Man... did I kill it?

[ChrisMac]

So I posted here before about a girl I was seeing long-distance, and now that that distance is over, I think I killed the relationship. Let me know what you think.

 

So I dated a girl from another city all last fall while I was in school in another city. I'm 36 and she's 32. We were hot and heavy, texting and flirting every day, and when we got together on weekends it was unbelievable. Spent two different weeks together in November and December and it was great, all our friends thought we were amazing, I was just nuts about her and she said she was crazy about me. I found out I got a new full-time job in her city, starting in one month. Even better.

 

Then the job told me they couldn't actually start me until April 1. Bummer. With no income until the new job started, and needing a visa to even live there, I had to go home and live with my parents for Christmas and New Year's. I wanted to fly to see her for New Year's -- we both wanted it insanely badly -- but I couldn't get together the $1200 for it. So we texted every day, sent funny photos, talked about life. Sometimes it was difficult -- her ex-boyfriend at one point went crazy trying to get her back but she refused -- and in the end my new job moved my start date up until mid-February. Terrific. In the last weeks she had gotten a little argumentative over silly topics, and one day just quit her job spontaneously with no backup to turn to, but she seemed generally okay and we were both so excited. Two weeks before I come over she says I might be the most amazing person she's ever met (clearly her judgment isn't perfect).

 

So after two months of waiting, finally the day comes and I arrive to stay with her for a week before moving into my new place. Immediately I can tell something's wrong. She's colder, seems to be trying too hard, does all the caring things girlfriends do but now it seems fake. I ask her what's wrong and she says nothing, everything's great, I'm seeing something that isn't there. This goes on and just gets worse for the next four days. Sometimes she acts like the girl I remember, other times she's cold as hell. I continue to act the overly sensitive clinger and ask her what happened... has she lost feelings? She laughs and insists no, I'm crazy.

 

Last night we both barely sleep but also don't talk, and this morning after I again ask her what's up, she finally confesses and says that since I've been back she's lost some of the feelings she had before Christmas. I ask what this means, does she want to break up, and crying she says no, absolutely not, but says she really needs space and time alone, and we've been together way too much in the past few days. She keeps repeating that she's so sorry, that I'm such a "good person", that she just wants to feel like she did before Christmas. So I tell her I'll move out and into my new place immediately, no worries, that she can have the time she needs and we'll work from there. She cries some more, then finally says after our talk she's feeling better. I pack up and go.

 

Since then she's texted once to ask how I am, then again to ask whether or not it was intentional that the only thing I left behind was the tie she gave me for Christmas. (it wasn't.) I'm for now going to play it cool but nice, not initiating contact but not being cold either, and see where it goes. I'd put a good deal of money down on a Valentine's event tomorrow night, which we're still going to anyway, but I doubt things will be changed.

 

My guess is that the fire can't be reignited, however much we both want it. If there's any hope for us, do let me know how as I care about this girl so much. If it's just done-done, though, let me know also as I need to know what to expect. Thanks all.

[ChrisMac]

Chris you are 36 with no money and no house (i.e. mortgage). You have spent thousands and thousands on two long distance relationships. I don't think your ex has treated you well, but this really is about you. U have to get your life sorted. Being 36 and having no money is a BIG problem..It's clear you have made some bad decisions. Now is the time to focus on 'why'. The patterns of your last two long distance relationships is distrubing. I know you followed your heart and were probably overly generous, but you are behaving like a 19 year old with no respondsibilities.

 

Fluorescent, I very much appreciate the very direct feedback, but I guess i didn't explain well enough -- my finances are fine. I had made a huge personal investment in going back to grad school, which wiped out a ton of savings, but this experience enabled me to get a great job here in her city, which will be paying me more than I've ever made, and will enable me to quickly re-save what I spent on school. A great deal of effort over the past two years has somehow paid off.

