denise_xo Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Good for you, I'll never stand in front of a man ever again to ask permission to spend my own earnings, I found it demeaning as hell. Well, I've never asked a man for permission to spend my earnings, so I don't know what that feels like.
Ariadne Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Of course you part of the Ummah, and I find your devotion to Allah very admirable. Also, I thank you for your blessings sister. Peace be with you. I can see in your heart that you are still a Muslim. I just sent a Dua for you, may Allah respond and bring you back to his Ummah, Ameen.
soserious1 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 If you want to keep your money as yours that is fine. However, I hope you do not expect a guy like me to pay for more than my share. I also hope that you don't mind me doing what I want with my money. You buy your shoes and I will buy my fancy cars. If that means I don't want to save for the house you want then tough...it is my money and I can do what I want. As Woggle alluded, my big problem is that women want their money to be independent, but want me to pay for vacations, all the groceries, dinners (more than half), and other things I don't want to spend my (not our) money on. Oh babe, you want to try that fancy place for dinner? Not my thing, but you are welcome to treat me! I don't need nor want a man to pay for a single thing for me, not so much as a cup of coffee, I pay my own way always. As far as a house I own one, no worries there. So, a man can keep 100% of every dollar he earns,I expect NOTHING from men when it comes to money aside from requesting that he keep nose & his hands off my checkbook & out of my wallet.
soserious1 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Well, I've never asked a man for permission to spend my earnings, so I don't know what that feels like. Having a "discussion" about whether or not it is okay for you to spend money you earned on yourself is asking for "permission"
denise_xo Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Having a "discussion" about whether or not it is okay for you to spend money you earned on yourself is asking for "permission" Perhaps it is for you, but I certainly don't see it that way, as I've explained in my previous posts.
soserious1 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 It's not that men don't like women who can take care of themselves but some male bashers have hijacked the whole concept to make men out to be useless and disposable. An ideal woman is one who very much can hold her own but also values the relationship very much. Everyone is "disposable" and easily replaced Woggle, not just men.
soserious1 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Perhaps it is for you, but I certainly don't see it that way, as I've explained in my previous posts. Well that's great news for you, glad it's working out & hope you don't get screwed down the road. I got cleaned out when my marriage ended, I learn from mistakes, I'll never have discussions about how I spend my money or co-mingle finances with a guy ever again.
Author binny Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 I've never had to depend on a man to move furniture for me for free ( a friend or whatnot). I simply have the money to hire someone and give them a few quick bucks; handy man or whatever. That's what $ is for. I won't pay for removal men to help me rearrage furniture in my apartment! I could take days just moving things back and forth until I find the perfect place! lol I'll ask friends or someone for help, never said it had to be a man! It sounds like you can't rely on anyone for anything.. Imo, you can ask for help and still be independent.
soserious1 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 It sounds like you can't rely on anyone for anything.. Imo, you can ask for help and still be independent. That's where you are wrong, I CAN rely on someone in all of life's circumstances.. and that person is me,myself & I 1
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Many women operate under the delusion that men are commitmentphobes. Why would they think that? It seems stupid. Just because a woman doesn't want to have sex with me doesn't mean she is afraid of sex. In the same vein of thought... just because a guy won't commit to you doesn't mean he is afraid of commitment.
Author binny Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 That's where you are wrong, I CAN rely on someone in all of life's circumstances.. and that person is me,myself & I Perhaps I'm not as independent as I thought. I can rely on my close friends for help if I need it. That doesn't mean that I need help often or at all, it just means that I know they will be there for me if I need it just like I would be there for them if they needed something.
