Would you date a woman who failed to launch?

[Emilia]

I don't want to date a man with money. I don't need a man to take care of me at all; I actually despise it. I like to be independent and I actually don't mind supporting someone. I don't look for income as a qualification and I don't like a buying me anything or paying for me because I simply like paying it for myself; I take pride in it.

 

I've dated plenty of men much younger than me with very little money to their name. They have been all independent though with dreams and ambitions. None of them sat at home waiting for me to pick up their pants from the floor and pay for their lunch. Being independent is different from allowing other people to depend on you.

[somedude81]

How am I a control freak? Gimme a break dude. I have been here enough time to see how some posters are on this board. Too many threads get derailed for pages on end on something off topic to the original post. I dont need that happening by only the second page.

 

If you think Im a control freak for asking posters to start a different thread and let mine stay on topic, then you dont need to post here if it bothers you.

 

Also, you may be ok taking care of a woman who doesnt bring as much as you to the table, but many guys arent like that anymore. They werent raised in a time where women just grow up and move out once she has a man to take care of her and pay for everything. For most guys today, theyd resent a girl they had to pay everything for.

Because you aren't able to see that talking about how much money one needs to live off of one income is on-topic.

 

Did it occur to you that if a guy is in a relationship with a woman who has failed to launch, he's going to be supporting her? And maybe it would be a good idea to know if it's even possible?

[kaylan]

Because you aren't able to see that talking about how much money one needs to live off of one income is on-topic.

 

Did it occur to you that if a guy is in a relationship with a woman who has failed to launch, he's going to be supporting her? And maybe it would be a good idea to know if it's even possible?

How much money one makes is on topic, but debating what equates to middle class, and then debating what education level gets what income, is diverging away from answering my OP.

 

Its one thing for someone to answer my OP by saying they make enough money to support two adults and wouldnt mind doing so. Its another thing to start a debate within my thread about what constitutes "enough" money and which education level can attain those economics.

 

I simply asked who would be ok dating a woman without much life direction and who still lives like a teen...so theres no need to veer off course with the topic.

[Saxis]

Now I want to ask other dudes. Could you date a woman who failed to launch?

 

No, I couldn't. She needs to be able to support herself while we are dating at least. I can currently support myself and my daughter, but it is a struggle sometimes and I don't get to save or do things as much as I'd like. Expenses really wouldn't go up much living with my GF and her son, so if/when it moves to living together, I could see her potentially cutting back to part if we needed to juggle schedules with the kids or something AND if she wanted to. She's also been considering going back to school to expand her degree for a sizable pay raise and I'd be willing to help support her through that.

 

But no, I could never be with a woman who was waiting around looking for a guy to support her so she could just be a housewife and mother.

[Mr. Savage]

So we have to be successful so we can what? Prove to others how much better we are than them? Own that nice house and nice car because if we dont we are losers in the eyes of others?

 

Making a connection to someone in my opinion has nothing to do with finances, life goals, ambition to succeed, etc. And if you consider it a deal breaker you might find yourself living a lonely life.

[kaylan]

So we have to be successful so we can what? Prove to others how much better we are than them? Own that nice house and nice car because if we dont we are losers in the eyes of others?

You missed the point entirely.

 

Its not about proving anything to others. Nor is it about getting a nice big house. Its about being able to be on the same page as someone else when youre deciding to build a life together.

Making a connection to someone in my opinion has nothing to do with finances, life goals, ambition to succeed, etc. And if you consider it a deal breaker you might find yourself living a lonely life.

Are you serious?

 

Life goals and ambition to succeed would definitely allow people to connect with one another because they would have something in common.

 

Its definitely a deal breaker if someone has no life direction. Lets be real here. If someone had no goals, no ambition, no finances, and just lived like a teenager...how much of a connection can they make with someone whos a go getter, financially stable*, and has goals and plans in life.

 

Financially stable - can take care of themselves and is prepared for the future...doesnt mean rich.

[Titania22]

 

Life goals and ambition to succeed would definitely allow people to connect with one another because they would have something in common.

 

Its definitely a deal breaker if someone has no life direction. Lets be real here. If someone had no goals, no ambition, no finances, and just lived like a teenager...how much of a connection can they make with someone whos a go getter, financially stable*, and has goals and plans in life.

 

Financially stable - can take care of themselves and is prepared for the future...doesnt mean rich.

 

My problem is with this, people spend too much damn time projecting into the future, and they miss out on things that can be really special in the NOW.

