Just a rebuttal...

[nofool4u]

Adultery IS the cause of a failed marriage, and shows the cheater's jacked up personality.

 

Exactly right. The marriage hasn't failed until its dissolved. Until then its simply marriage with problems.

 

Adultery in most cases causes one to dissolve the marriage, hence fail.

 

And adultery needn't be present because of a marriage that is in peril. Adultery alot of times is the symptom of someone with lousy character. Someone that simply gets bored of screwing the same person for the rest of their life.

[Marcpatrick]

Marriage and cheating is symptomatic of the way today's society is put together. In a world that's ever-changing - not just with technology, but with ethics and rules, doesn't it seem a little strange that we get married and make a vow that we will remain with that person for the rest of our natural lives?

 

Of course, many people allow themselves to be brainwashed by the media and by social convention (typically young people, but older people can fall into this trap too), and have some kind of vision of a perfect relationship where two people communicate and never cheat or lie to each other. Because 'honesty' is the most important thing in a relationship.

 

I agree that honesty is important, but in my experience those who demand complete truth and honesty from their spouses tend to have very explosive reactions when they hear something they don't agree with. After a while you stop communicating because it fails to achieve anything, except anger and tears.

 

If you've been cheated on, it's a bummer, but it's not the end of the world. Your spouse has enjoyed sexual relations with someone other than yourself, and they tried to cover it up because they knew you would overreact and make a mountain out of a molehill. Is it that big a problem?

 

Once we stop reacting like drama-queens about cheating and look at any particular situation analytically, there are ways of fixing a marriage without jumping to character assassinations and condemnations.

 

Marriage, as an institution, has to become flexible and adapt with the times - who knows? Maybe in a generation or two, it will be completely normal to have a husband/wife AND a lover or two.

[donnamaybe]

Let me know how YOUR "drama queen" act plays out when your spouse brings you home an STD from some douchebag she screwed behind your back.

[bentnotbroken]

Marriage and cheating is symptomatic of the way today's society is put together. In a world that's ever-changing - not just with technology, but with ethics and rules, doesn't it seem a little strange that we get married and make a vow that we will remain with that person for the rest of our natural lives?

 

Of course, many people allow themselves to be brainwashed by the media and by social convention (typically young people, but older people can fall into this trap too), and have some kind of vision of a perfect relationship where two people communicate and never cheat or lie to each other. Because 'honesty' is the most important thing in a relationship.

 

I agree that honesty is important, but in my experience those who demand complete truth and honesty from their spouses tend to have very explosive reactions when they hear something they don't agree with. After a while you stop communicating because it fails to achieve anything, except anger and tears.

 

If you've been cheated on, it's a bummer, but it's not the end of the world. Your spouse has enjoyed sexual relations with someone other than yourself, and they tried to cover it up because they knew you would overreact and make a mountain out of a molehill. Is it that big a problem?

 

Once we stop reacting like drama-queens about cheating and look at any particular situation analytically, there are ways of fixing a marriage without jumping to character assassinations and condemnations.

 

Marriage, as an institution, has to become flexible and adapt with the times - who knows? Maybe in a generation or two, it will be completely normal to have a husband/wife AND a lover or two.

 

 

It is indeed flexible. I found a lot of things out after Mr. Messy cheated on me and exposed me to STD's. I found out that I good at flexing my muscle and filing for divorce. I don't need crotch rot to be flexible.

[Marcpatrick]

Yes, I agree that STDs can be a problem. I'm certainly not advocating cheating or apologising for it; I am definitely for protected sex, and even though I've been with my girlfriend for over four years we still use protection (although I do realise that protection isn't 100% safe).

 

However, apart from STDs, most of which should be treatable eventually, cheating is a human failing, much like burping. We try to suppress it, but it still manages to surface. I just think we should adopt a softer attitude towards it rather than zero-tolerance. But more importantly, we can do a lot to prevent cheating simply by talking about it before getting married.

