Untouchable_Fire Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I met my cousin's new GF over the weekend and she is crazy about politics. She works for a non-profit and volunteers time to all kinds of different movements. She started a huge fight with me. I'm not one to back down, but I tried really hard to diffuse things before she totally blew her top. She seems unable to listen or be reasonable. I would classify her as a strong feminist/socialist. I'm extremely surprised because my cousin is very similar to me. We both make good money, identify as independents, and lean towards being libertarian. He said absolutely nothing during her tirade... just kind of nodded his head as if he agrees. I spoke to him afterwards to apologize, and he tells me that he just nods his head and agrees when she gets worked up about stuff. It's a new relationship and that can't last forever. So... moving forward... how am I supposed to work with Super Bitch? Just nod my head like my cousin? I can't avoid her as I spend lots of my time with my cousin.
TheBigQuestion Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 If you weren't close with your cousin, I would say that her presence in his life would provide you with numerous golden opportunities to make subtle digs at her comical self-righteous indignation. Other than shutting up and taking it, or somehow convincing your cousin that this girl is an unpleasant person, I'm not sure what else you could do.
soserious1 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Just tell her pleasantly but directly & firmly that you aren't into arguing politics at every turn. Every time she tries to start such a discussion remind her of this & change the subject.
InJest Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I too agree that you should just have fun with her. Say things like, "95% of rapes are false accusations" and "George W. Bush, ran the country way better than Obama", and watch her go nuts. Just make absurd comments that will piss her off..it's really easy with people like that. And funny.
zengirl Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 How did she "start" the fight? I have to deal with crazy political people all the time (usually they're closer to your views than hers, as my views are probably closer to hers) in social life, as I live in an area where I'm in the political minority (the Southeast). It's not really that hard. You just kind of decide not to fight if you don't want to fight. It's not about backing down; it's about asserting that there's no point in having the discussion. That is, if you're not interested in fighting. If you are, by all means go ahead and fight.
TheBigQuestion Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I too agree that you should just have fun with her. Say things like, "95% of rapes are false accusations" and "George W. Bush, ran the country way better than Obama", and watch her go nuts. Just make absurd comments that will piss her off..it's really easy with people like that. And funny. Try saying "the glass ceiling is a myth" (which it is). That always drives outspoken feminists into rage mode.
aj22one Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 My first girlfriend was a strong liberal feminist and I am a libertarian (at the time a minarchist). We agreed to disagree on politics, but whenever she went on a political tirade I'd just say some off the wall thing a libertarian would say like "Grover Cleveland was a great president" or "legalize hemp" or some ridiculous thing. That usually ended the conversation. You could just say you're voting for Gary Johnson this year. That should be a conversation ender (he's pro-pot, pro-choice).
InJest Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Tell her that women's sports shouldn't even be televised. Also, next time she gets uppity, tell her she's the reason women shouldn't be allowed to vote.
reptilelover88 Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Tell her that women's sports shouldn't even be televised. Also, next time she gets uppity, tell her she's the reason women shouldn't be allowed to vote. Hilarious. PLEASE try this and report back. Unfortunately I have to deal with these sorts of people all the time, and believe me when I say that here in the UK they're MUCH more left-wing than you tend to find in the US (having had experience of both political scenes). I honestly find their borderline communist opinions so ridiculous that all I can do is laugh. And yes, they're very easy and funny to wind up...
Author Untouchable_Fire Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 How did she "start" the fight? I have to deal with crazy political people all the time (usually they're closer to your views than hers, as my views are probably closer to hers) in social life, as I live in an area where I'm in the political minority (the Southeast). It's not really that hard. You just kind of decide not to fight if you don't want to fight. It's not about backing down; it's about asserting that there's no point in having the discussion. That is, if you're not interested in fighting. If you are, by all means go ahead and fight. I'm definitely in the political minority here on the west coast. I think no matter where you live the group in the majority usually act as bullies. We left CNN on and they were talking about this birth control controversy... and she just started in on it. I corrected a few things she said and it spiraled into an argument... at least on her end. As if I'm not allowed to have an opinion on birth control because I'm a man. I'm affected just as much. Regardless, I'm not sure how to deal with her yet. I will just take a wait and see approach. I'm cool with opinionated people who disagree with me. One of my good friends is super duper liberal... she is always out saving the world. Right now she is helping battered women in Africa. I respect her a ton because unlike those around her what she believes isn't all about herself. Somethings not computing. This is your cousin and you are both adults? This is your issue because...?. You spend lots of time with your cousin because you live together? Work together? If I had a cousin who complained about my girlfriend I'd tell him to go **** himself (in as nice way) and to get a life. Our family is really tight. My cousin lived with my fiance and I for 8 months while he was working a low paying tech startup company. It has since taken off and he has moved on... though he still owns 14% of the company... which is worth just over $420,000. He was working 100+ hour weeks.
