Author verhrzn Posted February 8, 2012 Author Posted February 8, 2012 Like I always told you, stop being so negative and stop being so stubborn; But you simply don't wanna listen. Exactly why shouldn't I be negative/defeatist about a life that by any measure isn't worth anything? Just because it happens to be mine? Because it's "the only one I get"? How are those compelling reasons to be happy about a life that has nothing but neutrals and negatives in it? And what exactly am I stubborn about... that I don't see the value in celebrating mediocrity? In praising worthlessness? In believing in the fairy tale of the Emperor's new clothes? Just because I somehow convince myself my life is so awesome, and I'm so awesome, doesn't mean I suddenly AM awesome... it just means I'm suddenly delusional. V, you need to get into therapy for the self hatred issues It is NOT self-hatred. It just isn't self-celebration. It just isn't convincing myself I'm something I'm not. I've been in therapy for nearly a year now, and it hasn't done a single thing to budge me in my conviction that my image of myself is nothing more than a clear-headed diagnosis that... I'm really nothing special. How does that equal self-hatred?
iris219 Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Exactly why shouldn't I be negative/defeatist about a life that by any measure isn't worth anything? Just because it happens to be mine? Because it's "the only one I get"? How are those compelling reasons to be happy about a life that has nothing but neutrals and negatives in it? And what exactly am I stubborn about... that I don't see the value in celebrating mediocrity? In praising worthlessness? In believing in the fairy tale of the Emperor's new clothes? Just because I somehow convince myself my life is so awesome, and I'm so awesome, doesn't mean I suddenly AM awesome... it just means I'm suddenly delusional. It is NOT self-hatred. It just isn't self-celebration. It just isn't convincing myself I'm something I'm not. I've been in therapy for nearly a year now, and it hasn't done a single thing to budge me in my conviction that my image of myself is nothing more than a clear-headed diagnosis that... I'm really nothing special. How does that equal self-hatred? Now you have to learn to accept the boldes. Secure, happy people are accepting of themselves and their limitations. You get to a point where you don't try to be what you aren't and you don't aspire to do more than you're capable of (but you still set reachable goals). And you're OK with yourself. You have two options: accept your life as it is and be grateful or mourn your inadequacies and be miserable. These are your only options. You choose. I think you've become addicted to your misery. It sustains you and separates you from others. Your level of dissatisfaction is anything but mediocre and you're holding on to it for dear life. Do you feel you're not worthy of true happiness? It seems that you're punishing yourself for not being more extraordinary. Your issues go beyond not having a relationship. You seem fundamentally unhappy. Have you considered trying a new therapist? Or make some notes about what others here have noticed and discuss these in your next session. We've got to get you happier! Edited February 8, 2012 by iris219
zengirl Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Failure isn't scary so long as you improve, "grow" in your vocabulary. And what if you don't? What if you keep trying, and continue to fail? You can grow without succeeding at the task at hand. Do you think everyone else doesn't have failures? There are plenty of things I love and suck at. Sometimes I make progress, and sometimes I plateau. I'll always be a terrible singer, but I still love karaoke. I cannot cut straight to save my life, but I still sit down and do crafts with friends. I'm good at some things and bad at others, and sometimes I get better and sometimes I don't. I'd say that's true of just about everyone, including you---whether or not you're "good enough" at anything to please yourself, I'm sure you're good at some things. "Positive" people continue to keep trying because they believe it will pay off... but what if it doesn't? Not really. I mean, yes, to a degree, everyone hopes their efforts will pay off. And, yes, when you're hitting your head against a wall, it's good to realize when something isn't going to pay off. But that's not really related to passions. I think positive people follow their passions for the sake of it, for the journey, and it's focusing on the journey that keeps them positive. Which is not to say we all don't need results sometimes---we do, just to get by. But life can't be ALL about results, and happiness definitely can't be! At what point do you admit to yourself that, geez, you really AREN'T going to get better at this, and that continuing to pursue it would honestly just be a waste of time. Well, if you're speaking of a vocation, I would say: when you cannot afford not to. But we were speaking of passions; I think you stop with a passion when it isn't 'feeding you' -- when it isn't fun, when it isn't empowering, when it isn't joyous. And something doesn't necessarily need to feed your ego to be empowering; that's a weak, cheap kind of empowerment. You can be terrible at something and still have fun, feel empowered, and take joy from it. I certainly have experienced that! I would love to hear from people who are passionate about something while still being fully aware they're awful at it. And I don't mean "awful" to equate to "not a concert pianist." I mean "awful" to equate to "can't bang out Mary Had a Little Lamb on a keyboard." I cannot do arts and crafts at all, really, and I taught Kindergarten. There were students (who don't have fine motor skills yet!) who were better at it than I was. That's pretty bad. It