Is Monogamy and Marriage On The Way Out?

[iris219]

First of all, why do people think it's irrational?? When reproduction drops at such a sharp decline after 30, why SHOULDN'T I be concerned? And for every article out there claiming there aren't any good men, there are about 3 times as many saying that if you're not in a relationship after about mid-30's and end up married, congrats, you're an anomaly and an out liner, because it's extremely rare.

 

Having a positive attitude and being grateful doesn't answer how you give up on wanting the things you don't have, which seems to be my problem. I focus on not having a relationship because I want a relationship. In what mixed-up world does ignoring a problem somehow fix the problem?? If I decided tomorrow to stop focusing on dating, I can practically guarantee I WOULD end up alone... because I'd stop trying! I'd be happy spending most of my free time in my apartment or with friends, and wouldn't do any of the things that you're supposed to do to meet potential boyfriends (OLD, going out to bars and clubs, approaching guys, etc.)

 

Now, if I could just accept that I'm going to be alone forever and never have a family, then it'd be a lot easier to focus on the positives of my life because hey, this is as good as it gets. (Good job, good hobbies, fun social environment.) So does anyone have any suggestions on how to do that.... accept eternal singledom?

 

This a relevant question. Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

V does need to worry about her fertility at 26. I didn't, and I'm almost 33 and childless. I wish I had been concerned with it in my 20's. I'd probably be a single mom at this point or maybe I just would have stayed with the man I almost married years ago. Either way, it would be better than my present situation.

 

People who meet and marry in their thirties and start families are outliers. I don't know any. I wish I did because it would give me some hope.

[xxoo]

Being aware of your health and reading scientific studies is crap?? Is it I'm irrational, or other women are misinformed?

 

You need to compare those stats to the chance of getting pregnant each month in your 20s. The chance of getting pregnant each month is nowhere near 70% at any age, so it doesn't really matter what the average uneducated person believes.

 

Yes, fertility declines after 30. That may mean it takes the average 33 year old couple 6-8 months to get pregnant, rather than 3-4. Is that something to panic about?

 

 

Except I've been involved in my "community" for years and it's yielded nothing. What's the definition of insanity... doing the same things over and over again. If staying in my groups (whose members either couples, married men or single women)

 

THe obvious choice here would be to join groups with single men....

 

How is it possible that the martial arts community has no single men???? THe techie community???? Doesn't sound realistic.

 

Also, you claim "years", but you are only 26, and have been in a couple relationships along the way. How did you meet them?

 

 

And how do I accept being alone now? How do I give up something I desperately want? And why is not acceptable to get wrapped up in thinking the current is the future?

 

This is your real problem. Is a boyfriend a want or a need for your immediate enjoyment of life?

 

It isn't about your thought pattern being acceptable or unacceptable, but rather about it being productive or unproductive for you (not us).

[xxoo]

V does need to worry about her fertility at 26. I didn't, and I'm almost 33 and childless. I wish I had been concerned with it in my 20's. I'd probably be a single mom at this point or maybe I just would have stayed with the man I almost married years ago. Either way, it would be better than my present situation.

 

V could have a child on her own.

 

So could you, Iris. If you'd prefer single motherhood to your current situation, why don't you work on making that happen now?

[ThaWholigan]

All this focus on stats and information that confirm your own negativity is disheartening to watch. It's as bad as reading some of Somedudes posts.

 

Well, I guess if you want to prepare for "eternal singledom" as you put it, you will still have to ignore getting into a relationship regardless. The point is, either way you should be happy......

[verhrzn]

For the record: Of course I am a lot older than you; old enough to be your mom. My socio-economic peers were very prone to finishing school and getting careers and/ or adventures well under way before even getting married, much less having kids. Most of my close friends married in their late 20's or into their mid 30's and had kids in their 30's.

 

There was NOT this overwhelming concern about fertility, though it is true that this generation of late starters also probably launched a big boom in fertility treatments.

 

I still don't think that my peers are sitting around wishing and wallowing in regret that they didn't start breeding sooner.

 

But I am also very familiar with your generation, since I have a daughter in it, and I have ZERO familiarity with even one single person who sits around wallowing in worry about her reproductive condition. Maybe it's a midwest thing.

