The mind of young attractive women

[mo mo]

I'm sorry Mo mo, had no idea you idea you were talking about girls who act like that. Didn't even know girls like that existed outside reality TV.

 

That's terrible. I feel sorry that you guys have to deal with those women.

 

Looks like EnigmaticClarity was right.

 

It's ok. Like I said, I do value your opinion. You're not like the chicks I described so you don't really understand why they do the things they do.

 

It's kind of like if a female asked me why all guys are lying, cheating players. I'm not like that so I can't really explain why guys do those things.

[salparadise]

Didn't even know girls like that existed outside reality TV. [...] That's terrible. I feel sorry that you guys have to deal with those women

 

Oh yea, they exist alright! It helps to understand and accept the ground rules... mating rituals are extremely complex transactions and women are far more selective than men. A reasonably attractive woman can get herself laid any time, any place. So to them it's all about being able to attract high-value candidates for potential long-term relationship (as opposed to a quick romp, which they know they can have any time) and they will repeatedly test their charm on men to determine how high up the attractiveness/socioeconomic/suitability ladder it will take them. It's not at all about fairness, altruism, generosity, or what the guy wishes it would be... it's about maximizing the female's reproductive success. Young women are constantly trying to enhance their potential and become more attractive by refining their style, makeup, hair, clothes, figure, etc. It's only natural that a testing program would be part of this process. Guys do it too, but a guy is usually willing to settle for the best he can do in this moment (with a certain baseline) whereas a woman is predisposed to delay gratification for the better result eventually. A guy's best strategy is to appear to be great relationship material and provide the subtle cues she's looking for to indicate that he's relationship oriented and has a lot to offer, i.e., that he's a truly high-value candidate. Then, he needs to connect on a personal level as quickly and firmly as possible to make himself more in her eyes than another generic candidate. Guys also need to understand that it's not good to get to invested based on a little flirting because only a fraction of potential matches are destined to work out.

[kaylan]

In this thread: dudes over-analyzing why they get rejected and blaming others when the only common factor in each situation is them.

 

Dont sweat it and keep it moving dudes. Not everyone is going to be into you and thats for a variety of reasons.

[mo mo]

Oh yea, they exist alright! It helps to understand and accept the ground rules... mating rituals are extremely complex transactions and women are far more selective than men. A reasonably attractive woman can get herself laid any time, any place. So to them it's all about being able to attract high-value candidates for potential long-term relationship (as opposed to a quick romp, which they know they can have any time) and they will repeatedly test their charm on men to determine how high up the attractiveness/socioeconomic/suitability ladder it will take them. It's not at all about fairness, altruism, generosity, or what the guy wishes it would be... it's about maximizing the female's reproductive success. Young women are constantly trying to enhance their potential and become more attractive by refining their style, makeup, hair, clothes, figure, etc. It's only natural that a testing program would be part of this process. Guys do it too, but a guy is usually willing to settle for the best he can do in this moment (with a certain baseline) whereas a woman is predisposed to delay gratification for the better result eventually. A guy's best strategy is to appear to be great relationship material and provide the subtle cues she's looking for to indicate that he's relationship oriented and has a lot to offer, i.e., that he's a truly high-value candidate. Then, he needs to connect on a personal level as quickly and firmly as possible to make himself more in her eyes than another generic candidate. Guys also need to understand that it's not good to get to invested based on a little flirting because only a fraction of potential matches are destined to work out.

 

This is an interesting break down but I know it isn't always true. A lot of women will run the hell away from guys they think are relationship material and instead go looking for the quick romps.

[mo mo]

In this thread: dudes over-analyzing why they get rejected and blaming others when the only common factor in each situation is them.

 

Dont sweat it and keep it moving dudes. Not everyone is going to be into you and thats for a variety of reasons.

 

In this post: someone who didn't really read the thread.

 

[poodle]

mating rituals are extremely complex transactions and women are far more selective than men. A reasonably attractive woman can get herself laid any time, any place. So to them it's all about being able to attract high-value candidates for potential long-term relationship (as opposed to a quick romp, which they know they can have any time) and they will repeatedly test their charm on men to determine how high up the attractiveness/socioeconomic/suitability ladder it will take them.

