Discussing the future...

[Saxis]

I've been seeing this crop up in a few threads lately, and it prompted me to ask my GF about her plans for the future. We recently breached the "L" word in our relationship, and upon realizing how serious we were getting very quickly amidst her upcoming divorce and issues with the X, she nearly took a step back to determine if she could/should really be in this relationship right now. We actually did for a few days, before she decided that she really didn't want to take the chance on losing what we have. We are however, slowing down a little and keeping our kids out of it until things with the X settle down.

 

Basically, I asked her "Where do you see yourself in 2 years? In 5 years? What things/goals do you want to accomplish in that time frame?". She really had no idea! I guess I assumed that she had thought about it, since part of our discussion about "taking a break" was determining how serious we are about each other, if we could see ourselves living together, being part of each others' kid's lives, etc... She explained to me the plans she had with her STBXH (mostly his plans). His mom had bought them some property with a dumpy house, which he was going to gut and fix up as a temporary home while they built a new one. But those plans were always on hold, as he was too busy blowing money on drugs and cheating on her. Obviously she is done with that, and those plans have gone out the window for her, although he is now starting to move forward with them by himself. I could tell it bugged her a little... I think with her now struggling as a single parent, she's mostly just worried about making it and hasn't had time to construct new plans for their future. Definitely understandable, and she mentioned a couple things (owning a house, possibly going back to school), but noted that those things would probably never happen in her current situation.

 

I was at least hoping for something like "I would like to travel to places X, Y and Z with my son within the next 5 years.", but OK, I get it. She probably won't even be able to plan for things like that, at least financially, by herself. Other than that, it's definitely too soon to put much stake in our relationship as far as planning to move in together, deciding where we'd live and merging our families together. She did say that thinking and talking about it freaks her out a little, and she asked about my plans also. This is basically what I told her...

 

You kind of already know about the things I want to accomplish and places I'd like to go, but as far as making any actual plans, that depends... It's hard NOT to think about a future with you and your son.

I kind of left it at that. I have already mentioned to her many of the things I want to do in the next few years, and she thought they sounded pretty exciting and something she could enjoy also, but these things are mostly recreational. It's not like I'm making plans right now for us to live together, get married or anything like that. I've already wasted a couple years with someone I wasn't really in love with, where our "future plans" didn't even come close to matching. I just want to make sure we are on the same page before we possibly waste months or years of each others' lives, while trying not to freak her out of the relationship.

 

Sooo, here are my questions for you.

 

Since these are generally dealbreakers, how soon into a relationship do you discuss/determine what each other wants as far as future living situations, marriage, kids etc., if at all?

 

If a date/partner brings up future plans of any kind, do you get freaked out? Enough to step back and re-evaluate the relationship?

 

Any bad/good experiences to share from having a discussion like this?

 

[Pasttense]

I think you should tell us more about the relationship. The specific thing I noticed is you didn't even tell us how long you have been seeing each other.

[Saxis]

I think you should tell us more about the relationship. The specific thing I noticed is you didn't even tell us how long you have been seeing each other.

 

Irrelevant, since I wasn't really asking for advice about my specific relationship, but I'll oblige...

 

We've been seeing each other for about 3 months, exclusive for over 2. Things happened very fast. The issue with her X is that he has been desperate to get her back, bugging the hell out of her, and he even broke into her house and tried to kill me one night. She decided to take a step back when she realized that she was in love with me. It scared the hell out of her, she had no idea if I felt the same way, she was afraid of being hurt and she left me hanging for a week wondering what the heck was going on. When she finally did tell me what was going on, she confessed the "L" word, so did I, and there was much talk about a long term relationship, but with many worries about how we would work through issues with the X, kids and such. We never really went into detail about that, as obviously it is way too soon. Just that we knew what we were getting into and would have to deal with. Now that things are back on track and we are more serious, I felt that I should have an idea of what her expectations are for herself and a long term partner. She clearly hasn't had time to re-evaluate what she wants since her failed marriage, but it seems she is more of a "let the man lead" type. I just wanted her to know that it's important to me to know what she wants also, so we would be able to work on it together.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Saxis

[Almond_Joy]

I've been seeing this crop up in a few threads lately, and it prompted me to ask my GF about her plans for the future. We recently breached the "L" word in our relationship, and upon realizing how serious we were getting very quickly amidst her upcoming divorce and issues with the X, she nearly took a step back to determine if she could/should really be in this relationship right now. We actually did for a few days, before she decided that she really didn't want to take the chance on losing what we have. We are however, slowing down a little and keeping our kids out of it until things with the X settle down.

