What will I do when I see him?

[Mollyanna]

This Sunday will be two weeks since we broke up. And yet I have called him SEVERAL times and we have talked for hours and hours. At first it was about us and all the reasons why he isn't ready for a relationship. Then we started talking about our families and things that are going on with them. We got deep into our issues and I cried many times and he got angry at my friends and my family for some stuff I told him they have done to me. I cried over things his exwife did to him.

 

I need him. I know he isn't coming back right now and it kills me. I still cry almost every day over him. But I miss him so much. Sunday is a birthday party for a mutual friend. We will both be there. How can I stop myself from gravitating to him? He hasn't told me to stop calling. He even calls me back when he sees that I have called - but he has NEVER initiated a call himself. I don't want to scare him away... but I don't know how to let him go...

 

I have asked him repeatedly if my calls bother him and he says no... but I am not sure I believe him. I love him and he knows that. My face lights up when I see him. I can't wait to see him!!! But I am scared of how I will act!

 

Please give some suggestions!

[sweetadeline]

Mollyanna, I've been thinking of you. Glad to hear you're doing okay--and you ARE, whether you realize it or not.

 

It's hard to know what to tell you about how to act at this party. So often in these situations, our faces and bodies betray us. And a lot depends on how much the other people there know about you and your ex. Do they know that the two of you were dating? If so, do they know about your breakup?

 

If the attitudes of the mutual friends aren't an issue, then I would just remind you that he is not the only reason you'll be going to this party. Even if he'd never entered your life, you'd want to go to this party because of the friend(s) holding it. That may seem like a really obvious thing to keep in mind, but it might help you to focus a bit less on what it's going to be like to see him again, what he might think of you, whether or not you'll end up getting back together if you see him there, etc. Try, if you can, to focus on the enjoyment you'll get out of the experience regardless of his presence. That way, no matter what happens with him, you'll have a good time--which will help you to get some perspective on your situation with him.

 

Oh, and I have a really funny/awful story about seeing my ex at a party given by a mutual friend who wanted us to get back together--let me know if you want to hear it sometime. . . .

[Mollyanna]

Hi SweetAdeline. Thank you so much for responding. You are right, I do need to remember the purpose of the party. To answer your question, yes everyone there knows we dated and quite a few of them know how devastated I am over this break up. ( i got drunk and cried at the Memorial Day party....in front of everyone...) Obviously i am not drinking very much at this birthday party, because I do not want to get emotional again!

 

We aren't going to get back together at this party. I know that 100%. I just don't want to be ignored. It will crush me if I try to talk to him and he blows me off. And it would be weird to ignore him when I talk to him on the phone almost every day!

 

Yes I would love to hear your story!!!

[Mollyanna]

I must be an idiot. a happy one but nonetheless, still an idiot. I saw X one day early... In fact, I called him last night and told him I was out. He left his friends at the bar they were at and came to see me at the bar I was at. We hung out all night and had a fabulous time. It was like nothing ever went wrong between us. Some guy told me that I looked really nice last night and X started joking around and said "Are you hitting on my woman?" His woman??? You just broke up with me 2 weeks ago! Hmmm what is going on? I mean this is like the third time we have done this - said we broke up but never do.. but before it only lasted a day or two. This time it has been 2 weeks so far.

 

I went home with him.. It was sort of by accident on my part. He had his mom's car last night. (A Spyder and it was hot!) He asked if I wanted to go for a ride? I hopped in and we rode around for a couple of hours. He didn't take me back to my car..Instead he took me to his house. I made one last attempt at being just a friend. I asked for some clothes to sleep in and said something about sleeping on the couch. He said, "The couch? Why would you be sleeping on the couch??" So, I didn't. And he held me all night. Sometime before morning we woke up and had incredible sex - I mean the best ever between us.

 

This morning we just laid there and talked for hours. I didn't get home until 1PM. Probably would have stayed there all day if his ex-wife would have frickin stopped calling him! (She called 4 times in 3 hours!) And each time he got a little more distant with me.

