Divorce?

[johan]

I don't know Johan.. it is what he is doing but the cost of divorce for her isn't really higher than most..

She raised the kids while a SAHM and gave up her career or chance to have one to and as such she at her age would get quite the chunk in alimony .. if not all the way to her retirement age.

 

You're probably right, Art. It sounds like a gamble.

 

I'm noticing tastes of self righteousness in you when you speak of your wife that honestly wouldn't be there if you were feeling better about your sobriety.

 

In my mind, Moose has always had a hard time drawing the line between righteous and self-righteous. At least here on LS. And I never linked that to whether he was drinking, although I now assume he was all along. If that is also how things go for him in real life, then that could also drive a wedge between him and his wife.

 

I respect his faith, but I would recommend keeping God and morality in the background in the discussions. More as underpinnings. It's too easy to bring them out at opportune times and use them as tools to make the other person feel guilty. That might win you the battle but lose you the war.

Edited February 17, 2012 by johan

[Heather2]

I have been down this road .. I was/am married for 24 years ..kids are grown and on their own..he did whatever he pleased was a bully and very abusive ..(hence getting to do whatever he pleased).. I tried everything under the sun to make things peaceful and to work.. he never participated.. I finally left ..he freaked ..cried, begged ,promised me literally the moon and stars..I told him the same thing ,counseling alone at first then I joined in later ..He acted the same way .. its not his fault, its mine..he pushed 20 something years of abuse under the table and wanted to focus on right then only..which he claimed was emotional abuse bc I set boundaries and he no longer was in control..we did this song and dance for 2 years.. he never did anything to change just played nice.. I moved back and the nightmare was truly insane to live thru..he even filed a divorce petition and tried to force me to obey or he would complete it ..after trying to talk him into doing just that, I finally got together enough money and had him served...He IS livid.. He is trying so hard to retain total control...It always was the kids fault, my fault, co workers ,his bosses fault,ect... never his.. He refuses to see that he is responsible for his actions..He recently told a group of friends from church .."He didn't hit me ,I made him do it"..I am presently going to my first hearing ..I will let you know how it goes so you will know what to expect for yours..He currently is golf buddies with the judge and his lawyer ,so according to him I will lose everything and he will walk away with it all. I will then have to obey him...so you might want to use some of these tactics to set that stubborn head strong abusive wife of yours straight..but heads up abusers usually win in the courts bc they are willing to lie and do anything to get their way..

[Moose]

Since you don't state a SOLID plan of ACTION - nothing will change.

 

Being patient isn't the answer to get rid of resentments.

 

Having a healthy boundary is. Having a plan that invokes change is best.

 

How can you carry out a plan if you don't have an idea what the plan is?

 

Get a plan man!

My solid plan is to stay dry, work on myself and my relationship to God. IF my wife is still, "on board" with our marriage she'll eventually see either a positive change, or a negative change.

 

I feel at this point that this is all I can do. I hope that makes sense?

[Moose]

I think he has a plan. He is turning inward and betting that she will ultimately decide divorce is not worth it. It's attrition. She doesn't have a lot to offer in the job market, so the cost of divorce to her will be higher than for most modern women. He's living the life that most anti-feminists yearn for.

Not really Johan. I've encouraged her in the past to use grants available to her to get an education should anything happen to me.

 

It goes kinda like this, "I'm thinking raidiology"....2 weeks later, "Well, there's pre-requisites (sw?) maybe ultra sound, 2 weeks later, there's pre-requisites for that too...maybe just a PT job then....I don't know"

 

Rinse....repeat...

[Moose]

I don't know Johan.. it is what he is doing but the cost of divorce for her isn't really higher than most..

She raised the kids while being a SAHM and gave up her career or chance to have one to and as such she at her age would get quite the chunk in alimony .. if not all the way to her retirement age.

 

What you might be seeing is him turning inward hoping she still wants the marriage because it will be pretty costly to him, financially, emotionally and otherwise.

 

Moose.. I hope your still not drinking..

Remember though that being sober is more than not drinking, your thinking that has got to change too...

