For The Men

[EgoJoe]

I have a question for all of the Divorce/ing/d men in this forum and as I get ready to date again I have to ask.

 

Are Women always prone to emotional instability no matter what age?

 

Women who read this: I am not trying to be sexist, stereotypical or generalize; I want to try and get a consensus from Older men with experience in marriage etc.

[Philosoraptor]

Everyone is prone to emotional instability at any age. It just comes down to picking out a mature person. I've met some very mature young ladies and some very mature older women. It's just using your people picker correctly and not ignoring the flags early on.

[2.50 a gallon]

I am several years retired, so in short have many years to watch the failings of many relationships, including my own marriage 30 years ago.

 

What I have learned over the past 30 years is for the most part we men just don't get it when it comes to a woman's emotions.

 

What you label "emotional insecurity" many women would label men as "emotionally immature".

 

I can't tell you the number of times that I have watched a male friend totally torpedo his relationship with his once very loving wife, by never getting past the "Me Tarzan, You Jane" stage.

 

By their very nature women are much more emotional than we men. Which in turn means over the long run they have more emotional needs than we men. Once you fail to start meeting her needs, she is going to fill that void by looking elsewhere to fill that vacuum.

 

And as for age, yes there is some maturing, but for the most part their personal emotional needs do not change all that much. So it does not matter whether they are in their 20's or in their 60's once they have lost that loving feeling, they are gone, and do not look back.

Edited February 23, 2012 by 2.50 a gallon
missing word

[maybealone]

So I'm a woman and probably shouldn't even answer this, but I am curious about your definition of emotional instability. I think I matured a little late in life (like in my 30s), and before then I was a bit emotional. By that I mean I took things way too seriously and had meltdowns over things I now know were completely unimportant. So in my case, getting older simply mellowed me out and helped me realize that life is too short to worry about the little things.

 

But when a man calls a woman emotionally unstable, I never know what he means. It could be that he shows up with the wrong brand of milk from the store she throws the carton at him, screams, and makes his life miserable for days. Or it could mean that he forgets her birthday, works late that day, and never even calls her and he can't figure out why she's crying because she should just suck it up and move on. Or it's somewhere in between.

 

So if you want to provide an example, I would love to know what your idea of emotional instability is.

[Woggle]

There are some who know how to keep control of their emotions and I suggest you seek them out. Get a woman who thinks with her head and not her heart.

[LZ2000]

But when a man calls a woman emotionally unstable, I never know what he means.

 

I make this post in good faith:

 

What "emotionally unstable" may mean, accordingly to the poster who posted it is: Emotionally dependent.

[EgoJoe]

I'd like to hear more about the "Me Tarzan, You Jane" stage 2.50 if you don't mind. I'd also like to hear about the emotionally insecure vs immature. I was merely referring to the whimsical aspects emotion and the negative side of the "instability". How do you meet a Woman's emotional needs when she NEVER mentions them or changes them while saying everything is fine and nothing is wrong?

 

 

 

For the other posters I mean when Women who lens reality through their emotions and will act accordingly (sometimes seemingly crazily) without regard for others. At some point this can become ridiculous with denial, projection, deflection etc. No consistency to their behavior what so ever. Also, the belief that is perfectly OK to say one thing and mean another as if a guy is supposed to figure out when she is talking in code and when she is not.

 

I know that there are some obtuse guys too but I'm referring to this specific type of behavior in Women, it is very easily identifiable and very uniquely Female.

 

I'm not just talking about in terms of a relationship either.

Edited February 23, 2012 by EgoJoe

[worldgonewrong]

I think there's a general imbalance in expectations between men and women.

Women demand more, and men's needs are pretty easily met.

I'm not saying women are wired that way - far from it - but societal influence has helped shape that. If a man can't cut it somehow, they're just losers; women are rarely considered losers.

[EgoJoe]

I think there's a general imbalance in expectations between men and women.

Women demand more, and men's needs are pretty easily met.

I'm not saying women are wired that way - far from it - but societal influence has helped shape that. If a man can't cut it somehow, they're just losers; women are rarely considered losers.

 

 

Say you're a dude who is stressed out of his mind and looking for some extra support. If you don't have an easily met need do you then become needy just for having a need for some extra support now and then?

 

I mean that is a whole other issue but I'm really hoping to get over some of my final emotional hurdles and misunderstandings. I figure a forum where people have learned things the hard way would probably be better than a lighter natured forum.

 

I've started to get back out there and while I could do the whole affable PUA routine. I'm looking for a deeper and more solid connection with Women.

 

As bitter as I might seem I'm realistic and pragmatic about things above all else.

