Has it really come to this?

[Imajerk17]

I was reading a book on some historical figures. All those obstacles in their ways and yet they got past them. So much drive and determination. Those men weren't perfect, but they wouldn't stop at anything until they realized their vision.

 

Well, here in Loveshack 2012 we have a different brand of masculinity at display here. It really came to a head this weekend. The Lovable Losers were whining and whimpering more than ever, like puppy dogs who couldn't get a treat. The level of self-pity they displayed on at least one thread was embarrassing and disgusting.

 

There is a huge irony here. The young woman who wrote the thread (a very good question on her part I must say--she wants to expand her dating circle without leading anyone on--both smart AND considerate) had her own hardship (by her own admission) but she overcame it. See, she admitted herself that in a past life, that she was once way overweight. And yet, instead of wallowing and self-pity and complaining about how "men can't see past that to her inner beauty", she had actually done something about it. Things like going to the gym and working out, and eating right. I have to say, as someone who was a skinny weak kid and self-conscious as hell about that growing up (and who is now in terrific shape), I think that took A LOT of courage on her part to do so and I really salute her for that. It must have been really really really hard starting out going to the gym (it was for me anyway). And yet she did it, and she stuck with it. And now men are asking her out left and right. She is just learning how to manage that new-found success.

 

So she had hardship, but unlike the Lovable Losers, she took action to overcome it. How could she dare any one of most of the guys who responded to her thread? It would never work, because she has bigger balls than they do.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Imajerk17

[Cracker Jack]

Really, I think it just comes down to how much someone wants it. It's much easier to complain about how things are unfair instead of actually doing something about it. In the past, all I did was complain (IE women don't like me because I'm too nice, not tall enough, etc), and the more I did it, the more bitter I had become. It was just the convenient thing for me to do, and nothing changed for the better at all.

 

I think it's possible for anyone to change their situation. You just have to really want it, and be willing to step out of your comfort zone and understand that it's not an overnight process. I hope most of the struggling guys on here actually change their mindset and stop being so bitter. I'd enjoy reading topics on how this guy or that guy is pulling women instead of the same repetitive topics you see here about women.

[jobaba]

It's true. Getting a woman for some guys is analogous to accomplishing a feat ... getting into a good school, mastering an instrument, starting a successful business, etc. It takes determination and drive. Hard work, perseverance, and becoming hardened to rejection.

 

I've always thought of my own life this way. Each time I'm able to get a woman, it's a huge accomplishment for me. It's not something that comes easy or often for me, and I have to deal with lots of rejection in the interim. Something I try and impart to the 'guys' here.

 

Work harder and pursue and it WILL happen. The more you get rejected, the sooner it will happen. I mean, there are some men here who do whine, but I tend to sympathize with them more because that's where I came from? Understand?

 

But women are just as bad when they take their ease in getting dates for granted. When women think they are entitled to the very best men because of their god given good looks, and the fact that they have a mediocre bachelors degree and are able to complete a proper sentence in English, it's a little harder for me to stomach. But I'm getting there...

[Imajerk17]

Last paragraph in my thread: replace "dare" with "date". As in "How could she date any of these...". Typo on my part...

 

Everyone has a right to go for what they want. Whether it's "reasonable" or not. As long as they don't lead anyone on or take advantage that is.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Imajerk17

[fortyninethousand322]

I was reading a book on some historical figures. All those obstacles in their ways and yet they got past them. So much drive and determination. Those men weren't perfect, but they wouldn't stop at anything until they realized their vision.

 

Well, here in Loveshack 2012 we have a different brand of masculinity at display here. It really came to a head this weekend. The Lovable Losers were whining and whimpering more than ever, like puppy dogs who couldn't get a treat. The level of self-pity they displayed on at least one thread was embarrassing and disgusting.

 

There is a huge irony here. The young woman who wrote the thread (a very good question on her part I must say--she wants to expand her dating circle without leading anyone on--both smart AND considerate) had her own hardship (by her own admission) but she overcame it. See, she admitted herself that in a past life, that she was once way overweight. And yet, instead of wallowing and self-pity and complaining about how "men can't see past that to her inner beauty", she had actually done something about it. Things like going to the gym and working out, and eating right. I have to say, as someone who was a skinny weak kid and self-conscious as hell about that growing up (and who is now in terrific shape), I think that took A LOT of courage on her part to do so and I really salute her for that. It must have been really really really hard starting out going to the gym (it was for me anyway). And yet she did it, and she stuck with it. And now men are asking her out left and right. She is just learning how to manage that new-found success.