 

In the interim between school and the new job I also landed three private freelance projects which together netted me enough to comfortably start my new life here in her city. The only problem was that these weren't paid until mid-January, not in time for me to fly back for New Year's Eve. As I didn't have the cash in hand, and I needed to make sure I had enough to start the new life in the case one of the projects fell through, an extra outlay of over a grand on a flight for 2-3 days for New Year's just wasn't doable, however much I wanted to see her. And she seemed to understand. I have plenty of cash in the bank right now.

 

Her behaviour is very odd but it's pretty easy to figure out. Her ex tried to get her back. A little later she goes quiet and argumentative when you speak. She then quits her job and then goes cold on you. Something is CLEARLY a miss here, yet you seem so oblivious to her erractic behaviour. Most people would have been VERY concerned when she quit her job (In this economy) with no valid reason and has become so argumentative before you moved. Yet you didn't really question her? (there are major communication issues here) You wrote about the hardships of maintaining your last long distant relationship, yet you make the exact same mistake a year later?

 

I 100% knew her behavior was erratic, and brought up all these issues with her. The deal with her ex is that at the time she thought I was losing interest in her, and she didn't know if I'd be around to rely on. I made sure she knew I was still as into her as ever, and she told the ex off. Not great, it's a warning sign for me that she kept him around "just in case", but what else could I do than drop the topic? I was and am extremely concerned when she just up and quit her job, but she insists that for the industry she's in, she'll be able to find at least an equal role in a few weeks. As for why she was argumentative, she apologized multiple times but said it was just the stress of the LDR was wearing on her. "I've never done this before like you have" she said more than once.

 

In the end, yes, these are all warning signs but I'm not sure what lessons need to be learned. And when I'm taking jobs in different countries, LDR's are bound to happen. My last one had no end in sight, this one was two months with only two weeks at the start where I couldn't travel. By the time the money came in it didn't make sense to spend rent on January when I could just ride out the last few weeks at my parents' place and then get to my new city a week before starting at my new job, which is what I did.

 

I guess what I'm just looking for is advice on how to handle the situation. Given what I've explained, what did I do wrong, if anything? And is it reparable or should I already be planning on trying to move on?

Edited February 13, 2012 by ChrisMac

[Dark Phoenix]

You were a rebound, you didn't do anything wrong. For you I think the best course of action is to move on.

 

If you would like me to point out everything from your original post, Id be more then happy to point it out to you.

 

One of the things you need to focus on when you move on is stop chasing the instant gratification of infatuations. This is what causes you to get into this type of trouble. At your age, you should be out dating and creating a long platonic friendship that turns into a romantic relationship. This is delayed gratification.

[ChrisMac]

You were a rebound, you didn't do anything wrong. For you I think the best course of action is to move on.

 

If you would like me to point out everything from your original post, Id be more then happy to point it out to you.

 

One of the things you need to focus on when you move on is stop chasing the instant gratification of infatuations. This is what causes you to get into this type of trouble. At your age, you should be out dating and creating a long platonic friendship that turns into a romantic relationship. This is delayed gratification.

 

How many rebounds does a girl need before it's not a rebound, but just something going wrong? She dated two guys for a month each between me and the ex who tried to get her back.

 

And kindly explain what you mean by "delayed gratification". I've built long platonic relationships with a half-dozen girls in the past two years, one of which turned into a romantic relationship that I finally ended due to lack of compatibility, the other she decided that she wanted no more than friendship.

[Dark Phoenix]

How many rebounds does a girl need before it's not a rebound, but just something going wrong? She dated two guys for a month each between me and the ex who tried to get her back.

 

And kindly explain what you mean by "delayed gratification". I've built long platonic relationships with a half-dozen girls in the past two years, one of which turned into a romantic relationship that I finally ended due to lack of compatibility, the other she decided that she wanted no more than friendship.

 

Her feelings for her ex came back from the story you posted. Happens all the time.

 

One of the things you learn as you cycle through the stages of emotional maturity is that if something seems too easy and requires little work at the beginning, its probably going to hurt you in the long run. This is what I refer to as instant gratification. Its fullfilling in the beginning but as time goes on you realize that it was a dumb idea. This is what a rebound is or what infatuations are.