Being a dry drunk isn't a pleasant road my friend.. you need to find out how to find some serenity on your road to sobriety and quitting because some people on LS think you can't won't do it..

 

I'm noticing tastes of self righteousness in you when you speak of your wife that honestly wouldn't be there if you were feeling better about your sobriety.

 

I wish you the best Moose, I've been posting on this forum with you for years and think very highly of you and hope that you can turn this around into something bountiful for you both...

Johan, thanks man! I am! It's not easy being back at my brother's company. You almost have to be a professional drinker to get anywhere, people are confused there with my behaviour as well....

 

I appreciate you more than you'll know. You've caused me to think in ways I would've never thought of. Thanks again!

[Moose]

I have been down this road .. I was/am married for 24 years ..kids are grown and on their own..he did whatever he pleased was a bully and very abusive ..(hence getting to do whatever he pleased).. I tried everything under the sun to make things peaceful and to work.. he never participated.. I finally left ..he freaked ..cried, begged ,promised me literally the moon and stars..I told him the same thing ,counseling alone at first then I joined in later ..He acted the same way .. its not his fault, its mine..he pushed 20 something years of abuse under the table and wanted to focus on right then only..which he claimed was emotional abuse bc I set boundaries and he no longer was in control..we did this song and dance for 2 years.. he never did anything to change just played nice.. I moved back and the nightmare was truly insane to live thru..he even filed a divorce petition and tried to force me to obey or he would complete it ..after trying to talk him into doing just that, I finally got together enough money and had him served...He IS livid.. He is trying so hard to retain total control...It always was the kids fault, my fault, co workers ,his bosses fault,ect... never his.. He refuses to see that he is responsible for his actions..He recently told a group of friends from church .."He didn't hit me ,I made him do it"..I am presently going to my first hearing ..I will let you know how it goes so you will know what to expect for yours..He currently is golf buddies with the judge and his lawyer ,so according to him I will lose everything and he will walk away with it all. I will then have to obey him...so you might want to use some of these tactics to set that stubborn head strong abusive wife of yours straight..but heads up abusers usually win in the courts bc they are willing to lie and do anything to get their way..

Wow....I'm so sorry for what you're going through. I would never do any of what was said above. Our relationship is 100% ours. I don't claim that what's going on is all her. I've done wrong, yet she has as well.

 

It's being able to communicate with each other's personality types, combined with where we are on a personal level at that point and time that seems to be a driving force behind what we're experiencing.

 

Could that be the same for your situation?

[2sunny]

Johan, thanks man! I am! It's not easy being back at my brother's company. You almost have to be a professional drinker to get anywhere, people are confused there with my behaviour as well....

 

I appreciate you more than you'll know. You've caused me to think in ways I would've never thought of. Thanks again!

 

So... I noticed you didn't answer Arts question. Are you still sober?

 

Whether or not other people around me drink - my choice is not to drink alcohol.

 

It really reads as though you are surrounded by drinkers - therefore you must drink.

 

I'm around drinkers - but I don't drink the alcohol.

[Art_Critic]

So... I noticed you didn't answer Arts question. Are you still sober?

 

I think he did Sunny..

 

My solid plan is to stay dry, work on myself and my relationship to God.

 

Johan, thanks man! I am! It's not easy being back at my brother's company. You almost have to be a professional drinker to get anywhere, people are confused there with my behaviour as well....

 

Keep up your efforts Moose concerning your drinking.. your marriage will most likely only survive if you stay sober..

[Moose]

So... I noticed you didn't answer Arts question. Are you still sober?

 

Whether or not other people around me drink - my choice is not to drink alcohol.

 

It really reads as though you are surrounded by drinkers - therefore you must drink.

 

I'm around drinkers - but I don't drink the alcohol.

Let me clarify, if I may. For a (known) alcoholic in the "once known" workplace chosing not to partake is very confusing to management, especially my brother being the President.

 

Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic it's only a matter of time before he or she drinks again. right? (I believe that this came from that, "House" show.)