 

Maybe it's that people are misinformed. Like the articles and studies I linked show (which are studies of a wide range of economic and social types), most young women either assume they don't need to worry because they're already infertile, severely underestimate their own fertility chances, and some are VERY concerned about it but never voice it. Check out the comments on both the articles; they're FILLED with women who share personal stories of how terrified they were that they wouldn't get to have kids because they waited too long.

 

Maybe the young women you know don't care much about having kids. Maybe it's a "yeah that'd be nice," but not big part of their life plan. They are instead super concerned about making it into the top tier of their career, or traveling to lots of different countries. It's only fair to compare me to these girls you know if I and they share the same goals. If their goals in life are different, then no kidding they don't put much thought into their fertility.

 

You don't need to accept eternal singledom. You need to accept today's singledom. Who knows what tomorrow or next week or next month or next year brings. You only need to focus on today and knowing that you have the skills and the good adjustment to take whatever comes at you in the future. It could be more singledom, it could be a ton of fun or it could be the love of your life. Who knows? Who cares? As long as you are happy in today and secure of your abilities for the future it doesn't matter.

 

If you have to fake it until you make it, do it. You'll eventually make it when it becomes a habit.

 

Again, why would things change if I don't fix what's broken? I can't find a relationship because something is wrong. If I don't figure out what that something is, then how can I correct it so I DO have a chance at a relationship in the future? Your advice is good, but it applies to girls who can easily find relationships, and just need to be single for a while.

 

And I'm not happy today because I'm missing a major component of what would make me happy... a relationship. So to be happy, I need to get rid of wanting that. So how do I do that?

[Mme. Chaucer]

Life rarely gives us everything we want, including some of our deepest heart's desires.

 

When you get somewhat older, you will really understand this.

 

I could give a lot of examples, but I know you will refute every one so I am not going to waste my time. I am telling the truth, though.

 

There are a lot of bitter and ugly older people. There are a lot of graceful, grateful older people. Barring those whose lives went just the way they wanted, I think the difference is down to the attitudes of the people, all the way.

[xxoo]

And I'm not happy today because I'm missing a major component of what would make me happy... a relationship. So to be happy, I need to get rid of wanting that. So how do I do that?

 

What is it about a relationship that would allow you to be happy?

 

Does the quality of the relationship matter? The quality of the man? Or do you just need a man--any man--to fill a space in your life that would make you happier?

[Scottdmw]

I give you credit for doing some things many other women will not do--replying to guys with OLD, making an effort to go out to groups to meet people, etc. You're on the right track with that stuff. But especially with the interest groups, if the things you've tried so far aren’t working, by all means try something else. Someone mentioned Meetup.com--it's one of the best resources out there for this. You can see exactly who's going to meetings, and therefore avoid meetups where there are only girls for example.

 

Do spend some time doing things you simply like to do. At some periods of my life I've gotten so focused on trying to find someone that I go to events for that sole purpose, and it doesn't work really well. People can tell if you don't really want to be there and are only doing it to meet people. The VERY BEST events are ones where you would enjoy yourself whether you meet anyone or not but there is also the potential to meet someone.

 

Seriously, I would love to know where your book clubs are that have one man and six women. Around here is often the opposite. I can't tell you how many times I've been disappointed going to a ballroom dance lesson for example and finding way more men than women. There is a lot of variation in these things, some of it geographic. Move to Silicon Valley if you can! Keep trying until you find something that works for you.

 

You sound very worried about weight. It's true it is a serious issue. Many men consider it very important. However, consider how it could be worse. As a man I’m 5’7” and I've often felt it has seriously limited me in dating, I'm 39 years old and I’ve wanted to get married since I was 25. As a man with that issue, I felt that was an even worse situation than a woman with a weight issue. There is almost nothing you can do about height. There ARE frightening surgeries that some men get where they actually break your leg bones, put in a spacer, and let you heal, a process which takes two years and leaves you unable to do much more than walk, in return for 2 extra inches. You are in a better position than that. Losing weight IS possible, albeit extremely difficult for some, and it is healthy if you can do it. My main point here is I can't tell you how many times I wished I could've addressed my issue so “easily.” Consider that, and realize that your situation may not be as bad as you think it is, and that in fact many other people may have it even worse.

 

Best wishes

 

Scott

[xxoo]

Life rarely gives us everything we want, including some of our deepest heart's desires.

 

When you get somewhat older, you will really understand this.

 

I could give a lot of examples, but I know you will refute every one so I am not going to waste my time. I am telling the truth, though.

