jlola Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 I believe most adults do not understand the stages of love relationships which is sad and the reason we see so much divorce and affairs. I also believe those stages should be taught in school. many in affairs would be wise to look up stages of relationships and realize they are at Stage 1 in the affair. INFATUATION. While the marriage has passed that stage and may be at Stage 3-4 which is conflict and reality. Love songs,movies and plays all deal with longing sort of love and heartache. Songs are npt made about the sort of love during marriage. I believe many married people in affairs are addicted to the highs stage 1. And because affairs are basically built on secrets,longings and stolen moments the "romance part is high and stage 1 can last much longer than the 3 year limit. Here are some good quotes on love,romance and reality. love_that_we_can_not_have_is_the_one_that_lasts longest, hurts the deepest and feels the strongest. romantic_love_is_mental_illness-but_it-s a pleasurable one. It's a drug. It distorts reality and that's the point of it. "love prefers twilight to daylight." " romantic_love_is_an_illusion-most_of_us_discover this truth at the end of the love affair or else when the sweet emotions of love leads us to marriage." good article: Why A Love Affair Is So Intoxicating? By Cathy Meyer, About.com Guide I have a friend whose husband is cheating on her. This friend is hyper focused on the other woman’s looks. She doesn’t understand why her husband chose someone she feels is unattractive over her, someone who is slim and pretty. My friend is missing the point of the affair altogether. Most men and women who cheat don’t do so because they like the looks of the other person. They do so because they enjoy the feelings they get from interactions with the other person. Fascination and infatuation is at the root of most love affairs. To understand why the affair is so intoxicating you need to understand the differences between married love and infatuation. Married Love: Married love begins with infatuation or romantic love and moves into committed love that ebbs and flows based on life and the personalities of each spouse. For romantic love to turn into committed love each spouse must have some or all of the character traits below. An understanding of what commitment means, Sensitivity to the feelings of others, A generous heart, will to give to your spouse when it means doing without yourself, The ability to take into consideration the needs of their spouse, A willingness to be honest, dependable and trustworthy, Most of all they are resilient, accepting and forgiving. When we marry the romantic love that led us to the decision to marry falls prey to daily stressors that either promote committed love or reveal that it was nothing but infatuation that can’t survive the reality of daily life. Most marriages move from infatuation to a more balanced, reality based committed love. That can’t be said for love affairs. Infatuation: “To inspire with a foolish or extravagant love or admiration” is the definition of infatuated. It is easy to mistake infatuation for committed love but it is only an attraction to another person based on who you need that person to be in your life. A love affair is about that initial “in love” feeling, that point in a relationship when someone is blinded to the other person’s flaws. By its very nature a love affair prolongs those feelings of infatuation. People engaged in an affair spend little “real” time together. Most of their time together is spent in a fantasy world free of the stressors that daily life introduces into love relationships. It is easy to maintain illusions and romanticize a relationship if that relationship is based on secret, fleeting meetings with little time for real life to intrude. The other man or woman is an object of desire, they are wanted based on the fact that they fulfill someone’s need to feel “in love” and not based on who they actually are. Think of the infatuation that comes along with a love affair the same way you would if your spouse had “one too many beers.” There is a sense of intoxication that comes along with a love affair that keeps those involved from thinking rationally. Love affairs are as addictive as alcohol or drugs due to the good feelings they illicit in the cheater. That “in love” feeling gives the cheater a sort of chemical high. He/she will continue the affair until the relationship is exposed to the realities of day to day life. Below are a few characteristics of affair love. They feel as if they can’t live without each other in spite of the fact they live the majority of their life away from each other. A fear they will fall apart emotionally if they have to remove themselves from the affair. Deep feelings of anxiety, worry or jealousy of the affair partner. A need for the affair partner to meet all their expectations. The belief that the affair partner will change themselves to meet the other person’s needs. A need for the affair partner to be accessible at all times, regardless of the fact that they are able rarely see each other. A deep dependence on the affair partner to “make” them feel loved. An inability to find comfort when they are not with the affair partner. Basically the difference between married love and affair love is…married love is unconditional, you accept your spouse for who they are, warts and all. Affair love is conditional; it cannot survive the realities of day-to-day life. Affair love is steeped in fears of loss whereas, married love is associated with the comfort of knowing you are loved and accepted as you are. The reasonable person wonders how someone can become addicted to or intoxicated by a situation that causes so much stress and anxiety. I suppose that feeling of infatuation outweighs those feelings of stress and anxiety over the love affair. The emotional rush one experiences from the affair makes real life marital love seem like a let-down. So, they return as often as possible for that short-term hormonal feeling of infatuation. 5