 

"Dr. House" may have struck a nerve in that episode for me. Opposed to what House says, I have and decided to maintain a different mind set that yes, I am an alcoholic, and that's why I CAN'T drink.

 

Make sense?

[2sunny]

Let me clarify, if I may. For a (known) alcoholic in the "once known" workplace chosing not to partake is very confusing to management, especially my brother being the President.

 

Once an alcoholic, always an alcoholic it's only a matter of time before he or she drinks again. right? (I believe that this came from that, "House" show.)

 

"Dr. House" may have struck a nerve in that episode for me. Opposed to what House says, I have and decided to maintain a different mind set that yes, I am an alcoholic, and that's why I CAN'T drink.

 

Make sense?

 

Dr house switched from scotch to brandy - or - rather to prescription pills... So his character wasn't considered to be "sober".

 

There is a way to become "recovered" - albeit - one day at a time. I am sober today... And very grateful for that...

[Moose]

Dr house switched from scotch to brandy - or - rather to prescription pills... So his character wasn't considered to be "sober".

 

There is a way to become "recovered" - albeit - one day at a time. I am sober today... And very grateful for that...

Thank goodness for that!

 

"Recovered" doesn't register in my mind. And I'll tell you why. Permanent damage has occured whether or not you chose to believe it.

 

"Recovering" however is a constant process. THAT I can accept.

 

As far as House, it only goes to reinforce my point. Once an addict, always an addict.

 

There's a "hole" to fill...

[Moose]

K, here's something that maybe you all can help me digest. On Valentine's day, I went to get the Mrs. a card and candy. While there, I couldn't get her words out of my mind, "I'm d-o-n-e done". Well...there are no cards to buy a wife that's done, checked out, finished. So I didn't get her one. But I did get her a heart shaped box of chocolates.

 

BUT, she did get me a card, and a little chocolate. I felt like an ass. I had to tell her that the reasoning why I didn't get a card. And she had told me that she wasn't going to get one either but decided at the last minute to go ahead and do so. And when she wrote what she did, she didn't really feel it.

 

So Wednesday I sent her and email:

 

"Carole,

 

Yesterday kinda sucked for both of us. I apologize for not getting you a card, but you know why. You also said something in regards to the card you bought me. I don't quite remember what you said exactly, but I was left with the impression that you didn't mean what you wrote. When we were finished with that particular conversation, I said we both might as well come to terms that this marriage isn't working. And then finished with, "well.....that's that".

 

I'm writing this to ask you if you could explain to me, (this has nothing to do with my counceling tonight) what you meant that I checked out a long time ago? Also, where and what do you think we should do from here?

 

Take your time, and if you don't want to respond, at least let me know that you're not going to.

 

I do love you. I always have and regardless what happens I always will.

 

Dennis"

 

Her response was:

 

"In response to your question of what I meant about you checking out a long time ago...

 

You aren't here for us except financially. You go to work, come home and depending on the weather, you go to the garage or to your office. You don't spend any "family time" with us. You don't even eat with us. I've tried talking to you over and over about it. I've hinted around about it.

 

You call your personal spaces your family avoidance centers. You have no idea how much that hurts, not just me but your kids as well. You want to know why the kids don't respect you? It's cause you say one thing and do another. They don't believe you and frankly neither do I. We are tired of constant disappointment.

 

You've pushed us away too long. I wanted to try one last time yesterday with that card but I got my answer as usual.

 

I've been rejected too many times. I'm tired of fighting for your attention. I came out and told you what I needed point blank and practically begged you to do something, anything that showed me I was still the most important thing in your world.

 

All I got was "not now, my show is on." and "I'm not gonna bend over backwards to make you happy."

If you had come to me like that after telling me what I told you I'd be doing everything in my power to win you over.

 

I really don't think you are in this anymore. I think deep down you want out but don't want to be the one that walks away. I really think we both feel that way right now.

 

As far as what we should do about it, I think we should discuss that in person. We both need to just be open and honest and go from there."

 

I'll wait for some feedback from you guys, and let you know what my take is on all this....

 

Thanks!

[johan]

How could anyone here top what she said? That's a lot of insight you've never offered before about your family dynamic. She was pretty straight with you and it isn't complicated.

