Are multiple firearms in the house a dealbreaker for you?

February 12, 2012

If by very high you mean just over half that of the US and just over 1/3rd that of the US, then yes you are right.

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_of_guns_per_capita_by_country

Switzerland is still fourth on the list, and it beats many less gun filled countries including Canada when it comes to murder per capita. Same with several other high ranking gun countries. Which proves having lots of guns has little to do with how much murder and crime there is.

February 12, 2012

Back up and read. I said hand guns. Canada, Sweden and Switzerland do not permit casual ownershiop of hand guns. Canadians can own a rifle (not A47s,etc.) to their hearts content. However, must be secured in a locked cabinet. Firearms course required, license to purchase ammunition, etc. (same as Sweden, Switzerland,etc.). No handgun in the drawer or AK47 tucked behind the door.

It's mind boggling that a guy would invite a woman to his house and have an assault weapon showing. Quite 'the personality' to own a gun. As stated, I'd tell my daughter to run as far as possible from a guy like that. Americans can embrace him as a good futurte son-in-law as much as they want....a sick puppy perpetuating a violent sick society.

I agreed with you that is was a bad idea to leave it around while bringing a girl home for the first time, I'm arguing with some of your ideas when it comes to guns in general. I remember from reading yesterday that Switzerland does allow people to buy a handgun with a license so I'm not sure where you got that idea from.

February 12, 2012

Guys, keep it on topic maybe?

This thread isnt about gun crime, or gun laws.

Its about whether owning a gun would be a deal breaker in dating. Leave it at that or do you want Tony to close the thread?

Threads get run off topic way too often. Lets chill sometimes.

The conversation is evolving, nothing wrong with that. Besides the political forum has been too quiet since Engadget stopped posting.

I've seen a Desert Eagle go off accidentally in someone's hand in a random direction. I felt more unsafe at that moment than at pretty much any other time in my life.

My neighbor fancied himself an electrician and ended up wiring his house improperly so it caught fire and burned down. I was awoken one morning to the sound of my other neighbor yelling and smashing windows trying to get the animals out of the house. Luckily the firefighters arrived in a timely order or my place might have gone up in flames too. Getting rid of guns wont make other peoples idiocy endangering us go away, what it will do is deny that woman in FitChicks story the ability to protect herself when a stalker tries to break into her house.

February 12, 2012

Switzerland is still fourth on the list, and it beats many less gun filled countries including Canada when it comes to murder per capita. Same with several other high ranking gun countries. Which proves having lots of guns has little to do with how much murder and crime there is.

I think you'll find crime began to rise, or at least incarceration when we, (the US) began to turn incarceration over to the privet sector. The US leads all industrialized countries in incarceration per capita with the possible exception of Russia because of how they deal with and report incarcerated people. But I'm getting way off topic.

You can legally buy a hand gun in the US by simply showing up at a gun show with a credit card & cash in almost every state. In the state I live in now my concealed weapons permit required a simple back ground check & $25 & is good for several years. There is no required safety course or qualifying on a gun range. I grew up around guns, I was taught gun safety from a very early age & I still learned a lot at a gun safety & shooting course I took just a couple years ago. Yet any dumb ars who's only experience with a gun is from watch movies or playing video games can by lethal weapon with few questions, if any, asked. Another reason I own a gun is because of all the people out who have one.

And even with that it wont keep guns away from criminals but it will at least provide some basic gun safety & shooting experience.

Cars provide transportation & in most states require extensive training & practice before being issued a license, yet Guns intent purpose is to kill, either people or prey, and you can pick one up in most states with no prior training or experience except for the guy behind the counter showing you how to load it & chamber a round.

But we are getting way off topic.

February 12, 2012

The conversation is evolving, nothing wrong with that.

WRONG!!

From the TOS:

In order to ensure that off-topic threads do not take attention away from on-topic threads, we have created a special area for these threads and expect that all off-topic conversations take place within that area. Precedence is given to on-topic discussions and responses to on-topic threads should at all times stay on-topic...

It is important that all participants recognize that tangents started within threads of discussion should be avoided at all times. All replies to any thread should relate directly to the first post in that thread.

February 12, 2012

The USA will continue to have by far the highest rate of death by firearms among western democracies for at least another couple of generations. Citizens accidently shooting family members while awaiting the government to stamp out freedom. Be afraid...be very afraid.

And you'll have the highest death rate by bears per capita, who cares? Why aren't you doing anything to be proactive about that? Aren't you ashamed your bear death rate is so much higher than any of the other western nations? If my kid went up to Canada and ended up getting killed by a bear I would be outraged that you have done nothing to address this problem.