 

My partner and I have discussed it and while neither of us would be happy if the other cheated, we know that we would be able to talk about it in an adult way. Everything in life is negotiable. Cheating can be avoided if it's confronted ahead of time, rather than when two people enter a marriage convinced that their feelings for each other will sustain it until the end.

 

When cheating occurs the BS often feels 'cheated' because their partner went elsewhere for solace. This is a silly attitude to adopt, because if we're being realistic, no one person can be everything for another. It's exhausting and unromantic.

[bentnotbroken]

Yes, I agree that STDs can be a problem. I'm certainly not advocating cheating or apologising for it; I am definitely for protected sex, and even though I've been with my girlfriend for over four years we still use protection (although I do realise that protection isn't 100% safe).

 

However, apart from STDs, most of which should be treatable eventually, cheating is a human failing, much like burping. We try to suppress it, but it still manages to surface. I just think we should adopt a softer attitude towards it rather than zero-tolerance. But more importantly, we can do a lot to prevent cheating simply by talking about it before getting married.

 

My partner and I have discussed it and while neither of us would be happy if the other cheated, we know that we would be able to talk about it in an adult way. Everything in life is negotiable. Cheating can be avoided if it's confronted ahead of time, rather than when two people enter a marriage convinced that their feelings for each other will sustain it until the end.

 

When cheating occurs the BS often feels 'cheated' because their partner went elsewhere for solace. This is a silly attitude to adopt, because if we're being realistic, no one person can be everything for another. It's exhausting and unromantic.

 

 

I do not wish one person to be everything to me. I am more than enough for myself:rolleyes:. But cheat and you can exit stage left. Preferable with a boot up your behind but walking normally will do just fine.

[Owl]

Yes, I agree that STDs can be a problem. I'm certainly not advocating cheating or apologising for it; I am definitely for protected sex, and even though I've been with my girlfriend for over four years we still use protection (although I do realise that protection isn't 100% safe).

 

However, apart from STDs, most of which should be treatable eventually, cheating is a human failing, much like burping. We try to suppress it, but it still manages to surface. I just think we should adopt a softer attitude towards it rather than zero-tolerance. But more importantly, we can do a lot to prevent cheating simply by talking about it before getting married.

 

My partner and I have discussed it and while neither of us would be happy if the other cheated, we know that we would be able to talk about it in an adult way. Everything in life is negotiable. Cheating can be avoided if it's confronted ahead of time, rather than when two people enter a marriage convinced that their feelings for each other will sustain it until the end.

 

When cheating occurs the BS often feels 'cheated' because their partner went elsewhere for solace. This is a silly attitude to adopt, because if we're being realistic, no one person can be everything for another. It's exhausting and unromantic.

 

Let us know how your solution with your partner works out for you. From what I've learned, it sounds a lot like communism...a great concept on paper, but typically impossible to implement "in real life".

 

So if your partner cheats...you won't be upset because they went elsewhere for solace? You'll be "above that" somehow? Hope that works for you.

[123321]

Ahhhh. Couldn't come up with one then.

 

As I said, first things first, cart, horse, etc. however no fault divorce probably has a lot to do with it. So does our Hollywood media culture.

 

 

 

In the example I cited, it was the cause of the failed marriage. Well, not quite actually. The CHEATER was the cause of the failed marriage. The cheating is the symptom of a person lacking integrity.

 

I've known a few cases where cheating happened, in fact the most interesting was a case where BOTH cheated on each other. In every case the marriage was broken in some way before the cheating happened. I stand by my statement, cheating and other bad behaviors is usually a symptom of a bad marriage, not a cause.

 

Think about it, how many actually get married and then cheat the next week? Almost none, and those that do I'd agree are just broken people but they are a minority. When a marriage goes bad people do all sorts of things and some of those things are pretty reprehensible. I'm not excusing those things, I'm merely saying that effects have causes and it's valuable to understand the root cause of things.