 

There are two questions in my mind:

1) Can you take real action to address those issues?

2) If you were able to change, would it make any difference to her feelings?

 

There is a point of no return. I don't get the impression you've reached it. But you will someday.

[Moose]

1) Can you take real action to address those issues?

 

2) If you were able to change, would it make any difference to her feelings?

 

There is a point of no return. I don't get the impression you've reached it. But you will someday.

I think I already am at the point of no return.

 

1) I don't think I can. Everything she has said may make sense from her perspective, to me they are symptons of an underlining problem. And in mind, it's not my problem.

 

2) Yes. There will be more expectations. I know this from past experiences.

[johan]

Maybe she is asking more of you than you are able to offer. But it seems like her expectations are reasonable.

She wants you for more than your paycheck.

She wants you to be present and involved.

She wants you to be consistent in word and action.

She wants you to earn the respect of your kids.

 

I'm guessing that's too much to ask after you and she have invested so much in building things into what they are. And maybe you don't know how to do some of them or feel you've already tried and don't want to anymore.

 

If that's all true, then why continue?

 

Sometime after you reach the point of no return, there comes a decisive moment where you overcome your fear of change and all at once everything starts getting done. That happens automatically, so don't feel pressured to do anything right away. It will happen (maybe it will happen to you) when the time is right.

Edited February 18, 2012 by johan

[whichwayisup]

Yet here you are trying to change and go to marriage counselling. She's TOTALLY putting ALL the blame on you. You asked her to join you in marriage counseling to fix things, she said no. SO, how about asking her to go with you to help prepare for separation and divorce. This way you two can atleast be on OK terms for the kids sake and future grandchildrens sake later in the future.

 

Your wife has put it all on you and washed her hands of this, that's obvious. That vday line You've pushed us away too long. I wanted to try one last time yesterday with that card but I got my answer as usual. is such CRAP, try one last time? With a bloody card? She is playing the victim and honestly, is being a b.itchy about it too. Deep down she knows she has been part of the demise of your marriage but doesn't want to take ANY responsibility for her part in any issues and problems. She wants to be the good guy and you be the bad guy so she comes out of this on top and smelling like a rose.

 

You aren't here for us except financially. You go to work, come home and depending on the weather, you go to the garage or to your office. You don't spend any "family time" with us. You don't even eat with us. I've tried talking to you over and over about it. I've hinted around about it.

 

So which is it? Hinted or actually had a conversation with you about this? It seems either she's rewriting history or bending things to suit her best, and again, put this ALL on you.

[Moose]

You have some good points Johan. So let me share with you what I was going to respond to her with. I decided not to do so until I talked to my councelor:

 

"In response to your question of what I meant about you checking out a long time ago..." - I never asked her about ME checking out. I mentioned about you saying being d-o-n-e, done.

 

"You aren't here for us except financially. You go to work, come home and depending on the weather, you go to the garage or to your office. You don't spend any "family time" with us.You don't even eat with us. I've tried talking to you over and over about it. I've hinted around about it." - I'm sorry that I didn't come from a family that sits at the dinner table together.

 

We never did. Besides, by the time I get home, you're already on the couch eating and the kids are in their rooms eating. I'm not usually hungry right after work anyways. As far as family time, I've tried repeatedly to have a game night with everyone and I get turned down every single time!

 

Just last week while there was snow on the back roads I offered you a ride in the new 4X4, you turned that down. I renting a whole roller rink for Tristan's B-Day just last month and we all skated together. Just a few months ago you and I helped Ben's Drama Team buil an entire set...what else are you expecting?

 

"You call your personal spaces your family avoidance centers." - I got that from some TV show for crying out loud. I think I called the garage my FAC three times. Besides, have I EVER said no one could join me in my office or garage? Never. In fact....it would be nice if you did involve yourself with some of the projects around the outside of the house.

 

"You have no idea how much that hurts, not just me but your kids as well." - Be honest with yourself, because you did tell me a year ago it bothered you, have you heard me say "FAC" ever since you told me that?

