Faith in Marriage

[zengirl]

I'm talking about them having all the things you want/need.I know that's not possible, but if you agree to one partner, you know they're not going to give you everything you desire (I guess), so that guarantees that you will go without something you want in a partner.

 

Before I met hubby, I had decided to stop looking for a particular partner and instead decided to start looking for a particular partnership.

 

I don't know if you can ever meet the "perfect" person if you have a list of requirements for a partner or not -- maybe you can, maybe you can't, maybe your requirements will wind up being all wrong and you'll be miserable even if you do -- but I think it's just the wrong way to go, because, as you say, people CHANGE. They evolve. They age. Things happen. And it really is hard for someone to live up to any imagined person---that perfect partner you envisioned, even if they have all the right traits. So stop envisioning!

 

I think that deciding the kind of partnership I wanted helped me a lot, and our relationship is something hubby and I can prioritize and grow together. It is something we can agree on and contribute to. I do not expect him to give me everything I "need" or "want" in life; I can make myself happy, as others have said, and I think that's important. However, I expect him to prioritize the relationship, and I will do the same, and I wouldn't have married him if I didn't believe our relationship was what I wanted: one with laughter and shared interests and passion and sex and love and trust and commitment and similar goals and so forth. That doesn't mean I could've ever put hubby down on paper if I was trying to plan out a mate, but I put our relationship traits down on paper before I ever met him.

 

Here's kind of my take on it... - Then you need to think of the marriage as an institution, rather than just an expression of love. I think for a lot of couples, there will be shorter or longer period of time where you feel that you 'fall out of love', that marriage is routine etc. So you need to want to be part of marriage as a form of organising your life which feels superior to alternatives (e.g. being single), and not just because you're 'in love' with someone

 

That's an interesting idea. I do think love is crucial to a marriage, but I agree that we cannot forget it's a way of organizing our lives that is not solely about love. Love = marriage does not work; that much, I will say. Love is only one ingredient in a good, lasting marriage, and not necessarily the most crucial one.

 

Integral in this, I think, is the reality that we can't have it all. It is impossible to do everything at a high performance level.

 

Take a couple with two challenging, demanding, high paying jobs....add hobbies that consume half a day a week....add kids and their highly scheduled lives.....add the standard upper-middle set of "stuff" to maintain (big homes, vehicles)....something has got to give. Often, after the initial honeymoon stage, that "something" is the primary romantic relationship. Each person is going a million miles an hour, running parallel lives, and this is considered normal, and even expected, in suburban society today.

 

A very good point as well!

 

A relationship needs sustaining; it cannot sustain you. It is something you build, maintain, and give to, and yes, it gives you things in return if it's a good relationship, but you cannot neglect it and reap the benefits. That's a pipe dream.

[TigerCub]

Before I met hubby, I had decided to stop looking for a particular partner and instead decided to start looking for a particular partnership.

 

I don't know if you can ever meet the "perfect" person if you have a list of requirements for a partner or not -- maybe you can, maybe you can't, maybe your requirements will wind up being all wrong and you'll be miserable even if you do -- but I think it's just the wrong way to go, because, as you say, people CHANGE. They evolve. They age. Things happen. And it really is hard for someone to live up to any imagined person---that perfect partner you envisioned, even if they have all the right traits. So stop envisioning!

 

I think that deciding the kind of partnership I wanted helped me a lot, and our relationship is something hubby and I can prioritize and grow together. It is something we can agree on and contribute to. I do not expect him to give me everything I "need" or "want" in life; I can make myself happy, as others have said, and I think that's important. However, I expect him to prioritize the relationship, and I will do the same, and I wouldn't have married him if I didn't believe our relationship was what I wanted: one with laughter and shared interests and passion and sex and love and trust and commitment and similar goals and so forth. That doesn't mean I could've ever put hubby down on paper if I was trying to plan out a mate, but I put our relationship traits down on paper before I ever met him.

 

My bf isn't perfect and I'm far from it. We do have a lot of traits that compliment the other's. I like that.

I like that where I'm lacking in something, he has an abundance of it - for example patience

 

I like what you wrote (stuff in bold especially).

 

I think that deep down I just have a really pessimistic view. Its not so much that I fear that one day I'll want more, its more that I fear the unknown. I think its all the stuff about divorce and affairs, etc, that makes me think "well if so many people fall into that, why wouldn't we someday?"

 

But I do understand that people need to work on their relationships, whether they are married or not, so it is important that both parties make that a priority.

 

Thanks

[PenelopeTheFaithful]

I have no faith in marriage.

 

Then don't get one of those. If it doesn't suit your relationship, don't force it.

