Mme. Chaucer Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 This is a spin-off from the "male psychology" thread. Questions: When in a good relationship, do you EVER envision other women than your SO in sexual ways? Do you think it's a threat to your relationship? If you do this, does it reflect dissatisfaction and ungratefulness for your real partner? Do you share these fantasies / thoughts with your partner? Do you think you are obliged to share all of your thoughts and fantasies with your partner if you are really in love? Is your partner entitled to know all of your thoughts and fantasies? If your partner asked you to stop envisioning other women sexually, how would you react / respond to that?
Anela Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 When I saw that thread, I wondered how they would feel if they knew the women they were with were regularly fantasizing about other men, rather than them.
aj22one Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 When in a good relationship, do you EVER envision other women than your SO in sexual ways? Sometimes, occasionally. Rarely? I don't know, somewhere in between those. Do you think it's a threat to your relationship? Nah. If you do this, does it reflect dissatisfaction and ungratefulness for your real partner? Nah Do you share these fantasies / thoughts with your partner? Sometimes. Sometimes they're fleeting and I forget about them. Maybe if I had a diary or something and I wrote 'em down I'd share them more. Do you think you are obliged to share all of your thoughts and fantasies with your partner if you are really in love? Is your partner entitled to know all of your thoughts and fantasies? No. And, I think it would be literally impossible to do so. If your partner asked you to stop envisioning other women sexually, how would you react / respond to that? I'd just hide it or I'd exist the relationship if it was a really big deal. When I saw that thread, I wondered how they would feel if they knew the women they were with were regularly fantasizing about other men, rather than them. Depends on how you define "regularly". But, I imagine she does fantasize sometimes too.
carhill Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 When in a good relationship, do you EVER envision other women than your SO in sexual ways? So far, no. Do you think it's a threat to your relationship? Other than perhaps being outlier or, as my exW said, 'abnormal', I don't think it's an issue. If you do this, does it reflect dissatisfaction and ungratefulness for your real partner? My singular data point of when I did do this in my M was because I felt abandoned by my spouse. My psyche was searching for another intimate connection and, at that point, I felt doing such a search IRL was wrong. Over time, that perspective changed. Do you share these fantasies / thoughts with your partner? I understand that people sometimes do share such thoughts but I don't. Do you think you are obliged to share all of your thoughts and fantasies with your partner if you are really in love? Is your partner entitled to know all of your thoughts and fantasies? No, and I apply that standard to any partner as well. What they choose to keep private, I respect. If your partner asked you to stop envisioning other women sexually, how would you react / respond to that?
joystickd Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 I have someone special in my life and I do have the occasional fantasy about other women. The thing is it doesnt make what I have and feel with her any less. The time spent with her feel a whole lot better than some empty fling with someone I dont even feel half of what I feel for her. If she did ask me about my thoughts I would tell her but I expect her to have trust that I would act on those thoughts
Casablanca Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 I have someone special in my life and I do have the occasional fantasy about other women. The thing is it doesnt make what I have and feel with her any less. The time spent with her feel a whole lot better than some empty fling with someone I dont even feel half of what I feel for her. This is me! Nothing wrong with looking at the menu as long as you dont have intentions of ordering.