 

"You want to know why the kids don't respect you? It's cause you say one thing and do another. They don't believe you and frankly neither do I. We are tired of constant disappointment." - Don't place 100% of the blame on me!! It was agreed that you wanted to be the stay at home mom. You should back me up when I assign chores or punishments, but you don't. You allow them to get away with dis-obeying me. So I just give up because I'm always the "BAD GUY".

"You've pushed us away too long. I wanted to try one last time yesterday with that card but I got my answer as usual." - Tell me again what you said about the card last night. Seriously. I want to hear it again! Then ask yourself, were you really reaching out???

 

 

"I've been rejected too many times." - YOU????!!!!! Oh boy....

 

"I'm tired of fighting for your attention." - AGAIN.....YOU????!!!!

 

"I came out and told you what I needed point blank and practically begged you to do something, anything that showed me I was still the most important thing in your world.

 

All I got was "not now, my show is on." and "I'm not gonna bend over backwards to make you happy." - And why do you think I reacted that way? You told me point blank that you're not going to do anything. You're done. What motivation is there for me now? Besides, as hard as I've worked to provide for our family, and as hard as I have worked on myself seems to be null and void. God is most important to me in this world, you will always be number 2 and I would be 110% devestated if something happened between us!!!

 

"If you had come to me like that after telling me what I told you I'd be doing everything in my power to win you over." - Quite frankly, I don't think you would. Help me understand what that looks like in your mind? And remember, you been telling me for months that you're "d-o-n-e, done"...

 

"I really don't think you are in this anymore. I think deep down you want out but don't want to be the one that walks away. I really think we both feel that way right now." - Ok, whatever. I go to counceling every week. I've dried up. Im trying to gain more confidence in myself. I'm trying hard to work on me and my relationship with God. Does that sound like someone who doesn't want to be in this anymore? The only thing I don't want anymore is UNREALISTIC EXPECTATIONS from you....

 

"As far as what we should do about it, I think we should discuss that in person. We both need to just be open and honest and go from there." - I agree, and we will. I do think that emailing is better for me because it takes time for me to process just what you mean. It's ten fold harder for me to do so talking in person.

And we did talk about it last night. I adressed each of these issues 1 through 10.

 

I'll let you digest this and get your response first though....my fingers are cramping!!!

[johan]

To me that is just point-counterpoint. She says something critical of you. You respond to each point how she's wrong and throw in a criticism of her. Then she responds with a crtiticism of her own. It's communication, and so you can both claim your communicating. But it's not really productive communication.

 

Just like every meeting you have at work, every one of these conversations with her should be oriented around a clear set of problems, and should probably end with some plan of action. Some clear agreement on who is going to do what. If all you do is both come away knowing you've discussed the problem but no solutions, then you'll only feel frustrated.

 

But I wonder if action is what either of you want. Are either of you really just telling the other that "this wall I built will only ever just get higher, because I actually don't want you to climb over it. Take all the action you want, but I'm not on your team anymore"?

 

Like I said: change will come one way or the other. Don't feel obligated to take action if you don't feel ready for it. You'll do it when you're ready, or she will when she is. And I'm not necessarily talking about the divorce kind of change. But I'd say that that is the most likely outcome.

[quankanne]

"I've been rejected too many times. I'm tired of fighting for your attention. I came out and told you what I needed point blank and practically begged you to do something, anything that showed me I was still the most important thing in your world."

 

I can't think of one person who's been in a serious relationship who hasn't felt that way, that his/her partner doesn't give the level of attention believed needed ...

 

BUT ...

 

when you're in a relationship you want, hope springs eternal and you keep telling yourself change will come, that at some point, you're going to mean something as much to your partner as he/she means to you. And so you forgive those incidents or you flat-out get in their face and TELL them you're not happy about specific behavior. And the interesting thing is, that a lot of times, honest dialogue (not nagging!) is all it takes for a partner to start being more aware of these things.

 

expecting someone to read your mind, then getting pissy because he/she doesn't do so, is not the smartest way to go about it.

