EnigmaticClarity Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 But so what if they had "enhancements"? Is that wrong? I'm fine with anybody doing what they like with their body, and sometimes they turn out spectacularly gorgeous - other times, freakish. Salma DEFINITELY had a nose job if that before picture DY linked is a real one. I'm fascinated by cosmetic surgery, but I'm with you, I have no problem at all with it...I only don't like it when it looks unnatural. Most boob jobs that are done end up with a boob that looks like unnaturally round and has weirdly unnatural angles around the top, sides, and bottom. I actually would have had some things done to myself by now if I thought they were possible and the risk was minimal.
silvermercy Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Los Angeles, West Hollywood, Studio City. Land of the Megan Foxes and such so you probably wouldn't like it here. Oh, who says I cannot fit in? If she can transform so can I easily. I think I would like it.
xxoo Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I don't disagree that this happens, but I think that women have to "woman up" and resist being overwhelmed and influenced by media. And mothers have to raise their girls accordingly. Survival of the fittest. Seriously, YES! As a mother, I could not agree more!
EnigmaticClarity Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 What is wrong with extensive makeup? I actually like to get glammed up every day and I know many other women do too. From a relationship perspective, my only issue with it is just how different it's making you look. I'm going to be seeing you without makeup if we click, so if you're a 7 with makeup and a 4 without it, there's a shock coming, and I'm really not sure how I'm going to deal with it. I went out with someone a few times who I put at about a 6, then saw her without makeup and without loose-fitting clothes--she was an entirely different person, I couldn't believe it. I went from attracted to not attracted almost immediately.
somedude81 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Getting a six pack is not easy. In fact it's probably the hardest thing to achieve in working out. It requires a very strict diet, very low body-fat and constant fitness to maintain. Then there is the fact that being even able to have a six pack is controlled by genetics. Think about it this way. Not all women have the genetics to be a D cup. But imagine that those that do, had to maintain a certain level of fitness and eat a careful diet and if they didn't, their breasts wouldn't get that big. And if they got lazy and didn't care about what they ate and stopped working out, their breasts would shrink. There is none of this just looking good because it's in your genes. You have to earn it and work to keep it.
joystickd Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 What's the big deal with people thinking it's a big deal? Why does someone have to be "bitter" if they see an issue with something? Why does someone have to be "bitter" if they see what they perceive to be issues of interpretation between fantasy and reality? We all have our opinion on things and we don't have to be "bitter" either way to have them. Hey, that's awesome that you can eat whatever you want. Life IS unfair. And I respect your opinion. I do not think make-up is bad or that using it to highlight your features is bad. I just think there are unrealistic standards that make people more unhappy rather then happy. I understand that you disagree. That's okay. And no one is hating on Megan Fox. Many times she has been complimented for her looks by me and other women who were on either side of the coin on this subject. Why is going out without make up make someone a hippie? Isn't your position that you do not like what you perceived to be labeling of whatever someone chooses to do with themselves? Hey, I would never be a West Coast Girl. I am East Coast all the way. Its the vibe you give off.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 I don't disagree that this happens, but I think that women have to "woman up" and resist being overwhelmed and influenced by media. And mothers have to raise their girls accordingly. Survival of the fittest. Oh I agree! 110%. I would only extend that to mothers AND fathers. Fathers play a big role in their little girl's lives too right? how they perceive beauty is jsut as important as how their mothers do. I think we do need to tell women to "woman up" and resist being overwhelmed and influenced by media. But we also need men to do the same. Because otherwise, this doesn't work.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 From a relationship perspective, my only issue with it is just how different it's making you look. I'm going to be seeing you without makeup if we click, so if you're a 7 with makeup and a 4 without it, there's a shock coming, and I'm really not sure how I'm going to deal with it. I went out with someone a few times who I put at about a 6, then saw her without makeup and without loose-fitting clothes--she was an entirely different person, I couldn't believe it. I went from attracted to not attracted almost immediately. It doesn't sound like you were really too into her from the beginning EC. Am I wrong? But think about being with a woman that had plastic surgery and having kids and your daughter having features that look nothing like her mother or you. The daughter at some point might wonder why she doesn't have mommies ample boobs or cute little fine tipped nose. It's just another interesting factor.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 What kind of freaks me out are the "bad plastic surgery" pics of some rich/ famous people. If folks who can afford the best money can buy end up with these results, I shudder to think about how things can go wrong for people with a "normal" budget for cosmetic surgery. I think I will get my boobs hoisted.
