Author verhrzn Posted February 6, 2012 Author Posted February 6, 2012 I have good news for you. You're wrong. I'm sure you could find some articles and books that support a different perspective, if you were interested. Anyway, no. The "ONLY" men who want marriage / monogamy in that age group are NOT "religious types" or already married. In fact, my daughter's ex boyfriend is one, and so is my husband's son. That's two in one little tiny family. There must be millions more. So you're in luck. I hope you can adjust your POV away from such a defeatist and fatalistic one. The other articles I find DO say there are good men out there... and the problem is you. (That being a general 'you,' a 'you the single woman,' not a you Mme. Chaucer.) You're too picky, you're too angry, you're too fat, you're too ugly, you're too selfish and intimidating and slutty... Truth be told, I'm not sure which side of the fence depresses me more. I'm sure I'm too much of something, which makes me wonder who exactly I should be morphing myself into in order to get a ring on the finger. But then I become too overwhelmed with the sheer amount of things I have to change to be worthy for good guys to even show up (because apparently they're all hiding until the right woman walks by and then they just pop out from behind the shrubbery?) and I give up and want to give up. Unfortunately, I haven't figured out yet how to give up (always open to tips!) so I go right back into the cycle of 1) Try To Figure Out What's Wrong 2) Get Overwhelmed by What's Wrong 3) Give Up. So maybe marriage and monogamy are still options for women, and there are good men out there, just not for women like me. That's... almost better?
Sanman Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 At what point do you look at this mountain, don't you feel a little like "Well, guess I better get used to the way society is going"? I mean, you don't want to be the only person walking around looking for marriage when everyone else in your demographic (single between the age of 25-32) has moved on to poly and casual relationships, because that's just a recipe for misery. (Looking for something that doesn't exist.) I really don't think it is a mountain. I do think that it is that like groups simply associate with each other. I have have many single friends, but my closest friends are pretty much all married. I there is something to remember here. There have always been two types (at least) of men (or people) when it comes to dating and mating. One type is all about variety and many relationships and the other is about monogamy and building longer-term intimate relationships. In the early twentieth century, the former type had mistresses and secretaries to satiate their needs, then came free love and key parties, then the sexual revolution that led to hook-ups and people labeling themselves as poly-amorous, and there have always been prostitutes. The truth is that this subset has always existed, they are just more open about who they are and what they do now. That does not mean that there are not a substantial number of people interested in monogamy. It is simply that the 'veil of monogamy' worn by people who often cheated and participated in such things is gone. With it, however, is the mentality that you check those impulses at the door and always 'come home' to the wife and family when you are done playing around. Now, people are able to do as they please. Well I cannot say I now very many guys that are having 'crazy wild sex' that they have to give up in a relationship (actually my friends in relationships usually have the wilder sex stories). Most guys I know troll bars/clubs/OLD for weeks before getting a girl or two. It is the ones that enjoy that who prefer to stay single. My married friends tend to find a woman that they like, stay with her, and concentrate on other things like building their career rather than trolling for more women. The other comment I have is on marriage itself. It is undergoing a change in definition. People are looking for something different in marriage than they used to. Marriage in many cases was a simply an economic benefit needed to raise children. Often in the early twentieth century in America, the paring up with the boy next door really was not that different from an arranged marriage. Many women were not passionately in love. They simply picked a good, stable guy and married him. Men did the same, they found a good wife/homemaker and married her. Maybe there was passion and maybe there was none.