phineas Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 How I deal with people who insist on arguing politics: Tell them our country needs needs a 2nd party then ask exactly what any politician has accomplished in the last yr. Then I go get another a drink because they 99.9% don't want to talk to me anymore. LOL! By saying we need a 2nd party you are showing you think both parties are equally useless & not picking a side so that diffuses the partisan argument from them. Asking them to prove the worth of their party instead of criticizing the other party will probably make smoke come out their ears. LOL!
oaks Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 So... moving forward... how am I supposed to work with Super Bitch? Just nod my head like my cousin? I can't avoid her as I spend lots of my time with my cousin. Can you accept that not everybody shares your views and values without it making them bad people? Assuming you can then just don't talk to her about politics. Find some other topics of conversation.
Emilia Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Just tell her pleasantly but directly & firmly that you aren't into arguing politics at every turn. Every time she tries to start such a discussion remind her of this & change the subject. If you are serious about wanting to avoid this kind of confrontation then take soserious's advice (no pun intended)
Arikel Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 How I deal with people who insist on arguing politics: Tell them our country needs needs a 2nd party then ask exactly what any politician has accomplished in the last yr. Then I go get another a drink because they 99.9% don't want to talk to me anymore. LOL! By saying we need a 2nd party you are showing you think both parties are equally useless & not picking a side so that diffuses the partisan argument from them. Asking them to prove the worth of their party instead of criticizing the other party will probably make smoke come out their ears. LOL! I do this too! It really pisses them off, its hilarious Sad thing is, I'm actually serious about the question too
xxoo Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 We left CNN on and they were talking about this birth control controversy... and she just started in on it. I corrected a few things she said and it spiraled into an argument... at least on her end. As if I'm not allowed to have an opinion on birth control because I'm a man. I'm affected just as much. Regardless, I'm not sure how to deal with her yet. I will just take a wait and see approach. Don't correct her. Who cares what she thinks and says? You don't have to get into it with her. You've discovered that you and she don't debate well. So just....don't. 3
Ninjainpajamas Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Well she seems like one of those people that If they want to believe the sky is red they're going to believe no matter what you tell them. She's very opinionated, stubborn and strong-minded...like a donkey. With these people I don't waste my time or breathe, It's a debate that would never end. I don't need their approval or agreement to feel justified or confident in what I believe in, plus she think she's going to change the world by running her mouth all of the time. I would just hear her out, out of respect and then just nod my head and confirm that I understand where she is coming from. I don't need to fall into that trap of saying...weelll, what about this or that? or oh I don't necessarily agree with that! let me tell you why! That's exactly what she is fishing for. I would just downplay it, not really react and/or change the subject and avoid the person. Try to control the pace of conversation or find a common ground that's not political, I mean eventually once you're cousin stops being pussy whipped he'll probably see the light with this girl eventually since I'm sure you won't be the only one mentioning to him about how she is acting...so just make her let herself stand out and look like a fool. There's no reason to bring yourself down to her level, just start singing a song while she's talking to you or entertain yourself with an inanimate object while she is talking to you and appear fascinated with it! Well that's what I'd do but that's because I'm an ******* and I'll get under your skin IF you're trying to get under mine.
