zengirl Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 The UK standards of polite table behavior are considered stuffy here in the US. Outside the most formal settings, we are very relaxed on table etiquette. I attended a class on etiquette as a young teen, so I know what is and is not appropriate...but I've never been in a setting since that required such etiquette. If I am ever invited to, say, the White House for dinner, however, I know not to cut with my fork or blow on my food Right! You are very good at the concise summaries. Most people I know understand how to eat in a formal setting, even without an etiquette class. . . we just don't see the need to eat that way in most restaurants.
Emilia Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 It becomes second nature. I wasn't born in the UK but learnt how to be disciplined at the dining table when I came over here and it is something that pleases me I have to say.
Emilia Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Most people I know understand how to eat in a formal setting, even without an etiquette class. . . I'm not sure I agree with that. I think it isn't something you know unless you are taught properly - don't mean etiquette class but being constantly reminded by parents for example. A lot of people hold their knife like a pen or their fork the wrong way up, etc.
kiss_andmakeup Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I'm not sure how this thread landed on table etiquette, but in response to the OP, I've always considered middle class to be between $40k and $99k...with varying degrees (lower, middle, upper) of course. It's so interesting to see how views on this differ, especially dependent on location. I live in a very nice area, but not either coast, where the basic cost of living seems to be higher (particularly in CA and NY). I also tend to think your financial class can have more to do with how you manage your money than how much you actually make. I'm in the early stages of my career and am still building my business, so I made just barely over 20k last year. But I've been extremely responsible with my money, therefore I have zero debt, and thousands saved. To me, that makes me more financially on-track than someone who makes 50k but has tons of debt and leases cars or homes they can't afford. My boyfriend grew up in a modest, blue-collar family and put himself through 10 years of schooling...so even though he makes around 200k, he considers himself "middle class" because of his significant student loan debt. It's a very interesting topic indeed.
zengirl Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I'm not sure I agree with that. I think it isn't something you know unless you are taught properly - don't mean etiquette class but being constantly reminded by parents for example. A lot of people hold their knife like a pen or their fork the wrong way up, etc. I think a lot of people learn through the rare formal settings in their lives. Generally, most professionals I know have been in a formal setting (maybe not the White House or anywhere with 10 different pieces of cutlery or so forth) enough to know how to use a knife and fork, even without putting an elbow on the table (which a web search of etiquette journals tells me isn't even an issue in the UK anymore, since the 90s!, and has never been in the US) but there's no reason to do so in any other setting.
Emilia Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I think a lot of people learn through the rare formal settings in their lives. Generally, most professionals I know have been in a formal setting (maybe not the White House or anywhere with 10 different pieces of cutlery or so forth) enough to know how to use a knife and fork, even without putting an elbow on the table (which a web search of etiquette journals tells me isn't even an issue in the UK anymore, since the 90s!, and has never been in the US) but there's no reason to do so in any other setting. My point is that they probably THINK they can use a knife and a fork correctly but most likely can't.
Eve Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) The modern class system to me is linked mainly to where a person lives. Simple as that. The old system of class is defined by social class which is linked to race and privilege beyond where a person lives. Everyone I know I would define as being middle classed, with some being upper middle classed due to family links but it is seen to be preferable to fit into the middle classes. Wages are not a good definition as many people I know are wealthy due to parents/grandparents leaving them money and land. By and large most people have incomes of probably £30 - £80000 (average professionals) or obviously higher for Doctors etc. But I am more towards the North of England which has a very different feel to the South. Take care, Eve x Edited February 16, 2012 by Eve
hotgurl Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 My husband and I gross 75K. I suppose we are middle class. It doesn't feel that way. I have a kid heading to college and we make to much to get a lot but not enough to pay for it. We also live in a high cost low pay state. Our jobs are professional and we are educated. If we lived somewhere else we would make over 6 figure. I called where we live a boutique state.
zengirl Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 My husband and I gross 75K. I suppose we are middle class. It doesn't feel that way. I have a kid heading to college and we make to much to get a lot but not enough to pay for it. We also live in a high cost low pay state. Our jobs are professional and we are educated. If we lived somewhere else we would make over 6 figure. I called where we live a boutique state. Actually, this, to me, is the definition of middle class in America. Making not enough to pay for college for your children easily and too much to where you're left out of a lot of aid packages (any that consider need). Paying for college for children comfortably seems like an upper class thing to me, still. My parents could do it today if I was a decade younger, but they definitely didn't have the money to do it when I was in college (they could've helped out some, though they paid off debt instead since I had the scholarships). They weren't poor, and I didn't qualify for any need-based aid because of it, which left me out of certain schools that don't ever give 100% (for a Bachelors) aid without some need. But I think that's a great litmus test.
kiss_andmakeup Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Interesting. By the way student loan debt is a lot different then normal debt. If you lose your job you can call them up and just not pay it till you get a job or more money. If you only make say 60k you can go on income based repayment and even if you have 200k of debt you may only end up paying about 65$ a month or nothing until they let you just drop it. also he only makes 200k? Even the crappy doctors around here make upwards of 400k... Might want to check out this link: Physician Salaries by Medical Specialty 200k is pretty middle-of-the-road for a specialty physician (although my boyfriend's particular specialy is not listed there). I know student loans are a bit different; as a result he has good credit and it's not a concern. I've considered taking out student loans to go back to school.