EnigmaticClarity Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Oh I agree! 110%. I would only extend that to mothers AND fathers. Fathers play a big role in their little girl's lives too right? how they perceive beauty is jsut as important as how their mothers do. I think we do need to tell women to "woman up" and resist being overwhelmed and influenced by media. But we also need men to do the same. Because otherwise, this doesn't work. My girlfriend links too much of her self-esteem to her looks. I'm confident with or without my looks, and I'm pretty sure it's because I've worked to overcome past negative stereotypes people have tried to apply to me, so I feel as if I can achieve anything reasonable. I used to not be athletic, so I worked to become that way in my middle teens. I used to be too nerdy, so I worked to become more social and more well-rounded in my knowledge by diving into literature and the arts. I used to not be that great a communicator and public speaker, so I took a job as an adult educator in web development for years to overcome that obstacle. The more you prove to yourself you can overcome your shortcomings, the more your self-esteem builds and the more likely you are to not rest it upon something superficial such as looks. That's my formula for confidence if I have a daughter--teach her to do anything she wants. What I'm not sure I can teach is the will and desire it took for me to do those things to gain the confidence in the first place...but I've got some ideas for motivating people. Carpe Diem drives me, I think it's a powerful motivator.
somedude81 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 What kind of freaks me out are the "bad plastic surgery" pics of some rich/ famous people. If folks who can afford the best money can buy end up with these results, I shudder to think about how things can go wrong for people with a "normal" budget for cosmetic surgery. I think I will get my boobs hoisted. Nikki Cox RiP Before After Why?
EnigmaticClarity Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 It doesn't sound like you were really too into her from the beginning EC. Am I wrong? But think about being with a woman that had plastic surgery and having kids and your daughter having features that look nothing like her mother or you. The daughter at some point might wonder why she doesn't have mommies ample boobs or cute little fine tipped nose. It's just another interesting factor. Unfortunately I was VERY into her--we were a great match personality-wise. The same day I saw her without makeup and saw her real weight, I also found out she had some significant mental issues as well, and the reality that she was a 3 or 4 who was a little nuts came crashing down on me all within an hour or two. I felt awful, but knew it wasn't going to work--there was all of a sudden no physical attraction at all, and to boot the risk of her mental issues compounding the problem. Breaking up with that girl was the worst moment of my dating life. She taught me to look skeptically at women I'm thinking of dating who wear heavy makeup. If I had a child with a woman who had plastic surgery, I'd have a lot of thinking to do to figure out how to encroach the subject so as not to damage her self-esteem, but I'm fairly optimistic it can be done. I'd eventually tell her if she didn't find out herself, but I'd probably wait until she was an adult, or perhaps an older teenager. My current girlfriend and I already have tattoos she'd notice, so the body modification talk may come up for me one day anyway.
xxoo Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 My girlfriend links too much of her self-esteem to her looks. . How much of your attraction to her is linked to her looks? Some women link their self esteem too much to what men think of them, too.
