somedude81 Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 I've been called desperate, a gold digger and an escort in this same thread. You're not getting any sympathy from me. No you haven't. I just read over the entire thread. Nobody has said anything even remotely like that to you. And you can thank RecordProducer for bringing up hookers.
ascendotum Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 So for me, touching boobies is not easy at all. Well, unless I visited a hooker, but I wouldn't feel comfortable with that, and I bet she would reject me anyway. How I wish I could touch some though. You dont need I dream of jeanie to grant this wish. It can so easily become a reality for you tonight, just jump in the car and drive to a brothel or let your fingers do the walking and call up an escort. Dude you are really in a funk with this crap..."I bet she would reject me anyway." Pros see all sorts from decent looking high achieving financial types to fat ugly menial job types to the handicapped. Unless you have visible stds or stink or some gross deformity, you aint gonna be rejected. All you need is the £££ and you can touch some boobies, in under 24hrs.
joystickd Posted February 5, 2012 Posted February 5, 2012 You cannot really look at it as desperation. The way the game is set up, women reach for what is above them, the very best. Men are more willing to choose from a broader spectrum. In general. So ... a woman who is equal to you in the looks department will be reaching above you. And if she goes on a date with you, she might not 'like' you, but she'll give you a chance. That's just the way it is for some guys. It's no slight against you, it's just the way the world is. I know plenty of average looking dudes who have never been 'liked' by women in that way right off the bat. On the other hand, just about every woman I know has been the smoldering object of affection for some guy. Realize the rules of the game and play accordingly... Also, touching boobies is easy. I touched a boobie before I even kissed a woman. I think it's a male right of passage to do the strip club thing and grab a boobie for the first time. Actually if you look sometimes women do reach down to get a man. The thing is these men have other qualities that make them look past these men not looking so good in the looks department
RecordProducer Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 Yeah as opposed to going out with escorts whom you pay to talk, laugh, eat, drink, dance and walk with you. There is very small difference really between a woman who is a hooker and a woman who is not. No date is paid to do anything with you, but if you're not sure, then only go out with women who pay for themselves. Please note, the question of who picks up the tab was not relevant to OP's topic. OP has a legit inquiry, not to mention her consideration of men's feelings. She basically asked you to choose which option you prefer and the options were: (a) I prefer to know in advance if the woman is not totally into me, in which case I would not want to go out with her because love on the first sight/instant mutual attraction is very important to me; OR (b) I am fine with the woman not being completely into me at the moment, but would love to have a shot at impressing her with my fun personality, sense of humor, intelligence, kindness and good manners; after all, my dad was courting my mom for 6 months before she let him kiss her and now they've been happily married for 35 years. (just an example, not my parents' case) You were supposed to choose between those two options. But you guys only care about groping a boob on a first date. How sad. And both demeaning and self-demeaning.
allina Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 I think that giving someone a chance that you aren't really in to is a bad idea. Especially if physical attraction is the area that is lacking. Even if the guy ends up charming the woman with his personality and they end up dating he'll always be that "great guy" that she was never really attracted to. I've seen women do this. They end up giving a guy a chance because he's "soooooo nice" and they fall for the attention and the way he makes them feel but not for HIM. These relationships quickly fizzle since the woman is never really in to the guy. Roles being reversed, I would never want a guy that wasn't really in to me to give me a chance because he wasn't having luck with those that he finds desirable (what the OP is doing). I would never want someone to try to force themselves to like me, that sounds horribly depressing.
jobaba Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 I think that giving someone a chance that you aren't really in to is a bad idea. Especially if physical attraction is the area that is lacking. Even if the guy ends up charming the woman with his personality and they end up dating he'll always be that "great guy" that she was never really attracted to. I've seen women do this. They end up giving a guy a chance because he's "soooooo nice" and they fall for the attention and the way he makes them feel but not for HIM. These relationships quickly fizzle since the woman is never really in to the guy. Roles being reversed, I would never want a guy that wasn't really in to me to give me a chance because he wasn't having luck with those that he finds desirable (what the OP is doing). I would never want someone to try to force themselves to like me, that sounds horribly depressing. Tsk, tsk, tsk ... *shakes head* Yet another woman who has no idea how the other half lives... I can name a number of men who no woman has ever thought was 'hot' off the bat, and if there weren't women who gave men like us a chance ... if every woman decided within the first 5 seconds if a man was dateable or not ... then ... 1) Those men would not get dates ... 2) Those women who you have convinced not to give guys who aren't hot a chance would die off as well... Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and not just how dating works in your own bubble. People who think that every single person has a number of people who are physically attracted to them are sorely mistaken...