 

My whole last relationship was projection into the future. Saving and goals and investing...etc. We completely missed out on enjoying the present, and one day he left, and all that saving amounted to nothing. Neither of us have any more now then we would of if we had tried to invest a little less, and spent a little more on fun at the time. And don't put it on me, because at a certain point I could see it happening, but I couldn't get him to.

 

Also when people constantly reject people for these things (i.e. well I am looking for marriage and children), they can turn around and have a relationship with someone else who they see would fit their vision more, ended up breaking up with that person after a few years. So in actuality they had a few years to kill before they were going to meet the spouse anyway, why couldn't they have spent their time with the great person they had an awesome connection with, over the person they did choose.

 

My point is, I think people get too stuck in their own heads, and most of us (myself included) miss out on a multitude of awesome life enriching experience, because we are busy trying to make our live fit into the model we have in our heads.

[kaylan]

My problem is with this, people spend too much damn time projecting into the future, and they miss out on things that can be really special in the NOW.

 

My whole last relationship was projection into the future. Saving and goals and investing...etc. We completely missed out on enjoying the present, and one day he left, and all that saving amounted to nothing. Neither of us have any more now then we would of if we had tried to invest a little less, and spent a little more on fun at the time. And don't put it on me, because at a certain point I could see it happening, but I couldn't get him to.

 

Also when people constantly reject people for these things (i.e. well I am looking for marriage and children), they can turn around and have a relationship with someone else who they see would fit their vision more, ended up breaking up with that person after a few years. So in actuality they had a few years to kill before they were going to meet the spouse anyway, why couldn't they have spent their time with the great person they had an awesome connection with, over the person they did choose.

 

My point is, I think people get too stuck in their own heads, and most of us (myself included) miss out on a multitude of awesome life enriching experience, because we are busy trying to make our live fit into the model we have in our heads.

Youre thinking in extremes though. I am not saying to focus solely on the future and to not enjoy the present. Im simply saying to enjoy life but have a life line available. Responsible planning is great, but just dont obsess on whats yet to come.

[Almond_Joy]

My problem is with this, people spend too much damn time projecting into the future, and they miss out on things that can be really special in the NOW.

 

My whole last relationship was projection into the future. Saving and goals and investing...etc. We completely missed out on enjoying the present, and one day he left, and all that saving amounted to nothing. Neither of us have any more now then we would of if we had tried to invest a little less, and spent a little more on fun at the time. And don't put it on me, because at a certain point I could see it happening, but I couldn't get him to.

 

Also when people constantly reject people for these things (i.e. well I am looking for marriage and children), they can turn around and have a relationship with someone else who they see would fit their vision more, ended up breaking up with that person after a few years. So in actuality they had a few years to kill before they were going to meet the spouse anyway, why couldn't they have spent their time with the great person they had an awesome connection with, over the person they did choose.

 

My point is, I think people get too stuck in their own heads, and most of us (myself included) miss out on a multitude of awesome life enriching experience, because we are busy trying to make our live fit into the model we have in our heads.

 

^^^co-sign. Future thinking can be venomous to a presently enriching relationship.

 

I'm wondering where do you draw the line? How far into the future is too far/"extreme" to be thinking of? A month? A couple months? A year? Completely relative to an individual's perception of "long-term." If long-term for somebody's 6 months, does it matter that the person they're with doesn't have or want a career? Not really.

 

I also think that people can be impatient with each other. Just because a person has no drive or ambition now doesn't mean time and experience won't change their tune. I guess everyone's got different standards to delineate when a person has the potential for that kind of growth or when they're a lost cause, but I say people are impatient because a lot of the time, people don't want to stick around to see if that happens. The person you're interested in either has it together when you meet them or you're moving on.

Edited February 15, 2012 by Almond_Joy

[gaius]

How am I a control freak? Gimme a break dude. I have been here enough time to see how some posters are on this board. Too many threads get derailed for pages on end on something off topic to the original post. I dont need that happening by only the second page.

 

If you think Im a control freak for asking posters to start a different thread and let mine stay on topic, then you dont need to post here if it bothers you.

 

Also, you may be ok taking care of a woman who doesnt bring as much as you to the table, but many guys arent like that anymore. They werent raised in a time where women just grow up and move out once she has a man to take care of her and pay for everything. For most guys today, theyd resent a girl they had to pay everything for.

It just seems to bug you whenever people post something that doesn't follow the threads exact premise, even in threads you don't start. I find it an interesting part of your personality, since I'm so different. But that's for another thread and another time.

