Sex before relationship or relationship before sex?

[malibustacydoll]

I'm very interested in this man right now who is a bit older than me and not from the US. We are very close friends but things seem to be moving in the more than friends direction. I am interested in having a relationship with him. I am the type of person who wants to be serious about someone before I become intimate with them. However, from what we have talked about he puts a high value on sexuality. He thinks two people should be together sexually and determine if they click before they become serious. I usually require the relationship part first before I am ready to sleep with someone.

 

I really like him and with the chemistry I feel-- I think we will click really well in bed. However, I am debating how to maneuver this. I don't want this to be a battle of wills-- where in the end with both want the same thing-- good sex and a relationship-- but neither of us is willing to budge.

 

Thoughts?

[Jane2011]

I say just compromise, and let him know that that's your approach.

 

If he wants to have sex right away to see if that works for you guys, but you generally prefer to date someone for two months and get to know him before indulging in sex, tell him that, and say that you'd be willing to push that up to one month because of his preference to test the sexual chemistry fairly early on. If you tell him you normally wait two months, it's possible he'd think it's generous (or a sacrifice) that you're willing to wait only a month instead. Of course, I realize that dating a month or two doesn't assure you are in a relationship, but it (what I suggest) is at least a form of compromise.

 

I am more like him. I prefer to have sex pretty quickly. I don't want to do it right off the bat. But if I like a guy, I'm usually in bed with him by date four. It worked out perfectly for me with the last guy I was with. He didn't think I was "fast," he was just as interested in me after, he shared my belief that having sex relatively early doesn't mean we've made the relationship all about sex. We agreed we wanted to get to know each other as people and develop a real relationship, regardless of having had sex quickly. We kept seeing each other enthusiastically. We ended for reasons having nothing to do with how early sex occurred.

Edited February 2, 2012 by Jane2011

[xpaperxcutx]

I've always had sex before the relationship. I find I have a common streak of finding great Rs when I'm not looking for it in the first place.

 

If it's your belief to be in a relationship before sex, then more power to you. It's a strong conviction to stick to, and it also helps you weed out the men who are only looking for sex.

 

The only thing you have to worry about is that not everyone will think like you but you mustn't think that it's a bad thing. In fact, most men value a women who places such emphasis on their sexuality and will respect her for it.

[Jane2011]

At the same time, I think it's a bad sign that he is impatient about sex. Even if he's rationalizing it with "I want to know as soon as possible if we click sexually," it's still impatience. Most guys want to have sex quickly. But most grown-up, nice men understand that it's emotionally safer for most women to wait a bit, and they have the stance that...as much as they want it, they want the woman to feel comfortable. And hence, they wait.

 

It's nice to hear a man say that he wants you to feel comfortable and doesn't want to do anything you don't feel ready for.

 

So...yeah. He seems like he might be kind of a jerk.

[malibustacydoll]

At the same time, I think it's a bad sign that he is impatient about sex. Even if he's rationalizing it with "I want to know as soon as possible if we click sexually," it's still impatience. Most guys want to have sex quickly. But most grown-up, nice men understand that it's emotionally safer for most women to wait a bit, and they have the stance that...as much as they want it, they want the woman to feel comfortable. And hence, they wait.

 

It's nice to hear a man say that he wants you to feel comfortable and doesn't want to do anything you don't feel ready for.

 

So...yeah. He seems like he might be kind of a jerk.

 

No. He does want me to be comfortable. Times where we got close to sex I've stopped it and he hasn't pushed it. He's very much a gentleman in that regard.

 

Also, we have been friends for several months and seem to really be dating without the benefits at this point. We do a lot of hanging out together minus the affection or sex.

 

He knows I want sex-- and I'm sure he does too. I guess our issue now is that he's not a "label" person but a relationship guy still. I just want that label before I'm ready for sex-- although I guess in the end it doesn't matter.. hmm

[Emilia]

I think there are definitely two types of people just like you said in the title of this thread. I am like him as well, I want sex before I decide whether I'm serious with someone.

 

This is why I can tell you that no matter how serious you think you get with him, if he isn't feeling it in bed, he will no pursue you long term. I'm the same. I don't care how I click with someone outside the bedroom if we can't make it inside it. It's rare that it doesn't work out sexually but it happens.

 

It is possible that the way the two of you view relationships isn't compatible. Whatever the girls are saying in this thread however about his pushing for sex, he is clearly not lying to you to get you into bed.

 

You are saying you have been hanging out for months. How much more time do you need? Most people (men or women) would not be this patient. are you sure you fancy him or do you just want the label?

[malibustacydoll]

I think there are definitely two types of people just like you said in the title of this thread. I am like him as well, I want sex before I decide whether I'm serious with someone.

