zengirl Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 All people are simple, and all people are complex, I'd say. Is socialized male psychology, at the societal sense, complex? Equally as complex to female socialization, I'd say, though easily generalized, just as female socialization is. . . that's how socialization goes. Are individual men simple or complex? I'd say this varies, man to man, but generally all people have their areas of complexity. Male socialization suggests that men be less verbally confusing/complex than women (in general) because it places greater value on pith, straightforwardness, and simplicity than female socialization does on communication, and I think that's where the idea that "Men are simple," comes from. But it is a deeply complex framework of socialization that powers that verbal directness and simplicity, and there are generally a lot of exceptions and nuances to even that, with every individual. I think men are trained (whether they are inherently good at it or not) to be less interested in nuance than women, in most cases, by the framework of socialization. They are also trained to multitask less. They are essentially expected to be more straightforward whereas women have been socialized for years not to just come out and say what they want. But exceptions abound, especially now! Anyway, if the generalized male is ever 'simple,' I think it's only because he has very complex reasons for being so.
somedude81 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Men aren't simple. It's just that women are extremely complex and their hormones make things even more complicated.
TheBigQuestion Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Men aren't simple. It's just that women are extremely complex and their hormones make things even more complicated. As a gender, no, they aren't "extremely complex." That's a self-limiting belief you're holding onto right there.
somedude81 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 As a gender, no, they aren't "extremely complex." That's a self-limiting belief you're holding onto right there. How is me thinking that women are extremely complex a self-limiting belief? If I said that men are very simple, then I'd agree with you. But I didn't say anything like that.
TheBigQuestion Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 How is me thinking that women are extremely complex a self-limiting belief? If I said that men are very simple, then I'd agree with you. But I didn't say anything like that. Because that belief will likely reaffirm whatever troubles with women you have.
Lonely Ronin Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 What if there are multiple cute girls, and they're all nice to you?? Then what? I pick the one I like the most.... How is me thinking that women are extremely complex a self-limiting belief? It's like a young person saying math is hard, it's a justification of why they aren't good at it. IME things in life are as simple/complex as you want them to be.
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 20, 2012 Author Posted February 20, 2012 Bolded. I'm 40yrs old and divorced. I'd rather spend 5 mins. flogging the dolphin to porn every day then spend the rest of the day doing what I want to do then spend my time with a woman who doesn't want to sex me daily or almost daily. Most men rather jerk off to porn in this day and age. They don't want to get to know or deal with a real woman. So they rather escape to porn then deal with life. That's no big shock. I think by all the differeing responses to this thread alone shows that men and women are both complex in their own ways.
phineas Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Most men rather jerk off to porn in this day and age. They don't want to get to know or deal with a real woman. So they rather escape to porn then deal with life. That's no big shock. I think by all the differeing responses to this thread alone shows that men and women are both complex in their own ways. I was watching porn when I made this post.
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 20, 2012 Author Posted February 20, 2012 It doesn't surprise me. Today, that's what many men care about.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Most men rather jerk off to porn in this day and age. They don't want to get to know or deal with a real woman. So they rather escape to porn then deal with life. That's no big shock. Well, that sounds simple enough! 1
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 Most men rather jerk off to porn in this day and age. They don't want to get to know or deal with a real woman. So they rather escape to porn then deal with life. That's no big shock. I think by all the differeing responses to this thread alone shows that men and women are both complex in their own ways. I'll be pretty honest, I've been addicted to Murray Rothbard lectures and speeches on Youtube recently. I don't jerk off to them obviously (that would be really weird ), but I do often spend hours just listening and trying to soak in knowledge. And yeah I'd rather do this than interact with a woman. That's about as close to "porn" as it gets for me I guess.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 So, was this thread just a rouse to get another chance to talk about how most men want to jerk off to porn all day? Tricky! 3
ptp Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) Most men rather jerk off to porn in this day and age. They don't want to get to know or deal with a real woman. Can you really blame us? Women in porn are hawt, do things that regular women won't. And the best part is after I am done, they go away and don't nag. Why would I want to deal with a real woman? * just kidding * Edited February 20, 2012 by ptp
phineas Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 So, was this thread just a rouse to get another chance to talk about how most men want to jerk off to porn all day? Tricky! not really. saw it a mile away.