allina Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 Tsk, tsk, tsk ... *shakes head* Yet another woman who has no idea how the other half lives... I can name a number of men who no woman has ever thought was 'hot' off the bat, and if there weren't women who gave men like us a chance ... if every woman decided within the first 5 seconds if a man was dateable or not ... then ... 1) Those men would not get dates ... 2) Those women who you have convinced not to give guys who aren't hot a chance would die off as well... Sometimes you have to look at the big picture and not just how dating works in your own bubble. People who think that every single person has a number of people who are physically attracted to them are sorely mistaken... I'm not sure what you mean by the "other half" do you mean men? Also, in my opinion I am looking at the big picture. A happy, fulfilling and lasting relationship needs the big picture/whole package and physical attraction and lust are important components of that big picture. I've dated a guy before because he made me laugh and was a great guy. He was a good friend who wanted more from me, I gave in, ruined the friendship and it was a disaster. We are often called shallow for not finding someone attractive and guilted in to giving someone a chance when that spark cannot be forced. In my opinion the whole giving someone you don't like a chance is patronizing and a lose-lose situation.
musemaj11 Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 If you pay the hooker, she won't reject you. You obviously know little about hookers. Unless they are under forced work, hookers are just as picky as other women. They can either say no to an extremely undesirable client or jack up the price. Compare that to women who will be with ugly old men as long as they can come up with the right amount of money. Not very different really. Every woman has her price. No date is paid to do anything with you, Yea thats what sucks about paying a non-hooker. Even if you pay her, she is under no obligation to not run with the money.
jobaba Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) I'm not sure what you mean by the "other half" do you mean men? Also, in my opinion I am looking at the big picture. A happy, fulfilling and lasting relationship needs the big picture/whole package and physical attraction and lust are important components of that big picture. I've dated a guy before because he made me laugh and was a great guy. He was a good friend who wanted more from me, I gave in, ruined the friendship and it was a disaster. We are often called shallow for not finding someone attractive and guilted in to giving someone a chance when that spark cannot be forced. In my opinion the whole giving someone you don't like a chance is patronizing and a lose-lose situation. You REALLY don't understand, do you? It's pretty simple. There's some people out there who will never be considered hot off the bat by ANYBODY. So, for them, they have to be given a chance and create attraction. I'm not trying to tell you to change your sense of attraction. You're not going to do that. I am telling you to realize that there's people out there like that (who are not hideous by any means). So, don't think everybody needs to have that 'off the bat, he's so hot' attraction that you need. 'Cuz if everybody did, there'd be a lot of lonely people. :( Consider your position. Your a woman, maybe average, maybe better. You've had a lot of guys who are INTO you and think you're hot. They did the first time they saw you. There are TONS of people who don't experience this. In other words, consider the 'other half'... Edited February 6, 2012 by jobaba
Ross MwcFan Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 No date is paid to do anything with you, but if you're not sure, then only go out with women who pay for themselves. Please note, the question of who picks up the tab was not relevant to OP's topic. OP has a legit inquiry, not to mention her consideration of men's feelings. She basically asked you to choose which option you prefer and the options were: (a) I prefer to know in advance if the woman is not totally into me, in which case I would not want to go out with her because love on the first sight/instant mutual attraction is very important to me; OR (b) I am fine with the woman not being completely into me at the moment, but would love to have a shot at impressing her with my fun personality, sense of humor, intelligence, kindness and good manners; after all, my dad was courting my mom for 6 months before she let him kiss her and now they've been happily married for 35 years. (just an example, not my parents' case) You were supposed to choose between those two options. But you guys only care about groping a boob on a first date. How sad. And both demeaning and self-demeaning. In your opinion...