 

This is why I can tell you that no matter how serious you think you get with him, if he isn't feeling it in bed, he will no pursue you long term. I'm the same. I don't care how I click with someone outside the bedroom if we can't make it inside it. It's rare that it doesn't work out sexually but it happens.

 

It is possible that the way the two of you view relationships isn't compatible. Whatever the girls are saying in this thread however about his pushing for sex, he is clearly not lying to you to get you into bed.

 

You are saying you have been hanging out for months. How much more time do you need? Most people (men or women) would not be this patient. are you sure you fancy him or do you just want the label?

 

Well-- time for me to throw a wrench into this particular situation. Yes-- I have known him for several months now and we have gotten to know eachother pretty well. However, when we first met I was in a long-term relationship. I have been out of this for a month or so now-- but just now being able to move out (from having lived with the ex). I don't want him to think he's a rebound and want to try to do things the right way.

 

I get what you're saying though-- sex is very important. I don't see how we wouldn't click in that regard but I get it. I also think though with all the emotions we have now-- the label almost does not matter at all. If we put the label on and then have sex-- he would have to either lead me on or end it-- but even without the label with the way things are the same would have to occur. So, perhaps in the end it doesn't matter? At minimum I think I deserve the right to require sexual exclusivity while we're testing the waters-- agree or disagree? (I'm not saying he has to claim I am his gf or anything but I want to know I am the only one he is sleeping with while he is with me.)

[blueskyday]

My thought is that his wanting sex doesn't trump your need for safety before having sex, even if we are just talking emotional safety.

 

My rule is no sex until I'm in an exclusive, monogamous, committed relationship. I don't care if the relationship only lasts a few weeks past sex if we aren't compatible in that area, but I do require that safety enclosure to be in place before I open my heart and body to a man.

 

Sometimes I simply say that I only sleep with guys who are my boyfriends.

 

I think it's the least a guy who cares about you should do. He should make you feel special, safe, and that he considers you to be a possible long term partner. Of course, you need more time together to figure out if you two can make a long haul go of it. Still, you need to know you are with someone who is in it for more than a night....or that sex is some kind of "trial" for a relationship.

 

Really, I've never been attracted to a guy, had amazing kisses and wanted him, only later to find out we aren't compatible in bed. Of course we will be! And are! Every time.

 

The only guys I've regretted going to bed with were the ones who were giving me language like your guy.

 

He has every right to "test the waters" first. And you have every right to say no to that arrangement.

 

Maybe tell him you want exclusivity first before sex. Then you will be able to relax and let go sexually with him. Tell him you are open to having the relationship last only as long as you both are happy and want to be in it, and that you understand sexual compatibility will play a part in how long you two will be together.

 

Hope that helps. Just don't give up what you want for what he wants. I think a lot of guys (not all!) try to get sex for as cheap as possible.

 

If I had a dime for every time a guy said, "But I need to sleep with you before committing myself to you," I'd have a million dollars.

 

I always answer, "But I need a commitment of exclusivity before sleeping with you. I only sleep with a boyfriend. Do you want that or should I let you go find a ONS?" No attitude on my part. Freedom on both sides.

 

Commitment comes in stages. We're not talking marriage here. We're talking step one: exclusivity. Not a huge risk.

 

I don't care if our relationship lasts two weeks, as long as for that two weeks we focus on each other and give it a go.

Edited February 2, 2012 by blueskyday

[veggirl]

Wait. He is a relationship guy, but not a "label" guy?

 

RED FLAG!!

 

What does that even mean?! does he want to be your boyfriend or not?

 

I personally don't require a relationship before sex, but when this guy is baiting you and fooling you with cr*p like the above, you def shouldn't be sleeping with him.

 

I agree with the poster that said just tell him you don't have sex with anyone who is not your boyfriend.

[musemaj11]

If he pays for it, he deserves to get it.

[silvermercy]

If he pays for it, he deserves to get it.

I don't even!

 

Um... ok, simply just ignore the quoted post. As no man or woman will ever get a serious partner with this attitude.

[Feelin Frisky]

Maybe he considers what you two have already been doing to be relationship "feeling out" and being an older gent, he probably doesn't think in terms of living forever and making nice (date after date) before finding out if you're sexual enough for him. How much dating is enough? I can ID with him, but I would never just say let's have sex before there was already some time of feeling like it makes sense because we know we like each other at least and we're not getting it with someone else.

[malibustacydoll]

Maybe he considers what you two have already been doing to be relationship "feeling out" and being an older gent, he probably doesn't think in terms of living forever and making nice (date after date) before finding out if you're sexual enough for him. How much dating is enough? I can ID with him, but I would never just say let's have sex before there was already some time of feeling like it makes sense because we know we like each other at least and we're not getting it with someone else.