 

Basically, I asked her "Where do you see yourself in 2 years? In 5 years? What things/goals do you want to accomplish in that time frame?". She really had no idea! I guess I assumed that she had thought about it, since part of our discussion about "taking a break" was determining how serious we are about each other, if we could see ourselves living together, being part of each others' kid's lives, etc... She explained to me the plans she had with her STBXH (mostly his plans). His mom had bought them some property with a dumpy house, which he was going to gut and fix up as a temporary home while they built a new one. But those plans were always on hold, as he was too busy blowing money on drugs and cheating on her. Obviously she is done with that, and those plans have gone out the window for her, although he is now starting to move forward with them by himself. I could tell it bugged her a little... I think with her now struggling as a single parent, she's mostly just worried about making it and hasn't had time to construct new plans for their future. Definitely understandable, and she mentioned a couple things (owning a house, possibly going back to school), but noted that those things would probably never happen in her current situation.

 

I was at least hoping for something like "I would like to travel to places X, Y and Z with my son within the next 5 years.", but OK, I get it. She probably won't even be able to plan for things like that, at least financially, by herself. Other than that, it's definitely too soon to put much stake in our relationship as far as planning to move in together, deciding where we'd live and merging our families together. She did say that thinking and talking about it freaks her out a little, and she asked about my plans also. This is basically what I told her...

 

I kind of left it at that. I have already mentioned to her many of the things I want to do in the next few years, and she thought they sounded pretty exciting and something she could enjoy also, but these things are mostly recreational. It's not like I'm making plans right now for us to live together, get married or anything like that. I've already wasted a couple years with someone I wasn't really in love with, where our "future plans" didn't even come close to matching. I just want to make sure we are on the same page before we possibly waste months or years of each others' lives, while trying not to freak her out of the relationship.

 

Sooo, here are my questions for you.

 

Since these are generally dealbreakers, how soon into a relationship do you discuss/determine what each other wants as far as future living situations, marriage, kids etc., if at all?

 

If a date/partner brings up future plans of any kind, do you get freaked out? Enough to step back and re-evaluate the relationship?

 

Any bad/good experiences to share from having a discussion like this?

 

 

The longest I've gone without talking about the future is about a year. I try to ask those kinds of questions as soon as possible - I'm a planner, I default to future thinking, and it makes me anxious when I can't factor in a significant other.

 

 

I think 3 months is a good window of time to wait before posing "future" questions - the honeymoon phase is on the decline if not totally over by then lol.

[spiderowl]

Since these are generally dealbreakers, how soon into a relationship do you discuss/determine what each other wants as far as future living situations, marriage, kids etc., if at all?

 

It's not something one would want to leave for more than a year, I would have thought, but you are dealing with someone who is going through a divorce. She's still mentally attached in some ways to her ex and the plans they once had. This is a natural stage full of confusion, hurt and disappointment as one realises that the dreams that once were will never be. Once she has accepted all this deep down, she will be ready to move on. You can either wait until that point or not. She's probably not able to think ahead but is surviving at the moment. I've no doubt she appreciates the comfort you bring to her. I doubt she'll be in a place to think ahead until all this stuff is out of her head and fully accepted as over. Only she will know when that is.

 

It's hard for you because you are far ahead of her now. If you put pressure on her, she may back out altogether. On the other hand, her reluctance to say anything that includes you in her future shows her uncertainty. It may only be due to the emotional stage she's at or may signify that although she thinks a lot of you, you are not the one. It's really hard to tell and I don't envy you. Maybe if you pull back a little and let her have more time and space to miss you, she will be able to work through this better and take more positive steps with you. Maybe not.

