Sabian Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I'll try and keep this as organized and non rambly as possible. Who's involved? Me: 24 Year Old Male Multiple prior relationships. Two of which were fairly serious. Her: 22 Year Old Female Multiple prior relationships. Two of which were fairly serious as well lol. Last relationship ended May 2011 after 3 years. She had moved across the country to be with him, but moved back home after she dumped him. History/Background. We met in August of 2011 and since then have not gone more than two days without seeing each other, and not more than 12 hours without texting/calling. Our first real date (we had met for coffee the day earlier) was with some mutual friends and instead of talking to the group, we ended up sitting alone together at the bar having amazing conversations. We talked from 10 pm to until the bar closed at 2 AM. I don't think there was ever any silence or awkwardness. We were so comfortable with each other that she ended up spending the night at my apartment where we ended up having sex. The next night she came over to my place to watch a movie since we were both tired from staying up so late the night before. We were a bit less talkative because we were tired, but we still were very comfortable with each other and she fell asleep in my arms for the rest of the night. Like I said. I see her almost every day and we have a lot of fun together. We talk about anything and everything. ....so what's the problem? Why am I posting? WTH is going on? That second night at my place was the last time either of us were at each other's place and it is also kind of the last time we were even intimately alone. After having sex the second time we had ever even seen each other we have not done it again in the 7 months since. No sleepovers, no movie watching cuddled on the couch, no makeout sessions, etc. I ask if she wants to come over to watch a movie or do anything else just the two of us constantly. She almost always has an excuse ready to go. However, I do see and talk to her constantly. I go out with her pretty much every night and we have a lot of fun. Bars, clubs, restaurants, road trips, parks, zoos, etc. What's the catch? She always always always brings at least one other person. 90% of the time this person is her 19 year old sister. Other times it's her friends. So every night I end up in a car with 2-4 girls. One of which I have a massive crush on. And it's not that I don't like the other people, I actually really like them as friends. They just get in the way. When we're all out, the girl I'm interested in tends to pay more attention to her sister and friends than me. She walks next to them instead of me, talks about gossip and inside jokes with them that I don't know, hugs and touches them a lot while pretty much never touching me, and more than once she has walked right past me and sat on the couch next to her friends even though I'm on a Love Seat with an open seat right next to me. Needless to say this kinda starts hurting after awhile. There is one place that I get alone time with her. Every night when it's time to go home we drop everyone off and always save her for last. We almost always sit in her driveway in my car talking and listening to music. Anywhere from 30 minutes to 4 hours with an average of about 90 minutes. Needless to say I love this time. We talk about anything and everything, including pretty private feelings and thoughts. She's talked about the passing of her mom and broken down in tears and then I'd rub her back and she would seem more than fine with it. We also talk about our relationship a lot as well. I have made it very very clear that I want to be with her. From the beginning she has told me that she just isn't ready yet due to the problems with her most recent relationship. However, when I ask if she likes me as more than a friend and if she is attracted to me she always says definitely. An emphatic "Yes.". I have also asked her if she sees us being together in the future when she is ready to be in a relationship again and she again says yes. We're pretty close and very comfortable around each other. We also always hug and kiss when leaving each other. We're as close to being in a relationship as you can get...but for some reason I cannot seem to get her to really show that she cares for me like she says she does. Quick Facts -She almost never initiates physical contact. She has never run up and hugged me, never puts her head on my shoulder, never holds my hand, never cuddles up when she's cold, etc. However, when I initiate a goodnight kiss or a hug she is always pretty receptive. Never once trying to get out of it. -The really weird thing is that she is very physical with her sister and friends. She hugs them, tickles them, plays with their hair, and even cuddles in the backseat of my car with them. It's like a cruel joke. I want nothing more than to hold that girl in my arms and here I have to watch her cuddling with her 19 year old sister and/or friend. -Whenever I invite her to go somewhere, she tends to wait until I'm just about ready to come pick her up and then she will ask if her sister can come with. I'm not going to be a jerk and say no, so I say yes and we have another night of me driving them around while I watch with envy. It's nothing sexual at all, just close sister stuff, but it's very aggravating that I can't even get a hand hold. Sometimes she won't even ask if she can come, I'll just get there and they'll both get in the car. The only alone time I get with her is in my car sitting in her driveway at the end of the night. An hour or two that I've grown to really enjoy since we're never awkward and conversation comes easy. -She insists that she really likes me and sees us being together in the near future. At one point she even said she was feeling ready for a relationship again.....that was 3 months ago. I've told her my concerns about her rarely showing any signs of interest in me other than when I initiate. She just says it's not true and that she does really like me and that she wouldn't hang out every single day for months and months if she didn't like me. I've also told her that if she ever realizes that she never wants to be with that she must tell me immediately to keep me from being strung along and hurt. She said she would if she ever felt that way, but so far has not. I rambled a bit, but I am so lost and confused beyond belief. I have never met someone I liked as much as her. Nor have I met another girl where I feel completely comfortable in talking and being with. What is the problem? I do a ton of favors and other things for her because I enjoy seeing her smile, so it's not like I'm in it for the wrong reasons. I truly care about her and she knows that. What is she thinking? Does she think I'm not good enough? Someone clue me in because I've never had this issue before. Thanks
Philosoraptor Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Her words do not match her actions because she is still healing from the past. When you were intimate in the past it seems like it shocked her and she realized she was not ready. Sounds like she is still hung up on her past and you are support enough so she doesn't have to feel alone. I wouldn't be surprised that when she has healed, she will move onto someone else. She may also minimize what you two shared because she was never initiating anything. Right now it seems that you are a soft cushion.