 

So she had hardship, but unlike the Lovable Losers, she took action to overcome it. How could she dare any one of most of the guys who responded to her thread? It would never work, because she has bigger balls than they do.

 

I think taking action on your physical attributes is a lot easier than taking action on psychological issues mostly because their more visible. I think I'd rather be a fat guy and have that be my only issue than be a guy who just doesn't know how to talk to women and is downright scared of them like I am.

 

The thing for me is that I'll try fail for some reason, and then go into a cocoon for a while distrustful of every woman I meet, or I'll get way too negative in how I view things (believing she's got a boyfriend or she'll never be into me etc.).

 

Personally, I've thrown in the towel. Whatever hard work it takes for me to get better is simply not something I want to work on right now. Maybe later at some point but I'm done for a while. I certainly salute others who want to keep working on things, but I'm just not personally feeling it.

[ThaWholigan]

Times are different now, and much of the hardships that men may have had to overcome are not prevalent at this point. As a result, even the most menial of challenges seems like mountains when they are really molehills. With attracting women, I must say that women have changed even in the last 10-15 years, and I can imagine that there is an impact in relations between some men and women. However, "obstacles" are there to be overcome, and I too am a little disheartened at how ineffective guys can be when it comes to conditioning themselves with the mental discipline to combat their anxieties. Nobody will completely rid themselves of fear, but one must act regardless of that, and keep going.

[jobaba]

Everyone has a right to go for what they want. Whether it's "reasonable" or not. As long as they don't lead anyone on or take advantage that is.

 

That's true.

 

Anyway, the best strategy is probably not to think about how other people approach dating. I'm teaching myself not to care when people make incredibly shallow and arrogant statements regarding what they 'deserve'. If I can ignore it here, I can ignore it in real life.

 

But, as for the 'loveable losers', what you say is true ... but I still feel for guys like that. After all, I've been there...

[Imajerk17]

How old are you, 23? 33? No matter, you're too young to give up!

 

When I was 23 years old, I had kissed one girl in my life up to that point--when I was 20. She "dumped" me soon after when I started acting as if she was my girlfriend (yes over a single kiss) and I became super-needy. It caused me to almost flunk out of school.

 

So I know pain with women. Difference was I knew what life I wanted for myself and that I was willing to do what it takes to get there.

[somedude81]

Are you seriously comparing a girl working out and losing weight to a man who has dating troubles?

 

If a big girl has trouble finding men to date. The solution is obvious. How to achieve that goal is simple.

 

Can the same be said of The Lovable Losers? What is their solution. How do they achieve that goal?

 

And no, I'm not saying that losing weight isn't a big accomplishment.

[fortyninethousand322]

How old are you, 23? 33? No matter, you're too young to give up!

 

When I was 23 years old, I had kissed one girl in my life up to that point--when I was 20. She "dumped" me soon after when I started acting as if she was my girlfriend (yes over a single kiss) and I became super-needy. It caused me to almost flunk out of school.

 

So I know pain with women. Difference was I knew what life I wanted for myself and that I was willing to do what it takes to get there.

 

I'm assuming this is directed at me. I'll be 24 in a few weeks.

 

It's not that I'm "giving up" so to speak, it's just that right now I have too many other things to worry about. I need to find a job, I need to save money to get my own place, and I'm worried about this country (and world) going to hell in a handbasket and I'm trying to do what I can to prevent that. Judging by how things are going the last bit is proving to be very difficult.

 

Point is, I have other things that require my attention that are more important than trying to get better with women. Assuming, of course that it was even possible.

[Imajerk17]

Approach 30 girls in one week for starters. Even if it means you have to spend your lunch hours and evenings at the mall. Or drive to your nearest big city.

 

It's not that hard, it's not even 5 a day!

 

Put up an online dating profile and write 15 girls a night. Dust will disagree with me on this, but the goal is to get as much practice as you can.

 

Meanwhile, stop coming on here to whine. You'll feel a hell of a lot better taking some constructive action...

[ThaWholigan]

Are you seriously comparing a girl working out and losing weight to a man who has dating troubles?

 

If a big girl has trouble finding men to date. The solution is obvious. How to achieve that goal is simple.

 

Can the same be said of The Lovable Losers? What is their solution. How do they achieve that goal?

 

And no, I'm not saying that losing weight isn't a big accomplishment.

 

The solution is internal. Reconditioning. Basically to stop thinking of oneself as a loser.

[ditzchic]

The solution is internal. Reconditioning. Basically to stop thinking of oneself as a loser.