 

If a date/partner brings up future plans of any kind, do you get freaked out? Enough to step back and re-evaluate the relationship?

 

If I was just out of a relationship and facing divorce and the kind, supportive guy I'd been seeing started to press me on the issue of where he stood, I'd panic and back out. I would know I was not in the right frame of mind to make such important decisions. If I said yes, because I cared for him and because he'd been sweet to me, I might just be using him for emotional support. I would want to be absolutely sure in my mind what my motives were before committing myself to anyone, for his sake.

 

Any bad/good experiences to share from having a discussion like this?

 

In her circumstances, I have felt pressured and felt it was too soon. Looking back, it wasn't too soon for the guy but we weren't in the same place, it was as simple as that.

 

I think backing off a bit and letting her realise that you are not going to pressure her and might even not be part of her life in future, would help her to find out how much you meant to her. It's a risky strategy though and she probably needs a good friend at this point. Could you cope with that for much longer though?

[Saxis]

The longest I've gone without talking about the future is about a year. I try to ask those kinds of questions as soon as possible - I'm a planner, I default to future thinking, and it makes me anxious when I can't factor in a significant other.

 

A year is about where I realized that my previous relationship may not work out. The relationship was good, but I just wasn't completely into it and we wanted different things regarding marriage and children. I hung on for a while thinking my mind might change, but it never did. My biggest regret is letting it go on for too long after I knew I couldn't give her what she wanted. I didn't want to do that again...

 

I think 3 months is a good window of time to wait before posing "future" questions - the honeymoon phase is on the decline if not totally over by then lol.

 

It's funny... It's been a very fast 3 months, yet we feel like we've known each other much longer. Neither of us has ever jumped into anything so quickly, but it is just so comfortable and unexpected and the honeymoon phase is FAR from over!

[chelsea2011]

Interesting question. I talk about travel because I moved a lot as a child, so it's part of who I am. If someone got freaked out because I talked about traveling to them then they don't know me very well. I've learned recently that you can't talk about it with everyone though...so I won't. When I'm in a place (hopefully soon), due to my own efforts, I'm going to travel. If I happen to be in a relationship with someone when that time comes, I will include them if they want to go. But, traveling is definitely on my agenda when I'm able AND it won't interfer with my future planning for retirement. I know how to travel and many great places to go and plan on making it happen. I also know that you don't have to wait until retirement to make it happen either.

 

It kind of boggles me that someone would get freaked out about someone mentioning good travel ideas. However, I get your point and realize that you have to pick and choose who you talk about that stuff with in the context your referring too. As a matter of fact, I think someone getting freaked out in the way you are referring to would be a red flag to me. It would seriously make me wonder.

 

It's a mind set IMHO.

Edited February 16, 2012 by chelsea2011

[Saxis]

It's not something one would want to leave for more than a year, I would have thought, but you are dealing with someone who is going through a divorce. She's still mentally attached in some ways to her ex and the plans they once had. This is a natural stage full of confusion, hurt and disappointment as one realises that the dreams that once were will never be. Once she has accepted all this deep down, she will be ready to move on. You can either wait until that point or not. She's probably not able to think ahead but is surviving at the moment. I've no doubt she appreciates the comfort you bring to her. I doubt she'll be in a place to think ahead until all this stuff is out of her head and fully accepted as over. Only she will know when that is.

 

It's hard for you because you are far ahead of her now. If you put pressure on her, she may back out altogether. On the other hand, her reluctance to say anything that includes you in her future shows her uncertainty. It may only be due to the emotional stage she's at or may signify that although she thinks a lot of you, you are not the one. It's really hard to tell and I don't envy you. Maybe if you pull back a little and let her have more time and space to miss you, she will be able to work through this better and take more positive steps with you. Maybe not.

 

 

 

If I was just out of a relationship and facing divorce and the kind, supportive guy I'd been seeing started to press me on the issue of where he stood, I'd panic and back out. I would know I was not in the right frame of mind to make such important decisions. If I said yes, because I cared for him and because he'd been sweet to me, I might just be using him for emotional support. I would want to be absolutely sure in my mind what my motives were before committing myself to anyone, for his sake.

