Sanman Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 How much money do you think you need to be comfortable? Fall into the middle class? The argument in the other thread got me curious about the opinions here. $100-120k was cited for So Cal in the other thread. What are your expectations of a future spouse? Thoughts?
Star Gazer Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 How much money do you think you need to be comfortable? Fall into the middle class? The argument in the other thread got me curious about the opinions here. $100-120k was cited for So Cal in the other thread. What are your expectations of a future spouse? Thoughts? What is your real question: How much does it take for a particular poster to be comfortable? How much does it take to fall into the middle class? What are your income expectations of a future spouse?
ja123 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 100K-120K is top end in my neighbourhood. I'd be happy if a future spouse makes >35K.
Star Gazer Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 How much does it take for a particular poster to be comfortable? In my area in a metropolitan part of NorCal, $100k if no student loans. About $115k if student loans. How much does it take to fall into the middle class? $75k-$125k. $75k is probably true middle/non-professional, $100-125k is the professional middle (aka upper middle). What are your income expectations of a future spouse? Same or more than I earn, just over 6 figures.
Author Sanman Posted February 14, 2012 Author Posted February 14, 2012 What is your real question: How much does it take for a particular poster to be comfortable? How much does it take to fall into the middle class? What are your income expectations of a future spouse? All three actually. It was an interesting conversation and I wanted to keep it going.
kaylan Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class Problem solved Im from the NYC metro area and I know families of 4 who live comfortable on 120K combined Edited February 14, 2012 by kaylan
Star Gazer Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_middle_class Problem solved Im from the NYC metro area and I know families of 4 who live comfortable on 120K combined "Yet another definition states that the statistical middle class includes all those households with income ranging from $25,000 to $100,000. This is, however, a very vague definition, as it includes persons from all but the lowest quintile. Using this definition creates a class so economically fragmented that it would lump together those who are struggling to make ends meet with two incomes and those who are able to live the iconic middle class lifestyle with just one income and are highly educated." Nope, problem not solved.
kaylan Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Duh read the whole page. Middle class gets split into lower, middle, and upper divisions. Once a single person gets near 6 figures they are considered upper middle class usually.
musemaj11 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Same or more than I earn, just over 6 figures. Unless your face matches your expectation, you are going to remain a spinster until the end of your life.
joystickd Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 It depends on location. Small town like I like a person could live good with 50k. You doing excellent with 120K
SJC2008 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 In the suburbs of Houston, middle class can be as low as $70k combined due lower housing and property taxes then most places in the US. When my parents bought their house in 98 it was $45k. Now it's worth about $75k in the current market. It's a lower middle class neighborood, not "ghetto" but we do hear the occasional gun shot.
zengirl Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Comfortable? I have no debt and live in a lower cost city, as cities go, so I can be comfortable on $35,000 pretty easily. I make more than that myself. I consider a household making above 40K easily middle class (I'd say 35-65 is probably my core range of middle class, though 65K is quite a lot), based on statistical data. Median income falls well below that in most states. And that's the household income, not individual income. Basically, any professional making 30K or more in MOST cities (exceptions must be made for places where COL is much higher) are middle class and anyone making 50K in any city is probably middle class. Many people who claim to be middle class are really upper class. Maybe not properly rich, because they work for their money, or the 1% or anything, but definitely not middle class since they're making more than the VAST majority of Americans. After all, classes are about comparisons, not about being comfortable! In any city, 100K is not middle class by my definition or by any statistical definition. VERY small percentages of people make that much. That's like saying the 96 percentile is the middle of the grading curve! As for what I expected in a spouse. . . never really thought about it but I would only date professionals, so I was never really worried. Hubby makes almost 6 figures, so he is above middle class, IMO.