 

Rather do something that works for yourselves. If you need a priest or a magistrate to solemnise it for legal reasons, then cross your fingers, grit your teeth and sign what they need you to sign, but in your heart of hearts, you and your SO can swear to each other to uphold promises or commitments that mean something to you, instead of what some government or religion thinks you should be promising. If you love each other and want to be together, then promise what matters. To you.

[denise_xo]

I think that deep down I just have a really pessimistic view. Its not so much that I fear that one day I'll want more, its more that I fear the unknown. I think its all the stuff about divorce and affairs, etc, that makes me think "well if so many people fall into that, why wouldn't we someday?"

 

Have you and your bf discussed that? I think your concerns are pretty realistic given divorce stats etc, so it might be good to address it from now. It could (statistically speaking) very well happen to you, so why not just bring it up? I do think marriage is challenging, and I don't think we're particularly suited as human beings to part of what it entails (for example, I don't think monogamy is a particularly 'natural condition', but then again there are a lot of aspects about the way we live our lives today that aren't very 'natural').

[oldguy]

Integral in this, I think, is the reality that we can't have it all. It is impossible to do everything at a high performance level.

 

You are so right. that is why we prioritize & specialize on the things that are important to us. And when those priorities involve other people it's a commitment.

 

A sudden change I spoke of in my last post was our youngest child left home & we where no longer parents and neglected being a couple beyond that for so long the marriage ended. Our priority was to being parents first rather than a couple. Hell, our priorities where parents, career, (both) & maybe even a few other things. The marriage was on cruise control & because we where happy & content & still held hands we, & everyone around us,thought we where okay until my ex realized she wasn't. So maybe we can't have it all but but with a little co-operation & commitment maybe we can have whats most important to us.

 

We need a refrigerator magnet that says something like; "TODAYS PRIORITIES; #1 Our Marriage.. everything else; pick a number"

[Mme. Chaucer]

Maybe you are not the "marrying kind"? Not everybody is.

 

I am, though.

 

I don't look at marriage like you do, at all.

 

I am not thinking that the man I chose to marry is as close to "perfect" for me as I am going to get. That thought never even enters my mind.

 

I also NEVER think that he (or anyone) will fulfill all the needs and wants I have. There are many other people in my life who contribute to all of that - including my own daughter, sisters, multitudes of friends, etc. Even art, literature, and movies.

 

Sexually, I choose to be monogamous and that is not a challenge for me; I think I'm naturally monogamous. I would rather explore all that with one person I trust and love than go on sexual adventures. I know that not everyone is like this, and I know that sometimes the choice of sexual monogamy is a challenge.

 

I agree that you seem to be viewing marriage as a static situation. It is so very different from that. I view it more like choosing someone to be by my side through a very long, mysterious and challenging journey. I am hoping, and I do believe, that we will help and enhance each other's experience of life. Sometimes, we will cause each other problems and make things more difficult.

 

I actually get an almost visceral sense of walking together. Watching a great movie and talking about it, or drinking coffee silently in the dark dawn with some profound, quiet music playing - together - that's what I am in this for. Among a lot of other things sort of like those.

 

I was married before, and it went down in flames, but I still believe in marriage, for me.

[TigerCub]

Have you and your bf discussed that? I think your concerns are pretty realistic given divorce stats etc, so it might be good to address it from now. It could (statistically speaking) very well happen to you, so why not just bring it up? I do think marriage is challenging, and I don't think we're particularly suited as human beings to part of what it entails (for example, I don't think monogamy is a particularly 'natural condition', but then again there are a lot of aspects about the way we live our lives today that aren't very 'natural').

 

we have discussed it - he knows that my view of it isn't the Disney ideal - hehe that's putting it mildly.

 

He does agree that things can fall apart, but its not a sure thing either way.

 

He's a fan of the prenup because of the divorce stats.

 

At first, I thought that was a very unromantic doomed way of thinking, but now I do see it as a way to make a divorce (if it happens) a lot less complicated.

 

ETA: he is more optimistic of marriage than I am for sure though.

Edited February 21, 2012 by TigerCub

[Mme. Chaucer]

My ex & I where very happily married for all but about 2 years of more than 20 years & after that relationship ended, do mostly to mutual complacency that didn't survive a sudden change, I was convinced I would never marry again. Didn't want to, didn't need to. After the sting of divorce I was very happy with who I was & the life I had. I enjoyed dating much more in my 40's than I ever had before btw:) And then I meet this awesome woman, both of us had raised children so that wasn't a reason to get married. Both of us are very comfortable with who we are independent of one another. Neither of us had a good reason to get married other than a whole commitment to each other. A commitment, albeit symbolically, maybe. But a commitment to each other to build something we found together into something even better; a relationship between two people who enjoy being around one another enough that it makes working on maintaining that relationship, that happiness & contentment, a passion in itself. Not to mentions the sex is even better with someone you love.