 

Tonight is the birthday party for our mutual friend. I don't know what to do. I figure if his ex-wife got him in some kind of bad mood today, he will tell me last night was a mistake. I am REAL tired of her...

[sweetadeline]

Hi Mollyanna,

 

How did things go at the actual party yesterday? It sounds as if things have been changing very quickly. . . .

 

The story you asked about is not that special, but it still makes me laugh! Basically, a guy who was friends w/both my ex and I had invited us both to his annual Super Bowl party. At some point, I was sitting in the same room as my ex (whom I hadn't seen since the breakup almost a year earlier) and the two of us were cracking jokes back and forth about the terrible Super Bowl halftime show. So our mutual friend said, "It's so great to see you two in the same room! Now, when are you going to start sharing a bed again?"

 

Keep in mind that there were about ten other people in the room with us at the time. . . .

 

Our friend later said that he was trying to annoy both of us so much that we would have to call each other to complain about him--and that we would end up getting back together. It didn't work, but it did leave both my ex and I with a great story!

[Mollyanna]

Great story! I bet it was embarassing at the time though! OMG

 

Well last night ended horribly. This morning was worse when he took me to his car. I basically told him I am not a prostitute but that is what he made me feel like last night. Basically he took me with him to take his friend home and then changed his mind and said he didn't want me at his house after all. He said the night before had been a mistake. (just like i predicted) He took me back to my car. But I was too drunk to drive. And I cried because I didn't know what to do. so he took me to his house after all. and I tried to sleep on the couch but he wouldn't let me.

 

then he won't give me any clothes to sleep in because he says that I can just sleep naked. We are at this point joking around with each other. I tell him Hell, you didn't even want me here, remember?" And he says, "Well but you are here, so as long as you are here...." somehow he jokes around with me enough and I get happy being around him and we end up having the quickest worst sex ever. (quite a difference from the night before of the best!)

 

but I woke up this morning feeling dirty and used. I demanded that he take me to my car. I told him I didn't even want to see him again. Told him to have a nice life. Thanked him for treating me like a prostitute. He said nothing. NOTHING. Wouldn't even open his mouth. I begged him to say something. And then I just got mad and said "oh hell, you can't even say something nice even now..." Still NOTHING....Then I get in my car and look over and he is still sitting there - with his head in his hands. I pull away and look back and see that he is CRYING! Why is he crying???????

[sweetadeline]

Ouch. I'm sorry.

 

Do you get the impression that you are starting to react differently to him? It sounds as if you were more assertive, or cynical, or something in that last incident than you had been before.

 

Anyway, I don't know why he was crying. My ex cried too when he broke up with me (er, actually when he said he needed time alone, right before dropping off the face of the earth). I thought that his willingness to cry in front of me meant that he would realize he cared about me too much to leave. But it didn't.

 

So I don't know why they cry when they hurt us. The angry part of me thinks that it's just guilt. The compassionate part thinks it's because they're hurting too, but not enough to stay and work things out. And to be fair, I remember crying once when I broke up with an ex (who seems like a prince now, by comnparison to disappearing-act guy). I was crying because I knew I was hurting him and while I really did think he was amazing, I knew, after two years of trying, that we weren't going to fly. So I broke down.

 

But it didn't mean that I was going to change my mind.

[Mollyanna]

Adeline:

You are right. My attitude did change. He noticed it too. He did a quick about face and wrote to me that next day saying he needed to think about stuff and that he would write back to me soon but he needed time to make sure he didn't screw up on the response.

 

Then I took off for Florida on Tuesday night. Drove over 18 hours to get here by myself. About 3 hours into the trip, I felt like a new woman. I'm getting my self-respect back slowly but surely - at least I think so sometimes.

 

I have been talking to him. He sat on the phone for 2 1/2 hours yesterday guiding me back to the correct side of Florida because I got lost. He sat at his computer on mapquest and practically held my hand street after street. And we talked a little about us. He said he was sorry. He said he knows he has been taking advantage of me. He promised to have the letter written to me by the end of the week so I can think about it while I am still here. (I'm going back Sunday or Monday). I told him there are a few things that I need to hear or I am done with even having a friendship with him. He wanted a hint but I told him it needs to come from his heart.