Feelin Frisky Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 I think it's a state of mind that is very subjective. Many people who have achieved wealth by their own sweat still carry less than middle class outlooks where fear of poverty never abates. There are also many people who think they are "middle class" who are really "working class" or poor and are just deluding themselves--they are slaves who work for crumbs and can never risk a dime on breaking into the wealth that gets them out of the trap of their beliefs. I can't put a number on anything. My own feeling is that the best thing is for a couple to be happy with each other and willing to go in the same direction. These are times where it really is 1% and 99% and we don't get to dictate economic terms (unless we're really hot).
aj22one Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 How much money do you think you need to be comfortable? Fall into the middle class? The argument in the other thread got me curious about the opinions here. $100-120k was cited for So Cal in the other thread. What are your expectations of a future spouse? Thoughts? I made 72k in 2011, I'd say I'm pretty comfortable and I'd say that's about middle class where I'm from (upper middle class for a 25 yr old single dude). Middle class in general is somewhere between 45k and 120k I think. I'd prefer a future spouse to be a working professional type. Don't particularly care how much she makes, just as long as she's not irresponsible with money.
zengirl Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 Personally, I feel people with high personal debt (that they've CHOSEN to take on) often think they're middle class even when wealthy. They try to do some kind of subtraction for the debt and bills, but they choose to need a lifestyle that was more expensive so the fact that they make more than most folks doesn't register because they're so caught up on what they owe or have to pay out each month. I think it's a state of mind that is very subjective. Many people who have achieved wealth by their own sweat still carry less than middle class outlooks where fear of poverty never abates. There are also many people who think they are "middle class" who are really "working class" or poor and are just deluding themselves--they are slaves who work for crumbs and can never risk a dime on breaking into the wealth that gets them out of the trap of their beliefs. I can't put a number on anything. My own feeling is that the best thing is for a couple to be happy with each other and willing to go in the same direction. These are times where it really is 1% and 99% and we don't get to dictate economic terms (unless we're really hot). This is true enough as well.
binny Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 I think it depends. For example, If a single person was earning an average salary (not sure what that would be in the US!), they would have a much more comfortable lifestyle than a married couple with 3 kids earning the same annual salary. As for future spouse, I expect him to earn at least enough to be able to support himself. I'm not bothered whether he can support me or not as I can support myself!
Titania22 Posted February 14, 2012 Posted February 14, 2012 I think it's a state of mind that is very subjective. Many people who have achieved wealth by their own sweat still carry less than middle class outlooks where fear of poverty never abates. There are also many people who think they are "middle class" who are really "working class" or poor and are just deluding themselves--they are slaves who work for crumbs and can never risk a dime on breaking into the wealth that gets them out of the trap of their beliefs. I can't put a number on anything. My own feeling is that the best thing is for a couple to be happy with each other and willing to go in the same direction. These are times where it really is 1% and 99% and we don't get to dictate economic terms (unless we're really hot). The bolded is what I thought when I read the question middle class. Here is sydney australia, even in the areas I would call the lower class, housing prices are still quite high, so people out there would still need a certain amount of income to buy a place. But the attitudes, beliefs and behaviour of that class are completely different to the attitudes, beliefs and behaviours of the people in areas like mine (middle class). (I learnt all about this as my last boyfriend was from the lower class, and we visited his relatives out there alot. It was the first time I ever realised there was a class structure in australia.) Rather than put a dollar value on it, I would say attitude, behaviour and what areas of sydney you prefer to spend most of your time. (As soon as my boyfriend left, he headed straight back out there and hasn't been seen in this part of the city ever since.)
jobaba Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 How much money do you think you need to be comfortable? Fall into the middle class? The argument in the other thread got me curious about the opinions here. $100-120k was cited for So Cal in the other thread. What are your expectations of a future spouse? Thoughts? In the areas that I am looking to live, middle class probably ranges from around $60,000 to $120,000 a year for a household of two or more. In order to be 'comfortable' in a safe, decent suburb of NYC for example, with a family of four (2 kids), I'd say a combined household income of ~ $80K would do. My expectations in a future spouse are based upon ambitions, not salary. I've known many empty vacuous butt kissers that make over six figures based on their ability to shmooze and throw others under the bus, so salary and position don't mean much to me. That said, I'm currently augmenting my credentials so that I am able to clear a certain amount for the rest of my life. With what my current girlfriend will be making soon, probably around $140,000 a year combined, or less than what my sister makes by herself. But that will be easily enough for me to live the lifestyle I want to live.
