TheBigQuestion Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I believe that sexual repression is unhealthy. I think that the United States is a very sexually repressed, sexually shaming, puritanical and prohibitionist society, and this is one of the reasons that people here are reacting to porn the way that they do. This ranges from the (IMO) insanely anti-porn folks here on LS all the way to the porn obsessed guys they are ranting about. In other countries where sexuality has traditionally been viewed as more "normal," I don't think that there are nearly as many huge issues about porn (or about sexuality in general). I have spent a lot of time in Holland, since my ex husband's father lived there. There, sex is "out" rather than hidden. There are mostly naked prostitutes in windows on the street. Nudity in advertisements is normal and not shocking. People aren't terrified and obsessively worshipful of boobs. There are sex museums and condom stores galore; parents don't shield their children from them. Sexuality is part of the landscape and people grow up able to accept it more easily and with more health than we are able to here (in general). Here, we sexualize EVERYTHING and pretend that it's not happening. The TV shows, clothing, ads are blatantly sexual, yet we take on a stance of horror when Janet Jackson's boob popped out or we were faced with the sexual foibles of our former President. Overall, it's a very hypocritical view of sexuality that does end up feeding into a propensity for people to sit by themselves with the "shameful" images and become jerk off addicts. Basically, I think we are sick here in the US and our relationship to porn is a reflection of that. The porn industry here is capitalizing on this sickness, and the "religious right" is tapping into it as well in order to try to get "control" of people using shame. No, porn is not making us more sexually healthy, but stomping it won't help at all. Agreed. The Janet Jackson fiasco summed up the whole American attitude purposely.
verhrzn Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I think porn *CAN* make us healthy. There is porn out there that is genuinely enjoyable to watch, and encourages women's pleasure and sexual sensations over the "falseness" of porn stars. I think porn can also be a good way of expanding someone's horizons, exploring what turns you and your partner on (what are your kinks, what do you like), and adding a little "freshness" into routine. Porn doesn't have to be disrespectful of women, full of unrealistic expectations about sex, or "fake." Porn in its current "mainstream" style isn't necessarily sexually helpful, but neither do studies show it's particularly harmful either. I firmly believe that if porn started having an expanding female audience, and there was time taken to make GOOD porn (as opposed to cheap, low-hanging-fruit porn) it could be very beneficial to adults in lots of different situations. We need to stop being scared of porn, and embrace it for its possibilities.
EnigmaticClarity Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I firmly believe that if porn started having an expanding female audience, and there was time taken to make GOOD porn First we need to boost the female libido to match that of men...we need to figure out a way to give you ladies testosterone therapy without you growing beards.
verhrzn Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 I believe that sexual repression is unhealthy. I think that the United States is a very sexually repressed, sexually shaming, puritanical and prohibitionist society, and this is one of the reasons that people here are reacting to porn the way that they do. This ranges from the (IMO) insanely anti-porn folks here on LS all the way to the porn obsessed guys they are ranting about. In other countries where sexuality has traditionally been viewed as more "normal," I don't think that there are nearly as many huge issues about porn (or about sexuality in general). I have spent a lot of time in Holland, since my ex husband's father lived there. There, sex is "out" rather than hidden. There are mostly naked prostitutes in windows on the street. Nudity in advertisements is normal and not shocking. People aren't terrified and obsessively worshipful of boobs. There are sex museums and condom stores galore; parents don't shield their children from them. Sexuality is part of the landscape and people grow up able to accept it more easily and with more health than we are able to here (in general). Here, we sexualize EVERYTHING and pretend that it's not happening. The TV shows, clothing, ads are blatantly sexual, yet we take on a stance of horror when Janet Jackson's boob popped out or we were faced with the sexual foibles of our former President. Overall, it's a very hypocritical view of sexuality that does end up feeding into a propensity for people to sit by themselves with the "shameful" images and become jerk off addicts. Basically, I think we are sick here in the US and our relationship to porn is a reflection of that. The porn industry here is capitalizing on this sickness, and the "religious right" is tapping into it as well in order to try to get "control" of people using shame. No, porn is not making us more sexually healthy, but stomping it won't help at all. Strongly agree with this. I just finished reading this fascinating book called "The Purity Myth," and it really blows your mind about American attitudes about sex, particular virginity. We put so much emphasis on sex, while also trying to hide it in deep, dark corners of "forbidden"... even the religious right uses sexuality to draw attention to themselves.