 

Delayed gratification on the other hand is like you going back to school and investing time in yourself which pays off for itself hugely in the end. You have to put effort into yourself over a long period of time but the rewards at the end are greater then what you invested in the beginning.

 

Now put this in perspective of your last relationship. You threw everything you had at her at the beginning. You took her for her word but didn't listen to her. Anyone that brings up the ex and says no they will not go back to them are convincing themselves that they wont. This is called self talk. After time you saw how much space was created between you and her and this had nothing to do with you going back home, this would have happened regardless even if you stayed with her. She was infatuated with you but attached to her ex.

 

Infatuation - instant gratification

Attachment - delayed gratification

 

Delayed gratification always wins over instant gratification

 

Even if her ex wasn't in the picture, she still had to grieve the attachment loss and she can't do that while in a relationship with you.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Dark Phoenix

[ChrisMac]

Her feelings for her ex came back from the story you posted. Happens all the time.

 

Even if her ex wasn't in the picture, she still had to grieve the attachment loss and she can't do that while in a relationship with you.

 

Okay, you lost me a little bit in discussing the girl I am currently (or was) seeing and my last ex, but how do you know when a grieving process on the last ex is over? Through December she seemed tremendously excited about us being together, crying every time I left, begging to be back together sooner. When the ex got back in touch with her, she seemed to be rattled because they had both previously agreed to break up, which she was fine with as she knew they weren't compatible, but then eight months later he began sending one email after another insisting that he'd fix all the things that had been wrong before.

 

She thought through this and in the end still chose me. If I'm clear on what you're saying, she then lost interest in me over the next few weeks as she realized she wasn't in fact over the ex? Does this make the good times we had together in December less legitimate? If yes, I truly will never understand how women work.

[Dark Phoenix]

Okay, you lost me a little bit in discussing the girl I am currently (or was) seeing and my last ex, but how do you know when a grieving process on the last ex is over? Through December she seemed tremendously excited about us being together, crying every time I left, begging to be back together sooner.

 

Instant gratification on her part, while you were there, she did not have to deal with the attachment or her feelings of her previous attachment. She didn't have to grieve that relationship. She can compartmentalize those feelings until the infatuation wears off and she either chases it somewhere else or deals with the attachment on her own.

 

When the ex got back in touch with her, she seemed to be rattled because they had both previously agreed to break up, which she was fine with as she knew they weren't compatible, but then eight months later he began sending one email after another insisting that he'd fix all the things that had been wrong before. She thought through this and in the end still chose me. If I'm clear on what you're saying, she then lost interest in me over the next few weeks as she realized she wasn't in fact over the ex?

 

Dont listen to the words that she chose to use about her past relationship, only the feelings and the actions associated with the words. This is why people get trapped in rebound all the time because they focus only on the "Meaning" of the words being spoken. She used the word "Fine" The word fine for women means "I am right you are wrong" so she was referring to her ex being wrong.

 

Its not that selfish as you make it sound to be. She did not lose interest in you. Her feelings for her ex's just reemerged and they are stronger then the feelings for you. As a guy, I have done the same thing and compartmentalized my feelings to avoid dealing with a loss.

 

Does this make the good times we had together in December less legitimate? If yes, I truly will never understand how women work.

 

This is EQ (Emotional Intelligence) not IQ (Logical Intelligence). It happens on both sides of the sex field, its not just women, men do this too, its all about understanding yourself first before you try to understand others.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Dark Phoenix

[ChrisMac]

its all about understanding yourself first before you try to understand others.

 

So I'm looking for next steps. You're suggesting that I should give this up without a fight, move on knowing it wasn't me, it was just bad timing, if I'd been in there first for her to develop these feelings with the opposite might have happened.

 

I don't know if I buy this. This give-up mentality that seems so pervasive on these boards may be the result of real experience, but it's sad and disheartening. Most people don't really ever 100% get over someone they once loved, yet are still able to move on and find happiness.

 

This situation seems like it has more to it... though right now I can't see any way through it other than accepting what you're saying may be true, and finding a way to pull back and give her her space while still being friendly and available.

