Nice guys

[carhill]

There's that funky 'gender norm' thing again

[oldguy]

There's that funky 'gender norm' thing again

 

:laugh:gender average, gender average! JK

[carhill]

'

!'

 

Where everyone knows your name.

 

And wasn't he the quintessential 'nice guy'?

[sleepykitten]

Well, I thought I would update, as I was revisiting LS and having a nostalgic moment. I am with the "nice guy" although as Old Guy rightly said Look for a good guy, and thats definately what he is, one of the best, intergrity, loyal, kind, strong and we have the passion too, but without all the toxicity sometimes mistaken for passion. I find myself in a healthy relationship! We've been together 8 months now we got together properly last sept and it did take me thinking i would loose him to realise that he was more than just a nice guy, but one of the best ones.

[grkBoy]

What are peoples, guys and girls, opinions of the "nice guy" date wise/relationship wise.

 

It depends on what you define as a "nice guy".

 

"Nice guy" can be just that good, down-to-Earth male who perhaps looks and carries himself well, has a career, but maybe isn't the most wild and exciting male. He might strike out with women simply because women see him as "too safe" and thus fear of boredom makes them bypass this man, or wish he would come along in 5-10 years when she's ready to settle down.

 

It can also be the guy who simply is girl-repellent. He's insecure, shy, socially inept, immature, and perhaps doesn't do well in terms of physical looks, personal fashion, hygiene, and/or physical fitness. He simply strikes out because he's not what women want, but believes that his showering of kindness on women should equate to a girlfriend.

 

 

Me personally...I think men need to stop using the term "nice guy" and stop thinking that treating a woman well will instantly make you friendzoned.

 

I've learned if a woman truly is turned off by a man being a confident gentleman, then she's not worth being with. However, if a guy is going to be some insecure wuss with a woman, then he shouldn't complain that he was passed up for being nice.

 

I think men need to stop thinking "looking good" is some punishment requirement from women. I'm sorry, but if we're all drooling over a woman's arse in nice jeans, or a killer rack, or a beautiful face and hair...then guys should not think it's "wrong" for a woman to like a well-dressed man who takes pride in his appearance and physical shape.

 

I see way too many guys dress too "comfy". Guys who don't know how to style their hair, or make a bald head work. I see guys who don't exercise or do the minimal and think a flabby body should be "good enough" for the woman who runs daily and has a hard body. I see guys who dress too plain and yet think it's shallow when a woman drools over the guy who manages to look GQ...even if he only shopped at Kohl's and Sears.

 

I've found in life that being a truly nice guy will take you far in dating. You'll repel the princesses who want a scoundrel. Women who you'll see later as the burned out bitter women who lash out because life didn't hand them a "bad boy with a heart".

 

Being a truly nice guy will make women like you...but only if you have a life, can carry a conversation, are fun, and interesting. I see too many men who watch movies, watch sports, play video games, and have nothing real to talk about. They don't do things or see things. They live bland boring lives and never take chances or explore. It doesn't mean you have to be a jet-setting playboy, but it does mean you have a life.

 

I also think a future is another thing many "nice guys" do not have, but think it's ok to go without. I'm sorry, but if you're 25 and working a retail job, little to no school, no career prospects, no plans for 10 years from now...then don't be astounded when women pass you up. Women still want to think in terms of men they will marry and settle down with. They might want children with said man, not marry and have an overgrown child to take care of.

 

There are nice guys, and then there are doormat losers who believe they're oppressed by women because they decided not to act like bitter ugly misogynists.

[fishtaco]

Usually, nice guys are bad news. Men shouldn't be nice guys, and women shouldn't date nice guys. Nice guys should stop being nice guys, for the sake of everyone.

 

This is one instance it worked out as opposed to millions where it didn't. While I'm happy for sleepykitten, it should not serve as the roadmap of how romance should happen.

 

It's like being with a junkie and use your love to turn him/her around. Has this happened before? Of course. Does it make a beautiful story? Absolutely. Should we all go out and find ourselves junkies? Hell no.