 

There are a lot of bitter and ugly older people. There are a lot of graceful, grateful older people. Barring those whose lives went just the way they wanted, I think the difference is down to the attitudes of the people, all the way.

 

"It's not having what you want. It's wanting what you've got."

 

The happiest among us can identify

[Mme. Chaucer]

If I seem like I have an axe to grind about all of this, it's because i do.

 

I came to a place in my life where I had to make a conscious choice to make a LOT of effort to be "positive" and to have (cliche warning) an "attitude of gratitude." If I hadn't, I don't think I would even be alive today. Much less have a life that I love.

 

So I feel strongly when I see people vehemently and aggressively embracing the very opposite.

 

I don't perceive that our OP is on a suicidal path of self destruction. Just a slow fade into a sullen, angry hole of bitterness. Either way, the ball is in YOUR court, V, if you want to change your life. And this does NOT mean you are going to drastically change your body, or get the magic boyfriend.

[zengirl]

Or maybe I'm negative cause I'm overwhelmed. When you're constantly being told that the reason you're single is because you're: too slutty, too prudish, too physically unattractive, too loud, too quiet, too naive, too intimidating, too picky, no standards ('too' doesn't even look like a word anymore, does it?), etc, it's kind of hard NOT to be negative.

 

There have been people throughout history and are people today who have faced much worse than you and remained positive. Hell, there are stories of people who were positive in concentration camps. If you allow a positive attitude to be reliant on your circumstances to the degree where dating books can derail it, you honestly don't have much hope of getting one. Life isn't always sunshine and bunnies for positive people, no, but they are better able to cope with life and attract others (for friendships or relationships or whatever) and opportunities because they are reacting in positive ways. The extrinsic benefits of a positive attitude are real, but the main benefit is intrinsic and the motivation needs to come from within.

 

... And no one has yet explained what exactly is the difference between 'negativity' and 'reality.'

 

And that's what makes you negative that you believe reality to be negative. No one is saying you must pretend that life is perfect or you have everything you want, but to spend so much energy painting a negative future is negative. To accept what is now and even to perhaps accept that maybe things won't go as you want them to and that you will still be okay if they don't but hope they will is both positive and realistic. You spend way too much energy dwelling on negative things, though, and that only attracts more negative things.

 

You reference to the secret is interesting. I think that book is bogus in some ways, in terms of the way it mutates the basis for positive attitudes, but I truly do believe and have experienced that having limiting beliefs will limit your happiness and exchanging them for better, more positive and helpful beliefs (which costs nothing!) will enhance your life and bring more positive experiences and happiness. So, I'd say The Secret gets it right and wrong.

 

"The personal is the political." I'm not trying to say that if someone is single, it's not at all their fault, but none of us live in a social vacuum. Dating trends and social issues like the lack of marriage DO effect people. It's fine to call for personal responsibility, but putting everything on the shoulders of an individual when there IS data suggesting a lack of available partners or a disinclination towards monogamy/marriage/children, is just as naive and blind as someone who puts all the blame on society.

 

There isn't really data suggesting that it is harder to get married these days. There is data suggesting less people (men and women!) want to get married these days and less people do, mostly coinciding with the data that shows us more people get divorced these days. People just have options now, but that's not really new anymore. In the 80s, it was still maybe new enough to talk about, but now, it should be old hat, even in the 'burbs. Yes, marriage underwent a change, but it started in the 60s. I don't think we've seen any significant change in even my mother's generation (her first marriage was in the 80s). The data that it's primarily men not wanting to settle down just isn't there. It's women, too.

 

Because I'm 26 and want a family. Fertility takes a sharp nose dive at 30-35... so if I want biological children, I had better get to the family-making.

 

Biological children was never a priority of mine (though I was open to it for some time), so maybe I just cannot understand, but fertility really isn't a huge issue until past 35. I mean. . . you have a decade, almost. That's a LONG time. And what good did worrying ever do anyone even when it was justified? I wouldn't say your worries are really . . . that justified. In fact, marrying later helps with divorce statistics. The ideal age to marry and have a family, statistically (which really doesn't matter) is probably somewhere between 28-32, but many people do it earlier or later and many people in that range will have various issues. There's no . . . perfect age and no real clear expiration date. Fertility rates are also highly individual!