frozensprouts Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 it's too bad that kids aren't taught more about the emotions that go along with marriage and sex. It's like they get taught about how the parts work and how to use them, but not about what it can all mean. 2
2long Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Excellent post! where's the "like" button? -ol' 2long
Author jlola Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 Kids are taught by movies and books about romance and longing. They are taught a soulmate will keep you happy forever. If you just find the right person, life will be easy and happy. So in marriage there are a lot of unrealistic expectations on the spouse to be their everything. I always find it amusing the people in affairs will say how they are not getting their needs met a home and that is why they have affairs. I have yet met to the partner having the affair and not seen they were the selfish ones, The takers. And believe me, in my culture affairs are prevalent. so I see plenty. I gather the "takers" would think spouse is responsible for all their needs and happiness. I always wonder if I were to ask the person in the affair if they thought they were meeting all of their partners needs(which is impossible for one person to do) what they would say. I would say the BS gets neglected,disrespected,unappreciated and more. They certainly are not getting their needs me. yet they handle that situation with self respect. It takes maturity to be in a marriage. One of my sisters has a great marriage to an amazing man. Her husband once came up to me laughing and said "Your sister said if I ever had an affair she would get herself a condo and leave me and the OW with all three kids". He thought it was hystetical and said "hell, no" I would never do that. I spoke with her later and asked her why she would let her kids go if she found out there was another woman. She said. "IF he ever had an affair, how long do you think it would take for a woman who is stupid enough to hook up with a man with 3 kids to get a reality check when she now has to take care of them". That would cut the romance dead in no time. Smart girl. 2
frozensprouts Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Excellent post! where's the "like" button? -ol' 2long her post is really good...the like button is at the bottom of the post...I "liked" it already
2long Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 her post is really good...the like button is at the bottom of the post...I "liked" it already 2funny! I hadn't noticed that before. On other forums, people ask for like buttons all the time, like on facebook. I had no idea it could be added to a discussion forum. Is it recent? -ol' 2long
2long Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 Along the subject line, I posted some of my favorite Frank Pittman quotes on my blog thread at marriage advocates: People who think they can't endure life unless they are "in love" are dangerous. After thirty-seven years in the trenches of family therapy and thirty-seven years in a totally committed, totally realistic marriage, I have come to see "romantic love" as an absurd, albeit delicious, crisis-induced escape from sanity, a narcissistic intoxication with no relationship to loving Despite it all, if one is unpartnered and alone, romantic love can be a resolution to loneliness as magically ecstatic and lifesaving as Robinson Crusoe's spotting of the footsteps in the sand. While it will not last, the fact that it was once there and that memories of it can be conjured up from time to time makes a resultant marriage feel special and right. Of course misery (and/or an extensive sexual and romantic supporting cast) can result if the partners are so foolish as to require continuation of their romantic high for a lifetime. John Gottman finds in What Predicts Divorce that long-term marital satisfaction comes from factors such as companionship and friendship, and the ability to provide support, validation, and understanding, rather than passion and in-loveness. It seems to me dangerous for people to stake their happiness in life on romantic love. They are ecstatic when they experience that most engulfing flight from reality, but miserable when they don't. Romance can pull you out of a funk, but it has far more side effects than Prozac. -ol' 2long 1
2long Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 More from Pittman: Marriage is not about being in love. It is about the agreement to love one another. Love is an active, transitive verb. It is something married grown-ups do no matter how they feel. It is nice when married people are in love with each other, but if they are loving enough to each other, that magic may catch fire again. -ol' 2long
