El Brujo Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Shy guys (me included) cause all sorts of problems in the dating & singles scene. I thought about it, and it seems to me like shy guys are responsible for a lot of unintentional negativity. It's pretty common knowledge that in a crowded room full of singles, maybe no more than 1 in 10 women will initiate conversation with a guy, especially if he's hanging back and not doing anything, without even a drink in his hand. This is exactly how I behave in bars and nightclubs, which is why I no longer go to them. A woman may in fact be interested in the guy, but she won't break the ice because she thinks there's something wrong with him (thinks he's gay or creepy, has autism or Asperger's, never went to flirt school, etc etc), or that he's not nice to be with, or it's against society's rules. So, our shy guy goes home, dateless as usual, and starts to think negative thoughts about women (they're cold, unloving, lesbians, etc etc). Online dating is the same for him: he puts up a profile and some photos, but none of the women ever initiate contact with him or even view his profile. I don't know if anyone has the exact numbers, but this is surely a major reason why OLD has never worked for some of us. Meanwhile, back at the bar, our woman has been hit on a couple of times by PUAs and they're starting to really annoy her... so she goes home and starts to think all men are old goats. She didn't bother to break the ice with that one guy who was standing alone and looking around before he left early, either because she was afraid, or because she thinks it's against society's rules. Then she gets this idea that all men are bitter and lazy, and well... you can guess what happens then. Nobody wins. So, I don't think this post will change things very much... but it will be worth it if a few of us read it and figure out why it may not be so bad if more women approached the shy guys. After all, we're not PUAs.
daphne Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 it may not be so bad if more women approached the shy guys. After all, we're not PUAs. Or, perhaps you could start talking to women. Women are conditioned not to approach men. That probably isn't going to change while we're living.
Author El Brujo Posted February 15, 2012 Author Posted February 15, 2012 Or, perhaps you could start talking to women. Women are conditioned not to approach men. That probably isn't going to change while we're living. That's my point. That's why the negativity will multiply on both sides until women figure out the US is not Bolivia.
ThaWholigan Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Won't happen. PUAs might just be onto something LOOOL I agree with you though, but it's our fault really, we should be getting over this shyness thing and just talking to them. I'm autistic and I don't give myself any excuses everytime I chicken out of talking to a girl, I know I flaked like a little wuss.
Cypress25 Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 So, I don't think this post will change things very much... but it will be worth it if a few of us read it and figure out why it may not be so bad if more women approached the shy guys. Perhaps the women are shy too. And I agree with daphne. For men, it is advantageous to approach women, so start taking baby steps to overcome your shyness. I also wonder, even if a woman did approach you and initiate a conversation, would you be able to carry a conversation with her? The approach is only the beginning. She's not gonna stick around to chat if you're so overcome with shyness that your mind goes blank and leaves you tongue-tied.
Author El Brujo Posted February 15, 2012 Author Posted February 15, 2012 I also wonder, even if a woman did approach you and initiate a conversation, would you be able to carry a conversation with her? She'd better be prepared to find out that we giants are not the dummies society says we are. There are a few topics I know nothing about, as well as a few which may blow her mind. Any woman who likes reading H.P. Lovecraft and says so is a winner in my book. She's not gonna stick around to chat if you're so overcome with shyness that your mind goes blank and leaves you tongue-tied. FYI three words which are not in my vocab are Umm, Uhh, and Duh.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Shy guys (me included) cause all sorts of problems in the dating & singles scene. I thought about it, and it seems to me like shy guys are responsible for a lot of unintentional negativity. So, I don't think this post will change things very much... but it will be worth it if a few of us read it and figure out why it may not be so bad if more women approached the shy guys. After all, we're not PUAs. Confidence will NEVER stop being attractive to women. If you want things to be better here is what we should wish for: Shy men to step up and get over their fears. Not that shy men are inherently quality... I think just as many are douchebags with bad intent. Women stop being jerkoffs when a guy approaches you. I don't care if the guy has no hair and 1 dangly tooth. If the guy approaches you in a respectful way... BE NICE! Too many times I see sleezy pricks treat a woman like meat and be met with a giggle because he is handsome and more annoyingly not so attractive guys get treated terribly when respectfully approaching a woman.