 

At any rate, why do you have to assume the worst case in order to be happy with your life as it is? Why are you so afraid of hope? That's going to bring down your happiness and success tremendously.

[ditzchic]

 

Again, why would things change if I don't fix what's broken? I can't find a relationship because something is wrong. If I don't figure out what that something is, then how can I correct it so I DO have a chance at a relationship in the future? Your advice is good, but it applies to girls who can easily find relationships, and just need to be single for a while.

 

And I'm not happy today because I'm missing a major component of what would make me happy... a relationship. So to be happy, I need to get rid of wanting that. So how do I do that?

 

You're missing the point. Girls that are happy being single for awhile can easily find relationships because they are happy to be single for awhile. No man wants to be your sole provider of happiness. Especially in the dating scene. That stuff comes much much later in a relationship. Girls that are desperate and will cling onto the first man to show them any attention can't find a relationship because they scare everyone off. There's no mystery or build up to getting to know them. They put it all out on the table right away and when everything is out there up front he is going to find things that make him run.

 

Here is exactly how you get rid of wanting a relationship. You need to realize that being HAPPY is your end goal. You think a relationship is a means to that end. You need to find another means. There are completely happy single people roaming all over the face of this earth so it is completely possible. Do it. Find a different way of looking at it so that you get to the end instead of focusing on the means.

 

I don't know if you've been following me or my story on here but relationships aren't easy for me to find either. Sure, I get asked out but it rarely to never goes anywhere. And I'm a few years older than you so I know your concerns about time running out. Do I want a relationship and would that provide some happiness in my life? Certainly it would. Do I think a relationship is the only way to get happiness? No, I don't. I realize that the end is more important than the means.

 

I want to be happy. So I be happy. It's as simple as that.

 

I still want a relationship but instead of focusing on the end product of locking someone down, I focus on the hunt because that's the only thing I can focus on right now. Every person I meet, every connection I make gets me a little closer to the one. That in itself makes me happy. I don't expect the bluebird of love to just come crap on my head one day. It's a process and working through it gives me satisfaction (happiness).

 

Think of it as running into a brick wall over and over. Are you just going to keep ramming your head into it in the hopes that you will bust through it? The only thing I see happening in that situation is you knocking yourself out. You have to find a way around that wall or climb over it or get a god damned sledge hammer or something. Your only hurting yourself by not looking for an alternative solution.

[ThaWholigan]

Again, why would things change if I don't fix what's broken? I can't find a relationship because something is wrong. If I don't figure out what that something is, then how can I correct it so I DO have a chance at a relationship in the future? Your advice is good, but it applies to girls who can easily find relationships, and just need to be single for a while.

 

And I'm not happy today because I'm missing a major component of what would make me happy... a relationship. So to be happy, I need to get rid of wanting that. So how do I do that?

 

Maybe it's that nothing it broken and the fact that you think something is broken is permeating from you somehow??

 

I would really like a girlfriend in my life right now, but I don't feel I need one to be happy. I have my ambitions, my goals and my own personal improvement to keep me satiated for now. I didn't always have a healthy sense of self-worth, but I worked at it for a long time. I suppose the difference is I had the backing from people in my life when it mattered. I think you need to surround yourself with a different set of people entirely.

[Negative Nancy]

A sunny attitude won't get you a partner. But a dark attitude will chase them away in droves!

 

How to get a positive attitude? Practice gratitude. Focus on what you do have, instead of what you do not have (I'm talking about your life here, not your physical attributes).

 

Yeah, this magical "positive attitude". If that was all that's needed, millions of people wouldn't be single. It's not true anyway. A hot looking girl can have the most negative attitude in the world and will still have men tripping over their own feet to cater to her. It's obvious in everyday life and anyone who disagrees is either illusional ormust be living under a rock. I agree with the quote "If a man wants you, nothing can keep him away. If he doesn't want you, nothing can make him stay." That doesn't mean you can treat him like ****, but if two people are on the same wavelength, a bad attitude won't drive the other person away, because hopefully we all are mature and wise enough to realize that everybody has bad days in their lives. And I don't think that verhrzn's attitude is all that negative anyway, she's probably just venting, that's what this forum is for. I'm as negative as it gets when it comes to certain things (I chose my user name for a reason, after all) and all I can say is that it hasn't driven away the important people in my life away. So all that "feel-good" stuff up there might sounds nice in theory, but in real life the hot mess still gets all the men's attention while verhrzn is told that all she needs to change is her attitude. Yeah, right

 

People telling verhrzn to forget about relationships and focus on other stuff are sitting on a pretty high horse in my opinion. If a person is a relationship person, nothing in their life can soothe that desire or replace it. I know I am a relationship person, and while I wasn't throwing myself behind a train when I was single, I am much more happier in a relationship. Finding the right person is really hard these days, and out of frustration for this people always praise the benefits of being single in order to make themselves feel better. Of course, being single is better than being in a crappy relationship. But with the right partner people feel much more complete and don't wanna trade in their partner for the "awesome" single lifestyle anymore.