EnigmaticClarity Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 How much of your attraction to her is linked to her looks? Some women link their self esteem too much to what men think of them, too. A decent amount of my attraction is based upon her appearance--and that's true for her as well, she's also physically attracted to me, she tells me what she likes a lot. Most of what I love her for isn't appearance-based, but I definitely love how she looks. However, the things she's self-conscious about don't matter to me. I repeatedly tell her that, but she dismisses it--I think she thinks my standards are lower than hers so she doesn't trust them. Examples--she's too tall, but I absolutely love that about her...she thinks she's fat, but she's not at all (her BMI is 20)...and a host of other very minor issues I won't mention here for fear that she's reading this and will kill me for revealing it publicly that are overblown in her mind, all of which are real issues but VERY minor, yet they're major in her estimation of herself.
kaylan Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) Getting a six pack is not easy. In fact it's probably the hardest thing to achieve in working out. It requires a very strict diet, very low body-fat and constant fitness to maintain. Then there is the fact that being even able to have a six pack is controlled by genetics. Think about it this way. Not all women have the genetics to be a D cup. But imagine that those that do, had to maintain a certain level of fitness and eat a careful diet and if they didn't, their breasts wouldn't get that big. And if they got lazy and didn't care about what they ate and stopped working out, their breasts would shrink. There is none of this just looking good because it's in your genes. You have to earn it and work to keep it. You cant equate abs to breasts. Getting abs is a far more controllable thing than altering breast size. Id equate male chest size to breast size. Men get hard pecs and women get firm lifted breasts from working the chest. And both men and women have to eat right and do cardio to get a nice stomach. What would affect breast size is body fat percentage. But this affects the appearance of a mans chest too. The only way in which id compare a mans abs to a womans chest is sexual response from the opposite sex. I see girls go ga-ga over shredded abs even though a guy might not have a well defined chest, while guys go crazy over big breasts despite a girl not having the slimmest waist. However, as I said before, for sheer fitness comparisons, you cant compare a mans abs to a womans breasts since they are affected differently in fitness. Genetics might make it harder to get a six pack for some guys, but they arent limited the way a womans chest is. Edited February 13, 2012 by kaylan
somedude81 Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Genetics might make it harder to get a six pack for some guys, but they arent limited the way a womans chest is. No that was my exact point. If a guy doesn't have the genetics to get a six pack, he's not going to get one no matter how hard he works our or how strict his diet is. It's the same thing as a woman trying to get bigger boobs by going to the gym, it's just not going to happen.
kaylan Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) No that was my exact point. If a guy doesn't have the genetics to get a six pack, he's not going to get one no matter how hard he works our or how strict his diet is. It's the same thing as a woman trying to get bigger boobs by going to the gym, it's just not going to happen. You are misinterpreting my response. A guys abs are NOT limited by genetics the same way a womans breasts are. Its VERY possible for a guy with crappy endomorph genetics to get a six pack through hard work and dedication. It may not be as shredded as the ectomorph but he can get defined abs. Women dont get bigger boobs by going to the gym. Getting more body fat will increase breast size. Going to the gym will lift and firm breasts. Not make them bigger. Size is based on fatty tissue. Edited February 13, 2012 by kaylan
EnigmaticClarity Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Most of what I love her for isn't appearance-based, but I definitely love how she looks. However, the things she's self-conscious about don't matter to me. I repeatedly tell her that, but she dismisses it--I think she thinks my standards are lower than hers so she doesn't trust them. Thinking about it, her issue isn't what I think about her. She knows I find her attractive, but anything that knocks her down from perfection just eats at her. She wants to be gorgeous to herself and all of humanity, and since I love her, I think she discounts it when I try to tell her that her issues are comparatively minor because she thinks I'm biased and just trying to make her feel better about her shortcomings that are real but that I have chosen to accept.
pyroguy Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Oh I agree! 110%. I would only extend that to mothers AND fathers. Fathers play a big role in their little girl's lives too right? how they perceive beauty is jsut as important as how their mothers do. I think we do need to tell women to "woman up" and resist being overwhelmed and influenced by media. But we also need men to do the same. Because otherwise, this doesn't work. hmm. What do we tell our boys? does anyone care about them? The images they see of the ideal man and female's reactions are also troublesome. Then again, women tend to have selective perception when it comes to this. I think women don't really care about unrealistic perections, except when it affects them. When it benefits them and their desires, it's all great, like the poster who is dissapointed about Megan Fox being presented as the ideal, but herself wants to see the hottest, most unrealistic men...and wants to move to Southern California (the most unreal place on the planet) to meet them. Also, I've heard a penis enlargement ad where the women tells guys, "guy's your PROBLEM isn't going to fix itself" problem? besides the images, do women have commercials that actually tell them they aren't good enough? I, like many other men just laugh at it, but I'm sure others don't . What will women do about it? what will you tell your son? will women stop throwing their bras on stage? I know men aren't allowed to be insecure here, but really it's a terribe double standard.