[Dark Phoenix]

So I'm looking for next steps. You're suggesting that I should give this up without a fight, move on knowing it wasn't me, it was just bad timing, if I'd been in there first for her to develop these feelings with the opposite might have happened.

 

I don't know if I buy this. This give-up mentality that seems so pervasive on these boards may be the result of real experience, but it's sad and disheartening. Most people don't really ever 100% get over someone they once loved, yet are still able to move on and find happiness.

 

This situation seems like it has more to it... though right now I can't see any way through it other than accepting what you're saying may be true, and finding a way to pull back and give her her space while still being friendly and available.

 

Yes, I am suggesting that. You dont have to do it. I am the biggest pro - second chance supporter on this forum. If its there and I see it, I point it out. For you, you were a rebound. You can hang around and wait for her to look for another rebound or you can start your new job work on developing friendships that have the possibility to blossom into more.

 

I agree with your assessment of most people dont really get over 100% of someone they onced love. This is actually the truth for real long term relationships.

 

Do what you think is right for you, no one is going to stop you, but take a step back and look at yourself and give yourself time to process your own feelings of this relationship.

[ChrisMac]

Do what you think is right for you, no one is going to stop you, but take a step back and look at yourself and give yourself time to process your own feelings of this relationship.

 

Well, turns out it doesn't matter now, she wants to meet for coffee at noon and then cancel the valentine's event tonight. Guess that is that (wipes hands). So glad I put so much effort into it over the past three months.

[Thatguyintx]

ChrisMac,

 

Sorry, I can feel your loss and definitely hear the tone of bitterness in your last response.

 

Look very critically at the relationship at it's current state and figure out if that is what you want long term. Tough thing to do. At least for me. I remember the "good old days" instead of the here and now.

[ChrisMac]

ChrisMac,

 

Sorry, I can feel your loss and definitely hear the tone of bitterness in your last response.

 

Look very critically at the relationship at it's current state and figure out if that is what you want long term. Tough thing to do. At least for me. I remember the "good old days" instead of the here and now.

 

Very good call.

 

So I went, it sucked, but I actually feel a lot better. She insisted that her feelings when we were together before Xmas were genuine, that a couple times then she came close to saying the L-word but didn't want to freak me out, that she's never been more into a guy. "You really are the best boyfriend I've ever had", etc., etc. But then in January she went through some tough times, quit her job, her ex repeatedly tried to get her back, bringing up old feelings that freaked her out (yes, Dark Phoenix), and so on, just a total life meltdown, and I think right now she's just in a place where she needs to be alone and do nothing but get her **** back in order. My guess is that when she looks in a mirror right now she has no love of the girl she sees, and when a guy like me comes along saying you're great, let's make long term plans, and so on, she has no respect for him. I'm still not sure it was a rebound thing as I believe her when she says she can't handle anyone in her life right now, but who knows.

 

I left it on good terms, I think, saying it's okay, you just need to be alone for awhile and focus on getting your life back together, don't do anything stupid, goodbye. Surprisingly it's kind of a relief for me to have it all out on the table and done with. She asked if it'd be okay if she called from time to time and I said sure, but deleted all her contact info and won't be putting any effort into it.

 

So that's that. Next question. Anyone free in London tonight and want to go with me to this goddamn Medieval Banquet "Valentine's Masquerade Ball" I bought tickets to? I was really looking forward to it. :/

Edited February 14, 2012 by ChrisMac

[ChrisMac]

So just found that she stuck a card in my bag with the following message: "Baby, I must be crazy to do that, I probably will regret it in a few days... I am sorry for hurting both of us, but the 'lost feeling' needs to appear again. I will find the way, I'll try... cause I know that what we had was very special. I hope you will forgive me."

 

So... she's a headcase.

[ChrisMac]

Very good, very thoughtful post, Flo. Nothing you describe sounds off. Thank you, I plan to follow it to the letter.