veggirl Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Ouch, OP. I'd be VERY VERY VERY careful of this one. She is using you, consciously or not. I'd be prepared for her to drop you real quick when she meets someone else. When you call her to make plans why don't you SPECIFY that you want it to be just you and her? Also, I'd def back off...let her come to you. Maybe she won't.
Author Sabian Posted February 15, 2012 Author Posted February 15, 2012 Ouch, OP. I'd be VERY VERY VERY careful of this one. She is using you, consciously or not. I'd be prepared for her to drop you real quick when she meets someone else. When you call her to make plans why don't you SPECIFY that you want it to be just you and her? Also, I'd def back off...let her come to you. Maybe she won't. She calls me a lot to hang out too. She texts me every morning when I get to work, all throughout the day, and then when I get off work she calls and asks if I want to go out and do something. It's all very confusing.
Philosoraptor Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 She calls me a lot to hang out too. She texts me every morning when I get to work, all throughout the day, and then when I get off work she calls and asks if I want to go out and do something. It's all very confusing. Don't rationalize things. If you're unhappy with the way things are you need to express it. If no compromise can be made are you willing to stay like this forever? If not you may have a hard decision to make.
veggirl Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 She calls me a lot to hang out too. She texts me every morning when I get to work, all throughout the day, and then when I get off work she calls and asks if I want to go out and do something. It's all very confusing. Maybe you need to start saying "no I can't tonight" or "sure, if it's just you and me"
TigerCub Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Hey Sabian, Does this girl have a car? If not, she could be just wanting to hang out with you because you're good for transporting her and her friends/sister to the places she wants to go hang out. I'm sorry that you're in this position, but it does sound like she's using you and stringing you along - it really doesn't matter what her reason is, but the main thing is that you are unhappy with the way things are. You are her ego boost while she's wounded, you're not the guy she's desiring. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be hurtful, I'd just hate for you to be strung along waiting for the day she'll be ready for a real relationship with you. Perhaps if you tell her that you care about her, but you want a relationship with someone that wants a relationship with you, and you stop paying attention to her, she may show you how she truly feels. I know it sounds like game play, I don't mean for it to be that way, but if you just go along and you drive her around and hang out with her and her sister and settle for way less than what you want, she'll just see you as the "safe" friend. Good luck to you, I hope you don't settle for less than what you want.
Author Sabian Posted February 15, 2012 Author Posted February 15, 2012 Yes she does have her own car and when we go out we take turns being the designated driver. So it's not like I'm doing any more or less when it comes to that. I've also offered to pay for some things and she won't let me because she says she would feel bad letting me spend that much money. Meals, movie tickets, etc. If she was using me wouldn't she allow that to happen? She makes me text her when I'm driving home alone so she knows I made it home safe, she buys me random small presents when she sees something she knows I like, volunteered to drive 60 miles north to pick me up at the airport at 3 AM, and more. Those things aren't done if she is just using me. I've told her very very clearly that I couldn't be just her friend because watching her dating other guys would be way too hard. She said that I am more than a friend to her, but that she still isn't ready to be in another relationship.....couple that with the physical contact avoidance, and rarely wanting to be alone with me and you have a very confusing situation. And it's not like she's scared, uneasy, or weird when we are alone. Maybe once a month at most I finally get a chance to take her out to dinner just the two of us. Or go see a movie. It's always pretty easy-going and a lot of fun. We don't act any different. I dunno.