That certainly seems to be the case in this situation, but please keep in mind that not all young attractive women act this way. I've browsed the forums a bit and it looks like a lot of guys expect women to be these evil selfish money-loving creatures, which generally isn't true. At least not the part of the world where I live.

 

I hope this doesn't take the thread off-topic, but Mo mo, could you share whether these girls had anything in common other than being young and attractive? Would you say they were middle class, educated, professional or just giggly oompaloompas?

[mo mo]

That certainly seems to be the case in this situation, but please keep in mind that not all young attractive women act this way. I've browsed the forums a bit and it looks like a lot of guys expect women to be these evil selfish money-loving creatures, which generally isn't true. At least not the part of the world where I live.

 

I hope this doesn't take the thread off-topic, but Mo mo, could you share whether these girls had anything in common other than being young and attractive? Would you say they were middle class, educated, professional or just giggly oompaloompas?

 

There really isn't anything in common other than they all seem to be very immature. Some were educated, some not, some middle class, some poor, some just giggly, etc.

[kaylan]

In this post: someone who didn't really read the thread.

 

I stand by what I originally posted in this thread. This is a repetitive topic.

 

Its just another variation of a "why doesnt she like me?" thread.

[zengirl]

I am curious about how the mind of a young attractive woman works.

 

Do you assume they all work the same?

 

In my experience, the overwhelming majority of young attractive women are flaky as hell.

 

Now I'm not talking about them acting like they're the **** and untouchable by the common man. Even though that's a ****ed up way to think, it's actually kind of understandable.

 

I'm talking about the chicks who initially show interest in you and then act like the encounter never happened, or act like you're the one that's all over them and they are trying to get away from you.

 

Well, young people in general (teens and early 20s) are generally fairly 'flaky' comparative to other people, meaning they're in constant flux. Young people, in general, are still sorting things out -- some more than others, but I don't think attractiveness factors in that much. YMMV. I presume these interactions are happening with near-strangers and often in social settings, like bars, where people are often not quite themselves and attempting to subdue awkwardness with alcohol or music or whatnot.

 

So. . . basically, it's not really flaking to change your mind in such situations, but a natural byproduct of the dynamic situations, especially mixed with youth. In essence, the mind was never 'made up' and thus never 'changed.' It's all an assessment.

 

And, yes, sometimes, it's probably a bit of validation. Both men and women seek validation from other people, and attractive people often seek validation on their attractiveness. Particularly young, attractive people. (People who flat-out KNOW they're not attractive aren't going to seek validation, though they might seek constant invalidation in unhealthy ways; other story for another day.) They're still getting used to their attractiveness. Youth is wasted on the young, after all.

 

Here are some real examples:

 

1) You notice a girl has checked you out, you get the courage to talk to her, joke around with her for a few minutes, she's into it, then you decide to keep it moving because you are both busy. Next time you see her she avoids you.

 

2) The girl sees you and gets the courage to flirt with you for a few minutes, you're a bit flattered. You get a hold of her when she's less busy and get her number. She talks to you on the phone, agrees you two should hang out, then she never responds to calls or texts again. Sees you again and acts all strange.

 

3) Girl you used to know sees you somewhere, flirts with you, gives you her number, e-mail address, work phone number, etc. Talks to you on the phone once, says she is busy and will call back, you never hear from her again

 

1. Options: (a) She's not as into it as you think, particularly once you start talking. (b) She wasn't actually checking you out, but she tried to be polite, felt awkward about it, and thus doesn't want it to happen again. © She WAS into you, and then you abruptly left the conversation, leaving her feeling like you weren't interested, so she avoided you. Probably other scenarios too, but those 3 come to mind at the description.

 

2. She changed her mind; could be because of you, could be because of her, and could be because she's into someone else. She's young so she hasn't yet learned how to assert herself and just SAY that she changed her mind. Hopefully she'll get there someday.

 

3. (a) She lost interest. (b) She really was busy, you weren't a huge priority, and she forgot. © She wanted to talk to you, but didn't see it as flirting, but felt like you did and then got uncomfortable. Any number of other options as well, really.