Feelin Frisky Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 (This part pasted from thread with similar theme) Fantasies are necessary because the mind is the true organ of sex. But it is just plain inconsiderate and often emotionally disturbing to tell a partner the details. Why would anyone think to blab that out? But IMO everyone is entitled to use their mind as they see fit. I don't know what anyone else thinks in those times of sexual gratification so I can't say what is normal or typical, just that it's personal and should remain so when in a relationship where disclosure will hurt or upset. Do you think it's a threat to your relationship? If you do this, does it reflect dissatisfaction and ungratefulness for your real partner? Do you share these fantasies / thoughts with your partner? Do you think you are obliged to share all of your thoughts and fantasies with your partner if you are really in love? Is your partner entitled to know all of your thoughts and fantasies? If your partner asked you to stop envisioning other women sexually, how would you react / respond to that? -- No, it's not a threat t the relationship. It can only be a threat if the fantasy is the "coveting" of someone else who can indeed become a competing relationship. -- No it absolutely does not reflect dissatisfaction with my partner. Often in actual sex it's impossible to see your partner's face so you have to use your mind. Embellishing thoughts to add fantasies that bring forth the excitement that leads to an orgasm is actually counter-intuitively considerate, especially in a new relationship in which your lover hasn't developed the specific skill yet that gets you off. Rather than working him or her to death until they get it right, it's fine to use your brain if you love this person or care for them a lot and want to grow. You can work in the techniques that get it all right over time and sometimes that can be a fairly long process. So, you want to give 'em a break--think, put your body into it and blast off. Then hugs and kisses galore for what contribution your partner made to your ecstatic experience. -- Never volunteer information about fantasies. It's stupid and hurtful. I don't wish to be told my g/f was thinking Frank the butcher or w/e when I'm making love to her so stands to reason, she is going to feel bad hearing about some straying face that gives you a sexual boost. No way are you "obliged" to disclose your fantasies--you're obliged to keep your fantasies unique to just you and just accept that this is all cool. As long as your actions toward your lover are all complimentary to her or his happiness, what you think in a moment of sexual experience is to be discarded after it's utility has served that moment. It means nothing unless it is disclosed and then it takes on an immense life of its own well out of proportion for what it was. --My partner would not have to ask me to stop fantasizing about anyone else. I would give her no cause to be concerned by being an idiot and blabbing about how my psychological sexual organ works or how I use it. She is 100% free to engage her mind on whatever she feels like in the moment if it adds to what I'm doing and helps her have robust orgasms and feelings of ecstatic achievement. Don't ask-don't tell is the absolute best policy for this issue. I resent anyone trying to dictate what my mind should or shouldn't do and that would turn me off.
Author Mme. Chaucer Posted February 6, 2012 Author Posted February 6, 2012 -- Never volunteer information about fantasies. It's stupid and hurtful. I don't wish to be told my g/f was thinking Frank the butcher or w/e when I'm making love to her so stands to reason, she is going to feel bad hearing about some straying face that gives you a sexual boost. No way are you "obliged" to disclose your fantasies--you're obliged to keep your fantasies unique to just you and just accept that this is all cool. As long as your actions toward your lover are all complimentary to her or his happiness, what you think in a moment of sexual experience is to be discarded after it's utility has served that moment. It means nothing unless it is disclosed and then it takes on an immense life of its own well out of proportion for what it was. --My partner would not have to ask me to stop fantasizing about anyone else. I would give her no cause to be concerned by being an idiot and blabbing about how my psychological sexual organ works or how I use it. She is 100% free to engage her mind on whatever she feels like in the moment if it adds to what I'm doing and helps her have robust orgasms and feelings of ecstatic achievement. Don't ask-don't tell is the absolute best policy for this issue. I resent anyone trying to dictate what my mind should or shouldn't do and that would turn me off. That's what I think, too. I directed my question towards men specifically because this thread developed out of the "Male Psychology" one, but I really don't think gender makes any difference. I am wondering if there is even one person here (besides the lone vocal proponent of the idea) who will step forward and say that they do believe that they would be under obligation to tell their partner about any sexual thoughts / fantasies involving different people, that they should "control" themselves from having them, and expect the same from a spouse. It sounds like certain death for any relationship, to me. And, for the record, I don't happen to fantasize about other men. If I felt like it, though, I know I can roam wherever I wish in the convoluted world that is my imagination. Thank God.
thatone Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 personally? i look at every attractive woman possible and 'check out the goods'. do i act on that when i'm having sex with someone else? no. do i tell the one i'm having sex with that i do so? no. do i do it in a blatant way as if it's some sort of god given right? no, only when i won't get caught. and yeah, even when i had girlfriends that i was highly attracted to due to their physical beauty, i still looked when another one walked by and i could get away with a glance. /shrug
salparadise Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 I am wondering if there is even one person here (besides the lone vocal proponent of the idea) who will step forward and say that they do believe that they would be under obligation to tell their partner about any sexual thoughts / fantasies involving different people, that they should "control" themselves from having them, and expect the same from a spouse. It sounds like certain death for any relationship, to me. And, for the record, I don't happen to fantasize about other men. If I felt like it, though, I know I can roam wherever I wish in the convoluted world that is my imagination. Thank God. Anyone who says they don't fantasize is either lying or relegating it to the subconscious, imho. I think it's not only fine to talk about with your partner, but healthy as well. You have to do some judicious editing of the script for your partner's benefit, of course. It would be catastrophic to allow every thought that passes through one's brain come out one's mouth––people that do that have social issues. We should share in a way that enhances our relationships, not undermines them. That probably means keeping thoughts of her sister to yourself, while being able to say that you think a certain celebrity is sexy or describe scenarios. When you personalize raw sexual fantasies, make your partner the subject and reap the rewards. She knows that's not the limit of my imagination but appreciates that I know how to regulate it, and visa versa.