silvermercy Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 (edited) I think women don't really care about unrealistic perections, except when it affects them. When it benefits them and their desires, it's all great, like the poster who is dissapointed about Megan Fox being presented as the ideal, but herself wants to see the hottest, most unrealistic men...and wants to move to Southern California (the most unreal place on the planet) to meet them. LOL That must be me! First, it was a joke about moving. Second, Megan Fox is being currently presented as the ideal. Where is Megan Fox's "brother" for us to see (if she has one)? That is what I keep asking in this thread. Very few celeb men do it for me (and in porn, none at all - unless they're good-looking gay men in gay sites). Edited February 13, 2012 by silvermercy
Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Women dont get bigger boobs by going to the gym. Getting more body fat will increase breast size. Going to the gym will lift and firm breasts. Not make them bigger. Size is based on fatty tissue. I think going to the gym can lift breasts for women with smaller breasts. I don't know if that is the case for bigger breasts to a significatn degree since all breasts are, are fat. Sometimes working out even makes them smaller. Depending on how a woman's body is and where she looses fat first. I know I loose fat first in my arms and legs and fingers before anywhere else.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Thinking about it, her issue isn't what I think about her. She knows I find her attractive, but anything that knocks her down from perfection just eats at her. She wants to be gorgeous to herself and all of humanity, and since I love her, I think she discounts it when I try to tell her that her issues are comparatively minor because she thinks I'm biased and just trying to make her feel better about her shortcomings that are real but that I have chosen to accept. EC, I can only say for me that I don't want to be with men that only accept my short comings. I want them to like those things because they make me the individual I am.
xxoo Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 Thinking about it, her issue isn't what I think about her. She knows I find her attractive, but anything that knocks her down from perfection just eats at her. She wants to be gorgeous to herself and all of humanity, and since I love her, I think she discounts it when I try to tell her that her issues are comparatively minor because she thinks I'm biased and just trying to make her feel better about her shortcomings that are real but that I have chosen to accept. If that's true (the bolded), that's an interesting insight. I can't imagine needing to be considered that attractive, and I'm glad I don't. Sounds depressing, and futile.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 You're right Pyroguy, there is more pressure on men now then there use to be. Men are pulling up the rear in having to be accountable for a beauty idea. I don't think it's close to what women experience but I don't want to see it get there either. I have been attracted to a wide variety of men. From men that are not stereotypically attractive at all, to men that are. I also have been turned off by non stereotypically attractive men and stereotypically men too. I hate rating men on a scale from 1-10 because I think limits my perception of them. I can not say someone is a 1 or 5 or 9 because I don't really believe there are any 1s or 5s or 9s. The men my friends are attracted to are so different then what I like. We all have different tastes and thank god because then we don't try to steal each other's man. For example, I have always found Jon Stewart really attractive but I have never ever found Brad Pitt attractive. I think we tell our boys the same thing we tell our girls. Not to buy into ideas sold to them by the media to sell products for themselves or the other gender. It makes no sense to me to expect women to not buy into ideals but not expect men to do the same. To decide for themselves what they like. To look at each other with more respect then just surface factors. I think it also requires not purchasing and enabling certain material on BOTH sides.
xxoo Posted February 13, 2012 Posted February 13, 2012 EC, I can only say for me that I don't want to be with men that only accept my short comings. I want them to like those things because they make me the individual I am. Someone who really loves you will like those things about you. Just like EC likes his partner's height, when she is objectively "too tall", and my H loves my belly more than any other spot, specifically because of the soft skin and stretch marks from pregnancy.
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