 

(Though I still don't agree with you about the finances... I was never broke, just couldn't add a $1200 flight into a tight budget before the money from my new projects came in... I now have $12K in the bank and this is before my first paycheck on a great new job. )

[ChrisMac]

Ugh, this is where I get lost in all this "NC" stuff.

 

So she just texted me saying "Hey, how are you doing? I'm sorry to bother you but really need to know that you're okay. I feel terrible." I just wrote back "Hey! No worries, I'm fine, love." and got no response, but now wonder whether she'll interpret this as me not giving a damn about her anymore (she flips between highly insecure and overconfident every five minutes). What do you think, is this enough or should I say more?

[ChrisMac]

You say nothing Chris. You always say nothing....Read back over your thread(s) and actally absorb what is being said to you...

 

I'm sorry, it's just not me. I'm not that kind of guy, and I never will be. I have no reason to not at least be cordial if someone reaches out. Yes, I can always improve myself. I just a little take offense to everyone's suggestion that I need to spend a year reading self-help books when I'm just trying to make it work with one great but messed up girl I've invested a lot of time into, though otherwise I kinda like me right now enough. Job's great, new city's a blast and already making new friends. This one thing just didn't work out.

 

Yes, she needs to go off on her own and fix her own life and not drag me down. Doesn't mean I'm going to say more than a few words back if she messages me or ever initiate something, but I simply refuse to just be so cruel as to utterly ignore it when someone I cared and still care about reaches out.

[Dark Phoenix]

Everything I posted in this thread is a 100% spot on.

 

I know what shes going through, Ive done it. Both ends, hers and yours. Everyone does this or should do this in their life. Its all the same pattern.

 

Now for YOU and YOUR healing, you need to go NC and move on. For you not to go NC and move on would be pure masochism on your part and you will only end up hurting yourself.

 

So just found that she stuck a card in my bag with the following message: "Baby, I must be crazy to do that, I probably will regret it in a few days... I am sorry for hurting both of us, but the 'lost feeling' needs to appear again. I will find the way, I'll try... cause I know that what we had was very special. I hope you will forgive me."

 

Shes found her path again. She's no longer lost. You are just not on her path.

 

"Hey, how are you doing? I'm sorry to bother you but really need to know that you're okay. I feel terrible."

 

This is guilt for the way she used you. This is the worst guilt in the world to overcome.

 

I just wrote back "Hey! No worries, I'm fine, love." and got no response

 

You relieved her guilt, no need for her to respond

[ChrisMac]

Then you will stay involved in her personal battle at your expense. Classic codependent behaviour Chris. Doing right by your partner/ex and not doing what is right for you..

 

Enjoy the roller coaster journey and ensuing train wreck. I have to leave your thread as I can no longer help someone, who doesn't want to help himself..Take care and all the luck in the world. You will need it. I will post one last post and what you should do. In 6 months/1 year's time you will post back here regretting not following my advice. Your emotional logic is ruling you normal logic and this will end up severely hurting you in the long run. Some people have to learn lessons the hard way. It seems at 36 you are still one of those people Chris. I have to wonder why.......

 

Hey, there's no reason to take personal offense, I'm just in a situation that I'm unfamiliar with. As much as you refer to my prior ex, I initiated that breakup, have accepted the outcome and can't blame her for anything. I feel good about all of that now, and as difficult as it was at the time, think we both made the right decisions.

 

If you're saying that she'll rope me back in and this will just go on and on, that's entirely fair and I appreciate the warning. I do still think that -- if she was entirely healthy and happy -- she and I could be a good match, but she's not so we're not. Therefore the only solution is to either not respond entirely, or give her the time she needs (up to half a year or more) to work through her issues, neither of which is helped by me talking to her now. That's fair.

 

But as I have a hard time being so rude as to just ignore people, wouldn't it be a fair compromise then to just kindly tell her that I care about her, but I think it's best for both of us that she avoid contacting me for some time, until she feels like her life's in a much better position and she's ready for something real?