carhill Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Reading the thread I'll think I'll have to redefine my parameters. Most of my close friends (the guys; no clue about their wives) make between 15 and 20K per month before taxes and I always considered them middles since nearly all live modestly, meaning modest homes, regular vehicles and no extravagances. Compared to them, I live in relative poverty but get by OK. My parents were what I'd term lower middle class, able to live comfortably on one income and send me to private school. Nowadays, that tuition is roughly ten times what it was when I was a kid, as is a congruent mortgage payment, so dad would have to be making 140K or so to afford it in the same way. Guess that lines up pretty well. Compared to the major metro areas, we live in a relatively low cost of living area, which I imagine affects the hard numbers which describe the strata. Friends who live in the Bay or LA have million dollar 'crackerboxes'; that would be a mansion on the river here. Etc, Etc.. The guy's place across the street from me which sits empty would be ~15MM in Malibu, about 10 times what he last advertised it for. He's just a farmer with a pickup truck. For me, comfortable is not having to share my food with the cat
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 I think middle class is more about how you perceive money than how much you make. Middle class people sell their time and skills to others for money. They take that money and spend it on things they want and need, sometimes saving it for the future. They like to own things. Lower class people borrow money at ridiculous rates, and spend money when they have it on stuff that borders retarded. Like a suddenly wealthy singer who puts $200 rims on his toaster. They rarely have uncommon talents or skills to sell to an employer. Upper class people like to invest money. They like to work for themselves. They believe in using money to make more money and this is the primary use of their excess funds. They like to control things vs. own them. That's how I see it anyway.
jobaba Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 Reading the thread I'll think I'll have to redefine my parameters. Most of my close friends (the guys; no clue about their wives) make between 15 and 20K per month before taxes and I always considered them middles since nearly all live modestly, meaning modest homes, regular vehicles and no extravagances. Compared to them, I live in relative poverty but get by OK. My parents were what I'd term lower middle class, able to live comfortably on one income and send me to private school. Nowadays, that tuition is roughly ten times what it was when I was a kid, as is a congruent mortgage payment, so dad would have to be making 140K or so to afford it in the same way. Guess that lines up pretty well. Compared to the major metro areas, we live in a relatively low cost of living area, which I imagine affects the hard numbers which describe the strata. Friends who live in the Bay or LA have million dollar 'crackerboxes'; that would be a mansion on the river here. Etc, Etc.. The guy's place across the street from me which sits empty would be ~15MM in Malibu, about 10 times what he last advertised it for. He's just a farmer with a pickup truck. For me, comfortable is not having to share my food with the cat Your friends pull in 180K to 240K per year gross, before counting what their spouse makes? What are you guys, the California Society of Plastic Surgeons? And they live modestly? With a household income of 240K a year, you are pretty much a 1 percenter. Please don't say all of your friends are plumbers...