See, If you want to ignore all other factors involved it's easy to manipulate statistics into seemingly valid criticism. I could go on and on about how much higher your bear death rate is than Mexico's, like you did with us and Japan. It's total nonsense since Japan has pretty much banned guns and there are few bears in Mexico.

Not and AK 47 or a hand gun.

hint...the story is the 'exception' thus why it is a story. 'Man bites dog'.

The thousands of Americans killed by accidental firearms death every year don't make it to the headlines.

The logic of using this story to defend gun ownership is akin to those who defend not using seat belts because some guy was thrown from the car and survived when it was hit by a train.....or defending smoking because grandpa smoked a pack a day and lived to be a 100.

There were 29,771 firearm deaths in the US and 7,653 firearm deaths in the 22 other western countries countries (totalpopulation 1.6 times the USA)

Check out these actually meaningful statistics.

The accidental gun death rate has been falling since 1930 and US accidental gun deaths per year were down to 613 by 2007, out of the 301,579,895 people in the USA, according to the CDC. For comparison, there were 29,846 accidental deaths by poisoning in 2007, again according to the CDC.

http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm

Zenobia posted a link earlier that mentioned there were an estimated 108,000 defensive uses of a weapon (the low end estimate). That girl in FitChicks link that you are so quick to discount has a lot more company than those who die accidentally from a gun. You mentioned earlier in a post that people are unreasonably paranoid from watching the news but the numbers say the exact opposite. You are paranoid that guns are bad and need to be banned because defensive uses are under reported while any violent crime and accidental shootings are always front page news.

February 12, 2012

WRONG!!

From the TOS:

In order to ensure that off-topic threads do not take attention away from on-topic threads, we have created a special area for these threads and expect that all off-topic conversations take place within that area. Precedence is given to on-topic discussions and responses to on-topic threads should at all times stay on-topic...

It is important that all participants recognize that tangents started within threads of discussion should be avoided at all times. All replies to any thread should relate directly to the first post in that thread.

Well the OP brought up having guns laying around the house, so it isn't really off topic. I think everyone's in agreement that it isn't a great idea to do that so we could either let the thread die or follow the more interesting path that cropped up.

And wouldn't you be more off topic than I am by bringing up the TOS in a thread about guns laying around the house?

Edited February 12, 2012 by gaius

February 12, 2012

And you'll have the highest death rate by bears per capita, who cares? Why aren't you doing anything to be proactive about that? Aren't you ashamed your bear death rate is so much higher than any of the other western nations? If my kid went up to Canada and ended up getting killed by a bear I would be outraged that you have done nothing to address this problem.

See, If you want to ignore all other factors involved it's easy to manipulate statistics into seemingly valid criticism. I could go on and on about how much higher your bear death rate is than Mexico's, like you did with us and Japan. It's total nonsense since Japan has pretty much banned guns and there are few bears in Mexico.

Check out these actually meaningful statistics.

The accidental gun death rate has been falling since 1930 and US accidental gun deaths per year were down to 613 by 2007, out of the 301,579,895 people in the USA, according to the CDC. For comparison, there were 29,846 accidental deaths by poisoning in 2007, again according to the CDC.

http://www.tincher.to/deaths.htm

Zenobia posted a link earlier that mentioned there were an estimated 108,000 defensive uses of a weapon (the low end estimate). That girl in FitChicks link that you are so quick to discount has a lot more company than those who die accidentally from a gun. You mentioned earlier in a post that people are unreasonably paranoid from watching the news but the numbers say the exact opposite. You are paranoid that guns are bad and need to be banned because defensive uses are under reported while any violent crime and accidental shootings are always front page news.

I have to agree with you. Criminal use of a fire arm is more of a threat than accidental death or injury and both; owning a gun is one way & one CHOICE in proactive defense & Gun safety is the proactive choice to greatly reduce accidents with guns. Realistically we are not going to rid American streets of guns but we can pass laws that would make gun owners more responsible by better training, including regular qualifying possibly.

Edited February 12, 2012 by oldguy

February 12, 2012

I have to agree with you. Criminal use of a fire arm is more of a threat than accidental death or injury and both; owning a gun is one way & one CHOICE in proactive defense & Gun safety is the proactive choice to greatly reduce accidents with guns. Realistically we are not going to rid American streets of guns but we can pass laws that would make gun owners more responsible by better training, including regular qualifying possibly.

There are actually gun laws that are not enforced. In college I did a speech on gun control and found out most criminals obtain guns illegally. At that time 22% of all crimes involved a firearm. I remember back in the 90s American Rifleman had an article showing laws for people that illegally sold guns. Just actually enforcing the laws is enough.

