I think I'm on the verge of dating a woman I don't want

[insertnamehere]

OK, "a woman I don't want" is probably a bit stronger than the reality, but I don't have enough vocabulary to make a granular enough characterization of the relationship.

 

A long outline:

 

1. She's 21 and I'm 33.

 

2. She has made it repeatedly known to me that she'd like to go out with me. I've blown her off pretty badly. And repeatedly.

 

She seems to think it's a matter of just dialing it in right, because she's tried being really upbeat when she sees me then being pouty the next or giving me the stink eye. She tried doing the whole "oh, we're just sittin and talkin and wouldn't it be nice . . . " and "ya know, I get off work at . . ."

 

3. She's in college and she's in that really obnoxious flustered about everything stage of her life. The whole "are there any decent guys" and "I'm taking a semester off" and "**** my job" stage.

 

4. I'm white and she's Hispanic.

 

4.a. I've known her to make an issue of race. We're in a fairly white part of the country ~85% white, 10% black, 5% asian, almost no Hispanics -- not even during construction season. She's from a part of the northeast that is all Puerto Rican, Dominican and black American. So, while I find it grating, I do get where she's coming from.

 

4.b. I made the mistake of reading what she has posted online about me to her friends. Mostly on Twitter (using Twitter -- that's a demerit, right there!!!). I'm never just a cute guy. I'm a "cute white guy".

 

4.c. My take away from talking to her is that I'm the first real-life white guy she's ever wanted to date. As best I can tell, her entire knowledge of white men is derived from movies and college.

 

5. She can never shut up about how well dressed I am. I always hate this because it really sets off my gold-digger alarm with women. I realize that being in college the only well-dressed white guys she sees are cops.

 

6. She's very up or she's very down. There's never an in between with her. When I'm out and I see her, she's either jumping up and down waving me over to a group or she's drinking by herself looking off into space. Big red flag, to say the least.

 

The counter argument is, she's young. What looks like depression in a younger person is often just ennui.

 

7. I don't know a polite way to put this, but . . . she sometimes comes off as very uncultured. She makes more references to cock and pussy than a 14 year old trying to rap. She says she like articulate guys, but that really goes a gear in my brain to rachet a bit because all I want to scream is "Really?!?! Then why don't you trying being a bit more articulate?!"

 

8. Physically, she's my type all the way.

 

9. I'd be open to FWB arrangement. But, my sense is that while she'd go for it, it would be one of those cases where it's to get a foot in the door. That just feels a bit too exploitative for my taste.

 

10. A lot of the reason I'm even considering taking her out is that she's starting to get very down. I do consider her a friend. There is an impulse there to at least let her get a decent night out. If I thought there was a way to do that without getting her hopes up, I would have already done it.

 

11. I don't have any other prospects at the moment. Well, not quite nothing, but no women that don't throw up even bigger red flags.

 

12. She knows I'm not dating anyone and she knows I find her physically attractive. This seems to be slowly poisoning the friendship. In fact, I'm pretty sure if she ever decides the prospect of something has dropped to zero that that will be the end of the friendship, too.

 

13. I've had my issues with not giving relationships a chance. It's been a long time since I've seriously dated anyone. Fooled around? Sure. Real dates? It's been more than five years.

 

To be honest, I wish I could have just met her at a later point in her life. I suspect a lot of the red flags are just maturity issues. But, to be honest, raising an adult child isn't gonna fly with me.

 

I don't know. It's not like it would disrupt anything to just take her out on a date, right?

[Leigh 87]

if you are attracted to her, why not have sex with her, or a fwb? if she is always up and down, I would probably just have a one time fling, to be honest.. tell her you are looking for a no strings attached thing, and that having sex more than once, would run the risk of people getting hurt.

[FrustratedStandards]

You just listed 13 reasons why you don't want to date her.

 

Why is it you're having trouble again?

 

You're probably bored or lonely. Or both.