 

I need to hear:

1. Why he is sorry

2. What happened the other night

3. What is he doing to get over his ex-wife?

4. A promise that he will never lead me on again

5. An idea of what we are going to mean to each other. Can we even be friends??? Are we leaving the relationship option open for the future??

[sweetadeline]

Hey Mollyanna,

 

Sounds as if you're doing much better. . .good for you for leaving town! Sometimes a change of scene can do wonders. In the middle of relationship (or non-relationship) hell, it can become really easy to focus too much on the other person--what we need to do to please him/get him back/keep him. By taking off alone, you broke that cycle and placed your focus back where it should be: on yourself. Try to hang onto that even after you come back. Because, as you said in your other recent post, love isn't supposed to be so one-sided, so gut-wrenching, and so self-destructive.

[faux]

What you need right now is not this man. You do not need him. You need to deal with your issues on your own and find strength in yourself to improve your situation. Relying on him to come and save you is only going to make things worse.

[Mollyanna]

He wrote the letter tonight. I am devastated. It was like a Dear John letter. He is done with me as a girlfriend. He just wants to be friends. The letter is heartwarming that he does care enough to write it and tell me that I am good for him and that more than anything he would like to continue for us to be friends. He apologized for taking advantage of my feelings for him.

 

This one line of the letter keeps making me read it over and over again though. It says:

I understand that your feelings for me are much greater than mine for

you, but I do understand what you're going through. I am sorry that it

didn't really work out between us, but I do think we can remain friends

if we are careful for the time being.

 

What do you think he meant about "for the time being"? Am I reading too much into it? He has made comments before that he didn't know what would become of us - that maybe once he deals with getting over his ex-wife that we will be together. Do you think he still means that? That is what I read into that as. Like he is saying "for the time being, we will be friends only" - but maybe he is leaving the door open? I don't know.. Maybe I am just looking for hope...

[DerangedAngel]

He has made comments before that he didn't know what would become of us - that maybe once he deals with getting over his ex-wife that we will be together. Do you think he still means that? That is what I read into that as.

 

Well, from the way he worded it, I don't think he means you can be friends for the time being, but that you have to be careful about it for the time being. As in no more sleep overs, not seeing each other often. Trying to let things die down for a while.

 

Otherwise, would it have not been like "We can be friends for the time being if we're careful"? You know what I'm saying? Perhaps I'm analyzing too much and maybe he writes that way, but I think you're been foolish by holding onto any hope with guy.

 

He is done with me as a girlfriend. He just wants to be friends. You said it, now believe it.

 

You don't need him.

 

-Deranged

[sweetadeline]

Mollyanna,

 

After reading the segment of the letter included in your post, I have to say that I agree with DerangedAngel's interpretation of it. I think he would like to preserve the friendship, but that he thinks that you two need to be very careful for a while (read: limit your contact) to make sure that is even possible. If you want to try to be friends with him in the future, you need to figure out how to limit and/or eliminate contact with him now and for a while to come. Maybe you can set a time limit for yourself (e.g., we can exchange e-mails once every 4-6 weeks, but nothing beyond that). As for what happens in the future, I think that the other posters are right. I don't think you can count on a relationship with this guy. Unfortunately, because you met him when he was still recovering from his failed marriage, he (unintentionally) cast you in the dead-end part of Transition Woman. And I think the conventional wisdom holds true here: people don't tend to go back to their transitional women (or men) later on. They tend to find new people, ones who don't remind them of that part of their lives.

 

But the real issue here is your own self-respect. Believe me, I KNOW how hard it is to want a particular person and have that desire be denied. But even if he suddenly decided to give you what you wanted, could you trust him? Could you feel safe with him? Could you respect yourself for being with someone who had put you on an emotional roller-coaster for the last three or four months? Remember your earlier post: love isn't supposed to be this devastating. Of course, a real relationship takes work. But there's a difference between two people pulling together to make something work (a relationship) and one person pulling while simultaneously shouting, "Hey, wait! Come back!" to the other person's retreating back.