ScreamingTrees Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 PUA's are just nerds or other strange men who do horible with women. So they invented code words to describe things that have been at work since the dawn of time. They didn't invent the concept of being funny, flirting, aproaching women, or being confident. They did invent the concept of writing entire books, speeches, programs about it and giving simple things like touching a woman or flirting with her code words. Listen shy guy girls like a shy guy. So just go over and say a few shy words to them and ask them out and you'd be doing a lot better. Yes if you are shy to the point that you refuse to talk to women and actively avoid them like a somedude you won't do well. No women will never be comming up to you and saying "Let me take you out to dinner tonight." Even if they did then you'd also need them to go in for the first kiss and try to get in your pants because you'd be to afraid for that to. Women are more afraid then men... they find men who arn't afraid attractive... they are perfecty happy ignoring men who hide and are scared. It's considered brave for a woman to do something like say "hi" or just smile at a guy she likes. The woman who flat out ask "will you go out with me" to a guy are very rare... in your case since you don't know any attractive women you're also looking for a woman to introduce herself and ask you out... a very rare woman indeed. I'm 27 and maybe encountered 1 attractive woman like this my entire life... I'm suprised even that. Know what? Every time I read one of your posts, it really makes me want to just go up to some random girl and start up a conversation. You're making me realize that I've had countless opportunities to just throw **** at the wall and see what sticks. You sincerely get me all hyped up, and I thank you for that. Hell, I've even had one or two really obvious invitations recently but I was caught off guard and wasn't thinking on my toes.. It's all good, though. When I AM ready, it'll be game over. Even when I sort of doubted you in some half-assed way, I really like how you regularly try to amp some of these clowns up. (Tough love, guys. Some of you, like me, really need to grow a pair and give a **** about your life. You're a MAN, not a child. Take control. Take responsibility. OWN your ****. BE the **** master.) Instead of being a "somedude" as I once was, I'm starting to be more of a "I'm a ****ing bad ass, and if you're not with me, you're just not on my level" kind of dude. More-so than I've always been. I go about my day, and if I see an opportunity, I'll go for it. I have no worries anymore. If a girl underestimates me or judges me, she just doesn't know me. Her loss. No need to think about it anyway, gotta just DO it and be "pleasantly surprised.." (Can't be surprised if you know it'll work out though, can you?) If she says no, as long as she's not a total bitch, there'll be no hard feelings. I could meet an even better looking, more intelligent girl minutes after her that DOES say yes. Hoping to make you proud as hell someday soon, brosquito. Looking forward to forcing a single salty tear of pride to roll off of that hairy, proud man-face of yours. Just wait for it. It's going to happen, and it won't even be a big deal 'cause I'll be SWIMMIN' in bitches by then.
zone Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) deletedeleted Edited February 15, 2012 by zone
Author El Brujo Posted February 15, 2012 Author Posted February 15, 2012 Confidence will NEVER stop being attractive to women. No women will never be comming up to you and saying "Let me take you out to dinner tonight." Know what? Every time I read one of your posts, it really makes me want to just go up to some random girl and start up a conversation. See what I mean? You guys are multiplying the negativity. Look, if what you say happened most of the time, there would be no such things as singles meetup groups, because they'd be nothing but all-male pity parties. I hate to break your hearts, but I've BEEN to those meetups, and over half the people who show up are women. And yes, they've initiated plenty of conversations with me, and I've found some of them to be quite fascinating and knowledgeable. (And then there are the very short women, who just wanted to walk up to the dumb giant so they could crack wise at him, but no way did any of them score with me... you can't hit on a guy and piss him off at the same time.) So, it looks like you've got a lot of work to do, heh heh... start crashing these meetups beginning with the one I'm going to on the 18th, and tell all the women to do the wallflower thing instead.