 

But trust me, getting involved with a woman who is already insistent is not a good idea.

[Emilia]

 

To be honest, I wish I could have just met her at a later point in her life. I suspect a lot of the red flags are just maturity issues. But, to be honest, raising an adult child isn't gonna fly with me.

 

I don't know. It's not like it would disrupt anything to just take her out on a date, right?

 

Speaking from experience, more than likely the whole thing will turn out to be something unsatisfying even if the sex is hot (which may or may not be the case with a 21-year-old anyway).

 

Take her out on a date if you want but be prepared to be annoyed by her

[insertnamehere]

You're probably bored or lonely. Or both.

 

Anyone who says it doesn't get tough after a while is lying.

 

This is really the first time in my life where I've felt the need to just settle for a warm body. It's a little disconcerting, because that's not me at all.

 

Take her out on a date if you want but be prepared to be annoyed by her

 

I know. That's why I'm cringing a bit.

 

tell her you are looking for a no strings attached thing, and that having sex more than once, would run the risk of people getting hurt.

 

If I get to the point where I've just given up completely and decide to let my body have its way, I will have to keep this plan in mind.

[Feelin Frisky]

She's a PRAP who thinks her shi+ doesn't stink. I went with a PRA princess for a short while. All I can about her was that thankfully it was easy to shut her out when she finally crossed the line. She definitely WAS a gold digger and tried to milk me at every turn for expenditures beyond my means--including damn-near demanding Luis Vuitton pocket book for mother's day--she was a single mother by someone else. WTF? I know I looked like a million bucks at the time but I didn't make a million bucks. The only good thing I can say is she had the most aesthetically perfect pussy I've ever encountered. But that's not nearly as important as being a trust-worthy and decent person. Perhaps you'll get some and enough and it will be over clean like what happened with me. It was a learning experience and had a few good perks.

[FitChick]

A woman like this would probably lie about using birth control, hoping to get pregnant so a man would support her.

[insertnamehere]

She's a PRAP

 

PRAP = Puerto Rican American Princess, correct? Just making sure I read ya right. Deriving this from BAP and the like.

 

including damn-near demanding Luis Vuitton pocket book

 

It wasn't this particular chick, but I had a conversation not unlike that just before Christmas with a chick at the bar who would not stop. Her version was "you can buy me some Dolce and Gabana". That failed and she went down to "you can buy me a drink". She just kept scaling down. It was weird.

 

Oh, and she was married. This was a chick who was hitting on me and I was trying to shoo her away, because a wedding ring is a line I don't cross.

 

I'm about ready to go back to dressing like I'm in a 90s rock band. Looking good when you go out seems to be a bad a choice for a guy. I like to dress well when I go out, but holy hell! I don't think being caught in possession of a car coat and some Sean Jean should be grounds for losing your faith in humanity.

 

A woman like this would probably lie about using birth control, hoping to get pregnant so a man would support her.

 

I assume you're referring to Feelin Frisky's case.

 

The chick I'm talking about, whatever her faults are, doesn't scream baby-havin type to me. Not at this point anyhow. Generally the ones that can make it past 20 without a kid can make it to marriage before having a kid.

[mixwell]

I'm not a pro here but it kinda seems like you're on a more stable and mature level. I was 25 dating a chick that was 19 and she was hispanic and really attractive but she kind of had no clue what was going on in the real world. I do think this chick is probably similar with your age gap.

 

While now at 28 years old I made a vow to try and never date a female who was younger than 23 because it's not a huge age gap but at the stage in age it is as far as "real life" experience is concerned. I think if you met her in 3-4 years later she would probably have a different perspective on how life goes but I think you're probably more rational at your age and she is an emotional train wreck of emotions and dramatizations.

 

It's a tough one to call, you can choose to stick it out but I'm sure after a while it will probably prove to be quite a turn off and annoying with her inability to communicate on more of a rational level until she gets a few more years on her.