 

 

 

Adultery IS the cause of a failed marriage, and shows the cheater's jacked up personality.

 

You've historically shown an incredible inability to use logic in forming conclusions, until you fix that I don't see much use in using logic with you.

[donnamaybe]

I've known a few cases where cheating happened, in fact the most interesting was a case where BOTH cheated on each other. In every case the marriage was broken in some way before the cheating happened. I stand by my statement, cheating and other bad behaviors is usually a symptom of a bad marriage, not a cause.

But for someone who cheats ONLY out of a want for variety, that want won't set in immediately as the M is fresh for some time. That's a no brainer. Still, the cheating as a result ONLY of wanting variety is a fact in the case I cited and, I suspect, in many others as well.

[Stellar Wench]

Marc Patrick Might be related to Ashley Madison.

[frozensprouts]

However, apart from STDs, most of which should be treatable eventually, cheating is a human failing, much like burping. We try to suppress it, but it still manages to surface. I just think we should adopt a softer attitude towards it rather than zero-tolerance. But more importantly, we can do a lot to prevent cheating simply by talking about it before getting married.

 

:laugh::laugh:

 

personally, i find the "it's human nature, so it's okay"...argument to be kind of sad ( but the burping analogy was funny..my god i'm immature:laugh:)

 

there are an awful lot of things that could be considered to be "human nature" or "human failings" that are hurtful so we don't condone them, nor do we believe that we need to take a softer approach to them.

 

It might be human nature or a human failing if I want to kick the person who annoys me, or if i want to steal the pretty necklace in the shop window, or tell off-in a rude voice- the pokey person in front of me in the checkout line who pays in nickles and dime, but I don't. I don't because doing so would be hurtful to them, and i don't have the right to hurt others for my own pleasure or to relieve my frustrations.

While cheating may cause pain that is more emotional than physical ( but it can also be very painful physically)it none the less causes pain. Some how placing the blame at the feet of the person who's been betrayed is pretty unfair...you do this when you say that they would hurt less if the just accepted it, were more tolerant, etc. Would me kicking you hurt any less if I just talked to you about it first and told you to be more tolerant?

 

I'd like to believe that we are more than just a sum total of our "human nature", and that we have evolved enough to rise above some of our more hurtful instincts...

( in keeping with burping analogy...there is a time and place for it, just like there is a time and place for relationships. Just like you wouldn't go and burp in someone's face or in front of a crowded room ( one would hope you'd excuse yourself and go elsewhere to burp), the same can be said for relationships. If you feel the need to cheat, then tell your spouse and go else where ( end one relationship before starting another )

 

and i'll know i'll be accused of black and white thinking for saying that, but too bad:laugh:

[frozensprouts]

Marriage and cheating is symptomatic of the way today's society is put together. In a world that's ever-changing - not just with technology, but with ethics and rules, doesn't it seem a little strange that we get married and make a vow that we will remain with that person for the rest of our natural lives?

 

Of course, many people allow themselves to be brainwashed by the media and by social convention (typically young people, but older people can fall into this trap too), and have some kind of vision of a perfect relationship where two people communicate and never cheat or lie to each other. Because 'honesty' is the most important thing in a relationship.

 

I agree that honesty is important, but in my experience those who demand complete truth and honesty from their spouses tend to have very explosive reactions when they hear something they don't agree with. After a while you stop communicating because it fails to achieve anything, except anger and tears.

 

If you've been cheated on, it's a bummer, but it's not the end of the world. Your spouse has enjoyed sexual relations with someone other than yourself, and they tried to cover it up because they knew you would overreact and make a mountain out of a molehill. Is it that big a problem?

 

Once we stop reacting like drama-queens about cheating and look at any particular situation analytically, there are ways of fixing a marriage without jumping to character assassinations and condemnations.