 

I read the whole "next time" story thread that was posted and I'm totally with that.

[smokey bear]

I'd like to hear more about the "Me Tarzan, You Jane" stage 2.50 if you don't mind. I'd also like to hear about the emotionally insecure vs immature. I was merely referring to the whimsical aspects emotion and the negative side of the "instability". How do you meet a Woman's emotional needs when she NEVER mentions them or changes them while saying everything is fine and nothing is wrong?

 

 

QUOTE]

 

 

ahh, its something that comes with emotional and cognitive maturity

 

before gigs, i was like this, one of the major things i learned during gigs was that men arent mind reader, you have to tell them what u want and be plain and simple about it, it wasnt just relationships, i learned to do it in all aspects of life where as before i was very much as you described above.

 

Maturity comes at all ages, as someone said above u have to learn to spot the mature ones.

[coopster]

As bitter as I might seem I'm realistic and pragmatic about things above all else.

 

QUOTE]

 

I can see where you`re coming from. Maybe it`s just you and i have just met and been with the type you are talking about?

 

Maybe it`s just this day and age. `women` seem to want to have the upper hand but evolution doesn`t work that quickly.

 

Maybe thats why so many fail. ( marriages) .

 

We are mammals/ animals, and the basic need to survive in all animals is to reproduce, as much as possible, the strongest survive.

 

Alas we as humans have evolved to quickly for our own good, although our basic need ` reproduce to make sure our species continues`, our brains have become too evolved to deal with it.

 

Ever since we thought` f**k it..i`m tired of walking on all 4`s, and living in tree`s, i`m gonna live on the ground from now on AND i`m gonna walk on 2...yes 2!! legs ` . .....it`s gone downhill for us as a species.

 

My point? `emotional instability` , yes they are....at any age. But that goes for the males too. You included OP

 

Sign of the times i`m afraid

[smokey bear]

I'd like to hear more about the "Me Tarzan, You Jane" stage 2.50 if you don't mind. I'd also like to hear about the emotionally insecure vs immature. I was merely referring to the whimsical aspects emotion and the negative side of the "instability". How do you meet a Woman's emotional needs when she NEVER mentions them or changes them while saying everything is fine and nothing is wrong?

 

 

QUOTE]

 

 

ahh, its something that comes with emotional and cognitive maturity

 

before gigs, i was like this, one of the major things i learned during gigs was that men arent mind reader, you have to tell them what u want and be plain and simple about it, it wasnt just relationships, i learned to do it in all aspects of life where as before i was very much as you described above.

 

Maturity comes at all ages, as someone said above u have to learn to spot the mature ones.

 

 

I can back this up by the way, especially if you want it referred to maturity aka gigs whatever,

 

I believe wilson is expierencing gigs and he has a post on here where he learns exactly what you just described above, at the point he posted it he didnt have a clue about gigs it was a natural learning.

[coopster]

I'd like to hear more about the "Me Tarzan, You Jane" stage 2.50 if you don't mind. I'd also like to hear about the emotionally insecure vs immature. I was merely referring to the whimsical aspects emotion and the negative side of the "instability". How do you meet a Woman's emotional needs when she NEVER mentions them or changes them while saying everything is fine and nothing is wrong?

 

 

QUOTE]

 

 

ahh, its something that comes with emotional and cognitive maturity

 

before gigs, i was like this, one of the major things i learned during gigs was that men arent mind reader, you have to tell them what u want and be plain and simple about it, it wasnt just relationships, i learned to do it in all aspects of life where as before i was very much as you described above.

 

Maturity comes at all ages, as someone said above u have to learn to spot the mature ones.

 

i disagree. tell them what you want? If they truly loved you and respected you, they will know what you want!

 

So tired of hearing about GIGS too.. It`s just an excuse. Its just another reason why our hearts can`t keep up with evolution

[worldgonewrong]

Say you're a dude who is stressed out of his mind and looking for some extra support. If you don't have an easily met need do you then become needy just for having a need for some extra support now and then?

 

Yeah, that's the big problem.

If you expose that stress, you're given the raised eyebrow -- oh sure, there might be some support, but there's pressure that you, as a man, aren't making it the way you should. Terrible pressure.

 

There's a reason why there's no female equivalent for the expression "man up". Think about it.

[coopster]

worldgonewrong... exactly !!!

[fucpcg]

But when a man calls a woman emotionally unstable, I never know what he means. It could be that he shows up with the wrong brand of milk from the store she throws the carton at him, screams, and makes his life miserable for days. Or it could mean that he forgets her birthday, works late that day, and never even calls her and he can't figure out why she's crying because she should just suck it up and move on. Or it's somewhere in between.