 

The point is, people can feel totally differently about social situations than they APPEAR to. I will say that young women are more likely than young men to be afraid of just saying, "I don't want to talk to you." And young men are notoriously bad at hearing, "I don't want to talk to you," for their part; trust me, as a woman who's been a young hot girl and had to tell many, many men I was not into any sort of discourse with them. I've had men tell me I was flirting with them, looking at them, etc, sometimes when I didn't even speak to them, sometimes when I was being truly friendly.

 

Not all men, of course. But, overall, I do think young guys are WAY worse at taking rejection than older men, and young women are WAY worse at asserting themselves and truly rejecting (rather than flaking) men honestly than older women. It's just something we build up as we age and grow into ourselves.

 

I realize that, but don't you think avoiding the person is taking it a bit far? No one has even talked about going on a date yet, why act like the guy (or girl) should be avoided?

 

Maybe they actually want to avoid you. Maybe she just doesn't want to have to assert herself and reject you because she was socialized, as most young women are, that it's not NICE to do so and feels naturally awkward at actually verbalizing how she feels: she was potentially interested, but she is certain she's not now. Or she was never interested, but you took it the wrong way, and she doesn't know how to say so. Either one.

Edited February 4, 2012 by zengirl

[Easyguy14]

I am curious about how the mind of a young attractive woman works.

 

In my experience, the overwhelming majority of young attractive women are flaky as hell.

 

Now I'm not talking about them acting like they're the **** and untouchable by the common man. Even though that's a ****ed up way to think, it's actually kind of understandable.

 

I'm talking about the chicks who initially show interest in you and then act like the encounter never happened, or act like you're the one that's all over them and they are trying to get away from you.

 

Here are some real examples:

 

1) You notice a girl has checked you out, you get the courage to talk to her, joke around with her for a few minutes, she's into it, then you decide to keep it moving because you are both busy. Next time you see her she avoids you.

 

2) The girl sees you and gets the courage to flirt with you for a few minutes, you're a bit flattered. You get a hold of her when she's less busy and get her number. She talks to you on the phone, agrees you two should hang out, then she never responds to calls or texts again. Sees you again and acts all strange.

 

3) Girl you used to know sees you somewhere, flirts with you, gives you her number, e-mail address, work phone number, etc. Talks to you on the phone once, says she is busy and will call back, you never hear from her again

 

Just a few examples, but you get the idea. What the hell is going on here???

 

Guys, please share any ideas and/or grief about these situations.

 

this often happens because of the venue in which you met her, like in the street somewhere, you know, like a train station or in passing. she doesn't really know you so the flake is easier. meeting a good-looking woman in a social place where you have a chance of seeing her again would increase the chance of her giving you some leeway if she's interested.

[mo mo]

I stand by what I originally posted in this thread. This is a repetitive topic.

 

Its just another variation of a "why doesnt she like me?" thread.

 

Actually no. It really isn't.

 

But whatever, I'm not going to bother trying to convince you because you have already made up your mind.

[mo mo]

Do you assume they all work the same?

 

 

 

Well, young people in general (teens and early 20s) are generally fairly 'flaky' comparative to other people, meaning they're in constant flux. Young people, in general, are still sorting things out -- some more than others, but I don't think attractiveness factors in that much. YMMV. I presume these interactions are happening with near-strangers and often in social settings, like bars, where people are often not quite themselves and attempting to subdue awkwardness with alcohol or music or whatnot.

 

So. . . basically, it's not really flaking to change your mind in such situations, but a natural byproduct of the dynamic situations, especially mixed with youth. In essence, the mind was never 'made up' and thus never 'changed.' It's all an assessment.

 

And, yes, sometimes, it's probably a bit of validation. Both men and women seek validation from other people, and attractive people often seek validation on their attractiveness. Particularly young, attractive people. (People who flat-out KNOW they're not attractive aren't going to seek validation, though they might seek constant invalidation in unhealthy ways; other story for another day.) They're still getting used to their attractiveness. Youth is wasted on the young, after all.

 

 

 

1. Options: (a) She's not as into it as you think, particularly once you start talking. (b) She wasn't actually checking you out, but she tried to be polite, felt awkward about it, and thus doesn't want it to happen again. © She WAS into you, and then you abruptly left the conversation, leaving her feeling like you weren't interested, so she avoided you. Probably other scenarios too, but those 3 come to mind at the description.