 

If it worked out, then it worked out, congratulations. Doesn't really matter if we're talking about junkies, nice guys or convicted murderers. If everyone's happy, everyone wins. But if you are still searching, why pick a path fraught with difficulties?

 

From the perspectice of a nice guy (I'm a reformed nice guy), you will run into many women that will not respect you, and will take advantage of your nice-ness. It's not a pleasant path to reach romance when there are other paths to choose from.

 

Form the perspective of a potential nice guy dater, go around the forum and you'll find many horror stories of how nice guys went bad.

 

From the perspecitve of the forum member, beating a dead horse.

 

So if all nice guys in the world could stop being nice guys this instant, all three groups I mentioned above would immediately benefit. So please, for the sake of everyone, stop being nice guys.

 

I did it, and it was the single most important change I've made that improved my dating. If I can do it, so can you. Say no to nice guys.

[Els]

What grkBoy said. A hundred - no, a thousand times over.

 

You DO need to have something going for you besides being nice. That goes for both men and women. Even worse if you're "nice", as opposed to genuinely nice.

 

Been with a genuinely nice guy for years, and want no other.

[rafallus 2.0]

That's quite possibly the most BS dating myth I've ever heard. I've tried actually being an ******* and just ended up putting everyone around me off. And in retrospect, whenever I've attracted a woman, I was a nice guy. Maybe with some busting balls here and there, but I doubt some busting balls here and there makes a person a jerk by default.

[fishtaco]

That's quite possibly the most BS dating myth I've ever heard. I've tried actually being an ******* and just ended up putting everyone around me off. And in retrospect, whenever I've attracted a woman, I was a nice guy. Maybe with some busting balls here and there, but I doubt some busting balls here and there makes a person a jerk by default.

 

Not being a nice guy doesn't automatically mean be an *******. The world is not black and white. There are all shades of grey.

 

If you are just a jerk, of course everyone would tell you to get the f out.

[rafallus 2.0]

Which goes to show that turning into an ******* is obviously not a solution, and therefore being nice was never a real problem.

 

Well, if one was a charming *******, it might work. But what would be wrong with being a charming nice guy then?

[todreaminblue]

What are peoples, guys and girls, opinions of the "nice guy" date wise/relationship wise.

 

 

A nice guy is not a wussy guy.......a wuss is soemone who cant handle anything.......to me a nice guy is calm, strong on an inner level and patient......thats a nice guy....and they are the best dates and relationship prospects.......they have so much to offer a woman...nice guys are hot..they can and do handle anything life throws at them....and they still can smile.....deb

[fishtaco]

Which goes to show that turning into an ******* is obviously not a solution, and therefore being nice was never a real problem.

 

Well, if one was a charming *******, it might work. But what would be wrong with being a charming nice guy then?

 

If being nice works so well, why did you try being an ******* then?

 

If you want to nitpick and get down to details, you are right, being nice, or jerk, means nothing. Women want men that are exciting and charming. You can be nice if you want, you can be a jerk if you want. It's irrelevant.

 

But one of the problems with being nice guys is that they think being nice is a selling point. So at the very basic level, they have to get it out of their heads that being nice actually mean anything. Then the next level, they can focus in on what really matters.

 

If you send out the message that being nice is perfectly fine, then the clueless nice guys will continue to be nice, and continue to wonder why it doesn't work. Because being nice doesn't work, it's irrelevant. You need something else as an edge. Once you have the edge, you can be whatever you want.

 

So bottom line, being nice is still ineffective.

 

And I would argue that being nice is a bad thing:

1) It does not allow you certain maneuvers beneficial to yourself. You have to give up not-so-nice strategies in favor of niceness. Not a bad thing, if that's what you're into, but it does hold you back in certain situations

2) Niceness is often mistaken for weakness. Yes, if you stand your ground, who cares. But, it does compromis your effectiveness.

 

And remember, all is fair in love and war. There is no dating police. The only one you have to answer to is your own conscience. So if you're lucky that you have a fairly agreeable conscience, then enjoy. If you have a strict conscience, well, then don't piss off your conscience.