 

I don't look at it as her not bringing as much to the table, money is just one thing really. My current girlfriend has a way of snuggling up to me in public when there are a lot of other guys around. I had an issue with a previous girlfriend and other guys, something that still irritates me today. I haven't even really discussed it with her as I don't like talking about it, but somehow she just knows and takes action to soothe my insecurity. Women like that are rare, and she makes ok money but if I ever passed up a girl that knows me like that because she made less then I do you should throw me in an insane asylum.

[gaius]

On second thought maybe throwing me in an insane asylum is a little harsh. I know there are people who prioritize living a certain lifestyle over everything else and there is nothing wrong with that whatsoever. As I said before I'm comfortable living pretty modestly and would not have trouble keeping this lifestyle going with a partner who did not make much money, so I tend to value other things more. To each his/her own.

[Els]

Well, the bf and I lived on about $1200/month (for both of us combined) for a while, sharing one room. It isn't what I'd call middle class, we had to budget everything, but it wasn't terribly bad. I could definitely envision a $5000/month income offering 2 people a comfortable life, even including taxes and reasonable savings.

 

I really don't see why you would need $120k/year or $100k/year to have a modest, comfortable life, unless you're intending on doing something ambitious like investing half of it each month.

[Els]

I simply asked who would be ok dating a woman without much life direction and who still lives like a teen...so theres no need to veer off course with the topic.

 

I would not equate someone who makes minimum wage as someone 'without life direction'. Some people just don't base their worth or goals off of their career. That makes them neither better nor worse people than those who do. I agree that someone who isn't studying or working or even taking care of the house or children, and just living off benefits, has 'no life direction and is living like a teen', but if someone is doing a job they enjoy, just not making much out of it, I'd be all for that. Equally so, I have every bit as much respect for SAHPs as I do for doctors and lawyers.

[kaylan]

I would not equate someone who makes minimum wage as someone 'without life direction'. Some people just don't base their worth or goals off of their career. That makes them neither better nor worse people than those who do. I agree that someone who isn't studying or working or even taking care of the house or children, and just living off benefits, has 'no life direction and is living like a teen', but if someone is doing a job they enjoy, just not making much out of it, I'd be all for that. Equally so, I have every bit as much respect for SAHPs as I do for doctors and lawyers.

But did you read the entire OP? Someone who have no ambition, makes minimum wage, lives with their parents and has no real responsibilities in terms of taking care of themselves has little life direction. They live like a teenager essentially.

 

The problem with that, as I have seen happen to some people I went to high school with, is that some of them end up having kids and living poor and miserable lives. Their parents end up having to help support them, and then they still dont try and get things together to raise their standard of living.

 

Its one thing to do something you enjoy, despite not making much...but is that what my OP is talking about? No, we are talking about someone who essentially has another adult taking care of them still.

 

Stay at home fathers dont equate to those folks. Stay at home dads are in their own homes and raising and enriching their kids lives.

 

It just seems to bug you whenever people post something that doesn't follow the threads exact premise, even in threads you don't start. I find it an interesting part of your personality, since I'm so different. But that's for another thread and another time.

 

I don't look at it as her not bringing as much to the table, money is just one thing really. My current girlfriend has a way of snuggling up to me in public when there are a lot of other guys around. I had an issue with a previous girlfriend and other guys, something that still irritates me today. I haven't even really discussed it with her as I don't like talking about it, but somehow she just knows and takes action to soothe my insecurity. Women like that are rare, and she makes ok money but if I ever passed up a girl that knows me like that because she made less then I do you should throw me in an insane asylum.

I have only lately just begun to remind people to keep threads on topic. If you looked around, youd see that threads have been getting locked because they drag on off topic and end up not pertaining to dating.

 

You keep bringing this back to just money though. I never said money was the only thing worth taking note on someones failure to launch. Their personality and lack of drive is of more concern.

 

Someone soothing an insecurity does not negate all the negative things I mentioned in my OP that happens with grown up kids. You keep trying to use your girlfriend as something to counter my OP, when shes not even in the "failure to launch" category. She has a job, doesnt look to mooch, and has focus on the future somewhat. Shes not someone whos looking to mooch off of her parents, never move forward or better themselves, and who doesnt have some idea of what the future holds. So I dont see why you use her as a comparison.

 

You make this all about money when that was only one part of the OP. And its not about passing someone up just because they make less money. Thats all well and good. Its about taking notice of someones lazy personality since they are content making almost minimum wage, living at home and gladly sponging off their parents with no intention of growing up and planning for their future.