Scottdmw Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 There are two main things I'd say. First, I think that some women have a tendency to get too fixated on the most attractive guys out there, and this skews their perception. They say they have only a short list of things they want, let's say height over 5'10", good looking, stable job, no serious problems. Something like that. What they don't realize is that they have already limited themselves to about 20% of the male population just with those. Throw in another wish or two like charming, fit, etc., and you pretty quickly get to 5% of the male population. Incidentally, that's the 5% that pretty much every woman would like. The problem this creates is that for those 5%, the world is their oyster. All women want them and they know it. Many women are willing to give them casual sex, and they know it. Unless they happen to have strong religious values, why would they settle down with one woman? If pressed, a woman will admit that yes she knows men that are single that want to get married, but they're undesirable in some way, maybe just not good with women, poor social skills, not physically attractive, etc. Unfortunately, this usually comprises something like 60% of the male population. You see the problem. All this can easily create the appearance for women that all good men are taken or don't want marriage. The problem is that their definition of "good" is much more selective than they realize. Okay, aside from all that, I do think you might be limiting yourself a bit with your perception of "religious guys". I'm strongly religious myself, but what I see in the churches are people of all different shades and types. Many people who go to church are only slightly less sexual than complete atheists, and some are not less at all. You could say the same about just about any issue. More to the point, I do think that Christian people tend to be more interested in marriage. If that's really what you're looking for, I think you should consider "religious" guys. By all means make sure you find one that you can live with, but don't assume that they are all somehow the same. Best wishes Scott
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 If a woman doesn't sleep with a man within a certain amount of time, he then labels her as a prude/cold fish, or that she has too low of a sex drive, and dumps her anyway. Women can't win... either we're sluts, or we're prudes. The guys I have met who don't put a lot of emphasis on sexuality, and want marriage/monogamy are the extremely religious types, the "born again" Christian guys who want a good little housewife. If those are the only two options... I know a lot of Christian guys, and most don't conform to your stereotype. I don't get approached, and honestly, I don't want a guy who chooses me because he thinks I'm a prude... if nothing else, because I want a guy with a sex drive that matches mine. A guy who dates me because he thinks I'm a "good girl" is no better than a guy who would date me because he thinks I'm a slut. Let me get this straight... so a guy who doesn't want a slut lacks a sex drive? How exactly did you come to that conclusion? I honestly don't think those two things have any direct correlation. The other articles I find DO say there are good men out there... and the problem is you. (That being a general 'you,' a 'you the single woman,' not a you Mme. Chaucer.) You're too picky, you're too angry, you're too fat, you're too ugly, you're too selfish and intimidating and slutty... Truth be told, I'm not sure which side of the fence depresses me more. I'm sure I'm too much of something, which makes me wonder who exactly I should be morphing myself into in order to get a ring on the finger. But then I become too overwhelmed with the sheer amount of things I have to change to be worthy for good guys to even show up (because apparently they're all hiding until the right woman walks by and then they just pop out from behind the shrubbery?) and I give up and want to give up. Unfortunately, I haven't figured out yet how to give up (always open to tips!) so I go right back into the cycle of 1) Try To Figure Out What's Wrong 2) Get Overwhelmed by What's Wrong 3) Give Up. So maybe marriage and monogamy are still options for women, and there are good men out there, just not for women like me. That's... almost better? Dunno what to say to that. I can understand that you are really frustrated. I've been there. I've been cheated on by women so many damn times that I really struggle to believe that there is a lack of options out there.
iris219 Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 I agree, I also have lots of friends who are married and in committed relationships. That wasn't my point. My point was that past a certain age (what your daughter is approaching, but not quite to yet) the only men who want monogamy/marriage are either the religious types, or those who are already married/in relationships. I agree with you, though I've never heard anyone refer to themselves as poly anything. The men who want to settle down do, often early--early to late twenties where I live. The rest have no intention of ever doing so, at least not anytime soon. I also agree about the lack of options. I try hard to make every dating situation work, even though I'm going out with guys I'm not super impressed with. I go out with just about every guy who asks because I never know when I'll meet the next one. I haven't met an available man yet this year. I'm still considering my ex, and apparently he's considering me because he's started contacting me. Settling for him would be hitting rock bottom, but I might be forced to (or end up childless). I have noticed that 40 something, divorced men want to remarry. This demographic is my best bet, though that's probably too old for you.