[shayla]

From reading the original post, you don't like this girl. If you date this girl, your dislike will show in everything you say and do.

 

Do yourself and her a favor and just say no.

[Ranchero44]

 

She makes more references to cock and pussy than a 14 year old trying to rap. She says she like articulate guys, but that really goes a gear in my brain to rachet a bit because all I want to scream is "Really?!?! Then why don't you trying being a bit more articulate?!"

 

 

I don't know what to tell you, man, but this part made me laugh out loud. Thanks.

[InJest]

Dude, just bang her already..but keep your distance. It's pretty clear that's what you want to do. Just do it until she demands more or you decide you don't want to anymore.

[insertnamehere]

^ ^ ^

 

The problem for me is that I don't like to try anything casual with a woman who I know would prefer more. It just doesn't feel on the level.

 

Truth is, the whole issue of casual sex has started to bother me because I've come to the conclusion that women don't mean it . . . ever. I've had a few incidents in the last year that have left me convinced that women only agree to casual sex in the hope that it will lead to more.

 

I'm at a point in my life where pondering the ethics of sex and relationships has sapped my faith in humanity. Especially now that I'm far past financially stable, it scares me to see what women will let me do. It certainly dashes any boyish notions of romantic love. (Don't laugh -- guys are worse than girls in this department. What do you think is the point of the movie Say Anything?)

 

This pause has left me feeling lonely as hell. I miss being young and dumb and not having my **** together and feeling lucky anytime a girl thought I was cute. This **** at age 33 just takes the life out of me.

[Ranchero44]

^ ^ ^

 

The problem for me is that I don't like to try anything casual with a woman who I know would prefer more. It just doesn't feel on the level.

 

Truth is, the whole issue of casual sex has started to bother me because I've come to the conclusion that women don't mean it . . . ever. I've had a few incidents in the last year that have left me convinced that women only agree to casual sex in the hope that it will lead to more.

 

I'm at a point in my life where pondering the ethics of sex and relationships has sapped my faith in humanity. Especially now that I'm far past financially stable, it scares me to see what women will let me do. It certainly dashes any boyish notions of romantic love. (Don't laugh -- guys are worse than girls in this department. What do you think is the point of the movie Say Anything?)

 

This pause has left me feeling lonely as hell. I miss being young and dumb and not having my **** together and feeling lucky anytime a girl thought I was cute. This **** at age 33 just takes the life out of me.

 

I think you are right about the casual sex part . . . I think most women agree to casual sex, hoping it will turn into something more. I no longer agree to these types of relationships, because it took me some hard knocks to realize that someone usually gets hurt. But I am absolutely convinced that women say "yes" to casual sexual relationships with their fingers crossed.

 

I miss being young too. I never thought I'd be dealing with this kind of stuff in my late thirties, so I feel your pain. This seems to be an epoch of generalized mass confusion in the land of dating.

 

Casual sex is WAAAAAAAAAAAY overrated anyhow.

[insertnamehere]

^ ^ ^

 

In the spirit of lending specificity to some of the generalizations I've been making . . .

 

Over the summer while I was in Europe on a long (and long overdue) vacation I had a bit of a fling with a German chick who was a couple years older than me.

 

At least that was the premise . . . until . . . she eventually decided post-coitus to ask me if she was the kind of girl I could see myself having kids with. I didn't even give her a real answer, just some shamble to the effect of "I like you". Needless to say, that put a nice a bow on that whole experience.

 

It's been stuff like that and the gold-digger story I told earlier in the thread damn near non-stop for the last year for me. I can't go near a woman now without expecting some sort of upsetting incident anywhere from the first minute to no later than the end of the first week.

 

I hate it because I feel like the better I do in life, the harder it is to just go on a date.

[Emilia]

You can't avoid this sort of thing, people get attached when they like you. As someone said once 'sex is only casual when it's not done properly'. I stopped having casual sex intentionally about 5 years ago now. I'm not saying it won't happen again but I don't date with the intention of being casual only anymore.