TigerCub Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Yes she does have her own car and when we go out we take turns being the designated driver. So it's not like I'm doing any more or less when it comes to that. I've also offered to pay for some things and she won't let me because she says she would feel bad letting me spend that much money. Meals, movie tickets, etc. If she was using me wouldn't she allow that to happen? She makes me text her when I'm driving home alone so she knows I made it home safe, she buys me random small presents when she sees something she knows I like, volunteered to drive 60 miles north to pick me up at the airport at 3 AM, and more. Those things aren't done if she is just using me. I've told her very very clearly that I couldn't be just her friend because watching her dating other guys would be way too hard. She said that I am more than a friend to her, but that she still isn't ready to be in another relationship.....couple that with the physical contact avoidance, and rarely wanting to be alone with me and you have a very confusing situation. And it's not like she's scared, uneasy, or weird when we are alone. Maybe once a month at most I finally get a chance to take her out to dinner just the two of us. Or go see a movie. It's always pretty easy-going and a lot of fun. We don't act any different. I dunno. oK, well its good that she's kind to you and not using you. That's really good. Lets say that what she says is true - that she thinks of you as more than a friend, but isn't ready to move on with you yet. You can still tell her that you want most of your outings and get togethers to be just the two of you and promise her that you wont make any moves on her (and keep that promise), but you do need to do something other than hang out with her and her friends all the time. You need 1 on 1 time with her and more than just once a month. That would be a start....somewhat(?)
Freddys Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Hey Sabian, Hope isn't late for you to be a challenge for her, is what all women want! Do not rationalize things with her, women are driven by they inner emotions. Tease her infront of her girl friends in a playfull way, make laugh at her, be a true challenge, so she can see a potential with you. Do not be good & polite all the time, is boring and finally she will dump you sooner or later, when a "challenge" man will come into her life and she''ll see some interest & potential to invest into him. Morever, make her pay as well !! DO NOT be the good guy all the time . . Do not be her driver, her "friend" or friend or friend with benefits. Last but not least, dissapear for a while and do not respont to her texts right way . . sometimes do not reply at all !!! Make her miss YOU! Make her miss your attention, your voice, your "friendship" and she'll come over you FOR SURE! Be a good bad guy! *I know my advices are very generic stuff, but is the only way for you. **Dissapear for a while and you'll see how a woman responds...It's time to remove the safe net you placed!
Almond_Joy Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Sorry if I misunderstand or misinterpret. To be honest, I kinda skimmed your post. But I did catch the bit about her physical contact avoidance. My behavior's very similar to the girl you're describing. The avoidance stems from a mix of insecurity with self-image and intimacy barriers. The suggestion that she could still be healing from a past hurt and has some intimacy issues as a result sounds pretty likely in her situation. The suggestion that she'd leave you when she's healed is pretty harsh. It sounds like you both really care about each other. I don't think you're in danger of that happening. I can say if her motives for the avoidance are the same as mine, she definitely wants a relationship with you. From what she's said to you, I'd say that the avoidance has nothing to do with you personally. I would guess that she feels just as strongly for you as you do for her....but issues with physical intimacy are difficult to overcome. They take time and a lot of personal development to get over. I'm noticing results with myself and the work I'm doing, but it's slow progress. Since you've said that you two have shared alot together, this may be something you should try asking her about directly. Tell her you notice the avoidance in public and privately. Be very careful of how much you imply that she's hurting you, or she'll develop tremendous guilt over it and may start being more affectionate without really being comfortable with it. A good way to phrase it would be that you see physical affection as an improtant part of a healthy relationship. She may not be totally aware of the severity of her avoidance - it took me a while to notice it myself. Once you've pointed it out, ask if she wants to talk about it. She may know why she does it. If she doesn't, that's something you two can work through together. All you can really do is be patient with her, tell her when things are getting better or if they're getting worse in this department. The issue, from my perspective, isn't something anyone else can really solve for her - she's got to make peace with herself. But having someone with her that cares about her, wants to be with her, and wants her to be happy will be a TREMENDOUS help during the process. Hope this helps, and good luck .
Almond_Joy Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Hey Sabian, Hope isn't late for you to be a challenge for her, is what all women want! Do not rationalize things with her, women are driven by they inner emotions. Tease her infront of her girl friends in a playfull way, make laugh at her, be a true challenge, so she can see a potential with you. Do not be good & polite all the time, is boring and finally she will dump you sooner or later, when a "challenge" man will come into her life and she''ll see some interest & potential to invest into him. Morever, make her pay as well !! DO NOT be the good guy all the time . . Do not be her driver, her "friend" or friend or friend with benefits. Last but not least, dissapear for a while and do not respont to her texts right way . . sometimes do not reply at all !!! Make her miss YOU! Make her miss your attention, your voice, your "friendship" and she'll come over you FOR SURE! Be a good bad guy! *I know my advices are very generic stuff, but is the only way for you. **Dissapear for a while and you'll see how a woman responds...It's time to remove the safe net you placed! ^^^This is pretty bad advice. All this will do is make her doubt the sincerity of your feelings for her, and destroy her trust in you and your intentions.