 

 

 

In her circumstances, I have felt pressured and felt it was too soon. Looking back, it wasn't too soon for the guy but we weren't in the same place, it was as simple as that.

 

I think backing off a bit and letting her realise that you are not going to pressure her and might even not be part of her life in future, would help her to find out how much you meant to her. It's a risky strategy though and she probably needs a good friend at this point. Could you cope with that for much longer though?

 

Thanks spiderowl.

 

Her circumstances and situation with the X would be entirely another story, but they definitely factor in now. With what he put her through, she is definitely done with him, and she assumed, by all the girls he was with during their marriage and after they split, he had moved on also. 6 months later she decided to try dating again, even though it's not final, and went online. That's where I come in. I find out she's technically still married, but it's definitely over. OK, I did that too, so I can't really judge. We start dating, then exclusively. 1 month in, he finds out about me and completely flips his lid, wanting her back all of a sudden. She really had no idea it was coming...

 

I don't think I've pressured her at all though. It was her that brought forward the discussion about living together, our kids and questioning whether that's really something I could see with her. I guess I assumed that was because it's what she eventually wanted, but she never really said it. I had a very lengthy response for her, affirming that I could and she asked if I would be willing to give her time to get things straightened out. I agreed to a break, as long as she didn't cut me out completely. Only a couple days later she decided that she just couldn't do a break from me. A lot of this did stem from her situation with the X, but the rest was her becoming confused about falling for someone this quickly and making sure she wasn't going to get hurt again. I think it definitely helped build more trust between us though.

[Star Gazer]

Irrelevant, since I wasn't really asking for advice about my specific relationship, but I'll oblige...

 

Eh, it kinda is because you kinda were.

 

And circumstances are always relevant to discussions of the future.

 

I wasn't really comfortable talking to my ex about our future plans together until about 6 months in, and that was without any pending divorce or children looming in the background.

 

On the other hand, the circumstances of my current relationship, albeit very new, would allow me to answer the "5 year plan" question with: "Having your second baby. ;)"

 

Context and circumstances really are important when dealing with this sort of thing. There's no one-size-fits-all deal.

[Saxis]

Interesting question. I talk about travel because I moved a lot as a child, so it's part of who I am. If someone got freaked out because I talked about traveling to them then they don't know me very well. I've learned recently that you can't talk about it with everyone though...so I won't. When I'm in a place (hopefully soon), due to my own efforts, I'm going to travel. If I happen to be in a relationship with someone when that time comes, I will include them if they want to go. But, traveling is definitely on my agenda when I'm able AND it won't interfer with my future planning for retirement. I know how to travel and many great places to go and plan on making it happen. I also know that you don't have to wait until retirement to make it happen either.

 

It kind of boggles me that someone would get freaked out about someone mentioning good travel ideas. However, I get your point and realize that you have to pick and choose who you talk about that stuff with in the context your referring too. As a matter of fact, I think someone getting freaked out in the way you are referring to would be a red flag to me. It would seriously make me wonder.

 

It's a mind set IMHO.

 

She got freaked out about things a little more serious than just travel. I just used that as an example because I've divulged some of the places I want to see and things I want to do in the future. I was just concerned that I haven't even heard anything like this from her, let alone her plans for "us". I just don't know if it's because she's been too busy taking care of herself and her son to think about it or what. I was kinda hoping I could instill some thought in her about things she'd eventually like to do for herself and child, We really don't have to be a long ways down the road and married to make plans like that together. Then again, she's deathly afraid of flying, so she probably wouldn't have very far away travel destinations.

 

I think in my excitement about the relationship, I'm now digging a little too deep, too quickly. Pretty sure about that actually... That's why I tried to focus my questions more on the speed and pace which couples share their "hopes and dreams" so to speak.

[johan]

You asked about her long term plans, and not only had she not really thought about it, but what she came up with didn't explicitly involve you.