Ross MwcFan Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 I'm not sure what you mean by the "other half" do you mean men? Also, in my opinion I am looking at the big picture. A happy, fulfilling and lasting relationship needs the big picture/whole package and physical attraction and lust are important components of that big picture. I've dated a guy before because he made me laugh and was a great guy. He was a good friend who wanted more from me, I gave in, ruined the friendship and it was a disaster. We are often called shallow for not finding someone attractive and guilted in to giving someone a chance when that spark cannot be forced. In my opinion the whole giving someone you don't like a chance is patronizing and a lose-lose situation. Some women, do end up finding a guy physically attractive after getting to know him because she really likes his personality, and vice versa. I'm not saying it will always happen, but it does sometimes happen.
Titania22 Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 I only read the first 2 pages, and what I find really interesting about this thread is:- the guys I have been really really interested in, were the guys I never would have considered at first glance. So if they had asked me out I would have likely just rejected them straight off. Even if I hadn't rejected them, I certainly wouldn't have been thinking about kissing them. And yet from the moment I became interested I would have been all over them if I had the chance. But (in the 1st 2 pages at least) we have a thread that basically says if we don't have that immediate at least partial interest, we should immediately reject without a moments pause. And this from guys who admit in other threads that women don't like them straight off. Well on the bright side these men are unlikely to ask any of us out, and since we aren't immediately interested we won't be asking them out either.
dispatch3d Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 yeah, so, In my opinion if you date more you'll probably end up meeting someone you like. If the initial attraction/zing isn't there, I don't know what to say. Sometimes it will develop, other times it won't.
Dust Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 To all the Somedudes out there I say this. Go out with a girl who knowingly hates you if you still like her. Seriously the James Bond in me would knowingly date a girl who wanted to kill me if I found myself attracted.
GoodOnPaper Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 But (in the 1st 2 pages at least) we have a thread that basically says if we don't have that immediate at least partial interest, we should immediately reject without a moments pause. And this from guys who admit in other threads that women don't like them straight off. You have to realize that a hallmark "nice guy" characteristic is having difficulty navigating the line between attraction-at-first-glance and friendzone. This probably comes naturally to players and others who would be considered successful at attracting women. However, to me -- and I imagine others with "nice guy" tendencies -- this line seemed like a tightrope over Niagara Falls and I always fell off on the friendzone side. Thus the perception that women are only attracted to guys within the first few minutes of meeting them. I'm sure that perception is not entirely realistic but I don't know how you break yourself of it. If I could do things over again, I probably would have tried more "cold-calling" and embraced the "practice" aspect of attraction/dating more.
carhill Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 Well on the bright side these men are unlikely to ask any of us out, and since we aren't immediately interested we won't be asking them out either. That may be true for some of the younger men, but my datapoints result from 32 years of experience, 22 of it being single. Of the hundreds to thousands of women I've met and the dozens I've felt enough 'desire' to ask out on an official 'date', it has been the ones who 'waffle' who have caused the most heartache. Fortunately, there have been many bright bulbs of women who reject clearly, quickly and politely (thank you!) and those whom I've had relationships with and was married to who didn't waffle. All were 'cold calls'; all were 'strangers'. I've never had a relationship grow out an 'association' with a woman, ever. I may be wrong but I can recall a 'date' ever growing out of such a circumstance either, not due to lack of effort on my part. It is what it is. Does it apply to everyone? No! The OP was asking for the opinions of 'nice guys', something I had considered myself to be in the past. I'm not anymore. I'm a mean old fµck who doesn't like to be generalized about
jobaba Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 But (in the 1st 2 pages at least) we have a thread that basically says if we don't have that immediate at least partial interest, we should immediately reject without a moments pause. And this from guys who admit in other threads that women don't like them straight off. Well on the bright side these men are unlikely to ask any of us out, and since we aren't immediately interested we won't be asking them out either. Excellent point that I can address. If the OP had a guy fall for her, and later found out he wasn't attracted to her initially but her inner qualities drew him, she might be insulted. She might feel like he settled or was desperate. That is the same feeling these guys have. They probably don't know yet that women are VERY picky when it comes to initial attraction and they may NEVER be initially physically attractive to a woman. So, the only chance they may have is taking the opportunity the OP describes and hitting it out of the park! If she's the right type of woman, once you hook her, she WILL be attracted to you just as much as if she thought you were hot the first time she saw you. Life is not a fairytale. You gotta take what you can get.