zengirl Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 We left CNN on and they were talking about this birth control controversy... and she just started in on it. I corrected a few things she said and it spiraled into an argument... at least on her end. As if I'm not allowed to have an opinion on birth control because I'm a man. I'm affected just as much. Regardless, I'm not sure how to deal with her yet. I will just take a wait and see approach. XXOO gave a great way to deal with her if you don't want to fight. UF, based on your interactions here, I'd say you're extremely opinionated and not likely to try to avoid a fight. Hey, neither am I in many cases, though I've learned to if it's worth it to me. I imagine you have too, if it's worth it to you. But for some reason it wasn't worth it to you with her---you're only prompting further fights by thinking of her as a crazy bitch you have to deal with and such. If you value your relationship with your cousin, I would think you'd do what you could -- even if it meant holding your tongue -- to avoid a fight. XXOO's great advice: Don't correct her. Who cares what she thinks and says? You don't have to get into it with her. You've discovered that you and she don't debate well. So just....don't. And, well, as an aside, I would take issue with someone saying men are affected "just as much" by BC legislation, as it's just not true. (Which is not to say I'd think men weren't allowed to have an opinion, but there's no way you're affected just as much as the person who has a female reproductive system and could get pregnant. Fathers are not affected "just as much" by unwanted pregnancies as women---that's just untrue; affected? Often, yes. But not to the same degree. Men will never have to bear the burden of childbirth. That's just a fact. Personally, I've learned through life to accept, with some humility, that there are some times when my opinion counts less, just by virtue of not having the same experiences. I can know all the facts in the world, but if someone else is more directly affected or has more direct experience with an issue, on a personal level, I think approaching that with some degree of acknowledgement helps. For me, it was working with causes dedicated to poverty and education in poor areas (I have never been, nor will I ever be poor) that taught me that. My opinion there counts in some ways, but not the same way someone who's had to experience or truly fear that counts. 1
Queen Zenobia Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 And, well, as an aside, I would take issue with someone saying men are affected "just as much" by BC legislation, as it's just not true. (Which is not to say I'd think men weren't allowed to have an opinion, but there's no way you're affected just as much as the person who has a female reproductive system and could get pregnant. Fathers are not affected "just as much" by unwanted pregnancies as women---that's just untrue; affected? Often, yes. But not to the same degree. Men will never have to bear the burden of childbirth. That's just a fact. They may not have to deal with childbirth, but they do bear (at least in this country) much of the financial burden of child rearing, often with very few custodial or visitation rights. Whether that is equal to the burden of carrying and giving birth to a child is pretty much open to debate, as neither men nor women can say they've experienced both sides of the coin. Personally OP, I like debating so unless she was an overly defensive person who took healthy (even heated) debate as a personal insult, I'd continue to talk and discuss. I love debunking socialism.
freestyle Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 What's more important to you, OP? "Winning" a debate with your cousin's gf? Or maintaining a good relationship with your cousin? You don't *have to* engage in a political debate.Have you considered redirecting the conversation? Asking her about herself? It's your choice to continue playing tug-of-war. What would happen if you set down the rope? There's nothing wrong with acknowledging that you're at an impasse with someone. It doesn't mean that she 'wins'. She's entitled to her perceptions and point of view, just as much as you are.Recognizing the impasse, and refusing to engage in endless circular arguments will only make you appear to be the wiser one. You can't control her behavior, only your own. Again---is this worth damaging the relationship with your cousin?
serial muse Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) I agree with those who say that unless you enjoy the debate (and that can depend a lot on the other person's style of debating; it's annoying when people fly off into the rafters, for example) then it's probably best to just agree to disagree. I like the way soserious put it: Just tell her pleasantly but directly & firmly that you aren't into arguing politics at every turn. Every time she tries to start such a discussion remind her of this & change the subject. I wonder if what you're really worried about is your cousin putting up with this...but there again, that's his choice, and you can't change it for him. He needs to make up his own mind about whether he's OK with her politics and style of debating. If he is, then he is. Brief tangent: They may not have to deal with childbirth, but they do bear (at least in this country) much of the financial burden of child rearing, often with very few custodial or visitation rights. Whether that is equal to the burden of carrying and giving birth to a child is pretty much open to debate, as neither men nor women can say they've experienced both sides of the coin. I understand that men want a say in the childbearing issue, but what you said here (bolded emphasis mine) is simply not true. Quite often women are on both sides of that particular coin, at the same time (meaning, bearing both the child(ren) and the financial responsibility for the child(ren)). My mom sure was. So I'm not sure how making that kind of highly debatable statement advances the issue in any meaningful way. There are other, more accurate tacks to take. /OT Edited February 22, 2012 by serial muse
Queen Zenobia Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 I understand that men want a say in the childbearing issue, but what you said here (bolded emphasis mine) is simply not true. Quite often women are on both sides of that particular coin, at the same time (meaning, bearing both the child(ren) and the financial responsibility for the child(ren)). My mom sure was. So I'm not sure how making that kind of highly debatable statement advances the issue in any meaningful way. There are other, more accurate tacks to take. /OT The point I was making is that most men don't like unexpected pregnancy any more than women do. And, that there are financial consequences for most men who get their girlfriend pregnant. Men and women both have a stake in issues regarding birth control. Perhaps it's just the crowd I hang with but I've never met a man who wanted his girlfriend barefoot and pregnant. Of course the recent flap over the issue has nothing to do with birth control though so that's another issue entirely.