Ninjainpajamas Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) I would say between 35k and 150...a lot of guys in my field make at least 50k minimum up to 150k and we run around looking dirty doing a job most people think we get paid chump change for but we actually get paid really well. I work for a lot of wealthy clients in my day as well, and most of the people I have seen who have money are far more resourceful and conservative with their dinero than the middle class. I see guys with huge houses driving 84 mercedes or toyotas and their wives driving an 2001 mini vans lol and they just roll the bucket into this giant house/castle...snd they are the most frugal of people. Of course they tend to have nice cars too, but they don't drive them to work sometimes . They don't worry about "looking" like they got it from what I've seen other than where they live and their home. It's really the middle class who tries to show off like they have more, so whenever I see someone with an expensive car and looking all blinged out I first think middle class...unless I'm in a wealthy neighborhood, the wealthy people really spend their money wisely that I've seen or at least make sure they have the big things covered first like their homes where the investment is worth it. I still feel dirt poor however though compared to these people even though I do pretty well Crappiest most eccentric dressers in my experience have definitely been very wealthy, which I find very strange, they can dress like bums! Edited February 15, 2012 by Ninjainpajamas
setsenia Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 In my area in a metropolitan part of NorCal, $100k if no student loans. About $115k if student loans. $75k-$125k. $75k is probably true middle/non-professional, $100-125k is the professional middle (aka upper middle). Same or more than I earn, just over 6 figures. Star Grazer, do you live in the Bay Area also? I definitely agree. It takes at least combined income of $50k to rent a DECENT one bedroom apartment, plus have money for other expenses and have a little left over. However, it seems like the ones who can afford it around here are all the techs. Personally, I think it's totally unafordable and you definitely need to make $100k or even more to own a home around here and it may only get you a condo. So I'd agree with middle class being $75k and up if you consider middle class being homeowners. If we could do it differently, we would have moved up to the Sacramento area when we moved out on our own to go to college, which costs about half as much with just as many things to do. It's way too expensive around here and unless you make combined $100k a year, you can forget about owning a home. In most other areas, the average income is about $40k and you can easily own a home on that salary in another area. There are even several areas that are very affordable in CA. But in this area, not being college or trade educated is not an option. My brother's fiance wants children, but doesn't want to go to school. He's 27 and she's 25. He just graduated from a UC but looking at jobs that won't provide him a decent living. She jumps from minimum wage job to minimum wage job. Even in a less expensive area, minimum wage isn't going to pay your bills. You'll be broke constantly unless your spouse makes a lot of money, which I don't see happening with my brother with his profession choice. For me, it's important to have an ambitious spouse who doesn't want to settle for the minimum, but that's me. I want a comfortable living with two decent incomes.
El Brujo Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 How much money do you think you need to be comfortable? Fall into the middle class? The argument in the other thread got me curious about the opinions here. $100-120k was cited for So Cal in the other thread. What are your expectations of a future spouse? Thoughts? What I want to know is, why everyone still keeps calling it middle class when nobody wants to be identified as lower class or upper class. Lower class people don't want to be known as broke bums. Upper class people don't want to be known as stingy control freaks. So we call them lower middle class or upper middle class... that way, the lower class don't feel so offended, and the upper class are less obvious as targets for populist anger.
Emilia Posted February 15, 2012 Posted February 15, 2012 (edited) As most of the posters on this thread so far are from the US: do you define middle class by taste as well? In the UK being middle class is not only related how much you earn or what your father's job used to be but also by the lifestyle you lead. Examples: Middle class people will prefer to own period property rather than modern, they say lavatory rather than toilet, it is expected of them to stay married rather than divorce and of the mothers to have children only by one father (if she is a single mother). Sounds old fashioned I know. They are expected not to own the cheapest of everything but also not to flash labels around, not to have ostentatious 'money-flaunting' taste but rather to show decorum. Lower middle class can be anyone with a more conservative and restrained taste coming from the a working class background. Middle middle class are those earning just about enough to send their children to private school, can be Cambridge university background, certainly university educated. Upper middle class are those with high earning professional jobs (barristers, surgeons, some politicians, etc), Oxford background. Working class people are seen as those having more ostentatious taste, marble bathrooms (those with money), cars that are too flash, blingy jewellery, etc. If they have no money, naturally they live on council estates, don't go to university, etc. Upper class is the aristocracy, it isn't something you can aspire to be, you have to be born into it. It doesn't matter how much money you have. The expression the English use is 'those that don't have to buy their own furniture', ie those that have inherited old wealth. Edited February 15, 2012 by Emilia
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