 

2. She changed her mind; could be because of you, could be because of her, and could be because she's into someone else. She's young so she hasn't yet learned how to assert herself and just SAY that she changed her mind. Hopefully she'll get there someday.

 

3. (a) She lost interest. (b) She really was busy, you weren't a huge priority, and she forgot. © She wanted to talk to you, but didn't see it as flirting, but felt like you did and then got uncomfortable. Any number of other options as well, really.

 

The point is, people can feel totally differently about social situations than they APPEAR to. I will say that young women are more likely than young men to be afraid of just saying, "I don't want to talk to you." And young men are notoriously bad at hearing, "I don't want to talk to you," for their part; trust me, as a woman who's been a young hot girl and had to tell many, many men I was not into any sort of discourse with them. I've had men tell me I was flirting with them, looking at them, etc, sometimes when I didn't even speak to them, sometimes when I was being truly friendly.

 

Not all men, of course. But, overall, I do think young guys are WAY worse at taking rejection than older men, and young women are WAY worse at asserting themselves and truly rejecting (rather than flaking) men honestly than older women. It's just something we build up as we age and grow into ourselves.

 

 

 

Maybe they actually want to avoid you. Maybe she just doesn't want to have to assert herself and reject you because she was socialized, as most young women are, that it's not NICE to do so and feels naturally awkward at actually verbalizing how she feels: she was potentially interested, but she is certain she's not now. Or she was never interested, but you took it the wrong way, and she doesn't know how to say so. Either one.

 

Interesting breakdown. In a way, you gave a lot of different possible reasons, most of which I've thought about. In another way you basically detailed a lack of maturity in all of the scenarios.

[zengirl]

Interesting breakdown. In a way, you gave a lot of different possible reasons, most of which I've thought about. In another way you basically detailed a lack of maturity in all of the scenarios.

 

Well, yes, all young people lack maturity (some are mature for their age, sure). They're young! And maturity comes with age and is relative. Most of the time when we say someone 'lacks maturity' we mean that they lack relative maturity, which I wouldn't say is true in those scenarios, as that's probably about the average level of maturity for both young men and women (I'm assuming you're speaking college aged or younger here; I really don't know how young you mean). You, socialized as a male, might see it as immature to not be able to properly assert yourself, but most women are not socialized in childhood or their teen years to do that; they are very much socialized AGAINST doing that.

 

There are Guy Codes and there are Girl Codes, and you have to understand that in Girl Codes, a lot of what is said is left unsaid. Women take hints from each other that men don't get, women communicate with what they don't say. . . it's how they are taught to behave. So, a woman communicating with you in a way that is not upfront and direct is not a lack of maturity, comparative to that age at all --- it's merely what she's probably been socialized to do! You cannot expect her to react the way you've been socialized as she hasn't been privy to the same assertiveness training boys and young men get.

[mo mo]

Maybe they actually want to avoid you. Maybe she just doesn't want to have to assert herself and reject you because she was socialized, as most young women are, that it's not NICE to do so and feels naturally awkward at actually verbalizing how she feels: she was potentially interested, but she is certain she's not now. Or she was never interested, but you took it the wrong way, and she doesn't know how to say so. Either one.

 

How about when a girl I used to know is all friendly with me, then she does the avoiding thing for a while. The one day after some time passes she sees me again and she is super flirty and gives me her number (I didn't ask for it)?

[zengirl]

How about when a girl I used to know is all friendly with me, then she does the avoiding thing for a while. The one day after some time passes she sees me again and she is super flirty and gives me her number (I didn't ask for it)?

 

My guess is either:

 

(a) She was into someone else during the avoiding time, perhaps even seeing someone.

 

OR

 

(b) She is confused as to your interest level and avoided you because she felt bad about not getting the reception she hoped (in her mind) when she was friendly the first time. Then, she got her courage up the time she was flirty.

 

The first is human nature; the second is a bit immature, but you'll see it in a lot of people.

[Mme. Chaucer]

I'm certainly not a young attractive woman, but I was.