was still fun. Though, frankly, I do not believe you are 'can't bang out Mary Had a Little Lamb' on a keyboard bad at everything you do. You have skills and talents; you just diminish them because you're so addicted to your own misery and self-criticism. It's really very sad. In other words, should one really be happy that they are an unremarkable person? Should someone be accepting of a life that is every direction of boring and ordinary? No one is an "unremarkable" person, in my book. Everyone is pretty unique. I don't know what criteria you set for remarkable, but I do not think there is any 'set' criteria for it. Everyone has a different view. I was raised with the philosophy that I live, I work, I die. That the rewards of this life are "not of this earth." (Think Puritan/traditional Lutheran lifestyles.) That I am nothing extraordinary, and my life on this Earth is a tiny meaningless drop of existence. Now, I'm suddenly being told that to have a normal, human experience (marriage, kids), I have to think myself extraordinary, I have to be happy instead of humble, and passionate instead of hard-working. It's the complete opposite of how I was raised. It's completely alien to me that I should be happy to have a boring, near-worthless life. Nobody says you have to think of yourself as 'extraordinary.' You just have to like yourself. I would never say that happiness and humility or passion and hard work are somehow opposites. I think a degree of humility is required for happiness, really, and I think passion drives us to work harder. You sound like you have a lot of ideas fighting inside of you. I was raised Catholic, so I understand at least some of the teachings; I think they're wrong (for me), but I get it. Buddhism isn't exactly hedonistic either, but at least it has helped me find joy in the moment, as has my affair with Taoism and other Eastern spiritual practices. I think if you're living purely for another life, you'll never be happy in this one, but I do not think spirituality or the existence of other lives necessarily negates the value of this one. And most religions remind you that what you do here matters. You may be small, but you are not meaningless---even Puritans didn't believe that; if they did, there'd be no reason for so many rules. The only idea is that the community or greater good supersedes the individual. That doesn't mean life is meaningless. If you want to have a life of hard work and humility, I think you could find passion and joy in that; I think that sounds nice, even if it comes from a religion I'm not in agreement with---what a lovely thought, to just embrace the simplicity and wholesomeness of purpose. It sounds to me like you don't value that option, though, so why cite it? You can believe and be and do whatever YOU want. And here's what you seem to want---You beat yourself up every chance you get. Well, of course, the Universe will help you out with that; IME, the Universe is very helpful. It will give you more of whatever you want (overall), and if you want misery and criticism and so forth, it will dole it out. It is NOT self-hatred. It just isn't self-celebration. It just isn't convincing myself I'm something I'm not. I've been in therapy for nearly a year now, and it hasn't done a single thing to budge me in my conviction that my image of myself is nothing more than a clear-headed diagnosis that... I'm really nothing special. How does that equal self-hatred? Because you're ANGRY about not being special. And why is that? If you were raised to believe that people aren't special, why should you be? Why is being special important? I don't know if you're special or not -- I don't really know what that means; I think everyone is special, so no one is special, and so forth, really. Why be so mad at yourself for not being something? Where does it get you? No one is saying you should delude yourself, but every single person on Earth -- especially anyone with enough peace and prosperity in their lives to be writing on an internet web forum about their dating life -- has dozens of things to be grateful for. Hell, I'm grateful I have the fingers and knowledge and breath in me to type these words. I think the human body is absolutely miraculous, and anyone who has a healthy body has quite a few things to be thankful for. And you have a lot: you have an education, you have a job, you have the ability to do martial arts, which you love, both physically and the ability to get there logistically and pay for it and so forth. Really, you're ungrateful. You're spiteful, ungrateful, miserable, and wasting your life, and it's a damn shame. I think you've become addicted to your misery. It sustains you and separates you from others. Your level of dissatisfaction is anything but mediocre and you're holding on to it for dear life. Do you feel you're not worthy of true happiness? It seems that you're punishing yourself for not being more extraordinary. I would agree with this.
Author verhrzn Posted February 9, 2012 Author Posted February 9, 2012 Fine. I'm a pathetic, sad, miserable individual, whose opinion of myself and my own life is apparently so bad it offends anonymous strangers who feel the need to tell me, in great detail, that I should have better self-esteem.... Even though they just spent 3 paragraphs telling me what a horrible, awful person I am, and how it totally means I'll end up alone. Everybody satisfied now? Thread closed, since this somehow turned from a discussion of social trends into yet again telling me how much I should stop thinking I suck, even though I totally suck?
xxoo Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 telling me how much I should stop thinking I suck, even though I totally suck? You don't suck. You sound like a smart, independent, interesting young woman. Your attitude sucks. Totally different!