JohnP82 Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 So would you rather a girl who really isn't interested in you giving you a "shot" by giving you a date or two or would you prefer she just turn you down and say no from the beginning to spare you the possible rejection or heart break? I would rather her be honest and pass. Why would I want to take someone out on a date, to try to get to know her when she is admittedly not really interested in me? I've done the whole chasing thing in my past and have succeeded with some women, but looking back I never should have gone for them. Feeling like you have to convince someone to be with you isn't a very good feeling.
Mme. Chaucer Posted February 6, 2012 Posted February 6, 2012 "Dating" is supposed to be a social experience about getting to know one another. The idea that a "grope" is what most guys require in order to not feel bad about a date is really far fetched. I think that if you are interested enough to sincerely feel like investigating, you should go with that. You're not leading him on; you are open to getting to know him more and to letting him get to know you. Conversely, if you are repulsed by the fellow, I advise you to pass! I hope that you and the guy both enjoy yourselves and have a good time. You know, many of us are kind of stuck being attracted to a "type" that might not really be good for us. It's healthy to explore other options.
RecordProducer Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Some women, do end up finding a guy physically attractive after getting to know him because she really likes his personality, and vice versa. I'm not saying it will always happen, but it does sometimes happen.Yup. Happened to me with both my ex-husbands. Yeah, you could go deeper into why they are both exes, but just as a possibility, it does occur - and they even dumped me! Two as*holes! Compare that to women who will be with ugly old men as long as they can come up with the right amount of money. Not very different really. Every woman has her price. Yea thats what sucks about paying a non-hooker. Even if you pay her, she is under no obligation to not run with the money. Musemaj, you strike me as a severely f*cked up person. All you ever talk about is the price of women. You think women won't go out with you because they are all whores after the rich men's money.
RecordProducer Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 If the OP had a guy fall for her, and later found out he wasn't attracted to her initially but her inner qualities drew him, she might be insulted. She might feel like he settled or was desperate. That is the same feeling these guys have. They probably don't know yet that women are VERY picky when it comes to initial attraction and they may NEVER be initially physically attractive to a woman. So, the only chance they may have is taking the opportunity the OP describes and hitting it out of the park! If she's the right type of woman, once you hook her, she WILL be attracted to you just as much as if she thought you were hot the first time she saw you. Life is not a fairytale. You gotta take what you can get. GRRRRRREAT POST!!! Yes, if you look like Deni DeVito, it's highly unlikely that you will have your dream girl at hello.