 

There have been people throughout history and are people today who have faced much worse than you and remained positive. Hell, there are stories of people who were positive in concentration camps.

 

The typical "others have it worse" - argument. Yes, we all know that there are people out there that have it worse, but does other people's misery magically make our own misery somehow better? So you go up to the victim of an accident in a hospital who's just lost his limbs and tell him that that he should suck it up because there are starving people in Africa or tortured inmates in Guantanamo?

 

I totally agree with OP. I find that:

 

- The more good looking (or attractive in general) a man is, the less likely he is to settle down soon in life or to settle down with an average woman. Most good looking men want to date around because they get sex easily, whereas the more average or ugly looking men are more open to relationships since that might be the only way for them to get sex regularly. At the end, when it comes to most men, it's really all about sex.

 

-The older a man gets, the more likely he is to want monogomy or love. Just looking through dating profiles, it's easy to see that most 35+ men want a relationship whereas the younger ones want to "date but nothing serious". But then again, these older men (if attractive) realize that they are valuable to the older women (or sometimes even the younger women) market so they still have their pick and will only settle down with the hottest women.

 

I find that often, a young good looking woman who wants a relationship has to lower her standards because the young good looking successful men are out having easy sex but the same is definitely not true for men who want a relationship. So yeah, it sure looks like the dating scene favors men over women.

 

Quoted for telling it like it is.

[verhrzn]

I want to be happy. So I be happy. It's as simple as that.

 

Maybe it's that nothing makes me happy. I enjoy things, like my writing or my martial arts, but they don't make me happy because eventually I realize I'm no good at them. Like Saliari... I'm good enough to recognize how horrible I am, and too horrible to rise above it.

 

I've spent my entire life this way, being nothing but average and finding nothing that fills me with joy, because there is nothing that transcends my mediocrity.

 

So if what all of you say is true... that a "positive attitude" is the only way to bother with life, and the only way I'm ever going to get the one thing I've really wanted (someone to love me even in my ugly averageness)... then yeah, it seems it is pointless.

 

But accepting a lonely mediocre life would be far better than driving myself crazy that I can't achieve genius. I guess I've never seen acceptance of that as a "positive attitude" but as a sign of defeat. Still, guess you can't fight life.

[FrustratedStandards]

I think the reason many men are polygamous is because they can't actually find a woman they want to be with.

 

This stems from my own situation as well. One guy is perfect, but sexually unattractive. Another is sexually attractive but we aren't compatible.

 

It's seems that polygamy isn't because men or women want multiple partners, but because you need multiple partners to make the ideal one. Each partner will possess qualities that you want in your ideal mate, but won't possess ALL the qualities. Therefore, you date each one for the individual quality you like.

 

When a man or woman finds their ideal mate with almost all the qualities they want, they WILL be monogamous. I have seen players fall inlove and all of a sudden they want marriage and children, when the thought never even occurred to them before.

 

I think monogamy is likely and desirable but only with the ideal mate. The fact that it's so hard to find an ideal mate is the reason why (I think) polygamy is becoming more and more popular.

Edited February 8, 2012 by FrustratedStandards

[Mme. Chaucer]

People telling verhrzn to forget about relationships and focus on other stuff are sitting on a pretty high horse in my opinion. If a person is a relationship person, nothing in their life can soothe that desire or replace it. I know I am a relationship person, and while I wasn't throwing myself behind a train when I was single, I am much more happier in a relationship.

 

You seem very unhappy in most of your posts.

[zengirl]

The typical "others have it worse" - argument. Yes, we all know that there are people out there that have it worse, but does other people's misery magically make our own misery somehow better? So you go up to the victim of an accident in a hospital who's just lost his limbs and tell him that that he should suck it up because there are starving people in Africa or tortured inmates in Guantanamo?