coffee.girl Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I also wonder, even if a woman did approach you and initiate a conversation, would you be able to carry a conversation with her? The approach is only the beginning. She's not gonna stick around to chat if you're so overcome with shyness that your mind goes blank and leaves you tongue-tied. No women will never be comming up to you and saying "Let me take you out to dinner tonight." Even if they did then you'd also need them to go in for the first kiss and try to get in your pants because you'd be to afraid for that to. Quoted because this has been my experience when approaching/dating shy guys. And why I probably won't again. I'm not saying this to be nasty or troll this thread..... I'm saying this because we (women) want you (genuine, sincere but shy guys) to engage us in conversation and, if that goes well, ask us out!! Know what? Every time I read one of your posts, it really makes me want to just go up to some random girl and start up a conversation. You're making me realize that I've had countless opportunities to just throw **** at the wall and see what sticks. You sincerely get me all hyped up, and I thank you for that. DO IT!!
Emilia Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 So, I don't think this post will change things very much... but it will be worth it if a few of us read it and figure out why it may not be so bad if more women approached the shy guys. So to cut to the chase so to speak: you are too shy to approach women most of the time and yet you expect them to do what you are not capable of?
veggirl Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 How people can get firmly into adulthood still too "shy" to talk to strangers is beyond me, barring some sort of social disorder, which I don't think many people TRULY have.
somedude81 Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 IMO, the main reason quiet guys are quiet and insecure is because when they tried to reach out to women, they were put down. Even animals can figure out that if something is going to cause pain they won't do it again. I've been really hurt by so many women, that I'm just afraid to put myself out there and try anymore.
ThaWholigan Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 How people can get firmly into adulthood still too "shy" to talk to strangers is beyond me, barring some sort of social disorder, which I don't think many people TRULY have. Fear really, isolation at certain ages can make you like that. I understand it perfectly.
ScreamingTrees Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) See what I mean? You guys are multiplying the negativity. Hey, wait.. Are you saying I was being negative? Hoping that was sarcasm, but then again, the other two comments sound a bit negative.. I was actually sincere. I really like Dust, I think he's a positive kind of guy, and if everyone here was a bit more carefree and just whatever, they'd probably have more success in life in general. It seems as though every time I see his posts in threads, they literally amp me up. I don't see the opposite sex as aliens or enemies like some of these guys, I just sort of lack opportunities and right now I'm pre-occupied with other **** so I fantasize and get myself hyped in the meantime. I wasn't trying to be negative, you probably just assumed I was. It's all good. I agree with Wholigan wholeheartedly. People doubt themselves and they overthink everything and little things become magnified because they're so sensitive, like seeing the world through a small but intense magnifying glass.. Edited February 15, 2012 by ScreamingTrees
Content Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 How people can get firmly into adulthood still too "shy" to talk to strangers is beyond me, barring some sort of social disorder, which I don't think many people TRULY have. Some of us arent as outgoing or good covnersationalists with people we dont know as some others.. Plus talking to a stranger and hitting on someone is entirely different..Just talking to someone theres no chance of rejection approaching a women some people have fear of being rejected told their not good enough called a creep etc
ScreamingTrees Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Some of us arent as outgoing or good covnersationalists with people we dont know as some others.. Plus talking to a stranger and hitting on someone is entirely different..Just talking to someone theres no chance of rejection approaching a women some people have fear of being rejected told their not good enough called a creep etc Thing is, you can't build it up. You just have to go out and do things and enjoy yourself and strive to be the best version of yourself that you can be. If you happen to meet a girl and talk to her for a bit, even if it's a one time thing in some random public place, you'd lessen the chance of any negative outcomes if you just casually ask her out to do something without even really thinking about it. It's when you dwell on it and build some sort of fantasy before you're even physically/mentally invested in what might be a total stranger.. That will ruin your chances.