verhrzn Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 First we need to boost the female libido to match that of men...we need to figure out a way to give you ladies testosterone therapy without you growing beards. There really is not a problem with female libido... There's a problem with SUPPRESSION of the female libido. Think how much slut-shaming and Whore/Madonna attitudes there are towards females. Women are raised in this culture to enjoy sexuality only in the context of male pleasure-not for themselves. Ask most women, and they'll remember a time in their lives where they saw their girl parts as "dirty." "Good girls" don't take enjoyment from sex. They do it as something for their boyfriends... not for themselves. In such a climate, it can be pretty difficult to get your libido up and kicking, but that doesn't mean there's a problem with women's libido itself. Some cultures even believe women are more sexually insatiable than men. Some studies support this.... When shown pictures of naked men, naked women, naked couples, and monkeys copulating, men usually responded according to their orientation (straight men liked the naked women, gay men liked the naked men.) Women, regardless of their orientation, liked everything. Even the monkeys!
EnigmaticClarity Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 In such a climate, it can be pretty difficult to get your libido up and kicking, but that doesn't mean there's a problem with women's libido itself. Some cultures even believe women are more sexually insatiable than men. Some studies support this.... When shown pictures of naked men, naked women, naked couples, and monkeys copulating, men usually responded according to their orientation (straight men liked the naked women, gay men liked the naked men.) Women, regardless of their orientation, liked everything. Even the monkeys! The difference is the physical drive, the hunger, the need. For every woman I've talked to, sex is like ice cream--wonderful, you love it, you crave it, but you can do with out it. For men, it's less of a choice, it's a physical compulsion. I'm just thankful I'm not a black widow or preying mantis male--wanting sex so badly that you're willing to risk getting eaten by the larger-sized female must be the biggest bitch in the world.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 But "liberal" is also just one idea on ethics and views and morals in itself. "Liberal" does not neccesarily mean "equal" or "ethical". At least, that's how I see it. I don't advocate for a dictatorship. I just don't think "liberal" is the opposite of "dictatorship. Liberal thinking, culturally (in the context of this thread - porn) embraces a wide swath and especially with regards to freedoms. Cultural conservatism seeks control and to impose an overarching standard, usually based on Judeo-Christian traditions.
verhrzn Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 The difference is the physical drive, the hunger, the need. For every woman I've talked to, sex is like ice cream--wonderful, you love it, you crave it, but you can do with out it. For men, it's less of a choice, it's a physical compulsion. I'm just thankful I'm not a black widow or preying mantis male--wanting sex so badly that you're willing to risk getting eaten by the larger-sized female must be the biggest bitch in the world. Psychological can do a lot to combat physical urges. Think of those men raised in extremely religious contexts, where they don't even touch their wives until the wedding... are they less than men because they don't have as much of a sexual drive? No, they've just suppressed it down. That's what's occurred for an entire CULTURE of girls. Again, if women had less of a biological drive for sex, then why has the female sex been painted as the temptress/more wanton sex in other cultures for thousands of years? Women. Who was the origin of original sin? A woman. Who sexually responds to ALL types of sexual stimuli (at least physically?) Women.