Freddys Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 ^^^This is pretty bad advice. All this will do is make her doubt the sincerity of your feelings for her, and destroy her trust in you and your intentions. If someone should doubt, is Sabian and not her! Sabian, has showed his cards already and what he gets back?? A big question . . . from her side. I didn't say him to be a bad boy or to make a 180 degress turn to himself, just to "play" with her emotions and not with her logic. He should make her wondering, "what if Sabian finds another woman?!!!!" If he can't demonstrate some "Alpha Male" attitude in a playfull way, this woman will seek the challenge sooner or later. I didn't say to mislead her! Being a true challenge doesn't mean she can't trust you! She is already taken you for granted . . and that's bad.
Author Sabian Posted February 15, 2012 Author Posted February 15, 2012 If someone should doubt, is Sabian and not her! Sabian, has showed his cards already and what he gets back?? A big question . . . from her side. I didn't say him to be a bad boy or to make a 180 degress turn to himself, just to "play" with her emotions and not with her logic. He should make her wondering, "what if Sabian finds another woman?!!!!" If he can't demonstrate some "Alpha Male" attitude in a playfull way, this woman will seek the challenge sooner or later. I didn't say to mislead her! Being a true challenge doesn't mean she can't trust you! She is already taken you for granted . . and that's bad. Yeah I would never do that. That's primitive thinking. It might work on the dumb girls you pick up at a bar, but I prefer my relationships to be mature and intelligent, not a bunch of mind games and animal planet like behavior.
Almond_Joy Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 -She insists that she really likes me and sees us being together in the near future. At one point she even said she was feeling ready for a relationship again.....that was 3 months ago. I've told her my concerns about her rarely showing any signs of interest in me other than when I initiate. She just says it's not true and that she does really like me and that she wouldn't hang out every single day for months and months if she didn't like me. I've also told her that if she ever realizes that she never wants to be with that she must tell me immediately to keep me from being strung along and hurt. She said she would if she ever felt that way, but so far has not. I just saw this. If you've already mentioned this to her, mention it again, and be firm in expressing that you want this dynamic to change. If you allow it to keep going on without saying anything, it will never get better.
spiderowl Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) She likes you very much as a friend. She doesn't seem averse to it going to the odd hug or kiss but not more. She pays a lot of attention to her female friends. Had you considered the possibility that she's lesbian or bi-sexual? It sounds possible to me. If so, she may well find her own mixed feelings confusing. How are you feeling? Confused? If you are feeling that, she probably is too. I know someone who sounds very much like her. She is bi and guys fall for her but she is very volatile and spurns them for girls quite often. Guys usually end up frustrated and confused. If she is lesbian or bi, where would that leave you? I don't know, but it's not likely to be a smooth path to the kind of relationship you'd like with her. The way things are now is frustrating to you and you are trying to move forward with her but she isn't allowing it. I think this is as far as it goes. If you aren't happy with it, be kind to yourself and back off and find someone else. You are really stuck on her and it's stopping you from seeing that there could be someone else for you. Edited February 16, 2012 by spiderowl
maybealone Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I don't know much about avoidance issues, but from what I know that could be a real possibility. It's also possible that she is very immature. I don't mean this in a bad way -- she sounds very thoughtful and probably acts grown-up in other ways -- but she may not be ready for an adult relationship. She may be more into things the way they were in high school, when you could date a year or more without sex. And the way you describe her behavior with other girls sounds like it could be middle-school level. Either that, or she is more into women than she is men and she doesn't realize it yet. I hope it works out for you, as you definitely seem to care about each other. I like the idea of being more proactive in spending more time alone. That might help you get a better picture of what's she's feeling, or at least allow you more time to talk about this issue.
Mrlonelyone Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 @Sabian You cannot make someone like you that way. It either happens or it does not. So just forget trying to force a more intimate relationship with this woman. Enjoy her company but find another woman to date. Consider chatting up one of her friends. Meeting someone through friends is the oldest way to meet. It's the original social networking.
Alex DeLarge Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 You're in the friendzone bro. She's using you for dinner, drinks, and entertainment. If I had sex with a girl and she started holding out on me, I honestly don't think I'd stick around for 7 more months lol.. Lose contact with this chick and go meet other women.. She's wasting your time.
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