Sanman Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I would never want to move in with a guy and would never date someone who lives far apart. However, I STILL do not believe that you need to ask for permission to spend your own money if dating and not living together. Do YOU "consult" with your gf when you spend over $500 on yourself? Absolutely, I consult with her when I spend less and she does the same. She asked me for my opinion on a new laptop and I helped her find a good deal on one. I consulted with her when I purchased my smartphone and she suggested I get the new iphone so we could face time and stay with the same provider as I call her more than anyone and our calls would cost airtime minutes if I were to move to a different service. We trust each other and value the knowledge the other brings to the relationship. She saved some money because of me and I because of her. I do not NEED to consult her and she does not NEED to consult me, but we value each other's opinion. We are a team. Denise understands this concept. Breals and Soserious, Your points are valid for your life choices. However, neither of you is truly interested in a relationship, so I feel that it really does not relate back to the OP asking about whether men are willing to date independent women.
soserious1 Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Absolutely, I consult with her when I spend less and she does the same. She asked me for my opinion on a new laptop and I helped her find a good deal on one. I consulted with her when I purchased my smartphone and she suggested I get the new iphone so we could face time and stay with the same provider as I call her more than anyone and our calls would cost airtime minutes if I were to move to a different service. We trust each other and value the knowledge the other brings to the relationship. She saved some money because of me and I because of her. I do not NEED to consult her and she does not NEED to consult me, but we value each other's opinion. We are a team. Denise understands this concept. Breals and Soserious, Your points are valid for your life choices. However, neither of you is truly interested in a relationship, so I feel that it really does not relate back to the OP asking about whether men are willing to date independent women. Sanman, even if I was to get into a relationship, finances would be kept strictly separate. I would NOT expect the man to contribute one thin dime towards & of my expenses nor would I require him to have discussions with me about how he chooses to handle his money. From what I've seen, there are a lot of men out here who feel the same way I do around this issue. Edited February 22, 2012 by soserious1
Author binny Posted February 22, 2012 Author Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) Sanman, even if I was to get into a relationship, finances would be kept strictly separate. I would NOT expect the man to contribute one thin dime towards & of my expenses nor would I require him to have discussions with me about how he chooses to handle his money. I actually agree with you on this. That is unless I was married in which case there may need to be some compromise. Although I've never had a LTR so who knows how I would really act! I do agree with Sanman though that it is OK to ask for opinions and perhaps they can help you find a better deal. But I wouldn't have a joint bank account or anything. Edited February 22, 2012 by binny
denise_xo Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Well that's great news for you, glad it's working out & hope you don't get screwed down the road. I got cleaned out when my marriage ended, I learn from mistakes, I'll never have discussions about how I spend my money or co-mingle finances with a guy ever again. I am sorry about what happened to you. In our marriage, finances really isn't an issue of concern for us at all. It's an area where we experience a high degree of compatibility, and we have never felt compromised by each other in terms of how to spend money. Absolutely, I consult with her when I spend less and she does the same. She asked me for my opinion on a new laptop and I helped her find a good deal on one. I consulted with her when I purchased my smartphone and she suggested I get the new iphone so we could face time and stay with the same provider as I call her more than anyone and our calls would cost airtime minutes if I were to move to a different service. We trust each other and value the knowledge the other brings to the relationship. She saved some money because of me and I because of her. I do not NEED to consult her and she does not NEED to consult me, but we value each other's opinion. We are a team. Denise understands this concept. Breals and Soserious, Your points are valid for your life choices. However, neither of you is truly interested in a relationship, so I feel that it really does not relate back to the OP asking about whether men are willing to date independent women. Yes, this is exactly how I experience it. There is a huge difference between saying "Will you please allow me to buy X", and saying, "I'm thinking of getting X, and I'd like to have your opinion on this". I don't need to or have to consult with my partner. I do it because it enriches our relationship, and it often helps us make better purchases.
Emilia Posted February 22, 2012 Posted February 22, 2012 Sanman, even if I was to get into a relationship, finances would be kept strictly separate. I would NOT expect the man to contribute one thin dime towards & of my expenses nor would I require him to have discussions with me about how he chooses to handle his money. From what I've seen, there are a lot of men out here who feel the same way I do around this issue. If I moved in with someone tomorrow, I would open a shared bankaccount that we both contributed an equal amount to cover our monthly expenses (mortgage or rent, utility bills, food, council tax). That would be enough mingling of money I think and not expensive for either party.