 

My point was not comparative at all; it was that, in most cases, you can CHOOSE to face your situation with a positive attitude even when it's impossible to be happy with the circumstances. I also made it very clear that positive thinking does not mean pretending that you don't want things you don't have or wish things were different. So, you missed my point.

 

My point was that positive people have a better chance at happiness and success in EVERY situation, no matter how dire. And, yes, there are people who've lost limbs, or dealt with torture or severe hunger, who still manage to be positive. Positive doesn't mean pretending bad things don't happen; it means being more grateful for what you do have and more sure that you can maintain your own happiness and self-peace in the face of good and bad, and it means fixating more often on the good things in your life than the bad.

 

Everyone has their own tragedies, and I'm not attempting to compare or belittle anyone's tragedies. What I am saying is that "reality" (no matter how harsh or extreme) does not, itself, strip a positive attitude away. People choose how to live their lives, and if the OP wants to choose to be negative she needs to own that and not pretend it's just "reality."

 

Maybe it's that nothing makes me happy. I enjoy things, like my writing or my martial arts, but they don't make me happy because eventually I realize I'm no good at them. Like Saliari... I'm good enough to recognize how horrible I am, and too horrible to rise above it.

 

I've spent my entire life this way, being nothing but average and finding nothing that fills me with joy, because there is nothing that transcends my mediocrity.

 

Well, there's your problem. If you're expecting happiness to come from the outside solely, you're wrong. Outside factors impact our happiness, sure, and there are things we can do to improve our happiness, sure, but a lot of happiness comes from getting your mind in order. Sounds like your mind isn't in order, and if you're as utterly anhedonic as you say, then it's no wonder your life isn't in order. Most people don't like being around continually unhappy people; continually unhappy and dissatisfied people are a bummer.

 

But accepting a lonely mediocre life would be far better than driving myself crazy that I can't achieve genius. I guess I've never seen acceptance of that as a "positive attitude" but as a sign of defeat. Still, guess you can't fight life.

 

What's with the constant use of average and mediocre?

 

I agree that it's fun to be good at things, but, honestly, if that's the only place you can think of to derive joy, you are missing out. Passion shouldn't be dictated by talent. (Though many talented people WILL find passion in their talents naturally.) Passion should be dictated by choice. I don't know how to tell you to find your passions -- that's something each individual needs to do -- but I do know that if you let yourself lose interest in something you genuinely enjoy when you don't exhibit genius at it, you're missing out on developing passion.

 

Failure is actually quite beautiful, and I think happy people -- the people that stay happy (overall -- I mean, everyone is sad sometimes!) -- know it. Happy people can deal with failure because they understand it comes with trying, growing, following passions, living life, and succeeding. I think many unhappy people are deeply afraid of failure, and it sounds like that's your gig as well. All I can say is try to change that ASAP because it only gets harder to change the longer you're stuck in it.

 

Here is exactly how you get rid of wanting a relationship. You need to realize that being HAPPY is your end goal. You think a relationship is a means to that end. You need to find another means. There are completely happy single people roaming all over the face of this earth so it is completely possible. Do it. Find a different way of looking at it so that you get to the end instead of focusing on the means.

 

[snip]

 

I want to be happy. So I be happy. It's as simple as that.

 

 

Right, that's exactly it. And being happy doesn't mean that you are never hurting or sad or sick or angry or whatever. We all are, sometimes. But being happy means that, overall, day in and day out, you're more positive and happy in the face of what life brings, more eager to seek out the good, and grateful for life, in general. It will never mean things are perfect or feel perfect; that's impossible. We're all miserable sometimes, but happy people know misery will pass and they allow it to pass and decide to be positive and happy. It's a choice.

[verhrzn]

Well, there's your problem. If you're expecting happiness to come from the outside solely, you're wrong. Outside factors impact our happiness, sure, and there are things we can do to improve our happiness, sure, but a lot of happiness comes from getting your mind in order. Sounds like your mind isn't in order, and if you're as utterly anhedonic as you say, then it's no wonder your life isn't in order. Most people don't like being around continually unhappy people; continually unhappy and dissatisfied people are a bummer.

 

What's with the constant use of average and mediocre?

