nothing, will that be enough for you to trust her? When you install a GPS tracker on her vehicle so you can keep track of her, will that be enough? When you install a key logger on her computer and find nothing, will that be enough? When will she have done enough and proven herself innocent enough for you t trust her? Seriously, look at this objectively. All she has done is worked on improving her appearance ( which maybe she did to try and please you and be the best wife she can be for you) and wants more sex with YOU. And this leads you to the conclusion that she is cheating? Maybe she is, I don't know...but I wonder why this is your number one possibility...why aren't you asking HER about the changes and why she is making them before jumping to conclusions when she seems to have been more than willing to be upfront and open with you? Why are you asking a bunch of strangers on the internet who don't know her? If I were in her shoes, and my husband accused me of cheating, and to make him feel better I gave him my passwords, etc., and then he tried to make me feel guilty for being hurt....I think that would be like a knife in the heart. I know, I know. HUGE mistake on my part. I know that now. Hence the reason I am in counseling to get what is between my ears cleaned out!! The reason why it was my number one possibility is because I listened to some REALLY bad advice from someone who I thought was a good friend and the internet. According to 'DR' Google, showing increased desire and wanting to try new things in bed is a 'telltale' sign of someone feeling guilty. Sadly, I know that is not the case. The repair work has been done and I know that it will take some time. I am willing to fight for my marriage and my family and EARN back her trust............ 1
xxoo Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Radar, if she's NOT cheating (and it doesn't sound like she is), you have shot yourself in the foot, and you have NO business being short tempered with her while she gets over it. You have everything: a beautiful wife, great mom, wants to look good for you and give you lots of sex, and you manage to screw it up? 2
JazzyFox Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 The reason why it was my number one possibility is because I listened to some REALLY bad advice from someone who I thought was a good friend and the internet. According to 'DR' Google, showing increased desire and wanting to try new things in bed is a 'telltale' sign of someone feeling guilty. Sadly, I know that is not the case. It is not ALWAYS the case. And it can not be viewed in isolation from other factors. I think you should sell your computer. 1
Author Under_the_Radar Posted February 24, 2012 Author Posted February 24, 2012 It is not ALWAYS the case. And it can not be viewed in isolation from other factors. I think you should sell your computer. I KNOW I screwed up big time!! I am VERY thankful that my wife is very understanding, has forgiven me, and after what I have done, actually WANTS to be with me!! Thanks for all the feedback!
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