Negative Nancy Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) a woman nowadays has no choice but to be independent, be it emotionally or financially because men just can't be trusted anymore (maybe they never were trustworthy and just hid it better back in the "good ol' days"). i've heard of cases where women played the dutiful wives for 20 or 30 years, did all the household chores, raised the kids, put their education aside for the sake of the husband so he would have a nice cozy home while working on his "career" - and then were given the boot because they were too old and wrinkly and the husbands wanted to start a new family with the secretary. those women ended up being poor and relying on social welfare because with no education (that they neglected because the husband didn't want them to be "independent") they had zero chances finding a job that paid for the living expenses. the new divorce law favors men now, so men have an even easier time leaving their "old wives" for some new toy. yes, in this brave new world a non-"independent" woman either needs a really good prenup or she's gonna be screwed over if the man decides that her face isn't young enough anymore. i'm sure alot of women would like to be a SAHM when there are kids (I'm one of them, even though I am "independent" now) but in today's society that would be just like russian roulette. men complain about women being "too independent" but what they fail to realize is that they helped creating this "monster". Edited February 23, 2012 by Negative Nancy
kaylan Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 a woman nowadays has no choice but to be independent, be it emotionally or financially because men just can't be trusted anymore (maybe they never were trustworthy and just hid it better back in the "good ol' days"). Yes, women have to be emotionally and financially independent just because men suck and are dishonest. Of course independence has nothing to do with increased womens rights, or the fact that some women actually want to be independent, or that some men value a woman who is independent. Of course those reasons are incorrect...its all because men suck:rolleyes: /sarcasm i've heard of cases where women played the dutiful wives for 20 or 30 years, did all the household chores, raised the kids, put their education aside for the sake of the husband so he would have a nice cozy home while working on his "career" - and then were given the boot because they were too old and wrinkly and the husbands wanted to start a new family with the secretary. And some women dont do the same thing? Hubby breaks his back supporting his family for 20 years, just so his wife can start an affair with a hot young play thing. Ever see the movie Unfaithful?...stuff like that happens to men AND women in real life. those women ended up being poor and relying on social welfare because with no education (that they neglected because the husband didn't want them to be "independent") they had zero chances finding a job that paid for the living expenses. the new divorce law favors men now, so men have an even easier time leaving their "old wives" for some new toy. As Justin Timberlake would say "Cry Me A River" yes, in this brave new world a non-"independent" woman either needs a really good prenup or she's gonna be screwed over if the man decides that her face isn't young enough anymore. i'm sure alot of women would like to be a SAHM when there are kids (I'm one of them, even though I am "independent" now) but in today's society that would be just like russian roulette. Actually, most men nowadays arent wanting the SAHM type of woman. So she doesnt have to play Russian Roulette...just get a job. And lets stop pretending some women never go for fresh faces and bail on their responsibilities as a wife. All one has to do is read the forums here to see things swing both ways. men complain about women being "too independent" but what they fail to realize is that they helped creating this "monster". I dont complain about women being too independent. I welcome independence. Men and women just want a partner who focuses on maintaining a healthy relationship.
Negative Nancy Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Actually, most men nowadays arent wanting the SAHM type of woman. So she doesnt have to play Russian Roulette...just get a job. so who's taking care of the baby if both parents are working? why even have kids if you let them raise by a stranger , it makes absolutely no sense and i've never understood this "concept".
kaylan Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 so who's taking care of the baby if both parents are working? why even have kids if you let them raise by a stranger , it makes absolutely no sense and i've never understood this "concept". My grandma raised me during the day and my mom was home in the evenings. I turned out great. Just because Im at work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, doesnt mean Im not raising my kids. Doesnt mean Ill have a stranger raise them either. Stay at home parents are the minority nowadays. Times are a changing. Deal with it.