 

So for the people that understand what this is all about, being nice is fine, but it's a personal preference, and will not gain you anything romantically. I'm sorry, but if you're nice, you'll get platonic friendship. You can't buy romance with niceness, no matter how you slice and dice it. All those women that say they like nice guys, I bet you I can find a nice guy that they like but won't date. Because it has nothing to do with nice.

 

So no one should be the nice guy. You have to be the guy with the edge. Then if you really really have to be nice, fine, go knock yourself out.

[fishtaco]

What a crock of you know what. Nice guys get married all the time. Being nice does not mean boring, spineless, lives in mom's basement, unemployed, lazy. Being nice means you are nice, that's it. sleepykitten's experience is the norm, not the exception. Wish all you want that all nice guys will stop being nice guys. It won't benefit anyone but it's not happening.

 

Really? Because boring spinless guys get married all the time too. What does that prove? We should all be boring and spinless?

[fishtaco]

Nice has nothing to do with boring and spineless. More women prefer nice but don't prefer boring and spineless.

 

You missed my point. You say nice guys get married all the time, therefore it's okay to be nice guy.

 

But boring and spinless guys get married all the time too. So I'm saying that statement that marrige proves being nice is fine, is not a convincing point. I'm not saying nice = spinless or whatever.

 

Anyway, I don't want to keep going on this verbal fencing stuff. If you want to discuss your points, answer to my previous post to rafallus, that's much more interesting. If you don't like what I say, that's fine, give your counter points.

[soccerrprp]

Usually, nice guys are bad news. Men shouldn't be nice guys, and women shouldn't date nice guys. Nice guys should stop being nice guys, for the sake of everyone.

 

This is one instance it worked out as opposed to millions where it didn't. While I'm happy for sleepykitten, it should not serve as the roadmap of how romance should happen.

 

It's like being with a junkie and use your love to turn him/her around. Has this happened before? Of course. Does it make a beautiful story? Absolutely. Should we all go out and find ourselves junkies? Hell no.

 

If it worked out, then it worked out, congratulations. Doesn't really matter if we're talking about junkies, nice guys or convicted murderers. If everyone's happy, everyone wins. But if you are still searching, why pick a path fraught with difficulties?

 

From the perspectice of a nice guy (I'm a reformed nice guy), you will run into many women that will not respect you, and will take advantage of your nice-ness. It's not a pleasant path to reach romance when there are other paths to choose from.

 

Form the perspective of a potential nice guy dater, go around the forum and you'll find many horror stories of how nice guys went bad.

 

From the perspecitve of the forum member, beating a dead horse.

 

So if all nice guys in the world could stop being nice guys this instant, all three groups I mentioned above would immediately benefit. So please, for the sake of everyone, stop being nice guys.

 

I did it, and it was the single most important change I've made that improved my dating. If I can do it, so can you. Say no to nice guys.

 

Thank goodness I've always been a "nice guy", am a "nice guy" and will ignore this silly post (imho) and continue to be a "nice guy." Don't have problems dating, finding very attractive women, I get sex, and all b/c, apparently women actually do like decent, trustworthy, sensitive guys. Whatever being a nice guy means.....

 

Hmmmm. I'm must be doing something wrong?

[BluEyeL]

What are peoples, guys and girls, opinions of the "nice guy" date wise/relationship wise.

 

Haven't met one, but I wouldn't like anything more than that. Don't care for roller coasters.

[fishtaco]

Thank goodness I've always been a "nice guy", am a "nice guy" and will ignore this silly post (imho) and continue to be a "nice guy." Don't have problems dating, finding very attractive women, I get sex, and all b/c, apparently women actually do like decent, trustworthy, sensitive guys. Whatever being a nice guy means.....

 

Hmmmm. I'm must be doing something wrong?

 

No, if it works then you are not the audience that I addressed the post to.

 

I was a nice guy, and it didn't work for me. Hence I had to change, then it worked. Suddenly instead of looking at women I wasn't able to date, I was sleeping with them. Then I started turning them down. Not all the time of course, I'm still just average; I don't have a stream of women throwing panties at me. I still have to work hard, I still get turned down, I don't have magic. But the old me would have dated any of these women that I may or may not have slept with. The new me goes... well... nope, I want someone else. Because I can.