 

There's an MSN group on surviving breakups (yep, I've found 'em all) that advocates no contact with the ex as the only way to survive. Consider adopting that policy with this guy, at least for now. Later, if you can handle it, you can consider being his friend. Right now, you might need to cut ties for a while in order to end this back-and-forth, mutually destructive dance.

[Mollyanna]

I used to believe in the no-contact rule as well until I met my ex J (3 ex's ago..) I was devastated when we broke up because I really was going to miss him. But we still talk almost every day and hang out every week and give each other relationship advice. This has been going on for over a year. I have no desire to get back with him. All the feelings I had for him dissolved when I started dating the next guy... I mean I still cherish him but I don't really know what I saw in him as a love-partner. In fact, he is the one who introduced me to X!

 

X and I talked a couple of times today because I was making that long drive home from Florida... and we are considering hanging out together tonight. We have been talking about the difficult relationship type stuff only on email.

 

This morning I wrote and said:

I think you were looking too hard for an instant "I love her so much that I am now over my ex-wife" i am sorry I failed the "experiment". I still really think we were great together and that maybe in the future when we both get

over our afflictions - that we will be together. (what do you think about that? you used to be open to that possibility - are you now???)

 

Today he wrote back and said:

I don't think my feelings about that have changed. Always a possibility. Never know what the future holds

 

 

Maybe you think I am silly for holding onto that hope, but this is something we talked about before - that we think we just met at the wrong time. He is not ready to date ANYONE. He said he isn't planning on trying it again anytime soon. And he has said previously that I am good for him and that I am just what he needs. Well dammit I need him too. And maybe I can't have it at the level that I want but maybe I can just be satisfied with what I can have. And who knows - when the next guy comes along - I may be over X just like I was with J. Maybe I just need a new man to transfer these feelings too. That sounds destructive but - maybe that is how I operate!

[uriel]

Mollyanna,

 

This guy is using you, and he's setting up the grounds to do it very carefully -- to preserve enough of your feelings and the semblance of a real relationship to make you stay but offering you nothing you deserve in return. Men use women emotionally as well as sexually, don't forget.

 

Let's keep some facts straight: You are not this guy's friend. You're his lover and more. You had the possibility of a real partnership with him -- and from everything you've said, you're a quality lady who deserved that. He's decided he doesn't want that, but he still wants you around. Since he can't resist having sex with you, and thinks the sex might blow any contact with you for good, he's doing all this talk about being careful.

 

But who does "being careful" benefit? Him again. You will now be held at a distance that will eat away at your self esteem and make your heart ache. Every now and then, you two might slip again. But then he can fall back on this just friends agreement so that he doesn't owe you a relationship. He'll say you were both weak; it's no one's fault. Right. You love him and he wants your body. That's not a fair exchange.

 

He's flat out told you that your feelings are stronger than his. That's not a good thing. Even if you want to tell yourself he has feelings he's not expressing or acting on, you also know that they aren't enough for him to commit to you. He doesn't want you, but doesn't want anyone else to have you either. Meanwhile, he's free to play the field (and believe me he is).

 

You need to tell him that it's over: friendship and otherwise. It's all or nothing. Anything less is going to be pure torture -- and, knowing what you do, self-torture. You're going to be the one choosing to hurt yourself, ultimately, if you don't walk away. Right now, I'd say the blame's on him. Shame on him for playing with your heart. He stinks.

 

-- uriel

[Mollyanna]

He doesn't stink. He is not seeing anyone else. I see girls flirt with him and he has no interest. Besides that I talk to him every day and pretty well know his every movement.He does care about me. He has said he doesn't have it in his heart to love anyone right now - me or Claudia Shiffer or anyone else who may happen into his life. He gave his heart to his wife and until he can get over that pain, he only has so much to offer.