Ursa Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Don't correct her. Who cares what she thinks and says? You don't have to get into it with her. You've discovered that you and she don't debate well. So just....don't. Agreed. In reality, all of us sometimes have to swallow our strong opinions and avoid conversations that are likely to devolve, focus on other things. It's simply part of adult life. From what you have told this board about your ex, if your cousin lived with you while you were with her I imagine he's done his share of sucking it up and zipping his lip about your taste in women, too. Now it's your turn. They may not have to deal with childbirth, but they do bear (at least in this country) much of the financial burden of child rearing, often with very few custodial or visitation rights. Whether that is equal to the burden of carrying and giving birth to a child is pretty much open to debate, as neither men nor women can say they've experienced both sides of the coin. I understand that men want a say in the childbearing issue, but what you said here (bolded emphasis mine) is simply not true. Quite often women are on both sides of that particular coin, at the same time (meaning, bearing both the child(ren) and the financial responsibility for the child(ren)). My mom sure was. So I'm not sure how making that kind of highly debatable statement advances the issue in any meaningful way. There are other, more accurate tacks to take. /OT While I'm here, I'll throw in my agreement with serial muse on this side debate. Birth control, or lack of it, can affect men financially and emotionally, and I don't have a problem with men having opinions on the matter. Everybody benefits from a healthy exchange of opinions. However, birth control, or lack of it, can affect women financially, emotionally, and physically, and statistically women are more likely to end up bearing far more of the brunt of childcare. To flatly state that birth control issues affect men "just as much" as women is simply incorrect, and there are certainly women are going to bridle at the suggestion. In addition, this completely ignores another facet of hormonal birth control, i.e. the millions of women who use/have used/will use it purely for health reasons, to regulate hormones and control issues with dysmenorrhea, irregular periods, severe clinical PMS, acne, endometriosis, Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, etc. I myself have used hormonal birth control off and on for purely medical reasons, as have about a quarter of the women I've known.
Queen Zenobia Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 While I'm here, I'll throw in my agreement with serial muse on this side debate. Birth control, or lack of it, can affect men financially and emotionally, and I don't have a problem with men having opinions on the matter. Everybody benefits from a healthy exchange of opinions. However, birth control, or lack of it, can affect women financially, emotionally, and physically, and statistically women are more likely to end up bearing far more of the brunt of childcare. To flatly state that birth control issues affect men "just as much" as women is simply incorrect, and there are certainly women are going to bridle at the suggestion. In addition, this completely ignores another facet of hormonal birth control, i.e. the millions of women who use/have used/will use it purely for health reasons, to regulate hormones and control issues with dysmenorrhea, irregular periods, severe clinical PMS, acne, endometriosis, Polycystic Ovary Syndrome, etc. I myself have used hormonal birth control off and on for purely medical reasons, as have about a quarter of the women I've known. I'm a woman who uses birth control. I'm not against birth control, quite the opposite in fact. My point was that men (generally) are just as supportive of birth control as women are. And getting a girl pregnant is not exactly on most men's priority list. It doesn't matter anyway because the latest issue over birth control (that probably fueled the OP's argument) really had nothing to do with birth control other than topically.
Nightsky Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 If he likes her you should just stay out of it. Also avoid correcting her like others have said if you don’t enjoy pushing her buttons. Personally I’d find it funny to push her button. Bottom line you can’t choose who your cousin dates and you shouldn’t try. You have every right not to like her yourself though.
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