Dafa Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 So to cut to the chase so to speak: you are too shy to approach women most of the time and yet you expect them to do what you are not capable of? See it from the other side then. Women do not generally seem to be capable of doing something simple as asking a guy out, yet they expect the guy to do it... Of course women are capable of doing it, they just don't. Shy men have difficulties with that because of the way they are "programmed". It is not their fault, in my view. Even the ones who manage to overcome the shyness, do it with alot of self-work.
Dafa Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Fear really, isolation at certain ages can make you like that. I understand it perfectly. I very recently read a very insightful article about introverts Vs extroverts (link below, as a matter of fact). The Upside Of Being An Introvert (And Why Extroverts Are Overrated) - TIME Anyway, at a given point, a study was done by psychologists where they imposed on several 4 month-old kids new experiences like popping balloons near them, make them smell intense scents like alcohol, etc.. The result was that about 20% where highly reactive to the trigger (crying and whatnot), 40% were more or less reactive and the other 40% didn't react much. The leading psychologist in the study brought these kids back to the lab and noticed that indeed these highly reactive kids had a tendency to be more introverted and inhibited. The point i'm trying to make is that being a shy and introvert has relatively little to do with one's own choices. It seems to be part of one's nature from the start and when you arrive to an age where you are (supposedly) able to construct your persona, this is something that you have to work around. While this article does not speak (at least much) about the kind of social interactions we are discussing here, I believe this shyness around women seems to be correlated to what i presented here.
Cypress25 Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 The point i'm trying to make is that being a shy and introvert has relatively little to do with one's own choices. It seems to be part of one's nature from the start and when you arrive to an age where you are (supposedly) able to construct your persona, this is something that you have to work around. Shyness and introversion are not the same thing. Not all introverts are shy. I agree that both are personality traits, but they're independent of each other.
Badsingularity Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I've been really hurt by so many women, that I'm just afraid to put myself out there and try anymore. Do you want to look back on your life decades from now an think " Man if I had just tried back when I was 30, if I had just faced my fears back then things could have been so different"? Don't do that to yourself man. Your 30 now. You still have time. Gather up the courage. Every time you get rejected give yourself a pat on the back for facing a big fear of yours. Look at it as a positive thing. If you keep doing this and don't give up, rejection will not bother you nearly as bad as it does now. You will grow callous to it wich will allow you to approach more women without worrry. Atleast if you do that you want have to look back one day a say "what if?".
somedude81 Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Do you want to look back on your life decades from now an think " Man if I had just tried back when I was 30, if I had just faced my fears back then things could have been so different"? Don't do that to yourself man. Your 30 now. You still have time. Gather up the courage. Every time you get rejected give yourself a pat on the back for facing a big fear of yours. Look at it as a positive thing. If you keep doing this and don't give up, rejection will not bother you nearly as bad as it does now. You will grow callous to it wich will allow you to approach more women without worrry. Atleast if you do that you want have to look back one day a say "what if?". I'm not going to last decades if my life doesn't change. I've been rejected by a lot of girls, at least a lot to me, and I had strong feelings for almost every girl I got rejected by. It's never an accomplishment.
Badsingularity Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I'm not going to last decades if my life doesn't change. I've been rejected by a lot of girls, at least a lot to me, and I had strong feelings for almost every girl I got rejected by. It's never an accomplishment. What I am talking about is seeing a girl you think is pretty or friendly, going up to her making some small talk and then asking for her number. You already have said several times yourself that you don't do this because you fear and assume rejection. You don't do this because you are scared. This is the fear that you need to face. You never approach girls that way, so if you decided to cast your fear aside and do it anyway it would be an accomplishment and it would be something to be proud of. I used to be just like you man. Trapped by fear and in denial. I wish someone would have told me all this stuff back when I was younger so I wouldn't have wasted so many years being single, sad, and negative. That's what I'm trying to do for you. So you don't have to waste anymore time.
somedude81 Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Why would getting my fears confirmed by being rejected by a random girl be something to be proud of? I can go to my campus and get rejected by 20 girls in one hour. What can that possibly do for me? All it would do is lower my self-esteem by confirming that girls don't like me.
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