mtber75 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Yes, porn has made us more sexually healthy. With porn, you can explore more of each other. You can experiment with different positions to see if they are safe or not? Not to mention, porn has exposed the dangers of STD to the public more. Of course like everything else, excessive use of porn can be harmful. Dust, spending money on porn is your choice no one is forcing you? Like stripe joints, no one forced me to blow a bunch of money on Candy or Heidi...I do regret it though:)
kaylan Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 The difference is the physical drive, the hunger, the need. For every woman I've talked to, sex is like ice cream--wonderful, you love it, you crave it, but you can do with out it. For men, it's less of a choice, it's a physical compulsion. I'm just thankful I'm not a black widow or preying mantis male--wanting sex so badly that you're willing to risk getting eaten by the larger-sized female must be the biggest bitch in the world. Dude, you should meet the last girl I slept with then. And my ex as well. They had a sure fire hunger for sex. So there are girls out there with some great sex drives
mtber75 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Take a look at Afghanistan, the bible belt, or any other strict religious country/society and that should answer your question. Also statistically speaking there are more violence toward women in these sexually repressed states/countries! So, again porn is a good thing in moderation:)
EnigmaticClarity Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Dude, you should meet the last girl I slept with then. And my ex as well. They had a sure fire hunger for sex. So there are girls out there with some great sex drives My ex had a great one, wanted it all the time, yet she even agreed--it wasn't a physical compulsion, it was one she developed because she enjoys the feeling so much. It's BETTER than ice cream because you don't get fat from enjoying too much sex.
xxoo Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 The difference is the physical drive, the hunger, the need. For every woman I've talked to, sex is like ice cream--wonderful, you love it, you crave it, but you can do with out it. For men, it's less of a choice, it's a physical compulsion. We don't walk around distracted by sexual thoughts, for the most part. There are exceptions, but for the most part our desire has an "off" position. But that doesn't mean our drive is less. Less constant, maybe, but not less intense. Pair a woman with a man who really keys into her desire, and watch out!
xxoo Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 It's BETTER than ice cream because you don't get fat from enjoying too much sex. Worse. You get pregnant!
joystickd Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Porn doesn't "save" women from rape Gauis. There is no real substanial evidence of that. And it's acutally quite derogatory toward men to say the only thing that keeps men from raping women is the availability of porn. Are you really trying to use an extremist culture that has bigger issues then just sex to make a case for porn? You also seem to suggesting that if these guys has a little porn, they would have been okay and that what happened to her wouldn't have happened. That these men were "forced" into doing what they did becaues of their repression? I'm sorry but porn doesn't save women from rape. And men are better then using porn as a barometer for their ability to be good. http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/everyday_economics/2006/10/how_the_web_prevents_rape.html
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 10, 2012 Author Posted February 10, 2012 It depends on what you mean by "liberal". Classical liberalism (like John Locke and the enlightenment figures) is the opposite of dictatorship. "Liberal" as in the modern sense (like the Democrats in the US) is not necessarily the opposite of dictatorship. Yeah, I totally agree with you on that Aj!
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 10, 2012 Author Posted February 10, 2012 Mme. Chaucer This ranges from the (IMO) insanely anti-porn folks here on LS all the way to the porn obsessed guys they are ranting about. Or people who rant about people who are anti-porn. Basically, I think we are sick here in the US and our relationship to porn is a reflection of that. The porn industry here is capitalizing on this sickness.... Agree. No, porn is not making us more sexually healthy, but stomping it won't help at all. Agree. But talking about what we see in porn and how it affects sexuality and the genders is key.
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 10, 2012 Author Posted February 10, 2012 Porn is not a cause, but an effect of a more sexually healthy society. Porn is just a product of society becoming more sexual healthy, expressive, and honest. Sex is no seen as something to hold back and be afraid like in conservative generations and conservative areas. What could be better than living in a time where more women are being taught to have orgasm and embrace their sexuality. Rather than stifle it and leave sex as something to only be enjoyed by men. Aww, but that's the rub. Porn doesn't teach women to have orgasms. Neither is porn really a healthy example of what real sex is like between men and women. Many of the things done in porn are not even about female pleasure. It's rather like trading one conformity for another. The overly purtanical ideals to the overly sexualized cartoonish depictions of sex. Women and men are being sold ideas about sexuality that have nothing to do with real pleasure in most cases. That is if we are talking about most mainstream porn industry developed movies. People tend to use "amatuers" as a counter. But I am not sure that just because something is filmed without all the make up and lights in a regular porn movie that it's "amatuer" and neither am I even sure how many people even realize these videos are being posted of them. I bet there are too many movies of women that don't even know these videos are posted.