ScreamingTrees Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) I don't get approached, and honestly, I don't want a guy who chooses me because he thinks I'm a prude... if nothing else, because I want a guy with a sex drive that matches mine. A guy who dates me because he thinks I'm a "good girl" is no better than a guy who would date me because he thinks I'm a slut. How do you know that they have no sex drive? How is there no difference? You say that the former is no better than the latter, but if so, who would be a better choice for you, considering what you're looking for? You're right, one isn't inherently better than the other, but with all things in life, it's about YOUR individual perspective and what YOU want to make out of life. What if the guy is looking for someone who has a similar view of sex and a similar level of control over their natural urges? What if the dude HAD the chance and desire to have sex but refused and instead waited for someone who did likewise whom they have the better overall connection with? Doesn't mean they have no desire, it means they have.. *gasp!* SELF CONTROL!?! FREE WILL?! HIGHER STANDARDS?! (Assuming they meet their own high standards) Can't catch the herp from doing the jerk. Edited February 7, 2012 by ScreamingTrees
AD1980 Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Your theory is false im 31 and would like a relationshp problem is women aren't attracted to me
make me believe Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 I agree, I also have lots of friends who are married and in committed relationships. That wasn't my point. My point was that past a certain age (what your daughter is approaching, but not quite to yet) the only men who want monogamy/marriage are either the religious types, or those who are already married/in relationships. How kind of you to warn Mme Chaucer so she can in turn warn her daughter that she's quickly approaching "that certain age" after which there are exactly zero available, willing men to marry. :rolleyes: Seriously, what is this? Another pity party for yourself? Another thread where you continously spout all the reasons you "can't" get a boyfriend and never will be able to, and then argue with anyone who dares to tell you otherwise? What's the freakin point?? If you REALLY believe this, then fine. If you INSIST this is how it will be for you, then this IS how it will be for you, no matter how much you try to argue that it's "society's" fault or whatever. So then accept it and deal with it then because it's the reality YOU are creating for yourself. The fact is, there are PLENTY of women out there who have gotten married when they were past your magical age range. They have found great men who made them happy and were excited to marry them. You can refuse to believe that it's possible for you, but it's insulting to say it's impossible for every woman out there.
zengirl Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 But there ISN'T a next one, that's the point. That single men who want monogamy are so rare they get snatched up immediately, or they turn into FWB/'casual dating' type guys, until the magical 'right one' comes along. Why does the idea of the right one sound fake to you? Do you want to marry just anyone? Don't you want the right guy too? Why would you stay in a relationship with someone you didn't think was the right one? I have many female friends over 30. One of them is getting married just this summer; she's 34, and her fiance is 36. People in their 30s still get married. I have had family members get married in their 40s and known co-workers who did (none of my friends are in that age range, but I'm sure I'll have some friends who get married at that age when I get there)! I have many male friends over 30, and the vast majority of them -- whether single or in a relationship now -- want to get married. Granted, what is difficult to find is a man who wants to get married (the idea of it -- before he meets the right one) and doesn't want kids; usually those two ideas coincide in the male mind, at least in the abstract sense, but I don't know if you want kids and anyway guys who weren't so into kids often want to get married when they meet a girl worth marrying: that right one. (And plenty of men who don't want kids want monogamy even if marriage hasn't stuck in their mind; the two ideas are not necessarily synonymous these days.) I do think it gets more difficult as you get older and the dating pool shrinks, but I wouldn't worry about that till your mid-30s if you live in an urban area with enough choices. People in suburban or rural areas settle down a little earlier, statistically, so 30 may be the time when options seem to shrink. It's not that there are NONE though; it's simply a numerical reality: more people in your age group are married or taken, so less are single and available. That can be a good thing, as it can help narrow your choices for you; it's not like you could go out with everyone who's available anyway! Those people already found their right someone, so they are not right for you. Question: what's the difference between 'hopeless' and looking at the writing on the wall? In this case, your thinking is defeatist because even though people are telling you, "Yes, people still get married after that age. Yes, there are still men out there who want monogamy" and giving examples (anecdotes are not data, but there is statistical data out there as well -- among college educated adults, men are MORE LIKELY to seek marriage than women, for instance) and so forth, and you're just ignoring anything positive, as you often do. As to books, there are plenty of books that are positive. I suggest reading better books. I always suggest the Tao of Dating and Meeting Your Half-Orange. Both of those books helped me a lot when I was dating and they have a positive, can do, blame-free (not responsibility free!) message. Unfortunately, I haven't figured out yet how to give up (always open to tips!) so I go right back into the cycle of 1) Try To Figure Out What's Wrong 2) Get Overwhelmed by What's Wrong 3) Give Up. So maybe marriage and monogamy are still options for women, and there are good men out there, just not for women like me. That's... almost better? You really aren't always open to tips. You always deny anything that doesn't fit with your negativity. In order to change your reality, you must first change your beliefs. That's my tip. The books I mention highlight that idea in a more new age (and accessible, though slightly cheesier) way. Seriously, what is this? Another pity party for yourself? Another thread where you continously spout all the reasons you "can't" get a boyfriend and never will be able to, and then argue with anyone who dares to tell you otherwise? What's the freakin point?? If you REALLY believe this, then fine. If you INSIST this is how it will be for you, then this IS how it will be for you, no matter how much you try to argue that it's "society's" fault or whatever. So then accept it and deal with it then because it's the reality YOU are creating for yourself. The fact is, there are PLENTY of women out there who have gotten married when they were past your magical age range. They have found great men who made them happy and were excited to marry them. You can refuse to believe that it's possible for you, but it's insulting to say it's impossible for every woman out there. Or, basically, this!