 

If it ain't broke, why fix it. So good for you. But just because you, as a nice guy, is doing well, doesn't mean every other nice guy out there are. I wasn't until I had my revelation.

 

Again, if it works, congratulations, keep doing it. If it doesn't, well, then change yourself. The definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing but expect different results (paraphrasing this quote, I'm sure I got it wrong).

[grkBoy]

For me and my fiancee, I have been and still am a nice guy to her. I do all the nice guy stuff I normally do. I'm a gentleman, I care about her, I take care of her when she's down or sick, I bring her flowers for no reason, massage her back, carry the groceries, etc.

 

She loves me, respects me, and cherishes that I'm good to her.

 

 

Now...why do other guys who do this fail? Two reasons:

 

1) They do it for girls they're hoping to date, when they should ONLY do them for girls who are COMMITTED to them. Do all the overly nice stuff for a girlfriend, not a girl you're hoping to get a date with. Don't be a jerk, but don't give her all the milk without her buying the cow.

 

2) My fiancee knows she's out on her butt if she ever plays flaky games with me or starts to get all "he's too nice, I can't fathom sleeping with him". I know this sounds mean, but I more talk about making and keeping the impression that flaky behavior, immaturity, and games will not be tolerated.

 

She wants to make you jealous to feel like you love her? She's gone.

 

She cheats? She's gone.

 

She flirts with guys and pretends to be single? She's gone.

 

She flakes and decides she wants to be single for a while, play the field, see other guys? She's gone and she never gets another shot.

 

Now, my fiancee doesn't anywhere near act like what I described, and I didn't threaten or bully her on any of this. I more or less made it show in my convictions, easy-going nature, and showing I don't tolerate BS from anyone.

 

That's the confidence and strength women crave in a man. Be a gentleman when you're courting, be a man's man when she acts like a girl, and be a nice guy when she calls you "boyfriend"...but stay a man's man when she gets those girly flaky immature moments.

 

Every scenario is different, and I say it to death that I lucked out...but I do know if I had not met her, I'd easily "launch" any female who gets with me and decides to be a girl over being a woman.

 

Now I just enjoy making her female colleagues jealous.

[Woggle]

For me and my fiancee, I have been and still am a nice guy to her. I do all the nice guy stuff I normally do. I'm a gentleman, I care about her, I take care of her when she's down or sick, I bring her flowers for no reason, massage her back, carry the groceries, etc.

 

She loves me, respects me, and cherishes that I'm good to her.

 

 

Now...why do other guys who do this fail? Two reasons:

 

1) They do it for girls they're hoping to date, when they should ONLY do them for girls who are COMMITTED to them. Do all the overly nice stuff for a girlfriend, not a girl you're hoping to get a date with. Don't be a jerk, but don't give her all the milk without her buying the cow.

 

2) My fiancee knows she's out on her butt if she ever plays flaky games with me or starts to get all "he's too nice, I can't fathom sleeping with him". I know this sounds mean, but I more talk about making and keeping the impression that flaky behavior, immaturity, and games will not be tolerated.

 

She wants to make you jealous to feel like you love her? She's gone.

 

She cheats? She's gone.

 

She flirts with guys and pretends to be single? She's gone.

 

She flakes and decides she wants to be single for a while, play the field, see other guys? She's gone and she never gets another shot.

 

Now, my fiancee doesn't anywhere near act like what I described, and I didn't threaten or bully her on any of this. I more or less made it show in my convictions, easy-going nature, and showing I don't tolerate BS from anyone.

 

That's the confidence and strength women crave in a man. Be a gentleman when you're courting, be a man's man when she acts like a girl, and be a nice guy when she calls you "boyfriend"...but stay a man's man when she gets those girly flaky immature moments.

 

Every scenario is different, and I say it to death that I lucked out...but I do know if I had not met her, I'd easily "launch" any female who gets with me and decides to be a girl over being a woman.