 

So if you want to provide an example, I would love to know what your idea of emotional instability is.

 

My ex brought soo much luggage into our relationship from her failed marriage/relationship of like 16 years. Our first two months she was alcohol dependent, she was very unpleasant when drinking, she couldn't drop her friends and partying to be with me, she would be out at night and start shooting me texts about what an ******* I was while I was sitting home watching a movie minding my own business, would try to show up drunk at my house for sex after spending all her free time away from kids with people who were NOT me... It was bad, really, really bad. Regardless, when we were together we were like best friends (when not drinking, I don't drink), I loved her 3 boys, we had a great thing between us. That made me try over and over to make it work. When it just wasn't going in the right direction anymore, I broke up with her.

 

For two weeks she begged me back, she's sorry, she needs me, her kids love me, she starts telling me she loves me, please give her another chance. I did under one simple condition, quit drinking, and she did, and we had an amazing relationship bloom from that day on. We talked thru everything, and we never looked back. I never denied her the chance to talk and work things out with me, and once we did, all that happened those first two months were thrown out the window, I could care less about our initial struggles, only where we were going together moving forward.

 

Flash forward about 8 more months, honestly I started struggling. I was reliving some bad experiences I had with previous girlfriends, I was under extreme pressure from work, lost a big contract that put my business (and house, pets, etc) in jeopardy, and honestly I was not the best of boyfriends. I struggled really, really bad at that point, without intention, and not fully even knowing how bad I was struggling.

 

She left me, refused to talk to me period, started hanging out with all her party girlfriends again, with all of them running around telling everyone they knew how terrible a boyfriend I was to her, how I abused her, how I tried to control her (the made her quit drinking party), basically what a piece of **** I was as a human being. After a month of emailing her, once a weekend to request a chance to sit and talk that weekend, she got soo fed up with me that she wrote me an email telling me every single thing I got wrong in the relationship from day 1 (maybe 25% very valid, 75% gibberish, but all of it I never heard her express ever), then told me she was blocking my emails and phone so that I could never contact her again, because I don't deserve for her to ever see me or speak to me again.

 

That's my example. Maybe I am a piece of $hit boyfriend who really didn't deserve a second chance, who knows. I've tried to answer that question nonstop for a year now. But wouldn't I have at least deserved the same respect I gave her in return, a chance to talk? Additionally, when I stuck by her, it was when we had nothing but 2 months of disaster under our belts, with no good history. She left me after a year of (mostly) amazing history between us.

 

WTF happened?! I still don't get it.

Edited February 23, 2012 by fucpcg

[pteromom]

I think it has a lot to do with the type of women some guys pick. Some guys are drawn to women who are very sexually expressive and intense romantically. In general, women who are very intense and passionate when it comes to sex and romance are also that way when it comes to anger and despair. A highly emotional person is going to be that way no matter the emotion.

 

Guys can also be drawn to women who need them. There's something that feels really good in rescuing someone and being needed. But it gets old in a relationship when you end up with a cling-on who wants to be attached at the hip.

 

If you want to find a woman who is not "emotionally unstable", look past the ones that catch your eye to the ones you may deem boring. Sometimes stability can be disguised as dullness. Look for someone who has their stuff together - financially, career-wise, friendships, family... and you'll likely find someone who isn't an emotional wreck.

[fucpcg]

I am going on 42. I know rock solid girls in their younger 20's, absolute train wrecks in their 40's and up. My closest relationships are mostly with women, so I do know plenty of rock solid, emotionally stable, truly amazing women. In fact, it took quite a few them holding my hand to somehow keep my sanity after this recent breakup, as I still stuggle with what happened.

 

Age, I have learned, is never the indicator of maturity, only the opportunity.

[EgoJoe]

I've seen one that had everything else together but still went unhinged. I'm not free of blame but I guess it is never a safe bet.

 

Maybe my "emotionally unstable" label was too harsh. I was mostly referring to having no logical filter. It seems a common theme that when a guy goes through his struggles it has a huge effect on a Woman though.

[Steadfast]

Everyone is prone to emotional instability at any age. It just comes down to picking out a mature person. I've met some very mature young ladies and some very mature older women. It's just using your people picker correctly and not ignoring the flags early on.

 

Best post on the subject I've read. People they have to fix themselves.

 

Understanding that women are different than men (but not really) helps. Most I've met seem to be intensely logical; either that, or it's the only way they're comfortable expressing themselves. At least...in the beginning.