zengirl Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 (edited) ETA: I'd be careful with the phrase nice guys. A lot of people use it to mean 'unsuccessful guys.' The so-called nice guys here don't seem that nice to me. As long as the shot is real, meaning you'd let me at least get a kiss, then yes. But a half-ass shot where you already decided that we are going just as friends and all I'm going to get is a hug, don't waste my time. I agree that going on a date 'as a friend' is silly, but that doesn't necessarily mean the gal is going to want to kiss you at the end of it. Honestly, I've NEVER been on a first date (not even with guys I knew beforehand or men I wound up in relationships with) and known before it was over -- and sometimes not even then -- if I wanted to kiss the guy or not. That's something I have to date someone to figure out. I've rarely been on a first date with someone where I kissed the guy, and pretty much never kissed a guy on a first date who later turned into a serious relationship. There were a couple of times I wanted to, but there wasn't a good chance. Most of my kisses came on 2nd dates. I think it's wrong to string a guy along, but a first date is just a first date. It really shouldn't be anything but getting to know the person a little better. The OP is trying NOT to rule the guy out, so I don't think she's going into it thinking she wants more friends, but that doesn't mean it'll pan out and the guy will see any action, not even a kiss. I If every "date" was cancelled if the woman wasn't 90% sure she'd end up liking her partner enough to have sex with him at some point then most restaurants would be out of business by now. Things are hardly ever black and white for women. It's not like a woman is either interested or not. While we can see within seconds if we're attracted to a female and would like to have sex with her or not, a woman is extremely rarely gonna feel attraction before spending some time with a guy and "getting to know him" at least a little bit. All you can do is take every chance you're offered, no matter how small. There's a reason why "getting lucky" is slang for "having sex". True enough. "Dating" is supposed to be a social experience about getting to know one another. The idea that a "grope" is what most guys require in order to not feel bad about a date is really far fetched. I think that if you are interested enough to sincerely feel like investigating, you should go with that. You're not leading him on; you are open to getting to know him more and to letting him get to know you. Conversely, if you are repulsed by the fellow, I advise you to pass! I hope that you and the guy both enjoy yourselves and have a good time. You know, many of us are kind of stuck being attracted to a "type" that might not really be good for us. It's healthy to explore other options. Also true. It's good to see new options and perspectives; a lot of time, your 'type' needs some revisions! Edited February 9, 2012 by zengirl
otherfish Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 For me....give me a "shot", a date or two. Reason: Because if Iam attracted to you initially there is no question that I have enough confidence in myself to intrigue you. I have a pretty interesting life story and people (women) seem to be compelled to want to know more about me once I get that initial one on one. Also, Im pretty HOT for a 40 y/o, white, male. My ability to make a woman feel like she has known me for years makes me even HOTTER!! (or so they tell me, LOL) I have been in 4 intense-serious-loving relationships. 3 of the 4 have come back to give it another try...and Im currently in NC to see what this 4th one will do. She is a tough cookie so we will see.......
musemaj11 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Musemaj, you strike me as a severely f*cked up person. All you ever talk about is the price of women. You think women won't go out with you because they are all whores after the rich men's money. Women go out with me. But I have to pay for it with meals and entertainment.
jobaba Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Excellent point that I can address. If the OP had a guy fall for her, and later found out he wasn't attracted to her initially but her inner qualities drew him, she might be insulted. She might feel like he settled or was desperate. That is the same feeling these guys have. They probably don't know yet that women are VERY picky when it comes to initial attraction and they may NEVER be initially physically attractive to a woman. So, the only chance they may have is taking the opportunity the OP describes and hitting it out of the park! If she's the right type of woman, once you hook her, she WILL be attracted to you just as much as if she thought you were hot the first time she saw you. Life is not a fairytale. You gotta take what you can get. GRRRRRREAT POST!!! Yes, if you look like Deni DeVito, it's highly unlikely that you will have your dream girl at hello. Thank you. That's a little extreme. Danny DeVito is 4'10" and known to most people as being fat, old, and bald. http://www.google.com/imgres?um=1&hl=en&client=firefox-a&sa=N&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=1600&bih=781&tbm=isch&tbnid=Vr3LIpbfpTWvdM:&imgrefurl=http://celebritiesgettingfat.com/2011/08/dat-fat-hollywood-story-the-big-story-of-danny-devito/&docid=WwhKpKUFgwo2oM&imgurl=http://celebritiesgettingfat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/devito_one_flew_over_1975_Martini.png&w=474&h=422&ei=UX01T8yQBaPx0gHmi5G2Ag&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=295&vpy=145&dur=406&hovh=191&hovw=214&tx=143&ty=112&sig=106747106848394077863&page=1&tbnh=128&tbnw=139&start=0&ndsp=36&ved=1t:429,r:1,s:0 There's a pic of a relatively young Danny DeVito. Not bad looking. Somedude and Ross are neither old, bald, or below 5' tall. Many average and slightly below average men are not considered instantly attractive by most women. Women are pretty picky about looks. I can name a number of men I know off the top of my head who fall into this category. They are of average height and looks ... all that jazz. Women are just pickier than men when it comes to looks.
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