2long Posted February 17, 2012 Posted February 17, 2012 I really do believe that the notion that romantic love is the most important part of marriage is foolish and a setup for major disappointment even2ally. Romance is what allows most people in committed relationships 2 have affairs. There's no difference between romantic love between spouses and that between affairees - either way it's nothing more lofty than a chemical high. But at least when its between spouses it's not unethical, whereas between affairees it is. There are some basic, often "inconvenient" truths that we all must accept about being human on this planet - or at least in this country: *infidelity is not illegal (mainly because most people are idiots and rank "romantic love" so high that they often congra2late friends and family for "pursuing happiness" any way they can, regardless of who it hurts). *We all have certain unalienable rights. One of the benefits of being human, is that we have the right 2 make our own choices in life. If our ultimate goal is 2 be enlightened, or even just remembered fondly after we're gone, obviously making a choice that hurts those we profess 2 love, like having an affair, isn't particularly expedient, but it is still our right 2 make stupid choices as well as smart ones. Hopefully, those who do choose to have affairs learn something useful from the experience after all the fallout has settled. -ol' 2long 2
Author jlola Posted February 17, 2012 Author Posted February 17, 2012 Lots of smart and informed folks here:) Thank you for the likes. More people should be informed of these stages. But everyone thinks they are so special and their love is different. They think the stages do not apply to them. Their love high will last forever. Affairs are like grandparents with grandkids:) Because the grandparents spend limited time with grandchildren, try to make the time they have fun. They do not have expectations parents do because the grandparents do not have to deal with consequences parents have to. So the relationship is real, but in a way superficial. The child gets the best side of the grandparents and the grandparents get the best side of the child. How many parents have looked on in amazement at how their parents who were strict,cheap and unaffectionate are now completely different with grandchild. Spoiling them and now chastising parent for being too strict..As a friend says. it is easy to look great doing a short sprint. It's the marathon that is hard. I have never been married. But I hope if I do find someone I want to share my life with he is mature enough to understand what real love is and not infatuation. I hope he understands the stages of a relationship and does not expect me to "make him happy". But the more I see in real life and read these boards, I am realizing it is a minority that lives in reality. many people are addicted to the romantic part of the relationship and refuse to understand it cannot be sustained. I believe when two people are involved in affairs usually they have unrealistic views of love. Therefore they expect the high the affair brings will last forever. It may, IF they never get together. Longing and never attaining a real relationship often times does that. But as they say "CONSUMATION" will always decrease romantic love. So as long as you dont get what you want, you will always long for it.Sad. 3
SoMovinOn Posted February 18, 2012 Posted February 18, 2012 Songs are not made about the sort of love during marriage. Eric Clapton - Wonderful Tonight
East7 Posted February 19, 2012 Posted February 19, 2012 I have never been married. But I hope if I do find someone I want to share my life with he is mature enough to understand what real love is and not infatuation. I hope he understands the stages of a relationship and does not expect me to "make him happy". But the more I see in real life and read these boards, I am realizing it is a minority that lives in reality. many people are addicted to the romantic part of the relationship and refuse to understand it cannot be sustained. I believe when two people are involved in affairs usually they have unrealistic views of love. Therefore they expect the high the affair brings will last forever. It may, IF they never get together. Longing and never attaining a real relationship often times does that. But as they say "CONSUMATION" will always decrease romantic love. So as long as you dont get what you want, you will always long for it.Sad. Hi jLola, My impressions is that you want to vent for not believing anymore in real longlasting love. It sounds like you have given up on the idea of romantic love I wouldn't qualify ALL affairs not being real love. If the affair partners were to be single and free to date they would click together anyway. This is a question that I have been revisiting in my thoughts a lot of times : How would it be if xMW was single and we were two single people falling for each-other..? Well I honestly don't think it would be very different. The reasons that got us together at first place were not related to sex or affair thrill. We were first friends and were gradually attracted to each-other. Two people can have connection and chemistry regardless to the fact that both or one of them can be committed to someone else. The A is a boundary thing. When you chose to pursue those feelings than it becomes an A. Just because the interaction between 2 people becomes an A doesn't mean that the feelings are unreal and superficial. It becomes an A because both AP chose to ignore the boundaries and satisfy their feelings for each-other. Where I agree with you is that the two AP always end up with what-ifs because they never experienced the "consumption" stage.