 

I agree that it's fun to be good at things, but, honestly, if that's the only place you can think of to derive joy, you are missing out. Passion shouldn't be dictated by talent. (Though many talented people WILL find passion in their talents naturally.) Passion should be dictated by choice. I don't know how to tell you to find your passions -- that's something each individual needs to do -- but I do know that if you let yourself lose interest in something you genuinely enjoy when you don't exhibit genius at it, you're missing out on developing passion.

 

Failure is actually quite beautiful, and I think happy people -- the people that stay happy (overall -- I mean, everyone is sad sometimes!) -- know it. Happy people can deal with failure because they understand it comes with trying, growing, following passions, living life, and succeeding. I think many unhappy people are deeply afraid of failure, and it sounds like that's your gig as well. All I can say is try to change that ASAP because it only gets harder to change the longer you're stuck in it.

 

Failure isn't scary so long as you improve, "grow" in your vocabulary. And what if you don't? What if you keep trying, and continue to fail? "Positive" people continue to keep trying because they believe it will pay off... but what if it doesn't? At what point do you admit to yourself that, geez, you really AREN'T going to get better at this, and that continuing to pursue it would honestly just be a waste of time.

 

I would love to hear from people who are passionate about something while still being fully aware they're awful at it. And I don't mean "awful" to equate to "not a concert pianist." I mean "awful" to equate to "can't bang out Mary Had a Little Lamb on a keyboard."

 

Tell me, if you knew that no matter how hard you tried at something you were never going to get any better, and that your current level of talent was somewhere around "abysmal," would you really feel that passionate about it?

 

Maybe this is just one of those huge communication divides where it's impossible to comprehend the other side. I think it's hard for extraordinary people to understand what it's like to be average or sub-par. How does one develop confidence in themselves, or passion in life, when their life is truly empty of anything to be confident, passionate or proud about?

 

In other words, should one really be happy that they are an unremarkable person? Should someone be accepting of a life that is every direction of boring and ordinary?

 

I was raised with the philosophy that I live, I work, I die. That the rewards of this life are "not of this earth." (Think Puritan/traditional Lutheran lifestyles.) That I am nothing extraordinary, and my life on this Earth is a tiny meaningless drop of existence. Now, I'm suddenly being told that to have a normal, human experience (marriage, kids), I have to think myself extraordinary, I have to be happy instead of humble, and passionate instead of hard-working. It's the complete opposite of how I was raised. It's completely alien to me that I should be happy to have a boring, near-worthless life.

[ditzchic]

Maybe this is just one of those huge communication divides where it's impossible to comprehend the other side. I think it's hard for extraordinary people to understand what it's like to be average or sub-par. How does one develop confidence in themselves, or passion in life, when their life is truly empty of anything to be confident, passionate or proud about?

 

 

I find it hard to believe that you are really good at nothing. You're a tech geek. Can you build a computer? I sure as **** can't. Neither can most others.

 

Didn't you say you were a black belt (or on your way at least) in the martial arts you practice? That's not something the completely average, unremarkable schlub can achieve.

 

I'm sure there are many other things you are well above average in but you are telling yourself you're not in order to stay humble. Humility and being humble mean that you don't have to show off your skills to the world to beef up your ego. It doesn't mean you can't recognize them in yourself.

[make me believe]

You drive four hours round trip to a martial arts class that you're "abysmal" at?

[Mme. Chaucer]

You drive four hours round trip to a martial arts class that you're "abysmal" at?

 

Maybe "abysmal" is the new "fun."

[Professor X]

Tell me, if you knew that no matter how hard you tried at something you were never going to get any better, and that your current level of talent was somewhere around "abysmal," would you really feel that passionate about it?

And how do you know you will never get any better? Last I checked, the time machine wasn't invented, or you know... wasn't for sale at the very least.

At what point do you admit to yourself that, geez, you really AREN'T going to get better at this, and that continuing to pursue it would honestly just be a waste of time

If it is something you truly want than never - and this is also the difference between a defeatist and a winner.

 

Like I always told you, stop being so negative and stop being so stubborn; But you simply don't wanna listen.

[verhrzn]

You drive four hours round trip to a martial arts class that you're "abysmal" at?

 

Yep, cause I enjoy the martial art itself. But it doesn't make me happy because I'm so bad at it. I draw a distinction between the two. It's a hard and complicated thing to describe, but that's how it makes me feel.

[veggirl]

V, you need to get into therapy for the self hatred issues