xxoo Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Unfortunately, I haven't figured out yet how to give up (always open to tips!) so I go right back into the cycle of 1) Try To Figure Out What's Wrong 2) Get Overwhelmed by What's Wrong 3) Give Up. 4) stop focusing on marriage and a relationship Just enjoy NOW. Know that one day your reality will be different (whether that includes marriage or not). These days of relative youth and freedom will be gone forever. Do you want to waste your 20s worrying about this stuff? Live your life. ENJOY your life. The irony is, you will be much more likely to recognize, and be recognized by, "the one" when you aren't so focused on finding him.
veggirl Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 How kind of you to warn Mme Chaucer so she can in turn warn her daughter that she's quickly approaching "that certain age" after which there are exactly zero available, willing men to marry. :rolleyes: Seriously, what is this? Another pity party for yourself? Another thread where you continously spout all the reasons you "can't" get a boyfriend and never will be able to, and then argue with anyone who dares to tell you otherwise? What's the freakin point?? If you REALLY believe this, then fine. If you INSIST this is how it will be for you, then this IS how it will be for you, no matter how much you try to argue that it's "society's" fault or whatever. So then accept it and deal with it then because it's the reality YOU are creating for yourself. The fact is, there are PLENTY of women out there who have gotten married when they were past your magical age range. They have found great men who made them happy and were excited to marry them. You can refuse to believe that it's possible for you, but it's insulting to say it's impossible for every woman out there. Oh yeah, ALL OF THIS. OP aren't you only 26? What about the single 30ish guys on this board. They all desperately want a GF. You don't even try. Well, neither do they. But this is your thread.
Author verhrzn Posted February 7, 2012 Author Posted February 7, 2012 Oh yeah, ALL OF THIS. OP aren't you only 26? What about the single 30ish guys on this board. They all desperately want a GF. You don't even try. Well, neither do they. But this is your thread. What exactly would trying look like to you? I have a good job, fun interests, keep myself active socially and physically... all those things I'm supposed to be doing that qualify as "trying." I go to the places you're "supposed" to be able to meet men (volunteer: retired folks, book clubs: all female, single nights: 6 women competing for 1 guy.) Desperate guys on this board admit they don't really leave the house, don't have a lot of friends or social skills, don't have a lot in the way of hobbies, and are lacking in either education or employment. Doesn't that just reinforce the fact that all the 'good' (gainfully employed, good education, and good character... aka, equal to the single woman) are already taken?
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Doesn't that just reinforce the fact that all the 'good' (gainfully employed, good education, and good character... aka, equal to the single woman) are already taken? No. Because it's not a "fact." Here you go, using the exact same circular unreasonable reasoning to "prove" why your problems are insolvable. Somedude does the exact same thing. You two really do sound like the male and female version of the same person. Is there any reason you don't get together?
musemaj11 Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 According to some theory, Monogamy was created to ensure that every man had a woman while Marriage was created to let men claim official ownership of a woman. Unfortunately though, these two concepts have turned on men today.