 

Either she doesn't want another marriage, or she isn't thinking of you as the one she would like to marry. Or whatever kind of long-term arrangement you think you would like to have. Maybe it's too soon to be talking about those things with her. What she's coming out of sounds like a lot.

 

Either way, she's not thinking "we". She's barely thinking "I". I think you have a very uncertain future with her, and you should put your feelings on the shelf.

[Saxis]

Eh, it kinda is because you kinda were.

 

And circumstances are always relevant to discussions of the future.

 

I wasn't really comfortable talking to my ex about our future plans together until about 6 months in, and that was without any pending divorce or children looming in the background.

 

On the other hand, the circumstances of my current relationship, albeit very new, would allow me to answer the "5 year plan" question with: "Having your second baby. ;)"

 

Context and circumstances really are important when dealing with this sort of thing. There's no one-size-fits-all deal.

 

Yep, the circumstances are usually different for everyone, and relationships progress at different speeds for everyone. We've definitely considered that things may have progressed too quickly given the circumstances.

 

You asked about her long term plans, and not only had she not really thought about it, but what she came up with didn't explicitly involve you.

 

Either she doesn't want another marriage, or she isn't thinking of you as the one she would like to marry. Or whatever kind of long-term arrangement you think you would like to have. Maybe it's too soon to be talking about those things with her. What she's coming out of sounds like a lot.

 

Either way, she's not thinking "we". She's barely thinking "I". I think you have a very uncertain future with her, and you should put your feelings on the shelf.

 

Well, this is what I don't understand: She tells me for the first time that she is in love with me, that it has never happened for her this quickly and scares her, then takes a step back, specifically asks me about possibly living together someday, being involved in her son's life more than his father is and even potentially having more children with her. When I divulge that yes, I could potentially see all of those things with her, she basically replies "OK, but could you give me some time to get some things worked out?". I agree. She changes her mind on the break two days later, yet I still have no idea if she's actually looking for those things too. I just assume so, otherwise why would she ask me about them? She did mention something about "Would my son feel left out, as he would have the last name of his father?". It kinda caught me off guard, as she is obviously thinking about marriage right there... I believe she's just really freaked out about the time frame in which she's started to think about these things, and the fact that she still isn't even divorced!

 

Hence, yet again, why my questions were directed at the time frame.

Edited February 16, 2012 by Saxis

[johan]

I don't know. I don't know her. But it sounds like she's kind of all over the place. I wouldn't think she's emotionally or mentally stable enough to be making plans with at this point. It's great that a future with you is on her mind sometimes. But she probably also needs some time to let the dust settle so she can see things clearly. You're way ahead of her in that area.

 

My advice is the same. She's a high risk investment at this point. You need to be emotionally diversified.

[Star Gazer]

I totally agree with Johan.

[Emilia]

She got freaked out about things a little more serious than just travel. I just used that as an example because I've divulged some of the places I want to see and things I want to do in the future. I was just concerned that I haven't even heard anything like this from her, let alone her plans for "us". I just don't know if it's because she's been too busy taking care of herself and her son to think about it or what. I was kinda hoping I could instill some thought in her about things she'd eventually like to do for herself and child, We really don't have to be a long ways down the road and married to make plans like that together. Then again, she's deathly afraid of flying, so she probably wouldn't have very far away travel destinations.

 

I think in my excitement about the relationship, I'm now digging a little too deep, too quickly. Pretty sure about that actually... That's why I tried to focus my questions more on the speed and pace which couples share their "hopes and dreams" so to speak.

 

 

It sounds like you are at a very different stage in your life from her. She has a child already, she was obviously ready to settle down and have a more sedentary life while you still want to explore. This alone tells me the two of you are not a match. I also get the impression your personalities are quite different, perhaps she isn't as brave as you when it comes to living life.

[chelsea2011]

I agree with johan too. She is fickle right now and that is not really a good sign. Normally, when a woman decides to divorce, they mean it. The fact that she is hot and cold could mean something else. I would slow down if I were you and focus on your life until she processes whatever she's got going on out of her system. Guard your heart with this one. I wouldn't mention anything until she is balanced emotionally. If it doesn't balance out, you should reaccess the relationship.