Edited February 15, 2012 by kaylan

[gaius]

You keep trying to use your girlfriend as something to counter my OP, when shes not even in the "failure to launch" category. She has a job, doesnt look to mooch, and has focus on the future somewhat. Shes not someone whos looking to mooch off of her parents, never move forward or better themselves, and who doesnt have some idea of what the future holds. So I dont see why you use her as a comparison.

I'm not trying to counter anything, you asked a question and I'm answering it. I'm using them as examples of how I look at things.

You make this all about money when that was only one part of the OP. And its not about passing someone up just because they make less money. Thats all well and good. Its about taking notice of someones lazy personality since they are content making almost minimum wage, living at home and gladly sponging off their parents with no intention of growing up and planning for their future.

I don't know, I thinking you're making assumptions about people that aren't always true. There are different reasons for living at home, the secretary I mentioned was close with her mom and they got along well. She chose to live at home with someone who loved her and wanted her there. I know in our culture those who don't move out of the nest are viewed as less than but should she have put herself in a less enjoyable situation just to impress society? As far as money goes she was responsible enough, was always very careful about avoiding pregnancy and living within her means. I didn't really view a girl like that as having a lazy personality or being child like, so I could date her.

 

I guess we are different on another issue!

Edited February 15, 2012 by gaius

[kaylan]

I'm not trying to counter anything, you asked a question and I'm answering it. I'm using them as examples of how I look at things.

Thats exactly what you did. You countered my OP by bringing up your chick a couple times...when obviously she doesnt fit into the kind of person that the topic is about. I mentioned a specific type of person who fails to launch, not every single person who lives at home with their folks.

 

I don't know, I thinking your making assumptions about people that aren't always true. There are different reasons for living at home, the secretary I mentioned was close with her mom and they got along well. She chose to live at home with someone who loved her and wanted her there. I know in our culture those who don't move out of the nest are viewed as less than but should she have put herself in a less enjoyable situation just to impress society? As far as money goes she was responsible enough, was always very careful about avoiding pregnancy and living within her means. I didn't really view a girl like that as having a lazy personality or being child like, so I could date her.

 

I guess we are different on another issue!

How am I making assumptions? My OP is directly addressing a specific type of person. I did not paint all people who live at home, or who dont make a lot of money with the same brush. Maybe you should read my OP again. I specifically said that there exist fine reasons to live at home or not make bookoo bucks.

 

Obviously you cant read because you are simply just agreeing with what I said in my OP now. As I just said, my OP addresses a specific type of person who failed to launch.

 

And btw, the reason moving out is seen negatively in our society is that many people have come across the bad version of the person who lives at home well into their adult years. So it ends up painting all of those who live at home with a bad brush.

[GoodHeart1981]

When did men start thinking so much about these things? When you meet a woman, would you ask her all of these somewhat personal questions right off the top and then walk away if she told you she lived at home or was over 25 with a sucky job? Would you actually walk away from her or maybe tell her that she sucked at life and you want nothing to do with her? haha

 

I'm just trying to follow the chain of potential events. How does that work? I dunno, I guess I'm just used to men being more easygoing. I've never known of guys that actually practice these beliefs. What if you vibe with the girl and you like her personality? Why would her money so important? I'm just curious.

[kaylan]

^Someone did not accurately read the posts in this thread.

[GoodHeart1981]

Oh, okay.

 

Good talk then mate.

[Els]

But did you read the entire OP? Someone who have no ambition, makes minimum wage, lives with their parents and has no real responsibilities in terms of taking care of themselves has little life direction. They live like a teenager essentially.

 

Its one thing to do something you enjoy, despite not making much...but is that what my OP is talking about?

 

These two statements are in direct contradiction with one another. There are people who actually enjoy their minimum wage jobs and want to live with their parents to save money before they marry. I don't consider that as having 'no direction or ambition'.

[kaylan]

These two statements are in direct contradiction with one another. There are people who actually enjoy their minimum wage jobs and want to live with their parents to save money before they marry. I don't consider that as having 'no direction or ambition'.

The statements were not a contradiction. You are picking out one issue I am talking about. I am talking about a sum of issues...making little money, having no ambition or life direction, while also choosing to live at home and have ones parents take care of them. This is entirely different then the situation you are trying to mold into a counter argument.