 

Yes I am sad that he doesn't love me - but that doesn't make him a bad person. I know him VERY well. We have about all of the same friends and I know his family. He doesn't want to use me or to hurt me. He is just confused. He wants me on his terms. That is unfortunate and something I need to deal with.

 

Last night he and I went out together and played darts. We had a great time and I was pretty happy because he saw a couple of guys flirting with me. I could tell that bothered him a little. Then we went and got stuff to eat and came back to my house. He stayed here in my bed but nothing happened. Sure we flirted a little but he knows that if he pulls anything toward me sexually that our friendship is done. Maybe he was counting on me to be the one who slips up but I refuse to. Sure I want him - and last night was a little tortureous. But it was also great to just have him here. We stayed up until 6AM talking and laughing.

 

I just can't let him go yet. I enjoy him too much. but I am going to take SweetAdeline's advice and limit my contact. Maybe I just need to ween myself off of him little by little.

[uriel]

So it's okay that he's having sex with you knowing that you have feelings for him that he doesn't return? I'm sorry; you're right: He's a man of character. He's not taking without giving. Even after you told him that made you feel like a prostitute, he felt okay prositituting you again. He really does care about your feelings after all.

 

Does that make sense?

 

Wake up. Character can't be compartmentalized. Stop making excuses for a man who walks on your feelings. He has a broken heart? Well, what about yours? Shouldn't that give him the empathy necessary to make sure he doens't hurt anyone else?

 

I'm sure he does make you feel good when you're with him. He's not all bad -- and he's charming, good looking, etc. to boot. He likes you, too, and is attracted to you sexually. You get an ego boost around him. You experience friendship. Unfortunately, it's a friendship that's hurt you or you wouldn't have written in. You need to keep a more consistent head about this or you're going to get hurt again.

 

He's used you before; he will another time. He'll make the same excuses. You'll be left out in the cold. It's an old story -- or else why do you think all sorts of sensible women get into these messes? It's the guy's being so apparently decent while he's doing them wrong that screws with their self-preservation radar.

 

-- uriel

[Mollyanna]

He has apologized and apologized for taking advantage of me. He is one the kindest, sweetest people I know. The type of guy who will give you his last dollar if you need it, will risk being late to work to stop on the highway and help a stranger. He is supportive and kind and loving and the most wonderful father. He doesn't mean to hurt me. You make his sound like a monster! He isn't. He is just really messed up right now over his divorce. It doesn't help that she calls him every single day.

 

My problem here is just letting him go romantically without tearing myself apart wondering what is wrong with me. It isn't just him I am upset about. I am upset that I am 31 and never married and no children. I am upset that I really work hard at relationships and never get anywhere. I'm to the point where I can't figure out what is so wrong with me that no one loves.

 

Last night he showed up where I was with mutual friends. We talked and played darts together. We even both took our friends home and met back up there. We both took off for our own homes and I called him on his cell phone before we even left the parking lot. He had been acting distant and very weird all night. I asked him about it and he said he didn't notice. Then suddenly we start talking serious and my depression comes out and I start asking HIM what is wrong with me? Why don't you want me? What is it about me that doesn't match the image you have of what you need? I begged and pleaded and he sat there defensively quiet and eventually got really angry because I wouldn't accept "I don't know" as an answer. And I wouldn't accept "There is NOTHING wrong with you!" I just kept pushing and pushing and crying. And then as soon as he got angry, I couldn't stop apologizing. Finally at 4AM we said goodnight. This morning he emailed me and said he was sorry for being angry and that I shouldn't have to apologize for speaking my mind. Then he just wrote about some stuff that was bothering him with work.

 

I think I get it now! When he is unhappy in some other area of his life - then he is unhappy with me too. I reviewed the past and see the patterns now. But I can't live my life adjusting around his moods. However, I REALLY want to stay friends with him, but definitely need to limit my contact now. How do I make myself stop calling and emailing him?? He is all I think about these days.

[sweetadeline]

Mollyanna,

 

I'm just responding to your question about how to get yourself to stop calling/e-mailing him so often. One of my friends suggested to me that I call or write to her whenever I felt like calling or writing to my ex. You might try that approach.