gaius Posted February 7, 2012 Posted February 7, 2012 I am wondering if there is even one person here (besides the lone vocal proponent of the idea) who will step forward and say that they do believe that they would be under obligation to tell their partner about any sexual thoughts / fantasies involving different people, that they should "control" themselves from having them, and expect the same from a spouse. I doubt it. As frisky said too much honesty is a bad thing, and most people figure that out pretty early on in dating. There are a couple women I've thought about since I first started masturbating way before my current girlfriend, and still do. I have not told her about them, and I doubt they are much of a threat as I don't communicate with them any more. Even If I did they probably wouldn't be the exact same people I remember. My fantasies would be ruined.
Feelin Frisky Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 That's what I think, too. I directed my question towards men specifically because this thread developed out of the "Male Psychology" one, but I really don't think gender makes any difference. I am wondering if there is even one person here (besides the lone vocal proponent of the idea) who will step forward and say that they do believe that they would be under obligation to tell their partner about any sexual thoughts / fantasies involving different people, that they should "control" themselves from having them, and expect the same from a spouse. It sounds like certain death for any relationship, to me. And, for the record, I don't happen to fantasize about other men. If I felt like it, though, I know I can roam wherever I wish in the convoluted world that is my imagination. Thank God. Though none have come forward to avow that they comply with the outline of your question, I'd bet the farm there are millions of people around the world who have some manner of sexual dysfunction based upon the long history of repression, guilt and orthodoxy. I think the number of people who feel duty bound to tell their spouse that they have fantasies that get them off that they invoke when they are engaged in sex with with that spouse but I'm sure there are many who have been guilted and shamed into confining their thoughts to their spouse and their sexual fulfillment suffers because of it. But who will come out as the champion of fantasy liberation? Perhaps it might make for a successful book. But I'm not so sure about a book-signing ceremony in Riad Saudi Arabia or wherever Pat Robertson broadcasts from.
Anela Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 I asked about how men might feel about their partner fantasizing about other men, because of all of the threads on porn and in the past, on going to strip clubs - some men said they didn't participate in either thing when in a relationship (or to the detriment of their relationship), but the men who thought they should be able to do what they wanted to, didn't like the idea of their girl receiving that sort of attention from other men. When I thought that I was in love, I didn't think about other men. I fantasized about him, and it took me a while to break that - I wanted to kill those feelings because they were automatically associated with him for me, and made me feel all the worse. I do know, though, of a young newlywed who was crushing on a TV star; her husband knew that she was in love (and lust) with him, and actually pretended to be her crush, making her laugh and love him all the more. I wasn't being judgemental when I asked.
xxoo Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 As the LS oddball member who shares fantasies with my partner, I do want to clarify that we don't REQUIRE each other to share them. We do so when we want to, for mutual fun. We know each other well enough to know if a shared fantasy will go over well or not, lol. I do know, though, of a young newlywed who was crushing on a TV star; her husband knew that she was in love (and lust) with him, and actually pretended to be her crush, making her laugh and love him all the more. That's us, though and through. (except we aren't newlyweds!)
Author Mme. Chaucer Posted February 8, 2012 Author Posted February 8, 2012 I asked about how men might feel about their partner fantasizing about other men, because of all of the threads on porn and in the past, on going to strip clubs - some men said they didn't participate in either thing when in a relationship (or to the detriment of their relationship), but the men who thought they should be able to do what they wanted to, didn't like the idea of their girl receiving that sort of attention from other men. I don't doubt that those guys (who think they should be able to do what they want) exhibit all kinds of selfishness in all areas of their relationships. I think that accepting the concept that your partner is likely to have sexual fantasies that don't necessarily feature you is a big step away from accepting your partner going to strip clubs.
Author Mme. Chaucer Posted February 8, 2012 Author Posted February 8, 2012 I'd bet the farm there are millions of people around the world who have some manner of sexual dysfunction based upon the long history of repression, guilt and orthodoxy. I think the number of people who feel duty bound to tell their spouse that they have fantasies that get them off that they invoke when they are engaged in sex with with that spouse but I'm sure there are many who have been guilted and shamed into confining their thoughts to their spouse and their sexual fulfillment suffers because of it. In fact, my husband teeters on the brink of this. He was raised as a strict Baptist and part of his upbringing involved some pretty shame based training from his pastor father about the relationship between Satan and his penis. Fortunately for me, we got together when he was already older and had managed to put most of this crap in its proper place, but I know that some of it is alive in him today. He isn't completely comfortable with his own sexuality. I think if I brought this question out on the table: "Do you feel okay about visualizing women other than me in a sexual way," and he answered honestly - I think his answer would be "no." IMO, our sex life would be better if he could get even further away from his childhood brainwashing. Working on that !