 

 

You and I are in just about the exact same boat. I think "oldness" helps. I KNOW that my husband and I both CHOSE. There was absolutely no question of looking for the "closest to perfect" and maybe settling; we were just fine on our own. We don't have to "start a family," we don't have to venture into property ownership for the first time, we don't have to build our careers, we both learned a lot from our previous marriages, good and bad - and we both were / are basically awestruck that the universe ( or whatever) provided us with the opportunity to be together now.

[denise_xo]

we have discussed it - he knows that my view of it isn't the Disney ideal - hehe that's putting it mildly.

 

He does agree that things can fall apart, but its not a sure thing either way.

 

He's a fan of the prenup because of the divorce stats.

 

At first, I thought that was a very unromantic doomed way of thinking, but now I do see it as a way to make a divorce (if it happens) a lot less complicated.

 

I think prenups are a good idea. There are no guarantees in life and when people fall out things can get nasty in ways no one ever imagined when tying the knot. So I'd just go for that if I were you. But I think it's also very important to discuss, before they happen (or not), future scenarios such as a) what do we do if we start feeling that we are just room mates/ how do we avoid that, b) agree to tell each other as soon as it happens if you develop feelings for someone else, c) [insert any of the common LS divorce related scenarios], if you see what I mean...

[TigerCub]

I think prenups are a good idea. There are no guarantees in life and when people fall out things can get nasty in ways no one ever imagined when tying the knot. So I'd just go for that if I were you. But I think it's also very important to discuss, before they happen (or not), future scenarios such as a) what do we do if we start feeling that we are just room mates/ how do we avoid that, b) agree to tell each other as soon as it happens if you develop feelings for someone else, c) [insert any of the common LS divorce related scenarios], if you see what I mean...

 

Thanks Denise, those are good tips.

One thing I love about us as a couple, is that we talk about anything. We have touched on some of those items you mentioned, and I'll be sure to discuss more.

 

We're not close to marriage yet - we're just planning on living together in the fall, so we're not in any rush - but I figure there are so many issues that are better discussed now than later. Might as well find out now

[TigerCub]

Maybe you are not the "marrying kind"? Not everybody is.

 

I am, though.

 

I don't look at marriage like you do, at all.

 

I am not thinking that the man I chose to marry is as close to "perfect" for me as I am going to get. That thought never even enters my mind.

 

I also NEVER think that he (or anyone) will fulfill all the needs and wants I have. There are many other people in my life who contribute to all of that - including my own daughter, sisters, multitudes of friends, etc. Even art, literature, and movies.

 

Sexually, I choose to be monogamous and that is not a challenge for me; I think I'm naturally monogamous. I would rather explore all that with one person I trust and love than go on sexual adventures. I know that not everyone is like this, and I know that sometimes the choice of sexual monogamy is a challenge.

 

I agree that you seem to be viewing marriage as a static situation. It is so very different from that. I view it more like choosing someone to be by my side through a very long, mysterious and challenging journey. I am hoping, and I do believe, that we will help and enhance each other's experience of life. Sometimes, we will cause each other problems and make things more difficult.

 

I actually get an almost visceral sense of walking together. Watching a great movie and talking about it, or drinking coffee silently in the dark dawn with some profound, quiet music playing - together - that's what I am in this for. Among a lot of other things sort of like those.

 

I was married before, and it went down in flames, but I still believe in marriage, for me.

 

Thank you for your input

I agree that maybe not everyone is the marrying type. All I know is that I don't really know what type I am, and what the future holds.

[Lauriebell82]

Well, I agree there will always be some imperfections in people, therefore in a relationship. I do see what you are saying though Tiger, my husband doesn't have EVERY single quality that I would "want" but I accept and love him without those qualities. And he has MANY MANY MANY more that more then make up for what he doesn't. So even though it seems like things are missing, there are others that overpower those "missing" things, so THAT'S where the fullfillment comes from.

[wheream_i]

I have no faith in marriage.

 

It seems like everywhere I look (in real life, in fictional tv relationships, whatever), no one is really truly happy.

 

Well, I'm sure there are some happy people, but from what I see, the majority isn't really all that happy.

 

but ... here it is:

No one is perfect, so our partners (who we choose to marry) will never be 100% of what we want - I get that, I accept that.

 

But so say person A marries person B (and they are each other's Closest to perfect match) - then what?