 

I do understand what you're saying. It does feel like we're dating at this point. I know in the long run the label means nothing-- because people are going to act how they want to with or without it. However, I've always had it that way first and it has been a comfort. Him and I are really good friends and are forced due to other circumstances to see each other on a regular basis. I am scared to cross this line and ruin a great friendship if there isn't potential for a relationship. I think we're at the point now where we could step back and go back into being "just friends". It's hard because he doesn't wear his emotions on his sleeve like I do. I just don't know how to handle this situation in the best manner or even if there is one...

[musemaj11]

I don't even!

 

Um... ok, simply just ignore the quoted post. As no man or woman will ever get a serious partner with this attitude.

There is nothing wrong with what I said for its the truth.

 

Men spend any money on a woman they are romantically interested in in the hope for a chance to have sexual access toward her in the future. This is an evolutionary fact. Its something that nearly all male species instinctively do.

 

Expecting a man throwing his hard earned money on you as simply an earnest charity donation is either naive or selfish.

Edited February 3, 2012 by musemaj11

[Mme. Chaucer]

If you go out of your comfort zone and "compromise" on this, how are you going to feel if the sex is NOT mind - blowing or whatever the outcome is supposed to be that signals it's time for an exclusive relationship?

 

Worse, what if YOU think it is, but he does not? Or if he feels like "experimenting" with you sexually for some time before he figures out whether he is feeling it enough?

 

I am fine with people having sex early, late, or whenever - as long as nobody's getting pushed.

 

As far as I can tell, the guy wants to have sex, and he is saying what he can to make it happen. It sounds like pressure.

 

Your status of being JUST extricated from a LTR yourself also makes it seem reasonable for you to take it a little slow.

 

If he is really interested in long term potential with you, he won't mind waiting a while. It's not much, in the big picture of a relationship that goes on for years.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Originally Posted by musemaj11

If he pays for it, he deserves to get it.

 

You must be on the wrong thread. Nowhere on this one did the OP identify herself as a prostitute and the man she likes as her potential customer.

[silvermercy]

There is nothing wrong with what I said for its the truth.

 

Men spend any money on a woman they are romantically interested in in the hope for a chance to have sexual access toward her in the future. This is an evolutionary fact. Its something that nearly all male species instinctively do.

 

Expecting a man throwing his hard earned money on you as simply an earnest charity donation is either naive or selfish.

It is NOT the truth. But perhaps it could be explained by the fact that where you live most women work as prostitutes.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Originally Posted by musemaj11

 

Men spend any money on a woman they are romantically interested in in the hope for a chance to have sexual access toward her in the future. This is an evolutionary fact. Its something that nearly all male species instinctively do.

 

Expecting a man throwing his hard earned money on you as simply an earnest charity donation is either naive or selfish.

 

I'm sorry, son, but I don't think money is included in any theories of evolution.

 

Let's pretend, though, that what you said makes sense.

 

Do you believe that it's an "evolutionary fact" that all women go out with men in the hopes of gaining "access" to whatever that man might have? Is that what women are all hoping for if they have sex with a man?

 

I think you do believe that.

 

So, if all the women hope this, does this automatically mean that it's the men's duty to give the greedy women all their worldly goods, or else they are naive or selfish?

 

Naw.

 

Just because some sorry loser believes that taking a woman out to get a burger entitles him to bootie does not make it true - regardless of his "hopes."

 

Any more than me having sex with the same guy entitles me to access to all his worldly goods.

 

Have you ever been on a date with a live woman? Not a prostitute or an escort, but a regular one?

[carhill]

Thoughts?

 

You already have a relationship, apparently a quite close one by my definition of what a 'close friend' is, just not sexual.

 

For myself, an emotionally bonded relationship always precedes sex. Sex is the expression of the bond.

 

For others, apparently a gamut, so much so that I'd opine my behaviors and perspective are decidedly outlier, if reading these forums are any indication, so YMMV.

 

So, to clarify, what is the difference between 'serious' and 'close friend' for you? As an example, I tell all of my 'close friends' I love them and I'm there for them anytime and would take a bullet for them. What's your definition? In my view, the only thing which separates those 'friendships' from romance is, presuming cross-gender heterosexual desire, sex and its attendant intimacy. Retrospectively, in some ways, I was/am more 'intimate' with some of my long-time close friends than with my exW, just not sexual.

 

You decide. You're in charge of you.

[Stupid Girl]

I've always had the relationship first. I agree with the person that said, if you like/love someone enough, sex will pretty much be good no matter what. Except maybe in certain situations where it would have been bad anyway, like first time, etc.