[maybealone]

She clearly hasn't had time to re-evaluate what she wants since her failed marriage, but it seems she is more of a "let the man lead" type.

 

Just based on what you have said here, I'd say that the whole "let the man lead" thing could have been from him, not her. She could have just let him lead because it was easier than dealing with the consequences of having her own opinions. It may not be an issue of re-evaluating, it may be an issue of needing to figure out who the heck she is after that relationship. That could take a long time, so you would need to be able to be patient if this is the case.

 

For a more generic response, I think my timeline would be along the lines of figure out the dealbreakers within a few months, such as finding out one absolutely wants kids (or more kids) and one absolutely doesn't. Six months would be more reasonable for me to figure out future plans, but presumably before then I would know what we had in common. By that I mean knowing that we both like to travel but not necessarily precisely where we want to go, or knowing that we both think saving for retirement is important but not necessarily if we saw ourselves retiring together.

[Saxis]

It sounds like you are at a very different stage in your life from her. She has a child already, she was obviously ready to settle down and have a more sedentary life while you still want to explore. This alone tells me the two of you are not a match. I also get the impression your personalities are quite different, perhaps she isn't as brave as you when it comes to living life.

 

We are not so different. We both have failed marriages with infidelity, each have a kid and we are both very cautious and nervous about getting into another situation like that. Maybe the other way around if anything. I'm settled down, mostly have mine and my daughter's future in order regardless of things working out with another woman in our lives. She knows this, and maybe she was making sure I would be able/willing to make room for her in my life if it went that direction. Hard to say at this point...

 

The things I want to "explore", I can do with just my daughter, or could very easily incorporate someone else. She happened to think they sounded like a lot of fun.

 

I don't know. I don't know her. But it sounds like she's kind of all over the place. I wouldn't think she's emotionally or mentally stable enough to be making plans with at this point. It's great that a future with you is on her mind sometimes. But she probably also needs some time to let the dust settle so she can see things clearly. You're way ahead of her in that area.

 

My advice is the same. She's a high risk investment at this point. You need to be emotionally diversified.

I totally agree with Johan.

 

Yes, it's definitely high risk right now. No plans are being made yet either way. More making sure we are both looking at the same end result and determining if that is worth dealing with the circumstances at hand (the X mostly).

 

I agree with johan too. She is fickle right now and that is not really a good sign. Normally, when a woman decides to divorce, they mean it. The fact that she is hot and cold could mean something else. I would slow down if I were you and focus on your life until she processes whatever she's got going on out of her system. Guard your heart with this one. I wouldn't mention anything until she is balanced emotionally. If it doesn't balance out, you should reaccess the relationship.

 

So far, she only went cold that one time. It's very much back to hot, but we have slowed down a little. If something like this happens again, I will definitely be re-accessing...

 

Just based on what you have said here, I'd say that the whole "let the man lead" thing could have been from him, not her. She could have just let him lead because it was easier than dealing with the consequences of having her own opinions. It may not be an issue of re-evaluating, it may be an issue of needing to figure out who the heck she is after that relationship. That could take a long time, so you would need to be able to be patient if this is the case.

 

For a more generic response, I think my timeline would be along the lines of figure out the dealbreakers within a few months, such as finding out one absolutely wants kids (or more kids) and one absolutely doesn't. Six months would be more reasonable for me to figure out future plans, but presumably before then I would know what we had in common. By that I mean knowing that we both like to travel but not necessarily precisely where we want to go, or knowing that we both think saving for retirement is important but not necessarily if we saw ourselves retiring together.

 

I'm sure it was much easier to let him lead, as he acts like a child (verbally and physically abusive) when he doesn't get what he wants. But she is a strong woman and makes her opinions known, so they were ALWAYS fighting. She completely managed their household while he sat back and got stoned... No doubt that she's still adjusting after that. Right now she's pretty floored that someone even cares about her. She has a few insecurities about that...

 

Thanks for the generic response also!