 

It's the same with losing weight. People rarely get morbidly obese because they are happy with themselves. There is almost always an underlying emotional issue to it. Weight is most often a symptom of someone's troubles. Not the cause.

 

I hate tooting my own horn about this, I really do, but it wasn't just a matter of eating better and going to the gym. It was learning to think of myself as an entirely different person. Someone who deserved to be happy and healthy. I had to fight my own demons, learn my worth, and then prove that worth to myself. That was the toughest part.

[ThaWholigan]

It's the same with losing weight. People rarely get morbidly obese because they are happy with themselves. There is almost always an underlying emotional issue to it. Weight is most often a symptom of someone's troubles. Not the cause.

 

I hate tooting my own horn about this, I really do, but it wasn't just a matter of eating better and going to the gym. It was learning to think of myself as an entirely different person. Someone who deserved to be happy and healthy. I had to fight my own demons, learn my worth, and then prove that worth to myself. That was the toughest part.

 

Completely agree, and I commend your willpower, it is the same thing I have been doing, and becoming more successful at it by the day.

[FitChick]

Perseverance is key to just about every success in any area. If you don't try, you don't get. If you keep trying, you might get. If you still don't get, tell yourself you gave it your best shot, and you won't torture yourself with "If only I'd...."

 

Men in their twenties should channel their sexual energy into work and career anyway. Then they will get better quality women in their thirties.

 

I wonder if most of these whiners had fathers in the home when they were growing up.

[fishtaco]

I think taking action on your physical attributes is a lot easier than taking action on psychological issues mostly because their more visible. I think I'd rather be a fat guy and have that be my only issue than be a guy who just doesn't know how to talk to women and is downright scared of them like I am.

 

The thing for me is that I'll try fail for some reason, and then go into a cocoon for a while distrustful of every woman I meet, or I'll get way too negative in how I view things (believing she's got a boyfriend or she'll never be into me etc.).

 

Personally, I've thrown in the towel. Whatever hard work it takes for me to get better is simply not something I want to work on right now. Maybe later at some point but I'm done for a while. I certainly salute others who want to keep working on things, but I'm just not personally feeling it.

 

Well, I have bad genetics. So getting to the physical shape I want without steroids seems to be more difficult than changing myself psychologically. But it may just be the results of the genetic lottery I got; I have more mental control over physical control. Either way, my mental transformation wasn't a walk in the park either. Took many years, lots of self doubt, walking into the strange and scary unknown. But I did. I changed.

 

However, a lot of the times, we may not have reached our goals, but along the way, the effort we've put in made progressive changes, and those alone, could have been enough to change how you interact with the people around you.

 

I've had women tell me I have a nice body, I don't think so, I'm not fat, but that's it. Not much in terms of muscle or shape. But that's the thing we have to understand. Most women are not looking for the best of the best. The ones that do, you should stay away from anyway. Through your self improvement, if you manage to land somewhere in "average", you're pretty much good to go. Average will get average success, which is not bad unless you want to sleep with 10,000 women before you die.

 

The most important currency in the whole world is time. When I see people give up and throw in the towel, it is valuable time slipping by.

 

But change is difficult. We all need the right "kick in the ass". Maybe you haven't reached yours. Only thing I can say is, keep going at it, and even if you don't reach your goal, you will enjoy progressive results. It's not all-or-nothing.

[verhrzn]

I can't speak for other whiners, but for me, it's always come down to an issue of not knowing how to go about changing what's wrong (or heck, sometimes identifying what's wrong.)

 

I've spent YEARS trying to figure out how to exercise correctly and lose weight, and it's only within the last few months that I found a philosophy that made sense to me and is kind-of-sort-of working.

 

As far as dating goes, I am at a total loss. Most of the lady-books out there are filled with useless, new-age fluff that don't offer any concrete advice. Most of the advice I see given to women is "be more attractive," in addition to lots of conflicting pieces (be needy but not too independent, be feminine but not feminine in a way that makes you look weak, be confident but not intimidating.) Well I have reached the pinnacle of my physical attractiveness, and nothing is happening, and the rest is vague hogwash. So now what?

[ThaWholigan]

I can't speak for other whiners, but for me, it's always come down to an issue of not knowing how to go about changing what's wrong (or heck, sometimes identifying what's wrong.)

 

I've spent YEARS trying to figure out how to exercise correctly and lose weight, and it's only within the last few months that I found a philosophy that made sense to me and is kind-of-sort-of working.