Author jlola Posted February 19, 2012 Author Posted February 19, 2012 Hi East:) No, you are mistaken. I do believe in love. But I realize now through investigating and doing a lot of reading EVERY relationship goes through sages. Stage 1(Infatuation stage) is when mist marriages occur. But it is chemical high just like cocaine in your system. Your body produces it. But it can only be sustained for up to 3 years. then it sort of mellows out. That is why so many divorce after 4 years or 7 if kids are in picture. Read the "Science of love" or stages of relationships. Most people start having affairs at Stage 3. Where reality sets in. I believe in real love. But I believe it is realistic and ebbs and flows. There will be times you do not feel "in love" with your spouse. But those times are not the times to bail and give attention to someone else. Otherwise if one chooses to divert attention during that stage. It only destroys the marriage even more. Hollywood has given us all a view of love that is not realistic. Had Romeo and Juliet lived, they would probably have gone through all the stages also. But alas they only had the infatuation stage. By pining for each other and not having full consummation they drove themselves into drama and suicide.. Read on "Romance addiction" or Limerence. Then I look back at the most passionate relationships I have had, I realize they were incomplete. They left me pinning and wanting and that I mistook for love. They had me filling in the blanks in my head of how wonderful life would be with them because they were more fantasy to me than real relationships where we saw each other all the times,finances or real life was shared, our families intertwined. They were elusive, They offered hope and doubt. Which is exactly what most affairs offer. Hope and doubt keep the passion going at a very high rate. We want what we cannot have, but want it even more if it is soooooo close. It plays mind games with us and unless we begin to question why, we accept the fact this anxiety,longing,connection must mean true love. Gotta run now. hve a great day! 1
2long Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 I think this is from an old post of mine here at loveshack, but I found it stored on one of my hard drives. Anyway, sorry if you've seen it before: I've used this quote from M. Scott Peck's book "The Road Less Traveled" a number of times, but I think it applies here. M Scott Peck: "Of all the misconceptions about love the most powerful and pervasive is the belief that "falling in love" is love or at least one of the manifestations of love. It is a potent misconception, because falling in love is subjectively experienced in a very powerful fashion as an experience of love. Falling in love is not an act of will. It is not a conscious choice. No matter how open to or eager for it we may be, the experience may still elude us. Contrarily, the experience may capture us at times when we are definitely not seeking it, when it is inconvenient and undesirable. We are as likely to fall in love with someone with whom we are obviously ill matched as with someone more suitable. Indeed, we may not even like or admire the object of our passion, yet, try as we might, we may not be able to fall in love with a person whom we deeply respect and with whom a deep relationship would be in all ways desirable. This is not to say that the experience of falling in love is immune to discipline. Psychiatrists, for instance, frequently fall in love with their patients, just as their patients fall in love with them, yet out of duty to the patient and their role they are usually able to abort the collapse of their ego boundaries and give up the person as a romantic object. The struggle and suffering of the discipline involved may be enormous. But discipline and will can only control the experience; they cannot create it. We can choose how to respond to the experience of falling of love, but we cannot choose the experience itself. Love is not a feeling. Many, many people possessing a feeling of love and even acting in response to that feeling act in all manner of unloving and destructive ways. It is not only possible but necessary for a loving person to avoid acting on feelings of love. I may meet a woman who strongly attracts me, whom I feel like loving, but because it would be destructive to my marriage to have an affair, I will say vocally or in the silence of my heart, "I feel like loving you, but I am not going to". My feelings of love may be unbounded, but my capacity to be loving is limited. I therefore must choose the person on whom to focus my capacity to love, toward whom to direct my will to love. True love is not a feeling by which we are overwhelmed. It is a committed, thoughtful decision. Genuine love implies commitment and the exercise of wisdom. When we are concerned for someone's spiritual growth, we know that a lack of commitment is likely to be harmful and that commitment to that person is probably necessary for us to manifest our concern effectively. Genuine love is volitional rather than emotional. The person who truly loves does so because of a decision to love. This person has made a commitment to be loving whether or not the loving feeling is present. If it is, so much the better; but if it isn't, the commitment to love, the will to love, still stands and is still exercised. The common tendency to confuse love with feelings of love allows people all manner of self-deception. It is clear that there may be a self-serving quality in this tendency to confuse love with the feeling of love; it is easy and not at all unpleasant to find evidence of love in one's feelings. It may be difficult and painful to search for evidence of love in one's actions. But because true love is an act of will that often transcends ephemeral feelings of love, it is correct to say, "Love is as love does"." In view of this, it's easier 2 understand the oft-heard statement from a wayward: "I love you but I'm not in love with you." They're ac2ally telling a truth that's deeper than they realize (or even are, in that state of mind). They're describing the deeper "love as a choice" they might still hold for their spouse, because of their his2ry 2gether, or their family, or the "needs" their spouse can meet but the AP can't. They could just as truthfully say 2 the AP: "I'm in love with you but I don't love you." But, though equally accurate, that would kind of spoil the moment, rather than invigorate it. -ol' 2long 2
donnamaybe Posted February 20, 2012 Posted February 20, 2012 OP, my "like" buttons don't work on my droid, but if they did i would like this thread. Great topic, and you nailed it! Great offerings by other posters as well!