Negative Nancy Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 (edited) My grandma raised me during the day and my mom was home in the evenings. I turned out great. Just because Im at work 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, doesnt mean Im not raising my kids. Doesnt mean Ill have a stranger raise them either. Stay at home parents are the minority nowadays. Times are a changing. Deal with it. yeah my mother would be really happy if i dumped my child off at her place - NOT. she wouldnt have time anyway cos she is still working FT as well. and we live far apart. 2 symptoms of modern times that stand in the way of grandma taking care of the kids: parents and children having to work plus increased mobility which has many parents and children live far apart - so your model of the older generation minding the younger one isn't working anymore. so it seems like YOU are the one who needs to catch on up with the times and "deal with it". Edited February 23, 2012 by Negative Nancy
kaylan Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 yeah my mother would be really happy if i dumped my child off at her place - NOT. she wouldnt have time anyway cos she is still working FT as well. and we live far apart. 2 symptoms of modern times that stand in the way of grandma taking care of the kids: parents and children having to work plus increased mobility which has many parents and children live far apart - so your model of the older generation minding the younger one isn't working anymore. so it seems like YOU are the one who needs to catch on up with the times and "deal with it". My grandmother lived with us, so I was not dumped off anywhere. But the only reason my mom may possibly help raise my kids is because I plan to take care of my mom. This way she can retire and not have to be up and down the highway trying to work to take care of herself anymore. It the least I can do for a strong woman who raised me and my brother to be smart me. Id like for things to end up that way, but I know life doesnt work out as ya plan it. Either way, Im am deal with the times. I have no issue me or my wife arent home with the kids for 8 hours of the day. Doesnt mean we arent raising them. And I have no issue if my mom doesnt end up helping me raise my kids. So trust me, Ive caught up with the times. Which is exactly why I dont aim to find a SAHM. I know households nowadays need two working parents in order to maintain things comfortably. SAHMs arent really "the times", so what am I supposed to be catching up to?
Woggle Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 I think people in general these are pretty crappy but it is not one sided when it comes to gender. There are men who break their backs to be good and faithful husbands only to have their wives walk out when MLC crisis hits. The walkaway wife epidemic is very real. There are also women who know they have a good guy and fully trust him but still like going out and earning their own living. It's not because men are crappy and not to be trusted.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 Personally I despise kids and don't want them. I would rather DIE than be a stay at home mom. I'm not independent because I have to (well, I actually do have to) but I also WANT to; I love it and relish it. I LOVE being independent. I don't take one penny from my family either. I think it's pathetic when people over the age of 18 still receive help from their family. I like the fact that I am tough and strong enough to handle everything on my own. Heck, I am more independent than most guys I have met. I have met older guys who still live at home or get help from mommy and daddy. Ugh. I don't respect women who get help from mommy and daddy either. I think I am better than all of them because I am stronger and tougher than all of them. We get it. You are strong and tough and independent and better then everyone else who isn't out of the house by 18.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 24, 2012 Posted February 24, 2012 a woman nowadays has no choice but to be independent, be it emotionally or financially because men just can't be trusted anymore (maybe they never were trustworthy and just hid it better back in the "good ol' days"). I take exception to that. I'm very independent, and I raised my daughter to be independent. And, this has NOTHING WHATSOEVER TO DO WITH MEN SUPPOSEDLY BEING UNTRUSTWORTHY. People should be very capable of taking care of themselves. If they get into a familial situation where someone does the money earning and someone else does the child raising, or whatever - this does NOT mean that one of them is necessarily lacking in independence. i've heard of cases where women played the dutiful wives for 20 or 30 years, did all the household chores, raised the kids, put their education aside for the sake of the husband so he would have a nice cozy home while working on his "career" - and then were given the boot because they were too old and wrinkly and the husbands wanted to start a new family with the secretary. Yes, stuff like that happens. The people who do it are aholes. This does NOT mean that men are bad. Plenty of women do trashy stuff too. Does this mean to you that "women can't be trusted"? NN, how is your relationship? I can't imagine that it is very happy or fulfilling … for either you or your boyfriend, with your anti-man attitudes. 1
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