 

I'm sorry, son, but I don't think money is included in any theories of evolution.

This is what I was thinking as well when I read that guy's post, lol. So silly.

[PlumPrincess]

If you go out of your comfort zone and "compromise" on this, how are you going to feel if the sex is NOT mind - blowing or whatever the outcome is supposed to be that signals it's time for an exclusive relationship?

 

Worse, what if YOU think it is, but he does not? Or if he feels like "experimenting" with you sexually for some time before he figures out whether he is feeling it enough?

 

I am fine with people having sex early, late, or whenever - as long as nobody's getting pushed.

 

As far as I can tell, the guy wants to have sex, and he is saying what he can to make it happen. It sounds like pressure.

 

Your status of being JUST extricated from a LTR yourself also makes it seem reasonable for you to take it a little slow.

 

If he is really interested in long term potential with you, he won't mind waiting a while. It's not much, in the big picture of a relationship that goes on for years.

I'm always glad when people like you post to cut through the crap.

[musemaj11]

It is NOT the truth. But perhaps it could be explained by the fact that where you live most women work as prostitutes.

The next time a guy asks you out, tell him you are never going to have sex with him ever. Trust me you are never going to hear from him again, let alone having him putting in any financial investment.

 

Originally Posted by musemaj11

 

I'm sorry, son, but I don't think money is included in any theories of evolution.

Either you are just plain obtuse or you know exactly what I meant but simply chose to be pretentious about it.

 

In the case that its the former, males in the animal kingdom have been trading resources for sexual access since the beginning of time.

 

Let's pretend, though, that what you said makes sense.

 

Do you believe that it's an "evolutionary fact" that all women go out with men in the hopes of gaining "access" to whatever that man might have? Is that what women are all hoping for if they have sex with a man?

 

I think you do believe that.

Yes, I do believe that.

 

So, if all the women hope this, does this automatically mean that it's the men's duty to give the greedy women all their worldly goods, or else they are naive or selfish?

Not all their worldly goodies. No pussy is worth that much. But I do believe that a woman is entitled to get something in return for the sex she gives a man should she demand it as much as a man is entitled to get something return for the money he invests in a woman should he demand it.

[malibustacydoll]

 

Not all their worldly goodies. No pussy is worth that much. But I do believe that a woman is entitled to get something in return for the sex she gives a man should she demand it as much as a man is entitled to get something return for the money he invests in a woman should he demand it.

 

Why is a woman entitled because she gives sex? Sex is a shared experience-- mutual pleasure.

 

Also, in my specific situation-- I am not expecting anything from this man. I'm a very independent woman and am used to paying my way. I fight him on this to pay half the time we're out in the first place. I'm not looking for a man to take care of me or a father figure. I'm looking for an equal and a partner.

[malibustacydoll]

If you go out of your comfort zone and "compromise" on this, how are you going to feel if the sex is NOT mind - blowing or whatever the outcome is supposed to be that signals it's time for an exclusive relationship?

 

Worse, what if YOU think it is, but he does not? Or if he feels like "experimenting" with you sexually for some time before he figures out whether he is feeling it enough?

 

I am fine with people having sex early, late, or whenever - as long as nobody's getting pushed.

 

As far as I can tell, the guy wants to have sex, and he is saying what he can to make it happen. It sounds like pressure.

 

Your status of being JUST extricated from a LTR yourself also makes it seem reasonable for you to take it a little slow.

 

If he is really interested in long term potential with you, he won't mind waiting a while. It's not much, in the big picture of a relationship that goes on for years.

 

You're right-- and that's what I'm worried about in terms of your first few questions. I think the sex will be great but sure there is the chance it wont be or maybe he wont think it'd be.

 

Although-- he really does not put much pressure on it. I know he wants to have it-- however he wants me comfortable and I am sure would wait until I'm ready. The minute I say "stop" he stops. He is very much a gentleman on things and will take it slow if I want-- will allow the build up.

 

I guess another concern I have is that we have a pretty large age gap between us. As I have mentioned, I just got out of a long term relationship-- with a guy I was with since my teenage years. While I dated prior to him, I actually never slept with a guy until him. Therefore, I have some apprehension with someone new now-- especially someone who is vastly more experienced than me. Thoughts on how to handle this? For the record, I'm sure this new guy has no idea that I've only been with one man.

[Mme. Chaucer]

Don't try to defend or explain yourself to that poor misguided creature. I think he needs to be deprogrammed; he appears to have been raised in a brothel and has not been socialized with women who aren't prostitutes. He is warped, and we must view him with compassion.

 

It is kind of touching how he tries to participate in discussions about how men and women interact together in the real world. Perhaps some day he will join it.