 

It meant casual with guys I didn't like that much and came to the conclusion that I don't want to have sex with men I don't like that much. The men I like I want to date properly of course, it would be masochistic to act otherwise.

 

It is definitely easier to date men from this point of view because they stick up for themselves more than women do yes but I dated much younger guys and they can be quite pliable - which in turn made me feel really guilty. I don't enjoy contributing to someone's insecurity and most people are insecure until their late 20s.

 

How do you usually meet women OP?

[insertnamehere]

As someone said once 'sex is only casual when it's not done properly'.

 

I will have to hold on to that quote. I think that summarizes it better than I've been trying.

 

It meant casual with guys I didn't like that much and came to the conclusion that I don't want to have sex with men I don't like that much.

 

Hmmm . . . I had not considered the possibility that women might be using casual sex as a firewall when dealing with mediocre guys.

 

I'm not certain I'm comfortable with that says about me in the initial phase of things . . .

 

How do you usually meet women OP?

 

These days? Bars and clubs.

 

When I was younger, I used to meet women through school and work. At that time, the vast majority of women who took an interest me did so because they saw me as good at what I do. Example: in college, I could not fail to get laid helping out in a study room or a computer lab.

 

When I was in my late 20s I got sick of making other people rich and started my own business. This shut down the pipeline completely, because the women I come into contact with on a daily basis now are all owners and managers of businesses and are literally all married, as in I have yet to meet one who was single.

 

My longest drought was 2.5 years . . . well, this was the drought period. Of course, when you're putting in 20 hour days and draining your bank account to zero, this is all a non-issue.

 

Eventually things settled down and the money started coming in and the business stopped eating every waking hour I had and there am I with no idea what to do for dating. I'm not a religious person. I'm not a civic-minded person. So, where else can a fella go to find a gal? The bar.

[Emilia]

Hmmm . . . I had not considered the possibility that women might be using casual sex as a firewall when dealing with mediocre guys.

 

I'm not certain I'm comfortable with that says about me in the initial phase of things . . .

 

They weren't mediocre, I just didn't see them as men I wanted to date for whatever reason. Usually our personalities didn't mesh beyond a certain point. No-one's fault or shortcomings. That became old very quickly though of course.

 

 

When I was in my late 20s I got sick of making other people rich and started my own business. This shut down the pipeline completely, because the women I come into contact with on a daily basis now are all owners and managers of businesses and are literally all married, as in I have yet to meet one who was single.

 

My longest drought was 2.5 years . . . well, this was the drought period. Of course, when you're putting in 20 hour days and draining your bank account to zero, this is all a non-issue.

 

Eventually things settled down and the money started coming in and the business stopped eating every waking hour I had and there am I with no idea what to do for dating. I'm not a religious person. I'm not a civic-minded person. So, where else can a fella go to find a gal? The bar.

 

Yes it's hard when you hit a certain age anyway, regardless what your job is. Most of my colleagues are married. I do have interests though that have allowed me to build a varied social circle and I meet new people that way. Do you have time for hobbies? You are a smart guy, you could put your intellect and your social skills to good use.

[FrustratedStandards]

Anyone who says it doesn't get tough after a while is lying.

 

This is really the first time in my life where I've felt the need to just settle for a warm body. It's a little disconcerting, because that's not me at all.

 

I get it, but I still don't think you should settle for her in particular. Its funny how I always say that most people settle, yet everyone disagrees and says the right person will come along and you should wait. Yet here you are admitting that although it's not like yourself, you need and want companionship.

 

Proves my point.

 

Anyways, i'm not at the point where its tough, but i'm getting there. And I get it. I really do.

 

I just think you should find someone else to settle with. This one here is a red flag, at least from my own perspective. As a woman, I have seen men who have gotten into relationships with insistent women, and from what I have seen, it never bodes well.

 

I hope everything works out for you

[insertnamehere]

Do you have time for hobbies? You are a smart guy, you could put your intellect and your social skills to good use.