 

As far as dating goes, I am at a total loss. Most of the lady-books out there are filled with useless, new-age fluff that don't offer any concrete advice. Most of the advice I see given to women is "be more attractive," in addition to lots of conflicting pieces (be needy but not too independent, be feminine but not feminine in a way that makes you look weak, be confident but not intimidating.) Well I have reached the pinnacle of my physical attractiveness, and nothing is happening, and the rest is vague hogwash. So now what?

A famous jazz musician has a really good quote that I have on my wall above my keyboard:

 

Master the instrument, master the music........then forget all that sh*t and just play

 

I try and apply it to everything I learn. I don't make myself so conscious of my improvement, otherwise it won't be fun, I'll be focused on results, especially results I'm not getting. I think physical attractiveness isn't your problem, I think that you are probably thinking too much, and feeding your thought stream with too much stuff that reinforce all the bad things about dating in your life.

 

I won't say try harder, I would say let it all go for a while. When I was trying to socialize in college at first, I tried too hard and thought obsessively about everything at the beginning. However, after a while I didn't put so much thought into it, and I became comfortable with who I was at that time, and it became easy, so much so that I spoke to nearly everyone at the college, despite my anxieties. I was still crap with girls of course, but I determined very early that this had much to do with me and not anything anyone else was doing in particular.

 

Don't think about blaming or faults or that stuff, I would say to not overthink it. I am confident it will begin to look up for you very soon.

[fishtaco]

I can't speak for other whiners, but for me, it's always come down to an issue of not knowing how to go about changing what's wrong (or heck, sometimes identifying what's wrong.)

 

I've spent YEARS trying to figure out how to exercise correctly and lose weight, and it's only within the last few months that I found a philosophy that made sense to me and is kind-of-sort-of working.

 

As far as dating goes, I am at a total loss. Most of the lady-books out there are filled with useless, new-age fluff that don't offer any concrete advice. Most of the advice I see given to women is "be more attractive," in addition to lots of conflicting pieces (be needy but not too independent, be feminine but not feminine in a way that makes you look weak, be confident but not intimidating.) Well I have reached the pinnacle of my physical attractiveness, and nothing is happening, and the rest is vague hogwash. So now what?

 

Welcome to the club, that's how dating is.

 

But congratulations regarding getting into excellent shape. I'm still working on mine.

 

Not sure how to help women, since I'm a guy, but if you look attractive physically, just put yourself out there and you should get guys hitting up on you, although most of them will be junk. So I'd expect the problem to be finding decent guys, as opposed to not getting anything at all.

 

Are you social? How often do you put yourself in situations where new people could meet you?

[verhrzn]

Welcome to the club, that's how dating is.

 

But congratulations regarding getting into excellent shape. I'm still working on mine.

 

Not sure how to help women, since I'm a guy, but if you look attractive physically, just put yourself out there and you should get guys hitting up on you, although most of them will be junk. So I'd expect the problem to be finding decent guys, as opposed to not getting anything at all.

 

Are you social? How often do you put yourself in situations where new people could meet you?

 

I'm not in excellent shape, I'm just healthier. I'm still fat... but I'm much stronger and firmer underneath the fat, and I feel much better physically.

 

See, I've never gotten hit on. I've always been sure it's my looks, but don't mention it around these parts as certain posters are sick of hearing it. But thanks for confirming the fact that an attractive woman will have men hitting on her. It reinforces all those articles that come down to "be prettier, and if you can't, get used to being single."

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean by "put yourself in situations where new people could meet you"? Do I stand on the corner and hand out fliers, you mean? What "situations" does a person meet new people in, exactly? I go to parties of social circles, but it's usually the same people as the last party, and I go to activities I enjoy and it's all women. So... do those count?

Edited February 6, 2012 by verhrzn

[Dust]

I can't speak for other whiners, but for me, it's always come down to an issue of not knowing how to go about changing what's wrong (or heck, sometimes identifying what's wrong.)

 

You need to get with your male counterpart Somedude81 one so that you can finish driving eachother completely insane.

[thatone]

Perseverance is key to just about every success in any area. If you don't try, you don't get. If you keep trying, you might get. If you still don't get, tell yourself you gave it your best shot, and you won't torture yourself with "If only I'd...."

 

Men in their twenties should channel their sexual energy into work and career anyway. Then they will get better quality women in their thirties.

 

I wonder if most of these whiners had fathers in the home when they were growing up.

 

agree but damn, women in their mid 30s can run you ragged.

 

my new GF had been single for a year, and is hell bent on catching up on everything she's missed as soon as possible. we're both 35. my gradually healing knee injury is suffering for it. good thing i have 'other skills' or i'd be hurting, rather than just tired