 

maybe it's time to ask her point-blank what are some solutions to the communication problem in your marriage? What specifically can you do, can she do to help improve the situation? This lets her know that she's equally responsible for keeping your marriage viable, and not let her keep her starring role as victim. Because I'm sorry, someone who has that many squawks stored up inside and refuses to air them is someone who wants to be a martyr and a victim, not someone interested in doing whatever it takes to keep the relationship afloat in a healthy manner.

 

if one person has to change, chances are both of them need to change, otherwise, the relationship will never have balance to it.

[Moose]

Thanks Quank,

 

By the time I got to work this morning. She posted a picture of her Pomeranian with the message, "True Unconditional Love :-)".

 

She doesn't even know how much that hurts me, nor does she care!

 

I'm sooooo tired...

[quankanne]

find someone to photoshop a picture of you in a dog suit and send it to her with the message, "I love you, too!"

 

either she'll laugh and realize her hard-headed stance isn't helping matters, or she'll be really, really pissed that you're "making fun of her" ~ either way, it'll get a reaction from her and pull her out of her self-inflicted pity party (IMO)

[Moose]

find someone to photoshop a picture of you in a dog suit and send it to her with the message, "I love you, too!"

 

either she'll laugh and realize her hard-headed stance isn't helping matters, or she'll be really, really pissed that you're "making fun of her" ~ either way, it'll get a reaction from her and pull her out of her self-inflicted pity party (IMO)

I guess my point is, if she really knew what unconditional love really is, she wouldn't put unrealistic expectiations on me...

[oldguy]

I guess my point is, if she really knew what unconditional love really is, she wouldn't put unrealistic expectiations on me...

 

If she really knew what unconditional love really was she would be going to therapy with you or at least be working on the relationship.

 

What she has told you in no uncertain terms is, "I give up, if you want us to work, you fix it & when you fail it's all your fault".

 

You can not make a gin & tonic without the gin AND the tonic & you can not make a marriage work when one party is not interested.

[Moose]

Well, I finally typed up what I said I would do and that was to ask her about these points, (10 in all) without any anger, I'm just going to sit and listen. Whatever is in quotations is the email, anything underlined is me asking for specifics. Anything without quotes is what her response was:

 

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]1.[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]“You aren’t here for us except financially. You go to work come home and depending on the weather; you go to your office or to the garage.” Going there right after work is not so bad. Staying there all night is.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]2.[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]“You don’t spend any “family time” with us. You don’t even eat with us. I’ve tried talking to you over and over about it. I’ve hinted around about it.” It’s like the kids and I want to have fun but it gets on your nerves. It’s as if you don’t know how to have fun and you’re in your own world. I feel like we’re roommates and that isn’t going to change, I feel emptiness with you. The kids are my only fun, besides that I’m always alone, I’m just your maid and nanny taking care of the kids and this includes, “dinner time”[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]3.[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]“You call your personal spaces your family avoidance center.” I don’t think you’re joking when you say that. I truly believe you use the garage and office to avoid us.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]4.[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]“You know why the kids don’t respect you? It’s cause you say one thing and do another. They don’t believe you and frankly neither do I. We are tired of constant disappointment.” You promise to take us fishing, camping and it never happens. That’s just one thing. I paused and asked, “You said that just one thing. Can you think of anything else?” All that I can think of from the top of my head.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]5.[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]“You’ve pushed us away too long. I wanted to try one last time yesterday with that card but I got my answer as usual.” I asked her, “so, does that mean you’re done? You said “one last time”. I’m not giving up on anything. I just don’t want to get hurt.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]6.[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]“I’ve been rejected too many times. I’m tired of fighting for your attention.” I asked if this went back to #1 and re-read #1 to her, then asked if she meant something else. She just stared at the ground and wouldn’t answer. So I moved on to 7. [/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]7.[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]“I came out and told you what I needed point blank and practically begged you to do something, anything that showed me I was still the most important thing in your world. All I got was, “Not now, my show is on” and “I’m not going to bend over backwards to make you happy.” I asked and referred back to her comment about her saying “You chose to hear whatever you want to hear”, then asked her if she felt that the reverse could be true. I’m sure it can be, I’m not saying it can’t”[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]8.[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]“If you came to me like that after telling me what I told you I’d be doing everything in my power to win you over.” If you came to me in tears like I did that night I would’ve held you in my arms and ask what I could do to make it better.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]9.[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri] “I really don’t think you are in this anymore. I think deep down you want out but don’t want to be the one that walks away. I really think we both feel that way right now." I asked if this is still an accurate statement. I don’t know, you tell me, is it? I’m just here to listen tonight, not respond. I don’t know, sometimes I think we can make it work, and other times…I just don’t know.[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]10.[/sIZE][/FONT] [sIZE=3][FONT=Calibri]As far as what we should do about it, I think we should discuss that in person. We both need to just be open and honest and go from there. I asked, from a scale of 1-10, 10 being 100% honest, where do you think you where tonight? 10[/FONT][/sIZE]