 

First, I think it's a no-win scenario for you to even try to analyze this. Since you seem to have an almost identical scenario with women from many different spheres, it really might be something you're doing that cuts off their interest. Looking into that possibility might yield more benefits than looking for a key to the "mind of young attractive women." There are probably lots of current and former young attractive women reading this thread right now who have minds working in all kinds of different ways. I think it's a bad area to try to generalize.

 

Also, I have to comment on this:

 

A reasonably attractive woman can get herself laid any time, any place.

 

This is a nugget of "wisdom" that is trotted out here on the dating boards with annoying frequency.

 

I hate to generalize, but I am about to.

 

This must be a "male" way of thinking, because it is a rare woman, whether she is gorgeous or butt ugly, who even considers that she could "get herself laid, any time, any place." Though it is probably true, this has almost NO value to the average woman. The knowledge that a horny guy would screw us even if he thought we were a dog, stupid, stank like a goat or hated our guts doesn't do much for us women. It's not the advantage that sex mad young men (and I mean that in a nice way! I'm not against sex crazed young men!) believe it to be. Sure, having guys attracted to us is flattering, but what most of us really want is to be actually liked.

 

So guys, I would remove this line of thinking from your lexicon about what's going on between guys and girls in the "dating game."

[stillafool]

 

 

 

Attractive people have so many options, that even if they are open to getting to know you, they simple forget, due to exploring their other options; they might go on a date after they meet you, and end up wanting to go with that person.

 

..

 

The above is your answer. Young, attractive women have a ton of options and unless you hook them emotionally they will move on.

[ThaWholigan]

This is a nugget of "wisdom" that is trotted out here on the dating boards with annoying frequency.

 

I hate to generalize, but I am about to.

 

This must be a "male" way of thinking, because it is a rare woman, whether she is gorgeous or butt ugly, who even considers that she could "get herself laid, any time, any place." Though it is probably true, this has almost NO value to the average woman. The knowledge that a horny guy would screw us even if he thought we were a dog, stupid, stank like a goat or hated our guts doesn't do much for us women. It's not the advantage that sex mad young men (and I mean that in a nice way! I'm not against sex crazed young men!) believe it to be. Sure, having guys attracted to us is flattering, but what most of us really want is to be actually liked.

 

So guys, I would remove this line of thinking from your lexicon about what's going on between guys and girls in the "dating game."

 

I think this is something that gets lost in the minds of men, simply because a lot of men mistakenly believe that they would love this if they had as many women dying to screw them.

 

I used to be the same, until I started to consider what it would be like if hordes of women I did not know or have any feelings of attraction to kept trying to have sex with me. I have reached an understand of why women do not think it is an advantage - and why men do!

[dizy]

hey, I disagree with what some people said about she might have other options, she realized that she wasnt that into you etc. most of the attractive young women that I know dont have THAT MANY options. In fact, they might have none because some of them are shy and people think that they are just snob or they have other priorities etc, but in short, we always end up being surprised by their bf who just happened to be VERY average in comparison to them. well you know what? because those average guys tried hard enough to show their interests.

I would consider myself average but certainly not ugly, and let me give you a female version of your story.

 

1. I checked this guy out at a party, really attracted to him, had some conversions during the night and then he doenst seem interested (no further contact from him) oh well, i guess i should move on.

2. I talked to this guy and gave him clear hints that we should hangout sometimes and he never came up with anything. well...i guess he just said that to be nice.

3. I met this guy, we exchanged numbers but I am really busy this week. and didnt have the time to call back. (yep this one doesnt seem that interested , I agree with you) I am probably not ready for a relationship because my schedule is just incredible busy for at least the next 5 months.

 

I CANT tell you how many times the 2 first cases have happened to me because its just basically ALL THE F*CKING TIME. but yeah, why dont guys just make things clear. if they are interested, maybe its time to show some actions?

[huskers11]

For me I know I'm attractive. I know this because of the way people treat me and the way guys as me out but I don't personally think I'm OMG hot ****. I know there is alot more to me then my looks! I actually get told alot that the guys I date I settle for looks wise. The type of man I'm attracted to are average guys. Usually of a muscular or huskier(meaning slightly overweight) built but they aren't usually thought of as the super hot guy.