 

And whos happy making minimum wage? Haha really? I have yet to meet someone who enjoys making practically no money in their stressful minimum wage job. Be realistic. Every person Ive met in a minimum wage job either hates their pay, hates their job, or both. And its practically impossible to save a decent amount of money with those jobs because they barely cover bills. So theyd never be able to move out since they couldnt afford living alone on such a pay rate anyways.

 

Again, learn to read the OP and posts in the thread. I was addressing several things in regard to a person failing to launch. I specifically said that we were talking about people who lived at home and had no plans to move and had no ambition. Btw you wont find a lot of ambition is someone whos not in school, makes minimum wage and chooses to stay home and not further their potential.

 

Did you read my OP with comprehension or not?

 

Either way, the real reason theres such a stigma for adults to live at home is because there are definitely a lot more adults doing it because they didnt get their life together. What people usually see more is that the person whos at home is more likely to be uneducated, lack independence, have kids, lots of debt, or just have something going on that showed irresponsibility or lack of foresight on their part.

 

Of course not everyone who lives at home is like this, but Im explaining why people usually have a specific reaction when they hear someone lives at home before getting all the facts. For every story someones heard thats the exact opposite of this for someone living at home, many of us encounter 3 or 4 stories of someone who fits right into that mold.

Edited February 16, 2012 by kaylan

[Disenchantedly Yours]

My problem is with this, people spend too much damn time projecting into the future, and they miss out on things that can be really special in the NOW.

 

My whole last relationship was projection into the future. Saving and goals and investing...etc. We completely missed out on enjoying the present, and one day he left, and all that saving amounted to nothing. Neither of us have any more now then we would of if we had tried to invest a little less, and spent a little more on fun at the time. And don't put it on me, because at a certain point I could see it happening, but I couldn't get him to.

 

Also when people constantly reject people for these things (i.e. well I am looking for marriage and children), they can turn around and have a relationship with someone else who they see would fit their vision more, ended up breaking up with that person after a few years. So in actuality they had a few years to kill before they were going to meet the spouse anyway, why couldn't they have spent their time with the great person they had an awesome connection with, over the person they did choose.

 

My point is, I think people get too stuck in their own heads, and most of us (myself included) miss out on a multitude of awesome life enriching experience, because we are busy trying to make our live fit into the model we have in our heads.

 

I totally agree with this 100%. You said this so articulately Titania.

 

If you are waiting for some magical person that has all their crap together 100%, is above a 7 on that scale I hate when we rate people, and a bunch of other stuff, you're going to either give yourself more heartache then you want or miss out on a lot. There is something to be said for enjoying and individual for who they are instead of a set standard you've set for who you want them to be.

 

We all got our own crap. Some of us might not live at home but that doesn't mean we are a more well adjusted people. I dated men that still lived at home. It was fine. They were well adjusted people. Infact, I liked how close some of them where to their families. I dated men that lived on their own and some didn't turn out to be good guys. If this was another country, it wouldn't be as big an issue.

 

Now I get wanting someone that has goals in life. Not someone that just wants to be a bump on a log. But I think that "ambition" can be applied in different context then just the stereotypical ideas.

 

Kaylan, in my experience, you are very focused on the ambition and success of your partner more so then what I experience in most men. I suspect it has to do more with not wanting to be in anyway, responsible for another person and social standing then anything else. You seem to place a lot of pressure on women to live up to a standard that you will probably only find in women that become supermodels or corporate CEOs.

 

As I have gotten older, I have cared less about "work" and more about family. Sometimes a woman just wants to dedicate her life to her family. That doesn't make her less of a person then women that enjoy and pursue successful careers. It just makes these two women's goals different. Some women want both! More power to them if they have the energy to do that. But not all women are made the same and not all women can do the same things. This doesn't make any of these women less then the other. The same applies to men. Presidential men are not better men just becaues they are more ambitous and successful then most.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Mr. Savage

So we have to be successful so we can what? Prove to others how much better we are than them? Own that nice house and nice car because if we dont we are losers in the eyes of others?

 

Making a connection to someone in my opinion has nothing to do with finances, life goals, ambition to succeed, etc. And if you consider it a deal breaker you might find yourself living a lonely life.

 

I agree with this too

[kaylan]

I totally agree with this 100%. You said this so articulately Titania.

 

If you are waiting for some magical person that has all their crap together 100%, is above a 7 on that scale I hate when we rate people, and a bunch of other stuff, you're going to either give yourself more heartache then you want or miss out on a lot. There is something to be said for enjoying and individual for who they are instead of a set standard you've set for who you want them to be.

Someone doesnt need to have everything together 100%. But they need to bring something good to the table.