- do they spend a lifetime with one another, knowing and feeling that there is a little something missing (because no one is a perfect match)

 

or do they just expect the other to fill a certain role in their life, and seek out the missing aspects (affairs or the more honest open marriage)?

 

I just have a very pessimistic view of the whole thing - its seems like getting things from different people is really how humans work, but the whole notion of monogamy tries so hard to deny that, and we as a society try so hard to make marriage and monogamy fit, but it doesn't usually.

 

I so want to believe that if my bf and I get married, we could have a happy life together and that we would work at it and not end up divorced, but is that really "natural" - to be in a very long term monogamous relationship where both partners actually do feel fulfilled?

 

It's like on Tv - they show these men (and women) who cheat on their partners (the partners are usually the caregiver to the kids, or the provider to the home) - but the WS cheat with someone completely different - leading to my conclusion that we have different people in our lives fill different roles, and people need more than one role filled.

 

I dunno if I'm explaining it well, but its just a very depressing idea.

 

Oh, also, with time people change and grow and who's to say that Person A and Person B will always be "Closest to Perfect" for one another as they were the day the got married?

 

Everything is so uncertain and there are so many variables, and I find that so distressing

 

Do people have faith in marriage anymore? If so, what gives you that faith? How do you still believe despite all the evidence to the contrary?

 

I completely agree with you.

[Radagast]

You and I are in just about the exact same boat. I think "oldness" helps. I KNOW that my husband and I both CHOSE. There was absolutely no question of looking for the "closest to perfect" and maybe settling; we were just fine on our own. We don't have to "start a family," we don't have to venture into property ownership for the first time, we don't have to build our careers, we both learned a lot from our previous marriages, good and bad - and we both were / are basically awestruck that the universe ( or whatever) provided us with the opportunity to be together now.

 

+1

 

There is much to be said for the wisdom and security that age, and having a starter marriage behind you, brings.

[OpenBook]

Rather do something that works for yourselves. If you need a priest or a magistrate to solemnise it for legal reasons, then cross your fingers, grit your teeth and sign what they need you to sign, but in your heart of hearts, you and your SO can swear to each other to uphold promises or commitments that mean something to you, instead of what some government or religion thinks you should be promising. If you love each other and want to be together, then promise what matters. To you.

 

Speaking only for myself here... this is the precise reason why I haven't remarried. I was (and still am) absolutely horrified with myself for not being able to deliver on that hefty lifetime promise I made before God & everybody on my wedding day. I am deathly afraid to repeat the same mistake - making a promise that I can't keep.

 

That hasn't stopped me from loving deeply and completely. Just the promise of tomorrow. For myself, it doesn't work to try to "lock it down."

[TigerCub]

Well, I agree there will always be some imperfections in people, therefore in a relationship. I do see what you are saying though Tiger, my husband doesn't have EVERY single quality that I would "want" but I accept and love him without those qualities. And he has MANY MANY MANY more that more then make up for what he doesn't. So even though it seems like things are missing, there are others that overpower those "missing" things, so THAT'S where the fullfillment comes from.

 

Thanks Lauriebelle. I completely understand what you're saying.

I'm not saying that I don't want to get married because he's not perfect. I'm not perfect I know that. Its just that it seems like a lot of marriages end in divorce or involve affairs at some point and to me, that says that one of the married people left to look for what's missing, or that it seems like a spouse fills only a certain role in someone's life. Its just a pessimistic view in general.

 

My question was more about what I see in general, not about my being worried that my boyfriend isn't perfect.

[TigerCub]

I completely agree with you.

 

Its a series of really sad and pessimistic thoughts eh?

 

Thanks for your input

[JazzyFox]

 

We need a refrigerator magnet that says something like; "TODAYS PRIORITIES; #1 Our Marriage.. everything else; pick a number"

 

To somewhat mimic what zengirl said a few postings back, I as well had stopped striving to find the "perfect person" or seeking marriage as the goal. I spent three years working on myself, and learning to be happy with myself in the present moment.

 

Once I stopped looking, and stopped evaluating each prospect against my "list", we found each other. He is as perfect as imperfect gets, for me.

 

That said, we have always said that our relationship is a daily choice. Everday we choose to be together and to give each other what we can. Sometimes it's a struggle or a challenge, and certainly my posts on LS reflect one side of those struggles.

 

But I feel myself growing in this relationship, improving, being a better person. And I know, and feel, the love and support of my partner as this happens. That alone, is worth every effort.

 

But of course, marriage is so much more (although I am still a newbie) of a partnership in life. We play, we love, we travel the globe, we listen, we tickle, we take on life projects together, we share the burden of disappointments and stress ... and this partnership provides me a kaleidoscope of emotions that brightens my world.