 

Marriage, as an institution, has to become flexible and adapt with the times - who knows? Maybe in a generation or two, it will be completely normal to have a husband/wife AND a lover or two.

 

 

I once read a post on here by a guy who had lived through the "free love" generation, during which most of the people were sleeping around, following the "if it feels good, then do it" thing...monogamy was not popular in his crowd

 

turns out, when he ran into some of these old friends today, they were pretty much all married...

 

from his understanding, it wasn't due to social convention or anything,it was just what they had wanted to do...

 

I really think that there are those out there who would have us believe that monogamy is somehow "bad" or suppressing our natural urges. for some, that may be true, for them, monogamy would be wrong, so for them, marriage is a poor choice. for others, monogamy is right, so marriage would be a good choice.

 

what i am saying is that if you know you can't be monogamous, why get married? why not just have your relationship, and when it ends, have another? be honest with yourself and your partner...

[123321]

But for someone who cheats ONLY out of a want for variety, that want won't set in immediately as the M is fresh for some time. That's a no brainer. Still, the cheating as a result ONLY of wanting variety is a fact in the case I cited and, I suspect, in many others as well.

 

But but but.

 

Did they not date first before getting married?

[donnamaybe]

Great posts FS!

 

All that talk of just accepting it so it will hurt less reminds me of a former poster who said, basically, that people should lower their expectations so that when their partner cheats it won't hurt them so much.

 

Ludicrous...

[donnamaybe]

But but but.

 

Did they not date first before getting married?

 

I don't have any idea how long they dated. People like this guy (and remember that I know them both personally, not you) are the type to constantly need to be ego stroked. Once the conquest was made (she married him) the stroking wasn't special any more. Oh, he bragged to all the guys about his "perfect wife" but he still wanted a side piece so he could feel like some kind of omnipotent god. You can keep trying to throw a monkey wrench in my logic but I know these people, not you, and I am certain this same scenario plays out with many different couples.

 

Now you can spare me further grilling on the subject. I know what I know. End of story.

[123321]

I know these people, not you, and I am certain this same scenario plays out with many different couples.

 

I guess my social circle includes a different sort of persons than yours does then, because while I'm sure what you describe happens, I've never really seen it and I suspect it's rare, but maybe only rare in the sort of people I choose as friends, acquaintances, and associates.

[Bellechica]

It is misleading that this site is a place for all parties affected by infidelity....I believe anyone who comes here already knows how terrible and distructive it is but the site should not appear as a place where "all" are welcome to discuss. It's a very religious, condemning place here....not one where WS and OP cam come without feeling condemned. Don't you get we feel sick already and want to stop but there is no "one" simple solution for each person's situation. No one has walked in another's shoes.

[Bellechica]

Thank you for your post but all I've primarily been made to feel like I'm a harlot and that choice to not disclose my A is wrong but ppl here dont get that I feel remorse I'm trying to fix things. There isn't only ONE solution

[JustJoe]

Thank you for your post but all I've primarily been made to feel like I'm a harlot and that choice to not disclose my A is wrong but ppl here dont get that I feel remorse I'm trying to fix things. There isn't only ONE solution

You are dead wrong, Bella. There IS only one solution and the choice is simple. Either you have an honest relationship or you don't. All the rest of this is beside the point. Disclosure is for both your benefit and your husband's and if you can't see that , then you are deluded. BTW, nobody has called you a harlot, your making this up to get sympathy. This thread hasn't been about you finding help, it has been about you wanting us to validate your decision to continue to lie and deceive your husband . Very few posters will support a liar.

[JustJoe]

Look, Bella, I was in an affair myself, so I know what I'm talking about. Just look at some of the various sites concerned with infidelity, and you will see that the chances of this not EVER being found out, are almost nil, long-term. It may be months, or years away but your husband will find out and it will be a million times worse than if he hears about it from you.