February 12, 2012

There are actually gun laws that are not enforced. In college I did a speech on gun control and found out most criminals obtain guns illegally. At that time 22% of all crimes involved a firearm. I remember back in the 90s American Rifleman had an article showing laws for people that illegally sold guns. Just actually enforcing the laws is enough.

I'm surprised it's only 22%.

In the state I'm in now they're attempting to simplify gun laws because there so confusing that some state judges have complained.

I bought a rifle several years ago at a sporting goods store. All that was requires was the purchase price & 2 forms of ID with my address. I only had one so they sold me a single day fishing license in which they copied my address to from my drivers license & used both of those for the required 2 forms of ID. After all of that I walked out of the store 20 minutes after walking in with a new rifle, a scope, a banana clip & ammunition. That was it for rifles & shotguns in that state.

February 12, 2012

Wow, I must say I am a bit surprised the reaction this thread has received....a couple of things:

1. Yes, leaving a firearm, especially an AK 47, in sight is not a good idea when having female company over. It was not intentional, but regardless, lesson learned.

2. Yes, the correct term is "magazine" not "clip". I simply referrenced it as such, because alot of folks unfamiliar with firearms only know one meaning for magazine. Geez who gives a s--t anyway!

3. The good news is the girl in question called and apologized for overreacting, and I apologized for making her feel uncomfortable. Had a good conversation, and have planned another date.

February 12, 2012

Wow, I must say I am a bit surprised the reaction this thread has received....a couple of things:
1. Yes, leaving a firearm, especially an AK 47, in sight is not a good idea when having female company over. It was not intentional, but regardless, lesson learned.
2. Yes, the correct term is "magazine" not "clip". I simply referrenced it as such, because alot of folks unfamiliar with firearms only know one meaning for magazine. Geez who gives a s--t anyway!
There is a difference between a clip & a magazine & I for one was using the term clip incorrectly. But as you said; "who gives a s***t.

3. The good news is the girl in question called and apologized for overreacting, and I apologized for making her feel uncomfortable. Had a good conversation, and have planned another date.

Good for you. How many dates before you make your move... and ask her to the shooting range?

February 12, 2012

Thanks oldguy, hopefully soon. I will say though, I have dated women who just were not comfortable around firearms, and had no desire to learn how to shoot, and I have always been respectful of that.

February 12, 2012

Geez, it must be some American thing.

Where I'm from, we don't have 'em. We also have less gun crime.

I suppose if I were an American girl, that would raise some questions. Like how safe the neighbourhood was, and who this guy associated with

February 12, 2012

Sadly, most of Europe has been mostly pacified by liberal views.

What's wrong with pacification when it comes to guns?

February 12, 2012

I was raised in the SE United States. I can shoot a gun (my father always had guns in the house, though the parents I lived with never did). I've been hunting many, many times, in fact. But even I would find THAT many guns, and guns as intense as an AK 47, to be problematic. It seems extreme to me, and I'm not a fan of extremism. One or two guns for hunting or sport, I'd get. That many guns, unless it was some kind of historical collection, I don't understand, nor do I really understand guns for personal safety. They don't honestly make you any safer in most cases.

Hubby was raised in SoCal and doesn't like guns. I don't think he'd be comfortable with me having a gun if I wanted one. I'm not super comfortable with them being in my house, in general, but I definitely wouldn't be comfortable with them outside of a gun safe, unless they were unloaded and for display purposes only (with the ammo, if there was any, in a safe).

I've lived in countries where personal guns were outlawed (only law enforcement had guns) and it's lovely and does feel much safer, but the U.S. is never going to be that way. You can't get the guns back and you cannot change a culture that's been so entrenched with the idea of personal armament.

February 12, 2012

I would be really turned-off after seeing an AK in a guy's house. I don't like guns. I would think twice about dating a guy who owned even one gun, let alone more.

February 12, 2012

I believe in self-defence, and if that means having a gun, so be it as far as I am concerned. With some of the things I plan to do in the next couple of decades, I may need a few weapons! lol

February 12, 2012

Geez, it must be some American thing.

Where I'm from, we don't have 'em. We also have less gun crime.

I suppose if I were an American girl, that would raise some questions. Like how safe the neighbourhood was, and who this guy associated with

Actually, I'm pretty certain there is no correlation between gun control and overall crime levels, and the nine states in the US with the lowest crime rates are all right-to-carry states.

I don't understand why there'd be less crime if people couldn't defend themselves? You really think a criminal won't get his hands on a gun regardless? That's why they're criminals, because they do illegal things. How naive.

I remember reading from another totally unrelated forum that a poster had noticed a sign outside of a restaurant where he lived (forgot where) - it said no guns allowed. That sounds like they're inviting thugs in, as if they're saying "we have no protection, come on in and hold us all at gun point!"