Feelin Frisky Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 In fact, my husband teeters on the brink of this. He was raised as a strict Baptist and part of his upbringing involved some pretty shame based training from his pastor father about the relationship between Satan and his penis. Fortunately for me, we got together when he was already older and had managed to put most of this crap in its proper place, but I know that some of it is alive in him today. He isn't completely comfortable with his own sexuality. I think if I brought this question out on the table: "Do you feel okay about visualizing women other than me in a sexual way," and he answered honestly - I think his answer would be "no." IMO, our sex life would be better if he could get even further away from his childhood brainwashing. Working on that ! Cool subject. Nice talking about it (especially since no crusader for the idealistic sanctity of uncompromising perfection hasn't steamed in.) Sharing an ecstatic catharsis with the person you are faithful to and treating them with gratitude for their part is enough. Mind control is just over the line and counter-productive.
Author Mme. Chaucer Posted February 8, 2012 Author Posted February 8, 2012 You know, I can understand an idealistic, romanticized view of this subject - where somebody is another person's "everything" and embodies / fulfills all desires. It's a very youthful point of view. I am quite sure that such an idealistic perspective is really at odds with actual human sexuality, regardless of the love. When such an ideal starts to be a (supposedly) enforceable requirement, I see it only as negative. I don't think it can happen without a whole truckload of shame involved. FF, I am sure you are right that there are a lot of well indoctrinated men who aren't contributing to this thread (and who probably aren't on LS, and who also would not believe it to be appropriate to even engage in this kind of conversation) who, all on their own, shut down ANY sexual imagery / urges / thoughts / desires that trigger their own shame. Well trained. But I bet that after all is said and done, their wives would have been a LOT happier if the guy was free in his mind.
thatone Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 You know, I can understand an idealistic, romanticized view of this subject - where somebody is another person's "everything" and embodies / fulfills all desires. It's a very youthful point of view. I am quite sure that such an idealistic perspective is really at odds with actual human sexuality, regardless of the love. When such an ideal starts to be a (supposedly) enforceable requirement, I see it only as negative. I don't think it can happen without a whole truckload of shame involved. FF, I am sure you are right that there are a lot of well indoctrinated men who aren't contributing to this thread (and who probably aren't on LS, and who also would not believe it to be appropriate to even engage in this kind of conversation) who, all on their own, shut down ANY sexual imagery / urges / thoughts / desires that trigger their own shame. Well trained. But I bet that after all is said and done, their wives would have been a LOT happier if the guy was free in his mind. i agree completely. just as much as the assumption you describe is a naive fantasy, it justifies insecurity in the other person. neither is healthy. i have caught women i'm with looking at other guys, and i have been caught looking at other women. so what? she's not going home with him, she's just looking. i usually play it off as a joke, "i'm not gay and even i think he's kinda hot". usually gets me a laugh and scores a couple of points, everyone is a winner .
Feelin Frisky Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 ... FF, I am sure you are right that there are a lot of well indoctrinated men who aren't contributing to this thread (and who probably aren't on LS, and who also would not believe it to be appropriate to even engage in this kind of conversation) who, all on their own, shut down ANY sexual imagery / urges / thoughts / desires that trigger their own shame. Well trained. But I bet that after all is said and done, their wives would have been a LOT happier if the guy was free in his mind. Oh and vice versa. I think women are probably most constricted by cultures of guilt and relationship purism. They are still so under the thumb of male authoritarianism in so many societies. Men, especially in those cultures, are laws unto themselves and know deep down regardless of how high they prop up god and the canon of faith-lore they ascribe themselves to, that they don't answer to anyone and do as they please in the moment. There are then many self-recriminations for fantasy about someone or something (sheep, camel or other man et al:p) else while having at their spouses afterward but the production of sperm and related delivery juices will drive them to return to break those rules again and again. Religion can indeed be poison. God help those who take wrath of those men who blame their partner for their own perceived mental transgression. It surely has happened and continues in private quaters around the world. So sad.
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