[bentnotbroken]

Thank you for your post but all I've primarily been made to feel like I'm a harlot and that choice to not disclose my A is wrong but ppl here dont get that I feel remorse I'm trying to fix things. There isn't only ONE solution

 

 

Remorse does not equal doing the right thing. We all do things that we are remorseful for. One can only make it right by facing(admission), accepting(being responsible for the actions and the consequences), apologizing(for the actual thing you did to the actual person) and working toward reconciliation and a healthier you. If for one minute you think you can skip one or more of these steps and get to the person you want to be, you are lying to yourself.

 

No one has called you harlot those are your own condemning thoughts. Have you read the responses you received elsewhere? Were they telling you anything different than the responses here? Seriously, what is it you want people to say? It is okay to lie to the person you want to build a new life with? Is that what you think most people want in their lives? To be lied to on a daily basis? People here on all sides of the triangle have told you the same thing. Does it appear odd to you that people on different sites, from differing regions, backgrounds, educational levels, religions or no religions are telling you the same thing? It is called basic human decency and you want to get to the jewel without digging through all the dirt. Life does not work that way.

[findingnemo]

But Belle, you've been given a number of sites to check out where you can find ideas on building your M, etc. Why insist on posting time and again how much you're being attacked here? You're not being attacked as far as I can see. No one called you a harlot...at least not on your thread unless it happened somewhere else.

 

I thought you'd left the site as you threatened to do so in your thread. I'm glad you haven't and I hope IC will help you see what we are trying to get through to you.

[donnamaybe]

I guess my social circle includes a different sort of persons than yours does then, because while I'm sure what you describe happens, I've never really seen it and I suspect it's rare, but maybe only rare in the sort of people I choose as friends, acquaintances, and associates.

Actually, the guy's sisters are my friends which is why I know him and his ex-wife. He tried to get in my pants as well, by the way. I grew up riding horses with the sisters. They had a family of girls and one boy, so I'm thinking perhaps the mom and/or dad raised him thinking he was the little "prince" of the family which contributed to his sense of entitlement. He's a good looking guy who is confident and cocky which can draw women in. He is very competetive as well and crows about his victories, granted in a good natured way, but still. So, no. I don't have him in my "circle of friends," but it's not like I'm NOT going to be friends with his sisters just because of him. So don't go thinking I have shyte friends who run amok and screw around on their spouses. I don't keep friends of such low class.

[findingnemo]

Great posts FS!

 

All that talk of just accepting it so it will hurt less reminds me of a former poster who said, basically, that people should lower their expectations so that when their partner cheats it won't hurt them so much.

 

Ludicrous...

 

You know many people think like that right? It's like telling a mother to lower her expectations that all her children will survive into old age so that if one of them dies, it hurts less.

[nofool4u]

It is misleading that this site is a place for all parties affected by infidelity

 

No, it isn't. You just like the responses you are getting. There are all sorts of people here. People that have been betrayed, the ones doing the betraying, people that like to sleep with other peoples' spouses, etc.

 

 

 

....I believe anyone who comes here already knows how terrible and distructive it is but the site should not appear as a place where "all" are welcome to discuss.

 

It is. Sorry if you don't like that people are telling you that your husband deserves to know you cheated on him.

 

 

It's a very religious, condemning place here

 

No more condemning than the disrespect you exhibit towards your H by cheating on him, and then deciding to keep him in the dark and lie to him.

 

 

....not one where WS and OP cam come without feeling condemned.

 

You would have many more that wouldn't, in your opinion, condemn you if you wanted to do the right thing. Ending your affair isn't enough. You now have a husband that doesn't know you whatsoever.

 

 

Don't you get we feel sick already and want to stop but there is no "one" simple solution for each person's situation. No one has walked in another's shoes.

 

We get it. What you don't get is you simply don't like the advice you are given.

 

You have a predetermined choice on how you are going to handle your continued disrespect of your husband. So why even bother posting any longer?