 

Now I just enjoy making her female colleagues jealous.

 

I could have said this word for word. I seriously doubt my wife would act like that because that is just not her but in the unlikely chance that she does she is out of here. As long as she treats me right I will do the same.

[fishtaco]

I know exactly what you are doing. Misdefining nice guy to mean nice with undesirable other traits. Nice guy means nice and that's it. Why do some *******s succeed with women? It's because they have other desirable traits that have nothing to do with being assholish.

 

Well, you are misdefiniing nice guy with positive traits.

 

The only trait I lumped in with nice guy is that they also bank on nice as a selling point. Which you are right, is my mistake. I should not have assumed all nice guys think that way. But many do.

 

Then I'm taking it a step farther by saying you don't need to be nice, because if a woman falls for you, she will put up with your crap. But evetually she may lose her tolernace, but then we're talking about relationships, that's an entirely different topic.

[SJC2008]

This topic always turns into a huge debate...

 

The term nice guy is wrong and "nice guys" who don't succeed in dating are led to belevie that you need to be an uber deuche to succeed with women when this is not the case.

 

Most people are everyday janes and joes and are nice people. A doormat will never say no to his woman, let her make all the decisions and she is his universe. There are plenty of doormats who are in relationship with control freaks who have his nuts in her hand bag. A nice guy respects his boundaries and enforces them. He isn't afraid to say no to his woman, he tells her if she's behaving irrationally. Being nice isn't a turnoff, being a doormat is.

 

The reason so many jerks succeed with women is because they aren't afraid of them, they're not pushovers and they lead. Confidence isn't the be all end all in attraction but it plays a very large role. Now when the women realizes he's a jerk she'll leave him for a confident man who respects her or she'll stay with him because she's weak and doesn't think she can do better.

[Revolver]

The reason genuine nice guys are so confused is that in the act of saving face, girls tell guys that they are nice while rejecting them. The rejected guy takes her words at face value. In other words, girls tell them that they are nice and the guys believe them.The solution is to tell the truth as to why you are rejecting him in the first place.

 

Telling him that he is nice while at the same time rejecting him leads to him thinking that being nice is the problem. His next step is to try to fix that problem by becoming 'not nice'. This is how many jerks are born

[ScreamingTrees]

Best advice is to take your time with this guy. It's not like he is putting a ring on your finger today. If he really is a good guy he will understand that you need a relaxed pace. If he doesn't understand that and he pushes your boundaries on what you are ready for then he isn't a good guy.

 

What?

 

I say he's still a good guy if he doesn't understand that, I don't see how anyone would be able to comprehend someone who sort of wants to be in a relationship with them, but isn't sure of whether or not they can be attracted to them due to the way that they treat them. If a guy even gives a girl a chance, knowing full well what's going on in her head space..

 

He's got to be the real spineless "nice guy" if you ask me. If someone has had a set long-term behavioral pattern and that drastically and abruptly changes, it's only natural for people to question their motives to some degree in general.

 

And personally, I'm not the guy who'll willingly give someone like that a chance, if they were the total opposite of who I was and am.

[charlietheginger]

Usually women date or marry a arsehole.....

 

Relize being with a arsehole isnt all its cracked up to be

Then later in life want a nice guy.

 

Same with alot of men. They go for looks first few times then

Later in life go for not looks but personality

[BluEyeL]

The reason genuine nice guys are so confused is that in the act of saving face, girls tell guys that they are nice while rejecting them. The rejected guy takes her words at face value. In other words, girls tell them that they are nice and the guys believe them.The solution is to tell the truth as to why you are rejecting him in the first place.

 

Telling him that he is nice while at the same time rejecting him leads to him thinking that being nice is the problem. His next step is to try to fix that problem by becoming 'not nice'. This is how many jerks are born

 

Somehow, I don't think that's the mechanism. If someone is genuinely nice, I don't think they'll become jerks and viceversa. But I agree that it would be better if people were telling each other the truth. I for one, I'd love to know why exactly someone rejected me, honestly.