Ross MwcFan Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Also statistically speaking there are more violence toward women in these sexually repressed states/countries! So, again porn is a good thing in moderation:) Exactly, mate.
verhrzn Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 There's not a problem with it per se, it's just vastly lower than the male libido. No... no it's not. I spent most of my last two posts explaining why it appeared that it was.
somedude81 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 However, I DO believe that today's porn puts ridiculous expectations in some men's minds - they expect ALL women to squirt all over the place (did you ever notice the LACK of squirting in 70's and 80's porn? Hmmmm..wonder why that is?) Damn I love squirting. Why is squirting more common now than in the past. Unless there was some recent mutation, women have always been able to squirt. My guess that the reasons it's seen more is because it's more popular. So more girls who can squirt are coming out and doing porn. The view of squirting may have also recently changed and before people thought it was just piss, so it was regressed. From what I read about squriting, holding back is the worst thing a woman can do if she wants to squirt.
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 11, 2012 Author Posted February 11, 2012 How does it not? In a liberal society people are free to have different beliefs, oppinions and be "different" and so forth. How is that bad? Would you rather want to live in a deeply conservative society where it's "wrong" to be gay, where sex is wrong and dirty, where being an atheist is wrong and so forth? I think it's fairly obvious that a liberal society is better. Since all it is... is really people being allowed to do whatever they want. In a perfect world, a "liberal" society would work as you describe. However, like all political ideologies, "liberal" becomes another platform that gets twisted and manipulated for the cause, not for the well being of the people. Not for a real desire to have equality for all beliefs.
Author Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 11, 2012 Author Posted February 11, 2012 However, I DO believe that today's porn puts ridiculous expectations in some men's minds - they expect ALL women to squirt all over the place (did you ever notice the LACK of squirting in 70's and 80's porn? Hmmmm..wonder why that is?) and they think all women want anal sex - the more brutal, the better. They're also led to believe that foreplay is unnecessary and that sex ALWAYS ends when the guy climaxes. If young men are actually using porn as a guideline on how to be a lover, I'd HATE to be the woman they get their hands on. Yeah, that's what I think too.
Negative Nancy Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 Yeah, that's what I think too. Yeah, me too.
gaius Posted February 11, 2012 Posted February 11, 2012 Porn doesn't "save" women from rape Gauis. There is no real substanial evidence of that. And it's acutally quite derogatory toward men to say the only thing that keeps men from raping women is the availability of porn. Are you really trying to use an extremist culture that has bigger issues then just sex to make a case for porn? You also seem to suggesting that if these guys has a little porn, they would have been okay and that what happened to her wouldn't have happened. That these men were "forced" into doing what they did becaues of their repression? I'm sorry but porn doesn't save women from rape. And men are better then using porn as a barometer for their ability to be good. Of course there is no guarantee a little porn would have prevented her from getting raped, but the fact is assaults and harassment like you see in Egypt and other Islamic countries are not nearly as prevalent here. There's a good reason they have to desexualize their women by covering them in sheets and not let them leave the house without a male escort. Whats the real difference between them and us? The only one I see is their sexual attitudes, prostitution is rare and porn is much harder to access. We've had a very conservative, religious society in the past and we didn't have that kind of vile behavior going on. Even before porn we never had the very limited prostitution options that they do, so there's always been a sexual outlet available to men here if they needed one and that can have advantages. That's all I'm saying. There are many different cultures with varying views on sex and porn around the world Disenchantedly, is there one that you would prefer over the one going on in the US right now?
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