 

When I am intersted in a guy, I know within seconds of talking to him. If I don't feel it right away, I know it's not going to develop. Sure it may develop into a friendship but nothing romatic. But I have a hard time saying no or telling a guy I'm not interested because I don't want to hurt their feelings. So I will still talk to them, give them my phone number, or even agree on a going on a date with them knowing that more than likely it's not going anywhere. It's not that I'm trying to string them along, I'm more just trying to be nice and it sometimes gets misread as flirting or liking them. In the situation you described in #2, that's usually because I don't know how to handle it and I don't want to hurt them. So I will stop talking to them or distance myself.

[jobaba]

... mating rituals are extremely complex transactions and women are far more selective than men. A reasonably attractive woman can get herself laid any time, any place. So to them it's all about being able to attract high-value candidates for potential long-term relationship (as opposed to a quick romp, which they know they can have any time) and they will repeatedly test their charm on men to determine how high up the attractiveness/socioeconomic/suitability ladder it will take them. It's not at all about fairness, altruism, generosity, or what the guy wishes it would be... it's about maximizing the female's reproductive success.

 

For me I know I'm attractive. I know this because of the way people treat me and the way guys as me out but I don't personally think I'm OMG hot ****. I know there is alot more to me then my looks! I actually get told alot that the guys I date I settle for looks wise. The type of man I'm attracted to are average guys. Usually of a muscular or huskier(meaning slightly overweight) built but they aren't usually thought of as the super hot guy.

 

When I am intersted in a guy, I know within seconds of talking to him. If I don't feel it right away, I know it's not going to develop. Sure it may develop into a friendship but nothing romatic.

 

To me, these two posts sum up perfectly the mind of not only attractive women but pretty much average women as well.

[bac]

It is not flirting. In her opinion, she is just friendly and polite.

[mo mo]

Thanks for all the input everyone.

 

I agree with some people here, disagree with others. I'm not going to try to debate people though because I only wanted to hear a variety of opinions. I got them and now I am satisfied :-)

[SincereOnlineGuy]

I am curious about how the mind of a young attractive woman works.

 

In my experience, the overwhelming majority of young attractive women are flaky as hell.

 

Now I'm not talking about them acting like they're the **** and untouchable by the common man. Even though that's a ****ed up way to think, it's actually kind of understandable.

 

I'm talking about the chicks who initially show interest in you and then act like the encounter never happened, or act like you're the one that's all over them and they are trying to get away from you.

 

Here are some real examples:

 

1) You notice a girl has checked you out, you get the courage to talk to her, joke around with her for a few minutes, she's into it, then you decide to keep it moving because you are both busy. Next time you see her she avoids you.

 

2) The girl sees you and gets the courage to flirt with you for a few minutes, you're a bit flattered. You get a hold of her when she's less busy and get her number. She talks to you on the phone, agrees you two should hang out, then she never responds to calls or texts again. Sees you again and acts all strange.

 

3) Girl you used to know sees you somewhere, flirts with you, gives you her number, e-mail address, work phone number, etc. Talks to you on the phone once, says she is busy and will call back, you never hear from her again

 

Just a few examples, but you get the idea. What the hell is going on here???

 

Guys, please share any ideas and/or grief about these situations.

 

 

 

As opposed to what? The idea that they once encountered YOU, and now the rest of their world should stop moving and stop socializing until you might come back around, perhaps like a comet?

 

Why cite so-called "real examples" wherein those involved probably got 'better offers' between points A and B??

 

Your outlook is purely selfish whether you can see that about yourself or not.

[mo mo]

As opposed to what? The idea that they once encountered YOU, and now the rest of their world should stop moving and stop socializing until you might come back around, perhaps like a comet?

 

Why cite so-called "real examples" wherein those involved probably got 'better offers' between points A and B??

 

Your outlook is purely selfish whether you can see that about yourself or not.

 

And this is precisely why LS can be toxic. People come here for advice and they get put down.

 

There is such a thing as constructive criticism, you know.. but I wasn't even asking for advice. Like I have said a few times in this thread, I am in a relationship and I am not looking to leave. I was just pondering this issue the other day and I wanted to hear some opinions on the issue. I didn't take anything to heart because I am not even looking for advice.

 

I realize my approach may have had something to do with the way those scenarios played out, but I'm not necessarily upset at the outcomes. I feel that avoiding people is dumb if there is no legitimate beef between them.