thatone Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 All people are simple, and all people are complex, I'd say. Is socialized male psychology, at the societal sense, complex? Equally as complex to female socialization, I'd say, though easily generalized, just as female socialization is. . . that's how socialization goes. Are individual men simple or complex? I'd say this varies, man to man, but generally all people have their areas of complexity. Male socialization suggests that men be less verbally confusing/complex than women (in general) because it places greater value on pith, straightforwardness, and simplicity than female socialization does on communication, and I think that's where the idea that "Men are simple," comes from. But it is a deeply complex framework of socialization that powers that verbal directness and simplicity, and there are generally a lot of exceptions and nuances to even that, with every individual. I think men are trained (whether they are inherently good at it or not) to be less interested in nuance than women, in most cases, by the framework of socialization. They are also trained to multitask less. They are essentially expected to be more straightforward whereas women have been socialized for years not to just come out and say what they want. But exceptions abound, especially now! Anyway, if the generalized male is ever 'simple,' I think it's only because he has very complex reasons for being so. i have often shook my head and laughed, over my 35 years, at exes and female acquaintances that proclaim how independent and evolved and comfortable with equal gender roles are, while at the same time being completely against, scared of, or other negative reaction, to simply saying what they want. fwiw i find it often falls in with religious/family prudish'ness that makes them generally uncomfortable in a relationship with any man, not just me for whatever reason. it's amazing the lengths that insecure women will go to, to convince themselves and whoever is sitting across from them that their insecurity is someone else's fault.
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 Can you really blame us? Women in porn are hawt, do things that regular women won't. And the best part is after I am done, they go away and don't nag. Why would I want to deal with a real woman? * just kidding * Are you just kidding ptp? Because what you said is correct. The women in porn are hot. Regular girls are not a fantasy and will never be as hot as what men get in porn. Women in porn do do things that some regular women won't do. Simply, a lot of what goes on in porn is less about mutual pleasure and more about male pleasure first. Which is why porn girls will do them (they are being paid after) but a real woman won't sometimes. Then men hold it against women when they don't want to act like a pornstar even though men themselves KNOW that what goes on in porn has never been about female pleasure. And yes, the women in porn don't nag because they aren't even real women to the context of his everyday life. Real women are always going to be harder to deal with. The sad thing is that I bet a lot of men do think just this, "why would I want to deal with a real woman" when they can have a computer generated image of a woman for their needs. Causing them not to have to learn to relate to real women, with their own imperfectoins and needs and desires. Real people are complicated. Porn isn't. The sad thing is, that you and other men might consider it a positive not to learn to relate to real women or recongnize women as real people with their own set of needs and imperfections and instead choose to attach a pedestal to your fantasy so that you can use it as a comparison to real women and shame them for it. Such as you did above in your "joke". Although, I suspect there is truth in your joke.
xxoo Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 He said he was kidding! Seriously, were do you find these guys (more than one strange loner) who like porn more than a real woman? I know so many men bending over backwards to keep their wives happy enough to have sex with them. Maybe you need to talk to more married guys? 2
aj22one Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I'll be pretty honest, I've been addicted to Murray Rothbard lectures and speeches on Youtube recently. I don't jerk off to them obviously (that would be really weird ), but I do often spend hours just listening and trying to soak in knowledge. And yeah I'd rather do this than interact with a woman. That's about as close to "porn" as it gets for me I guess. It's ok man. Sometimes I'd rather listen to Murray than hang out with my gf sometimes. haha.
Stellar Wench Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 I sometimes hear both men and women say, "men are simple". But this just hasn't been my own experience. Even this board is a good example of how much more multi-demensional men can be. But I am curious how other people see it. Men, do you consider yourself simple? If so, why? If not, why? Women, do you consider men simple? If so, why? If not, why? I don't consider men simple. I think when we over generalize men like that we give a lot of room for misunderstanding about what men need or who they are. I do think men can be simplier then women sometimes. But I don' think that equates to men being "simple" all around. What do you guys think?You're equating simple with stupid. Men in general aren't stupid, but they also don't have women's convoluted needs. Men want to be loved, desired, fed and sexed regularly. Pretty simple, no?
Stellar Wench Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 So, was this thread just a rouse to get another chance to talk about how most men want to jerk off to porn all day? Tricky!Fished in. I should have known.