 

IMO, for divorced men or otherwise, dating should be approached with friendship in mind first, and romance second. When the time comes...either quickly or not so much, when it's time to be romantic it is truly best to be sincere about it. Being respectful towards someone (anyone) is a great way to begin a 'stable' relationship. One red flag I've witnessed very often is; kindness misinterpreted for manipulation. If she's thinking 'what's he up to?" then you should be thinking where the door is.

[EgoJoe]

Best post on the subject I've read. People they have to fix themselves.

 

Understanding that women are different than men (but not really) helps. Most I've met seem to be intensely logical; either that, or it's the only way they're comfortable expressing themselves. At least...in the beginning.

 

IMO, for divorced men or otherwise, dating should be approached with friendship in mind first, and romance second. When the time comes...either quickly or not so much, when it's time to be romantic it is truly best to be sincere about it. Being respectful towards someone (anyone) is a great way to begin a 'stable' relationship. One red flag I've witnessed very often is; kindness misinterpreted for manipulation. If she's thinking 'what's he up to?" then you should be thinking where the door is.

 

 

When you're a young male and head over heels in love you don't even know what a red flag looks like unless your pops sat you down and gave you the ins and outs. Mine wasn't around so it was trouble.

 

I was affably distant and not 100% gung ho and got pursued more and more for years to stay in the relationship when I said to myself, ok she has proven herself this is the one for me. After a rough patch things just went POOF.

 

Granted other factors were involved BUT my point is that I was not prepared for the depths of emotional manipulation or the effect of the emotional singularity I could experience from a Woman.

 

I've seen many of the stories here on LS since I've been on here for nearly a year and there is a common denominator to both the Male and Female versions. The male mixed signals/intent is so much easier for me to spot but when it comes to the Women (young ones specifically) I see some of the most ridiculous things and it is honestly like watching a bad movie.

[carhill]

Are Women always prone to emotional instability no matter what age?

 

IME, no. Sometimes? Yes. Some women? Yes. IME, instability has generally run parallel to either mental illness/personality disorder and/or substance abuse.

 

The other side of the coin is the abject stoicism and disconnected style my exW exhibited made for a relatively peaceful and amicable divorce.

 

Life is a mixed bag.

[CC12]

I have a question for all of the Divorce/ing/d men in this forum and as I get ready to date again I have to ask.

 

Are Women always prone to emotional instability no matter what age?

 

This is kind of like asking, "Are men always prone to be idiots/morons/jerks/cheaters no matter what age?" This makes more of a (somewhat offensive) statement than a question. Were you really looking for an answer to that? The answer is no. Easy.

 

Women who read this: I am not trying to be sexist, stereotypical or generalize; I want to try and get a consensus from Older men with experience in marriage etc.

 

But you are generalizing and the very nature of your question is a bit sexist. Why are you specifically asking for men's opinions? Is it because you believe the opinions of men are worth more and have more merit than women's opinions of themselves? I know you're going to deny any prejudice, but think about your question and how you asked it and consider that maybe your attitude toward women could use some improvement.

 

To be clear, I'm not accusing you of being a sexist jerk or anything. I don't think you at all intended to say anything offensive. I think it was a pretty innocent question, but it did display some unfair suspicions, I thought.

[EgoJoe]

I do have a prejudice. The question was for men because I honestly wanted to relate to and get opinions I could relate to. I also thought it might be a healthy conversation and did not want to see it devolve into a battle of the sexes. One of my greatest gifts mentally is my ability, need, want and desire to build consensus in order to be as objective as possible.

 

Divorced men have seen the best and the worst over longer periods of time. So, I thought, "Hey! Let me ask them!"

 

My prejudice isn't misogynist, chauvenist or truly sexist it has been learned and it is simply due to the fact that, I, while impulsive and compulsive have a logical filter and I run my emotions through it.

 

For me, when faced with a head clouding moment in my best fits of self control I stuff it down until I calm down so that I can work it out reasonably. In my worst moments, I mulled it over for too long and my impulsive and compulsive side took over.

 

I think first and feel second. I was raised by a Single mother too and I have much respect for Women. The problem is that I have had that chipped away.

 

You said you knew I'd deny it but here I am, not denying it. Not only that but I am making an active effort to understand the differences. Just today I've begun to read more on the specific nature of emotions and logic as experienced by Males and Females.

 

I find myself at a lack for more technical or succinct words because the fact that I think first and feel second actually plagues me. I can think but the feelings will place a fog on the back end and I know that there is also my Ego in there so I have to be wary of my own defense mechanisms and cognative dissonance and I get to a head space where I need to start making things linear in order to process them and form a working model.

 

I want to live in an objective reality and to realize that I have to come to terms with my own cynicism.