Author verhrzn Posted February 7, 2012 Author Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) Somedude does the exact same thing. You two really do sound like the male and female version of the same person. Is there any reason you don't get together? I'm not hot enough. I'd LOVE to be the male version of myself (in this case, I suppose, that would be Somedude.) He really has no idea how lucky he is. I'd also love to be a lesbian... If I'm at a gay-heavy gathering, I get hit on by at least one woman. Never the men. But lesbians adore me. They find me adorable and charming. It's how I found out for myself homosexuality isn't a choice, because if I could, I'd go gay in a heartbeat. I'd have opportunities out the ears. Edited February 7, 2012 by verhrzn
Professor X Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 I'm sure I'm too much of something, which makes me wonder who exactly I should be morphing myself into in order to get a ring on the finger. You're to much negative - if it the thought of changing it overwhelms you, than ye, you're in for a lonely future.
Author verhrzn Posted February 7, 2012 Author Posted February 7, 2012 You're to much negative - if it the thought of changing it overwhelms you, than ye, you're in for a lonely future. Or maybe I'm negative cause I'm overwhelmed. When you're constantly being told that the reason you're single is because you're: too slutty, too prudish, too physically unattractive, too loud, too quiet, too naive, too intimidating, too picky, no standards ('too' doesn't even look like a word anymore, does it?), etc, it's kind of hard NOT to be negative. There also seems to be a stark divide of understand between single women and women in relationships. Women in relationships, if I may, aren't out on the front lines... they've forgotten what it's like to actually go looking for a relationship, and to be told at every turn that it's their own fault (for any hundreds of reasons.) To then be told on top of that by magazines and books that a single woman might as well not even bother, men who want marriage are like diamonds on the ground.... in such an environment, I'd love to see anyone stay positive. ... And no one has yet explained what exactly is the difference between 'negativity' and 'reality.'
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Nobody is suggesting that you, or anybody else, "morph" into a different person to "get a ring on your finger." Those of you who seem to have serious social problems and who are super committed to complaining about the insolvable nature of them, due to the "fact" (in your opinions) that they are issues with the other gender, or with society at large, or with biology, need to quit that. If you are not willing to take an honest look at where YOU fall short in your dealings with others, and to truly, humbly acknowledge what those areas are and seek to improve upon them, you might as well just settle into enjoying life with yourselves for company. Actually, you should enjoy life with your own company to the fullest anyway, because no matter what you do, that might be what you are left with. There are plenty of us who are NOT paired off and who might like to be, but who aren't moaning about how it's all because of the big bad world. A positive attitude would be a great starting place.
jobaba Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 What exactly would trying look like to you? I have a good job, fun interests, keep myself active socially and physically... all those things I'm supposed to be doing that qualify as "trying." I go to the places you're "supposed" to be able to meet men (volunteer: retired folks, book clubs: all female, single nights: 6 women competing for 1 guy.) I think you mentioned before you would consider Asian guys. Go for Asian American guys. Asian American guys LOVE white girls 'cause most of them will not date Asians. A lot of them would think you are hot. The majority of them have degrees from good schools, are responsible, and are generally respectful towards women. White dudes in general are more prone to be d@uchebags and unpredictable. But women like the excitement factor that brings. Sounds like you're over that. If you live in area that permits it (i.e. had Asians), I'd consider it.
musemaj11 Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 Men who say they dont want to have sex with a lot of hot women and prefer only one woman is like women who say they dont want to have a rich man and prefer a poor man instead. They dont want it because they cant have it in the first place.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 V, cut the BS about what you are "constantly being told." You have threads here all the time with the identical themes. You carry on about all the ugly things you are "constantly being told" on multi page threads - where nobody tells you any such thing. I doubt you have more interactions with people in the real world who talk to you about relationship issues than you have here, so why don't you use what is said HERE as your base. Nobody has told you, constantly or otherwise, what you say you're "constantly being told." I'll help you out with why you have so much trouble socially. It's because of the energy you put out in the world. Of that I am positive. Fortunately for you, that's within your power to change, in case you ever decide to do so. The difference between negativity and reality? Didn't you go to college? For a little reality check, though, here: I told you before, my daughter's ex boyfriend is 30. Single. My husband's son is 31. Single. Both happen to be very good looking, university educated, highly skilled for job market, both are musicians. Not losers. Girls like them. They also don't go around complaining about whether girls are too prudish or too slutty. When they find the girl who they click with in all the right ways, they won't be single any more. My daughter is 24, as I told you, and she is single now. She is not even THINKING about all the negative crap that you spend all your time on. And yes, she has some significant challenges facing her in life right now, it's not all gummy bears and unicorns for her.