phineas Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 You're equating simple with stupid. Men in general aren't stupid, but they also don't have women's convoluted needs. Men want to be loved, desired, fed and sexed regularly. Pretty simple, no? "I've learned early on in our relationship that women are complicated creatures Once i had accepted that it made alot of things easier for me But i have found that because women are complicated they like to think men are complicated too. you ever hear a group of women talking to each other " OOO i wish i knew what he was really thinking" Ladies ill tell you what were really thinking Were really thinking "I'd like a beer and i'd like to see something naked" Thats all were thinking You go to a nursing home and see a 90 year old man going down the hall on a walker Thats what hes thinking "I'd like a beer and I'd like to see something naked" -Jeff Foxworthy
zengirl Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 i have often shook my head and laughed, over my 35 years, at exes and female acquaintances that proclaim how independent and evolved and comfortable with equal gender roles are, while at the same time being completely against, scared of, or other negative reaction, to simply saying what they want. fwiw i find it often falls in with religious/family prudish'ness that makes them generally uncomfortable in a relationship with any man, not just me for whatever reason. it's amazing the lengths that insecure women will go to, to convince themselves and whoever is sitting across from them that their insecurity is someone else's fault. I think there's a difference between the actual socialization most women are 'trained' in (to varying degrees, based on generation) to communicate in a less direct manner and insecurity. Many women would have discomfort communicating in a 'masculine' way (the way men are socialized to communicate, which is more direct, straightforward, and seemingly 'simple') but it does not mean they are 'insecure.' Some probably are (and, frankly, just because the average man is more likely to communicate in a straightforward way does not mean he is less insecure!) but it's really not related. It's just dissonance with socialization. Anytime we do anything we were socialized 'against' or break out of our socialization, we experience dissonance. Now, some people experienced variants of socialization or tweaked their own systems of socialization later in life, so they act out of accordance with what is more typical socialization for their place, age, gender, etc (and yes, cultural and religious factors would matter). That doesn't make the person insecure; the person might be VERY secure with who they are within the framework of what they've been socialized to do and believe. We are ALL a bit insecure outside of the framework of our socialization. Any healthy person would be. Otherwise socialization wouldn't exist. It is meant to keep people in their place. Men aren't 'insecure' for feeling embarrassed if they show too much emotion in public, and women aren't 'insecure' for wanting to speak in a less direct manner. That's basic socialization, even today (though less so than in previous generations). Now, if they ARE insecure, the dissonance from breaching socialization becomes more extreme, sure. Insecurity would compound it. For the record, I can speak plenty directly. But though I was socialized to a degree with female norms, I'm of a much younger generation with more flexible socialization and I was raised to be very direct. It's part of how I was (abnormally) socialized. It was only later I was better trained in doing things behind the scenes or 'hinting' or so forth. Socialization is complex. There are other countries where speaking directly, even for males, is unheard of. I think the value you place on 'speaking your mind' comes directly from your Western male socialization! There is no 'intrinsic' value in any particular communication style. He said he was kidding! Seriously, were do you find these guys (more than one strange loner) who like porn more than a real woman? I know so many men bending over backwards to keep their wives happy enough to have sex with them. Maybe you need to talk to more married guys? I, too, wonder where she finds them. Her idea of what the typical man is does not fit with any of the real life men -- good, bad, or ugly -- I've met in my life.
maybealone Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Men want to be loved, desired, fed and sexed regularly. Pretty simple, no? I am a woman like this, and I have had men call me "low maintenance." "I've learned early on in our relationship that women are complicated creatures Once i had accepted that it made alot of things easier for me But i have found that because women are complicated they like to think men are complicated too. you ever hear a group of women talking to each other " OOO i wish i knew what he was really thinking" Ladies ill tell you what were really thinking Were really thinking "I'd like a beer and i'd like to see something naked" Thats all were thinking You go to a nursing home and see a 90 year old man going down the hall on a walker Thats what hes thinking "I'd like a beer and I'd like to see something naked" -Jeff Foxworthy Ha! So true. And that's another way women try to make men more complicated then they are -- some obsess over every little bump or stretch mark or bit of fat, and worry that no man will ever want to be with their imperfect body. But in my experience men are more like, "Naked woman! Yes!!" and that's about it.
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 You're equating simple with stupid. Men in general aren't stupid, but they also don't have women's convoluted needs. Men want to be loved, desired, fed and sexed regularly. Pretty simple, no? What??? how am I equating "simple" with "stupid"??? There is nothing in that post that infers men are stupid at all. I also think it's interesting that you call it, "women's convoluted needs". Why is a woman's needs automatically "convoluted"?
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 bingo Regardless of everything else... I restate that if a woman wants to understand her guy and have a close relatioinshiop...be his personal slut and take five minutes a day to jerk or suck him off. It gets rid of so much tension and misplaced emotion. After that you can resume whatever other image or persona you want to be. Good wife, independent woman, nuclear physicist or whatever. Just take care of 'that need' and it's the foundation to build everything else upon. My girlfriend likes to cuddle up in bed and watch a movie. She knows, however, that I'll get the urge, start wiggling around and touching her everywhere. So, she'll do me quick before the movie starts and then I can settle down and actually watch it with her. She has men figured out. You make it sound like your sex life is just about your needs getting taken care of in the most expeditious way possible. It doesn't sound like fun to me.
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