xxoo Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 (edited) My point is that they probably THINK they can use a knife and a fork correctly but most likely can't. I don't think it matters here, even in the most formal settings. Another possible difference....here a "classy" host will always strive to make the guest feel comfortable. It would be considered in poor taste to judge a guest on the way they hold their fork. If a guest began unexpectedly eating with his fingers, a classy hostess would beg forgiveness for forgetting to put out extra napkins But there is a difference between "classy" and being upper class. A person can be classy, or not, in working class, middle class, or upper class. Edited February 16, 2012 by xxoo
hotgurl Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I'm from the US. We don't really have a class system like the one in the UK. For example, in the US you can't tell much about a person's background based on accent, aside from what part of the country they're from. For example George W. Bush grew up "upper class" and we all know what his accent sounds like. It's my understanding that class in England comes from the tradition of the landed gentry and people have titles and such. Of course the US never had that sort of tradition. The closest we have is the concept of "old money," such as the Boston Brahmin or the "blue bloods" on the Main Line in Philadelphia, but most Americans wouldn't even know what that means, let alone consider it important. LOL my MIL lives on the main line. talk about wealth.
veggirl Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 If all these posters are being truthful, LS is NOT representative of "middle class" AT ALL. You guys are loaded! I'm middle class. 45k.
Queen Zenobia Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 If all these posters are being truthful, LS is NOT representative of "middle class" AT ALL. You guys are loaded! I'm middle class. 45k. I'm not going to lie, me and my fiance are pretty loaded. We made a little more than $100,000 last year and his house is completely paid off (inherited it from his aunt). Too bad we're too frugal to spend it on anything frivolous. Maybe we should develop some bad habits.
fortyninethousand322 Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I'm not going to lie, me and my fiance are pretty loaded. We made a little more than $100,000 last year and his house is completely paid off (inherited it from his aunt). Too bad we're too frugal to spend it on anything frivolous. Maybe we should develop some bad habits. Show off.
veggirl Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 I'm not going to lie, me and my fiance are pretty loaded. We made a little more than $100,000 last year and his house is completely paid off (inherited it from his aunt). Too bad we're too frugal to spend it on anything frivolous. Maybe we should develop some bad habits. The way some of these posters talk, at 100k you are practically destitute. :lmao: or BARELY middle class, lol.
Queen Zenobia Posted February 16, 2012 Posted February 16, 2012 Unless you're buying (inheriting) a forest or massive ammounts of commercial land I don't consider a house an investment or an asset. I only consider them for housing purposes. 100k between two people is hardly loaded but good for you! You know I'm one of your fans sorry to be a bch and argue with you. I don't consider it an asset either. I merely mean to say we have no housing expenses except for repairs and real estate taxes. No rent, no mortgage. And I know it's not "loaded" (trust me I know loaded) but it's pretty good for two people in their mid twenties.
florence of suburbia Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 The way some of these posters talk, at 100k you are practically destitute. :lmao: or BARELY middle class, lol. Well, it completely depends on cost of living in your area. It would be difficult to live comfortably on 100K in Boston or LA or NY.
florence of suburbia Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 BTW, I guess people in the UK don't eat chicken wings?
carhill Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 (edited) Please don't say all of your friends are plumbers... Absolutely not, though one of my tenants pulls down near 100K as a flooring (hardwood/vinyl/tile) contractor. Most are business owners and real estate investors, generally in commercial real estate. All it takes is a couple million dollar commercial properties free and clear to generate that kind of monthly passive income after expenses. They also loan money privately. My dad used to buy mortgages and make passive income off the interest. Stuff like that. When I say 'modestly', I mean living in houses within the median price range of the area and driving 'normal' vehicles, like a pickup truck or regular sedan; nothing upscale or luxury, and keeping vehicles 5-7 years. This is what my parents did as well. I'm still driving the last car they bought and it's 28 years old this year, as well as still own the modest house they lived their whole marriage in. I would say, of my friends, my best friend's CEO probably typifies the local 'middle class', in that he makes a consistent salary near 110K, lives in the 'nice' part of town in a .5MM house, drives 'upscale' vehicles and his kids go to the same private school I did and he takes clients out to the 'country club' for golf. OTOH, my best friend and I will be found down at the river not too far from that country club plowing through a few hundred rounds of ammo at the range. Different strokes. Edited February 26, 2012 by carhill
spookie Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 I consider the upper class people who don't need to work. The line between lower and middle classes are blurrier IMO, especially in this economy; and largely contingent on age, marital status, and children. In my mind lower class means living paycheck-to-paycheck with not much hope for change. Barely being able to feed your pets and children. There are a lot of destitute people in the US these days. In my mind they are the lower class. The middle class is everyone else.
threebyfate Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 Haven't seen too many Canadians punctuating their words using bacon strips during breakfast. Forks and knives here too. Since most are in the U.S., middle class appears to be anywhere above the deemed 2011 poverty level of $22,350/family of four and below $250K with various subcategorizations like lower and upper preceding the term.
Eternal Sunshine Posted February 26, 2012 Posted February 26, 2012 I am currently holidaying with my brother and his girlfriend at a certain tropical island. We are staying at a mid level apartment. Not far from us, is an exlusive 5 star resort that charges $3000 per night for their least expensive option. You know you are above middle class when you stay there, without giving it a second thought
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