musemaj11 Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 (edited) This is exactly it. Men really don't wanna be with the average woman. They might use her for sex and string her along in a relationship but as soon as the hot woman of his dreams shows up, he'd dump plain jane in a heart beat. OR he gets married to plain jane, she raises his kids and when she's too old she gets tossed aside and traded in for a younger model. That is the sad reality these days, so don't be sad that there are no marriage-minded men out there - you might actually be dodging a bullet. Hey you are sounding like me. So cynical. LOL Edited February 7, 2012 by musemaj11
Negative Nancy Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 OP, I think you're a cool girl and I can't for the life of me understand why you haven't found someone yet. So I agree it's the men. They look at FHM, Maxim and porn and that's what they want and expect in real life. An average woman (not saying you're one, just making a general statement) just doesnt cut it for today's men anymore.
Author verhrzn Posted February 7, 2012 Author Posted February 7, 2012 Nobody is suggesting that you, or anybody else, "morph" into a different person to "get a ring on your finger." Those of you who seem to have serious social problems and who are super committed to complaining about the insolvable nature of them, due to the "fact" (in your opinions) that they are issues with the other gender, or with society at large, or with biology, need to quit that. If you are not willing to take an honest look at where YOU fall short in your dealings with others, and to truly, humbly acknowledge what those areas are and seek to improve upon them, you might as well just settle into enjoying life with yourselves for company. Actually, you should enjoy life with your own company to the fullest anyway, because no matter what you do, that might be what you are left with. There are plenty of us who are NOT paired off and who might like to be, but who aren't moaning about how it's all because of the big bad world. A positive attitude would be a great starting place. "The personal is the political." I'm not trying to say that if someone is single, it's not at all their fault, but none of us live in a social vacuum. Dating trends and social issues like the lack of marriage DO effect people. It's fine to call for personal responsibility, but putting everything on the shoulders of an individual when there IS data suggesting a lack of available partners or a disinclination towards monogamy/marriage/children, is just as naive and blind as someone who puts all the blame on society. I've said it before and I'll say it again... I'd love to do something to change my situation. But I feel powerless to do so, and a feeling of powerlessness leads to bitterness/resentful/.... a lack of control. I mean, as a girl, what are you supposed to do to be more successful? "Be prettier." (I've always said that's my problem, and gotten slammed on this forum for it.) "Have interesting hobbies/interests/be independent, etc." (Yep, got that covered.) "Have a positive attitude!" Hard to believe, but years ago, I had that as well, and it got me no where. Eventually the disappointment and sense of hopelessness just burned me from the inside out. And I get so, so, so sick of being told to "have a positive attitude." It's like "The Secret," this philosophy that if you're positive, somehow the universe will reward you with what you want. But a good attitude is worthless if you don't have the goods to back it up (money, personality, physical attractiveness) and I see people starting to turn brittle under this self-imposed pressure to "always be happy!" and yet simultaneously being blamed for still being single.
xxoo Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 I mean, as a girl, what are you supposed to do to be more successful? "Be prettier." (I've always said that's my problem, and gotten slammed on this forum for it.) "Have interesting hobbies/interests/be independent, etc." (Yep, got that covered.) "Have a positive attitude!" Hard to believe, but years ago, I had that as well, and it got me no where. Eventually the disappointment and sense of hopelessness just burned me from the inside out. Just be you. That's enough. It might not happen this year, or even in 5 years. It will happen when the time is right. Why do you think you should have met the right person by now, at your age? How have you gotten so hopeless?
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