Jane2011 Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) Several of the guys I messaged that I assumed were single were actually poly looking for a third, and said they'd put "single" down because they didn't want to scare anyone off. So glad I discovered this thread. Will really enjoy reading what people have to say. It happens the last guy I got involved with was someone I met on OkCupid. He was listed as "single" and we talked for two weeks online before I found out (not from him telling me but by a random Facebook observation I made) that he was/is the boyfriend of a casual pal/recent ex-classmate of mine. I confronted him about it on the phone, and he confirmed that he was in an open relationship and that his plan was to tell me on our first date. I believed him, but I still said "ehhh...maybe I don't want to meet after all. Kinda awkward since I am sort of a casual friend of your girlfriend." He somehow talked me into meeting up with him anyway. Guess he just really liked me (from our online interaction.) So I met him...long story short...ended up liking him in person. Got involved with him for six weeks. Had sex with him, the whole nine yards. In the first three weeks, I was okay with him having another girlfriend besides me. It didn't faze me because I was the "exciting new person" while she was the girlfriend he was used to...I was intoxicated by the fact that I was exciting to him. But over the last three weeks, I became increasingly bothered by him having another woman besides me, even though I knew her and generally liked her. They were sincerely attempting to be polyamorous. They wanted it all out in the open and to have "communal" love. She even wanted to hang out with me and him together. Long story short...it was just f*cked up. I didn't know what the f*ck I was doing. I thought I could be down with it. I had sex with him, was mentally/emotionally attracted to him, had a great time with him, loved that he treated me so wonderfully (and he did), but I just couldn't play second fiddle to anyone. I can't be someone's one of two. I got out of it. And I still miss the guy. A lot. But what the hell? I just can't do polyamory. I could only be in a situation like that if my feelings weren't that serious for the guy. But he was romancing me big time, and I was falling for him. And he for me (or so he said). Anyway, I couldn't do it. FYI, he is 34 and his girlfriend is 25. I don't think the vast majority people are down with polyamory, though. All of my friends (of varying ages) were all, "WTF? Your love life is so crazy." Edited February 9, 2012 by Jane2011
Jane2011 Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Untouchable_Fire covered this pretty well. For some reason women would rather be a Top % guy's number 4 instead of being the one and only for a guy who isn't as desired. I was with a guy who (in my estimation) was a Top % guy, and I wasn't willing to be his # 2. He tried to convince me that I wasn't his # 2, that I and some other woman were "equal" in his eyes. (He's attempting the polyamorous life -- meaning "equally loving" relationships). But I didn't believe him. I want to be someone's # 1. Or else alone. I'm alone now and I find it better than being that guy's # 2.
counterman Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 I'm in my early 20s and want to be married by the time I'm 30. I want to be with that special someone, share my life with her. I want to fall in love before I have sex. These are all things I want deep down. On the other side of things, I'm improving myself to be the best person I can be and that's going to skyrocket over the next 5 years and more. As I improve, I start noticing how others are plateauing and are just satisfied with what is, even if it's miserable. Out of all the girls I've approached, there was not one I could see myself in a long-term relationship with. Maybe because most of them are in their young 20s and really attractive. Some were really insecure and were constantly down on themselves that it was hard to be around them. Others thought too highly of themselves and, as others have mentioned, thought they deserved the top percentage of guys only. Some complained that they only meet players and douchebags. And some, let's face it, have no clue what to do if a great guy was standing in front of them with his arms wide open. It's a sad picture I paint but I still believe in having a long-term relationship without anything on the side. In saying that, I'm not willing to settle for anything less than an attractive, confident girl who is mature beyond her years, one that I haven't met yet. However, there will come a time where I just won't care anymore and will just stay single while having a lot of meaningless sex, if things continue to go the way they're going. Not saying that's a bad thing but just different to what I had in mind. I'll keep being the best that I can be and living my life and we'll see what happens. My last relationship was full of drama. I was so confident back then, man was I confident. It's funny how I let someone into my heart and everything just shattered. Who wants to deal with that again? Unless I meet someone truly special, then will I think about marriage. Other then that, it's kind of hard to ignore how things are going at the moment. verhrzn, you just need some convincing. If you spend a week, even a day with me, I'll guarantee it'll change your thoughts on this We could all do with some lovin'. In all seriousness, I feel for you and a bit of my heart goes out to you.
veggirl Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 How come you don't move? (did I miss the explanation?)
Author verhrzn Posted February 9, 2012 Author Posted February 9, 2012 How come you don't move? (did I miss the explanation?) Well... move where? I already live in a large city, about 3.2 million people. According to this map I actually live right smack dab in the middle of a high population of single men. My city is ranked within the top 10 US cities for single men. So... I guess I COULD move... but if I can't meet single men in a city that is supposedly loaded with them, how is moving to say, California (which has the other highest-ranked cities), with its incredibly expensive living and female beauty standards, gonna be any better?
binny Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 OP in response to your original post, I have to say that I have noticed the same thing amongst the men I know. Several of my friends/work collegues are in open relationships which I just can't seem to understand.. Don't get me wrong, the women they are dating as just as bad as the men as they are also being promiscuous. I think there are some good men left out there (at least I hope there are!), who knows where they are hiding though
Woggle Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 This is not a problem that is limited to just one gender. Women are just as bad and men looking for real relationships don't have it any easier.
musemaj11 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Marriage is only for poor, sentimental or religious man. Otherwise it serves next to nothing benefit.
veggirl Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Well... move where? I already live in a large city, about 3.2 million people. According to this map I actually live right smack dab in the middle of a high population of single men. My city is ranked within the top 10 US cities for single men. So... I guess I COULD move... but if I can't meet single men in a city that is supposedly loaded with them, how is moving to say, California (which has the other highest-ranked cities), with its incredibly expensive living and female beauty standards, gonna be any better? West Coast. It wouldn't have to be LA where yeah, you'd prob run into a lot of the things you mention. Phoenix... Nevada.... it's different out west than it is on the east coast, maybe you'd fit in better.
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