 

I've also been told that I can pick up the receiver and say everything I want to say to my ex as if he were on the phone--without dialing his number. I never tried that approach, but it might be useful for you.

 

And then there are always the old standbys: instead of calling, go for a walk, or turn on the TV, or knit.

 

Years ago, I read a book called *How to Break your Addiction to a Person.* (I know, I know--self-help books; but some of them can be useful at times.) You can probably find it on Amazon or in your local library. I don't remember it very well, but the author's premise was that certain kinds of relationships, at certain times, can function in ways that resemble addiction. If I remember it right, the book discusses the ways in which wanting to contact the person can become addictive--and how this addiction can be broken like any other.

 

But, you know, I think the most important part of your post was where you discussed how your relationship w/X triggers your feelings of not being good enough. I'm thinking of this part in particular:

 

am upset that I am 31 and never married and no children. I am upset that I really work hard at relationships and never get anywhere. I'm to the point where I can't figure out what is so wrong with me that no one loves.

 

Your real task isn't to sort out the relationship w/X. It's to sort out the emotions behind those lines. (I'm not preaching here, but speaking from experience, since I have some of the same issues. . . .)

[Mollyanna]

I am really not doing so well at that SweetAdeline! I don't know if I am coming or going right now. I am very emotional and cry at the drop of a hat right now. And I STILL can't stay away from him. My guy friends play on a softball team on Thursday nights. These are the guys I have been hanging out with regularly for the last year and a half. Myself and some of the other girls always go and watch the games and then afterwards everyone meets up at our bar. Why did they ask X to be their new shortstop???? He is in the group now. It is official. That makes it so much harder on me. I mean I love him being there, but when we are around each other, sometimes he acts like we are still a couple - and so do I. I can't remember what the conversation was about last night, but he made some comment at the table to everyone about me being wild in bed. (It was a spinoff from someone else picking on me for being wild at something else - and X said "Well, I could tell you some stories..." ) It WAS pretty funny - but isn't that a little too intimate to say for someone who is not my boyfriend anymore??

 

After the game last night, we all had such a good time, but sometimes that just isn't enough for me. Always the morning after I feel slighted. He can't understand why I won't just enjoy our time together and have to upset myself every time. It is when we part and he doesn't kiss me goodbye - that is when the tears come. Everyone else had left last night except us and the owner (one of our mutual friends). It is always that way. We never want to end the night. That is why we always end up at each other's houses. I spent the night there last night in his bed - (but nothing happened). This morning he got up and went to work and left me there at his house alone. He didn't even wake me up. I appreciate that he trusts me that much to leave me there alone - but it would have been nice if he could have said Goodbye!

 

I called him and asked him about it - and he said he didn't see a purpose to waking me up - that I was sleeping and didn't have to be up as early as him for work. Am I being too sensitive because that really really bothered me?

 

It is a little difficult to act like a couple 75% of the time and then just suddenly be expected to accept "just friends" type of things. What am I going to do????? I am going to see this man every week of my life because of our mutual interests and mutual friends. We play in the same volleyball leagues. We hang out at the same bar. We have the same friends - thus go to the same dinners and cookouts and celebrations. And now he is on their softball team!! We are sooooo good together and it is obvious to everyone!!! He even knows it - he just isn't ready.... I wish I could just MAKE him be ready....

[uriel]

Since I don't know this guy -- and you do -- I'll accept that he has good intentions but doesn't have the ability or insight to control himself from getting close enough to you to hurt you. If he really meant to protect you, he'd keep his distance, knowing how you feel. Nuff said on that.

 

You actually don't have to worry about what to do in order to keep yourself away from him. Pain will do that for you. It's the only thing that worked for me, anyway. When you see him with someone else, you'll get a hit that will distance you, for a time anyway.

 

Or, maybe, if you're very lucky, he'll make up his mind about you and stop sitting on the fence. Cause if he doesn't and he keeps doing what he's doing and more, you're in for a world of hurt. Just been there -- and hope it works out differently for you.

 

-- uriel