 

The problem I have is that I don't "hobby" well. For example, I tried to do photography. Before too long, it became a business and I eventually abandoned it because I really don't need another business weighing on my mind. And a week doesn't pass someone doesn't act like I shot their dogs because I won't do it anymore.

 

Relaxation is not my thing. When I took my vacation I lost 40 pounds in two months because I didn't eat, didn't sleep, went everywhere during the day and then partied from midnight until 6am almost every night. And, for fun, I also had my laptop with me using it connect remotely to my computers back home -- so I was also doing work the whole time!! by the time I made it home, I had pneumonia and I was down to my last belt hole keeping my britches on!

 

When you really get into me for who I am . . . I'm a bit overwhelming. I'm not an easy person to just casually relate to. It's one of the reasons I don't seek real relationships. Simply put, I have a hard time picturing myself relating to anyone.

 

I can remember an exchange with one of the women in my life. I told her something about "we work hard so we can play hard". Her response: "What if we work enough and just play nice?"

 

Its funny how I always say that most people settle, yet everyone disagrees and says the right person will come along and you should wait.

 

You can't pin any of that on me! I fairly strongly agree.

 

I think the problem with waiting for the right person to come along is that it's the old problem of letting the perfect get in the way of the good.

Edited February 23, 2012 by insertnamehere

[FrustratedStandards]

I think the problem with waiting for the right person to come along is that it's the old problem of letting the perfect get in the way of the good.

 

Really? I have yet to find something good.

 

Besides, I think most people confuse "perfect" with "perfect for me". If we all thought about "perfect for me" then I think our attitudes towards finding a partner would be very different. And I admit, I am very picky and have high standards (hence the username) so i'm in the same boat.

 

At the same time, though, shouldn't someone who is so picky recognize at least something when it's good? If we are so picky and want perfection, then obviously we are disappointed most of the time. In that case, at least we can spot something good because we are usually surrounded by disappointments. Wouldn't you agree?

 

(Then again this is borderline to "nothing is ever good enough".)

Edited February 23, 2012 by FrustratedStandards

[insertnamehere]

If we are so picky and want perfection, then obviously we are disappointed most of the time.

 

Sorry, I'm a straight male. We're not known for being picky. The longest relationship I ever had in my life was off-and-on with a girl I hated from Day One. But, she was there when I needed someone there. Ah, blessed be the dorm with a co-ed floor. Didn't even have to put on shoes to go on a date!

 

Scarily enough, that's kinda what this current situation reminds me of (the hate part, not the shoes part).

 

Bah . . . stoopid existential crisis anyhow.

[RecordProducer]

You don't respect her so a relationship is out of the question.

You said if you even took her on a date she would have her hopes up, let alone if you slept with her, so that'sout of the question,too. She is young and hot, but unsuitableforyou, sodon'tcomplicate your and her lives. Stay friends. By the way, FWB is a relationship, no matter what sticker people put on it.

 

The only good thing I can say is she had the most aesthetically perfect pussy I've ever encountered.

Uh-oh. You're about to spend some time in the dog house!

[InJest]

I don't see what your problem is here. You've established she's a gold digger. Mercilessly bang the **** out of her, which shouldn't be hard since you already don't like her. I mean be rough. Take the ass, with no lube. Then get her a purse or something. Never consent to putting a label on the relationship. I'd suggest not buying a gift every time you bang her. Maybe once every couple months. Don't talk to her on the phone either. Just text her when you want some. Sounds like that would make her more than happy. Sounds like she'd be happy just to say she's banging a white guy. Stop making such a big deal out of this ****. Do you know how many people on this forum would kill to be in your shoes?

[ffw]

Really?

 

Besides, I think most people confuse "perfect" with "perfect for me". If we all thought about "perfect for me" then I think our attitudes towards finding a partner would be very different.

 

Sounds like you are preaching the Soulmate concept.