[ChrisMac]

I don't always agree with you DP but I do here...She needs to fix whats wrong with her and you need to give her the space to do it. She is all over the place Chris. We are using normal logic and can see it how much of a mess she is You are blinded by so much and ignorning ALL the warnings signs and red flags. You are as big a mess as she is I am starting to think. A healthy person would have detached/not moved before the new year..

 

We see you heading for the crash...It's gonna get messy....Mark my words..

 

This is where you're losing me, Fluo. I'm not sure you really follow what I write. There was nothing wrong with us before the new year. Everything was puppies and kittens and hugs and great sex and kind words through the time we had to be apart after the start of 2012. There was not the slightest relationship issue until it had been over six weeks without seeing each other, and then it seemed to be kicked off by the ex coming back. Which yes, is a huge warning sign. She clearly has issues she needs to get over, and I am aware it's no good for me to be around until these are dealt with.

 

As I just said but you didn't mention, I am 100% fine with telling her I don't think we should stay in contact until she fixes what's wrong with her. And if that never happens, oh well, it's NC for good, I'll find someone else. I just won't ignore her entirely if she reaches out. If she's doing it to get over her guilt? Great, I'll let her get over her guilt! Why would I work to make it worse when she's already got so much else to deal with? This does not mean I'm trying to get back into her life right now.

[Dark Phoenix]

Id be careful labeling him co-dependent here.

 

I dont think he is by any means, just hurt and still in love.

[ChrisMac]

Id be careful labeling him co-dependent here.

 

I dont think he is by any means, just hurt and still in love.

 

Yes! Thank you. And right now I'm not even sure if I'd call it "love" or just "hope she gets better". And by the way, I'm standing right here.

 

Someone else just wrote this:

 

I don't know but shouldn't it be as simple as: "I leave you completely alone. I deserve someone who really wants to be with me. Make up your mind completely and let me know when you are sure. I know it won't be tomorrow and probably not in 2 months. Take your time. Bye!"

 

I think that's entirely fair.

[ChrisMac]

Chris you are the one 'losing' me. I hear and see exactly what you are saying. U are in denial and kidding yourself...I have told you what's happening. So has DP. Actually absorb what we are telling you..Below is what happened within your relationship..I'd bet any money she is back with her ex, or in a new relationship in less then 3 months. She feels guilty cause she knows she should have spelt it out in clear and bold letters that you shouldn't have moved to her city, but chickened out. Yes she hinted at it but you ignored the messages. Having said that the person to blame here is you. You couldn't get bigger brighter red beacons!!! ->

 

Man, I think it's time to agree to disagree. I'm not going back to her. I'm not playing her games. That said, she was incredibly excited about me coming here. We both were. She gave absolutely zero warning signs until the ex showed back up mid-January. At that point (and yes I posted here about it) I panicked, but within two days it blew over. It was just a surprise to her and she didn't know how to tell me but finally did. Did it start a chain reaction of conflicting emotions that finally resulted in the loss of feelings and breakup? Probably. But don't tell me she never wanted me here -- she may have been containing unresolved grief back in early December -- but at that time we were both immensely excited.

 

If she texts again explain you are hurt and need space. Explain its clear that she has personal issues she needs to be resolved. Ask for 2-3 months and explain that you will not reply if contacted as you need to heal.

 

If you meet her for coffee after 3 months contact you will both be wiser people..

 

Exactly! That's all I've been saying. I just think ignoring a message completely with no warning verges on immature and causes more drama than it's worth.

[ChrisMac]

And to add to that, this isn't even about me being hurt or needing space. This is now just more about me realizing that she's more damaged than I realized, and feeling silly for investing so much into it for the past six months. I don't blame myself as there were no warning signs until after it was way too late to turn back, but I feel bad for the girl, care for her, and hope she finds a way to turn things around. In the meantime I'll be fine.

[Dark Phoenix]

....... fair enough

[Dark Phoenix]

Fluorescent, you are on a path to self destruction in this thread, just making you aware!

 

Let him be lost for a while and try to figure things out on his own. He's pretty smart and has seen some stuff and posted stuff that I missed in my own breakup.