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3]And that was the end of the meeting. I told her thank you for helping me understand where she’s coming from better. She got up, and went back to her computer and ear buds.[/sIZE][/FONT]

[Moose]

I finally got all this typed out. Each point (10 total) I asked her about with the promise that I won't get mad or upset. I'm just here to listen. Anything in quations was in the email. Anything underlined is me asking for specifics. Anything else is her response:

 

1.“You aren’t here for us except financially. You go to work come home and depending on the weather; you go to your office or to the garage.” Going there right after work is not so bad. Staying there all night is.

 

2.“You don’t spend any “family time” with us. You don’t even eat with us. I’ve tried talking to you over and over about it. I’ve hinted around about it.” It’s like the kids and I want to have fun but it gets on your nerves. It’s as if you don’t know how to have fun and you’re in your own world. I feel like we’re roommates and that isn’t going to change, I feel emptiness with you. The kids are my only fun, besides that I’m always alone, I’m just your maid and nanny taking care of the kids and this includes, “dinner time”

 

3.“You call your personal spaces your family avoidance center.” I don’t think you’re joking when you say that. I truly believe you use the garage and office to avoid us.

 

4.“You know why the kids don’t respect you? It’s cause you say one thing and do another. They don’t believe you and frankly neither do I. We are tired of constant disappointment.” You promise to take us fishing, camping and it never happens. That’s just one thing. I paused and asked, “You said that just one thing. Can you think of anything else?” All that I can think of from the top of my head.

 

5. “You’ve pushed us away too long. I wanted to try one last time yesterday with that card but I got my answer as usual.” I asked her, “so, does that mean you’re done? You said “one last time”. I’m not giving up on anything. I just don’t want to get hurt.

 

6.“I’ve been rejected too many times. I’m tired of fighting for your attention.” I asked if this went back to #1 and re-read #1 to her, then asked if she meant something else. She just stared at the ground and wouldn’t answer. So I moved on to 7.

 

7.“I came out and told you what I needed point blank and practically begged you to do something, anything that showed me I was still the most important thing in your world. All I got was, “Not now, my show is on” and “I’m not going to bend over backwards to make you happy.” I asked and referred back to her comment about her saying “You chose to hear whatever you want to hear”, then asked her if she felt that the reverse could be true. I’m sure it can be, I’m not saying it can’t”

 

8.“If you came to me like that after telling me what I told you I’d be doing everything in my power to win you over.” If you came to me in tears like I did that night I would’ve held you in my arms and ask what I could do to make it better.

 

9.“I really don’t think you are in this anymore. I think deep down you want out but don’t want to be the one that walks away. I really think we both feel that way right now. I asked if this is still an accurate statement. I don’t know, you tell me, is it? I’m just here to listen tonight, not respond. I don’t know, sometimes I think we can make it work, and other times…I just don’t know.

 

10. As far as what we should do about it, I think we should discuss that in person. We both need to just be open and honest and go from there. I asked, from a scale of 1-10, 10 being 100% honest, where do you think you where tonight? 10

 

And that was the end of the meeting. I told her thank you for helping me understand where she’s coming from better. She got up, and went back to her computer and ear buds.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Moose