I don't think that owning firearms should be a big deal. It's not like people don't have to go through a screening process and (I'm assuming) be trained sufficiently to use them. One shouldn't be so ignorant to assume that they're redneck nut jobs. I sure as hell would own one for my own protection..

February 12, 2012

What is this screening and training ? The one that advises to purchase an AK47 assualt weapon and have it visible and unsecured in your home?

I wasn't addressing that. That was OP's choice to make, which may or may not have been a good decision. If he's got it legally (can an AK be owned legally? I don't know), what does it matter?

If he doesn't, then I can see the problem. But you can't see the irrelevance of a ban on fire arms? If it's currently illegal.. Well, he's got it anyway and he COULD use it if he's mentally unstable. So why stop mentally stable citizens from protecting themselves?

Criminals will get them regardless. I was addressing the dude who claimed that states/countries with fewer gun owners experience less crime, and it just isn't true. What's your point?

To own a proper firearm, aren't you supposed to have a background check to ensure that you're a law-abiding, mentally healthy citizen who wishes to simply have protection from criminals? Perhaps training isn't necessary, but I'm assuming it would be, or it's at least.. encouraged.. lol

Is it not a constitutional right to bear arms? I'm against the idea of the US government trying to take that away, and I've never owned a gun in my life.

I'm all for preserving the individual's rights, and fear mongering will only lead to fewer rights as they take more of them away in order to "keep us safe"... Ignorant people who don't know the facts make it easier for officials to twist things around and make it seem as though gun control would change anything.

Edited February 12, 2012 by ScreamingTrees

February 12, 2012

Knife crime has been steadily rising in the UK. Should they ban knives? Only allow ground beef instead of steak?

If you were a criminal, where would you go to successfully commit crimes -- a town that banned guns or maybe this town?

Edited February 12, 2012 by FitChick

February 12, 2012

Just FYI...in my State....anyone can legally purchase an assault rifle. Owning or modifying it to give it automatic capacity violates federal U.S law which obviously trumps State and/or local ordinances. We also have a concealed carry law, and every law abiding citizen who is authorized to carry has thus far, not been arrested or cited for violating this privilege. Also our crime rate is way lower, than urban areas back east who have some of the tightest gun restrictions in the Union. The visceral reaction this thread has promulgated just shows how transparent the cultural disconnect is on this issue. Foreigners and many Americans "don't get it". The last American politician, Al Gore who took on the gun lobby nationally, lost the 2000 election, because of it. Could not even win his home state where gun ownership is popular. Bill Clinton and other top Democrats admitted as much. Notice how Obama wont even touch the issue even when he had both houses of Congress? It is what it is.

February 12, 2012

Sure matters in my country. I can't purchase an AK47 and keep a weapon in an unlocked secured condition.

Somehow Canadians, Swedes, Australians, etc. don't have less freedom because there are less AK47 assualt weapons propped up behind doors. Your Constitution might be considered a god-given religious document in a Bible thumping country so happy you are so enthralled with it in the 21st century...accounts for the uplifting quality of your society and political system.

I will be the first to admit that the Constitution has some serious flaws. For one the fact that it includes the powers of eminent domain in the fifth amendment which is a power no government should have (not to mention the fact that it's been abused over the years). But see the thing is the Constitution doesn't give me rights, the founders didn't own them in the first place. So even if the Constitution were to be abolished today, the right to bear arms would still exist. There should be no restrictions on anyone's right to own any kind of weapon they wish.

It's a pretty simple concept, if you don't like guns don't own them. Otherwise keep out of other people's decision to own guns.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Queen Zenobia

February 13, 2012

Knife crime has been steadily rising in the UK. Should they ban knives? Only allow ground beef instead of steak?

Yes, it has. Sadly the glorification of violence has a strong influence on our youth.

Still, as the wiki link below states: The United Kingdom (to include England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland) has one of the most restrictive sets of laws of any developed nation governing an individual's right to import, purchase, possess, sell, and carry knives.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knife_legislation#United_Kingdom

We have some misguided individuals (often children) - who tend to spout the same kind of 'everyone else has got one' paranoia/argument stated here a lot - who illegally carry knives. Often, what's been missing in their less-than-perfect lives, is an adult who will take the time to make them feel safe, show them how to stay safe, and explain to them why being ready to stab someone else, 24/7, is wrong. They, at least, know they have no right to be carrying a weapon.

Personally, I'd rather take my chances on the inner-city streets of Britain than those of the U.S. And I'd rather be up against someone wielding a knife than a gun. (Have been in this situation, as it happens, and dealt with it.) I can't really understand why someone wouldn't.

February 13, 2012

got 1 gun beside my bed,"the judge" i sleep real well.

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