 

I've seen countless examples of Women telling me in my personal life how they lied and it was justifiable. In my mind, a lie that witholds pertinent details is never justifiable. Do white lies exist? Yes! But, if they are so white then the only reason you tell them is to save face or difficulty which has it's own negative connotations and so if you're self-aware you'll have to come to terms with that.

 

I've seen Men lie and tell me to my face, I'm lying because I don't want to tell the truth, I don't care or I'll get hung out to dry. Now, I have seen the defense mechanism thinking of rationalization, justification and denial in them too but the degree is much smaller from MY observations.

 

I've had things that I felt ashamed of initially and made amends for thrown back in my face years later when I've confronted a Woman for a sleight not the other day at the time. No apology, no remorse just going for the gonads.

 

My problem and this is the fundamental issue is that I don't understand the sheer level of rationalization of seemingly completely idiotic notions. Not once have I generalized and said all Women do this all of the time. Just that I have experienced it at a macro level.

 

Are men all idiots/cheaters/jerks etc. well...a jerk and idiot are subjective terms but a cheater is a cheater. So, when I see that I see a bad example.

 

I think a better question would be, "Are all men oblivious to the connotation and context of a Woman's feelings and how they influence her reality and thoughts?" The answer to that is INITIALLY.

 

We're supposed to take hints and figure out language that has a double meaning? I mean...this is one of those nasty double standards. Another is that if she's mad she can say anything and it's 'cus she's mad but if I say something out of anger it's because I'm an idiot or a jerk?

 

So, if you're offended or if you're on a high horse. Step off of it. I want to be a righteous dude. Not a jaded, bitter, chauvenistic, sexist, misogynistic, idiot, jerk, cheater and walking Id who gives up on doing the right thing. For me, this involves knowledge and I wanted logic, experience and the wisdom of other men, not bias.

 

Because if I have to be wary of this kind of emotional instability (and to me it appears to be just that) then I will have to make many more adjustments to the way I handle conflict resolution with regard to Women.

 

Thank you for reading this.

[CC12]

One of my greatest gifts mentally is my ability, need, want and desire to build consensus in order to be as objective as possible.

 

I also pride myself on my ability to be logical and objective, as do many women.

 

My prejudice isn't misogynist, chauvenist or truly sexist it has been learned and it is simply due to the fact that, I, while impulsive and compulsive have a logical filter and I run my emotions through it.

 

It has been learned? Can you expand on this?

 

I was raised by a Single mother too

 

I hate to go there, but you brought up your mother, so I’d like to see what you think here. Would you ask your mother, “Are you women always prone to emotional instability?” Would you describe your mother as a woman who sees the “lens reality through their emotions and will act accordingly (sometimes seemingly crazily) without regard for others. At some point this can become ridiculous with denial, projection, deflection etc. No consistency to their behavior what so ever. Also, the belief that is perfectly OK to say one thing and mean another as if a guy is supposed to figure out when she is talking in code and when she is not."

 

and I have much respect for Women. The problem is that I have had that chipped away.

 

I’m sorry that something chipped away at your respect for women. I don’t know exactly what it was that made you feel this way, but I think it would be healthy to let that go.

 

I've seen countless examples of Women telling me in my personal life how they lied and it was justifiable.

 

You’ve never seen a man lie and justify the lie?

 

I've had things that I felt ashamed of initially and made amends for thrown back in my face years later when I've confronted a Woman for a sleight not the other day at the time. No apology, no remorse just going for the gonads.

 

I’m sorry you have had bad experiences with women. It happens. Don't let it sour you on all women.

 

Are men all idiots/cheaters/jerks etc. well...a jerk and idiot are subjective terms but a cheater is a cheater. So, when I see that I see a bad example.

 

You completely missed the point. Here, let me ask some offensive stereotypical questions:

 

Are all Asian people good at math?

Can all Africans run really fast?

Do all South Americans play soccer really well?

Are all Canadians polite?

 

Those are positive attributes, but it’s still offensive and stupid to apply them to all people of those groups. And I think that’s what you did when you referred to women using words like, “unstable,” “whimsical,” “ridiculous.” “inconsistent,” “unhinged,” “no logical filter.”

 

So, if you're offended or if you're on a high horse. Step off of it.

 

Who are you referring to? Me?

 

I want to be a righteous dude. Not a jaded, bitter, chauvenistic, sexist, misogynistic, idiot, jerk, cheater and walking Id who gives up on doing the right thing. For me, this involves knowledge and I wanted logic, experience and the wisdom of other men, not bias.

 

Alright, men, step right up and give your wisdom to this man. Women, take your unstable, biased views elsewhere.