 

Noone needs 100%. If you read the OP, all of those red flags are a valid reason to pass on someone. Its not that they arent 100%, its that they havent seemed to mature. Its not that one red flag automatically means they arent dateable, but the sum of the things in my OP does make them undateable.

 

 

We all got our own crap. Some of us might not live at home but that doesn't mean we are a more well adjusted people. I dated men that still lived at home. It was fine. They were well adjusted people. Infact, I liked how close some of them where to their families. I dated men that lived on their own and some didn't turn out to be good guys. If this was another country, it wouldn't be as big an issue.

But you still fail to really understand my point. Living home is fine. Theres nothing wrong with it.

 

The only time living at home is bad is when the reasons for doing so reflect immaturity and poor life direction.

 

Now I get wanting someone that has goals in life. Not someone that just wants to be a bump on a log. But I think that "ambition" can be applied in different context then just the stereotypical ideas.

Ambition to me is simply someone whos not satisfied with being a bump on a log. Its that simple.

 

Kaylan, in my experience, you are very focused on the ambition and success of your partner more so then what I experience in most men. I suspect it has to do more with not wanting to be in anyway, responsible for another person and social standing then anything else. You seem to place a lot of pressure on women to live up to a standard that you will probably only find in women that become supermodels or corporate CEOs.

Do you really read any the posts on this forum at all by men?

 

Plenty of guys here, and men in general, want a chick whos got a good head on her shoulders and is ambitious. They want someone whos mature, independent, and self sufficient. You must be blind and deaf if you havent noticed this being important to guys. So im not a rarity in the least. Like attracts like. Dudes who are educated and/or accomplished and/or ambitious, usually appreciate the same in a woman.

 

In the future Im probably going to have a family to help take care of, and have no issue with that. So I have no aversion to taking care of someone else, but they have to bring something to the table. I dont expect a supermodel or a corporate CEO. You must have low standards if you think what I desire in a woman equates to that. I simply seek a independent girl whos educated and attractive to me. Thats not an unrealistic desire at all and is damn common. Thats easy to find in any city seeing as plenty of women went to college and now work and take care of themselves.

 

If that equates to me wanting a model or CEO, then I feel you have a few screws loose in your noggin.

As I have gotten older, I have cared less about "work" and more about family. Sometimes a woman just wants to dedicate her life to her family. That doesn't make her less of a person then women that enjoy and pursue successful careers. It just makes these two women's goals different. Some women want both! More power to them if they have the energy to do that. But not all women are made the same and not all women can do the same things. This doesn't make any of these women less then the other. The same applies to men. Presidential men are not better men just becaues they are more ambitous and successful then most.

Hey...if a chick wants to simply dedicate her life to family, then fine. Shes free to find a guy whos ok with that.

 

However, in this day and age, the vast majority of families have 2 working parents. So stop acting like what I desire in a mate is so dang rare. Its pretty dang typical actually. Im a guy who wants to focus on career and family, so its not weird at all that I seek a woman whos focused on the same. Like attracts like.

 

Times have changed, and most parents dont just stay home with the kids all day. I wasnt raised that way so obviously I have different expectations and desires.

Edited February 16, 2012 by kaylan

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Kaylan

Someone doesnt need to have everything together 100%. But they need to bring something good to the table.

 

I don't know Kaylan, I am left with the impression that people do expect people to have everything 100% together. And look hot while doing it.

 

When I hear people say, "*They* need to bring something to the table", I wonder how often they think about what they bring to the table. And I wonder if they ever just look at someone for what they have to offer based on who they are unique to them vs. putting that person up to a chart you formulated in your head about who they should be so that they are good enough for you to pay attention to.

 

Do you really read any the posts on this forum at all by men?

 

Plenty of guys here, and men in general, want a chick whos got a good head on her shoulders and is ambitious. They want someone whos mature, independent, and self sufficient. You must be blind and deaf if you havent noticed this being important to guys. So im not a rarity in the least. Like attracts like. Dudes who are educated and/or accomplished and/or ambitious, usually appreciate the same in a woman.

 

Yes, men certainly want a woman with a good head on her shoulders and a good heart in her body. But I do not see as many men qualify education, accomplishments and ambition like you do. You seem to be *really*, really concerned about women and ambition. Let me ask you, what are some of your ambitions?

 

 

If that equates to me wanting a model or CEO, then I feel you have a few screws loose in your noggin.

 

Why do you have to be so offensive? We are just having a discussion.