Author jlola Posted February 20, 2012 Author Posted February 20, 2012 (edited) 2 long, Great quote from M. Scott Peck. I find it refreshing to see many are now reading about how love stages work instead of thinking the romance stage is it and their relationship is so special,for them it will last forever. But they do not understand how chemicals in your body work against that dream. read once "unrealistic expectations" of marriage and relationships is why so many are failing or just plain unhappy. taking your Que from movies, songs and novels rather than looking into the psychology and science of it can be very foolish. What Is Chemistry in Love Relationships? Love and Chemistry Love is in our mind and is fueled by chemicals and chemistry. New lovers produce the chemistry in love we all seek. Throughout history, mankind has deemed the heart the center of love. But scientists tell us love is all in our mind or brain. And fueled by chemicals and chemistry. Infatuation When two people are attracted to each other, a virtual explosion of adrenaline-like nuerochemicals gush forth. Fireworks explode and we see stars. PEA or phenylethylamine is a chemical that speeds up the flow of information between nerve cells. Also, involved in chemistry are dopamine and norepinephrine, chemical cousins of amphetamines. Dopamine makes us feel good and norepinephrine stimulates the production of adrenaline. It makes our heart race! These three chemicals combine to give us infatuation or "chemistry." It is why new lovers feel euphoric and energized, and float on air. It is also why new lovers can make love for hours and talk all night for weeks on end. This is the chemistry or the love sparks we all seek. Actually when we have chemistry with someone, it's not exactly flattering. In fact, some might call it insulting. Why? According to Harville Hendrix our brain dumps PEA when we identify someone who can: 1. Finish our childhood business. 2. Give us back what we lost to the socialization process of growing up. Singles search for love armed with a list of qualities desired in a mate/lover, such as honesty, fidelity, loyalty, sense of humor, intelligence, warmth, etc. Yet when that person appears they say, He/she is a really nice person, but nothing clicked, just no "chemistry." Unfortunately, we hear that click when we recognize our original parent/child situation. That's when our brain really gets those phenylethylamines and other chemicals moving. Some people become veritable love junkies. They need chemistry or this chemical excitement to feel happy about and intoxicated by life. Once this initial rush of chemicals wanes (inevitable after six months to three years, depending on the individual and the circumstances), their relationship crumbles. They're soon off again, detectives seeking a quick fix to their forlorn feelings: another chemical high from infatuation. These love junkies also have one other problem. The body builds up a tolerance to these chemicals. Then it takes more and more chemistry to bring that special feeling of love. They crave the intoxication of chemistry and infatuation. Many adults go through life in a series of six-month to three-year relationships. If these love junkies stay married, they are likely to seek affairs to fuel their chemical highs. Edited February 20, 2012 by jlola
Spark1111 Posted February 21, 2012 Posted February 21, 2012 Great thread! Drama also fuels those chemicals, as does being unable to consummate, as does being forbidden to see each other whenever you want. The second stage of love is disillusionment. The rose colored glasses come off, the limerance fades, the bills need to be payed, we begin to experience conflict and power struggles. We now can have sex whenever we want, so we want it less, or we're tired by raising kids, working, cooking, yard work. Most marriages end in the second stage. Lack of productive communication, complacency, putting less effort into the marital relationship ensues. Resentments build, recurring conflicts are avoided. A lack of respect occurs. The third stage is mature love. You weathered the disillusionment, you've improved your communication, you spend more time together; you cherish and accept each other for who you are. And in his day and age, I think you are lucky if both you and your spouse are mature enough to get there. 1
Author jlola Posted February 21, 2012 Author Posted February 21, 2012 Unfortunately, I think most people having affairs have no idea relationships go through stages and you have to commit in order to grow. They think infatuation is over so I chose the wrong spouse. But now that I'm having an affair, I realize this is the person I was meant to be with. So goes the cycle of the romance addict. They have no idea nothing in life stays constant. No even love. Unfortunately, AP always thinks their love is so special and life will be different for the two of them,because they are exactly what WS needs. They just met at the wrong time. They soon will learn the reality of life. 2
Betrayed&Stayed Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 The second stage of love is disillusionment. The rose colored glasses come off, the limerance fades, the bills need to be payed, we begin to experience conflict and power struggles. We now can have sex whenever we want, so we want it less, or we're tired by raising kids, working, cooking, yard work. Most marriages end in the second stage. Lack of productive communication, complacency, putting less effort into the marital relationship ensues. Resentments build, recurring conflicts are avoided. A lack of respect occurs. Bingo! This played a major role in what was the perfect storm for my wife's affair. She started her affair right after our second anniversary. The newness had worn off. This article outlines 5 stages of marriage: Passages of Marriage: Five Growth Stages | Marriage Missions International It refers to the second stage as "realistic love"
frozensprouts Posted February 23, 2012 Posted February 23, 2012 Funny thing is that a marriage that survives an affair can be much stronger than it was before the affair. But it takes a huge amount of work on the part of both spouses, and some people just don't feel they can do that, or that they will ever be able to trust their spouse or look at them the same way again.
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