Male psychology

[aj22one]

We both have fundementally different beliefs on this issue. While I would say that it's not right to mock or make fun of someone for their thoughts. I do think people should be held accountable for their thoughts. The most overly simplistic example of this is child molesters. Where the mind goes, the person follows. Your mind is not so disassociated from the rest of your body that it's okay to have no control over your mind while maintaining a firm control only on the outside. And that's been my point from the beginning. People have control over their mental focus. More then they know. They can't control every thought that pops into their head but they can control what they do with that thought. Do they indulge in it, or not. And I think what is causing a lot of our social demise is the expectation that we keep hidden lives in our minds but express a different self to the world. When we should be improving ourselves all around and maintaing control over not just our actions, but our thoughts as well. No one is going to ever be perfect in this regard, but that doesn't mean you say "oh well!".

 

This is way too "Minority Report"-like for me. People will just choose not to share their thoughts with their partners for fear of being harshly judged. IMO, that's way worse than having the "harmful thoughts" in the first place.

[carhill]

As I grew up during the Playboy mags at the liquor store and sneaking into the XXX theater to see some porn era, I'd say that the overriding change between then and now is variety. The internet has shrunk the world and provided a world of variety in one little appliance. It has, in general, also made it much easier for people to isolate themselves in many aspects of life.

 

Perhaps one irony of this change is, relevant to my data point, readily available variety has decreased zeal and overriding desire. Perhaps this is akin to how women are more selective about sexual partners since getting sex is easier for most, as compared to men. When one is surrounded by potential, one's psychology can see it as ever-present and not 'gotta get some now or forever lose it'.

 

Relevant to the topic, I noted this dynamic while M, when more MW's were coming on to me. Such attention was easier to come by, so I didn't really feel any impulse or need to engage it. Interesting.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

Having gone through puberty and adolescence pre-internet porn, I'm going to guess no. We didn't need porn to be obsessed with sex and masturbation.

 

Once again, I did not say we needed porn to be have sex and masturbate. I never implied that people where not having a lot of sex and masturbating before the internet. I said the advent of technology changed the way people have related to sex and masturbation.

 

This is way too "Minority Report"-like for me. People will just choose not to share their thoughts with their partners for fear of being harshly judged. IMO, that's way worse than having the "harmful thoughts" in the first place.

 

I'm aware of this. This is why it's better to be with a partner that is personally aware of their thoughts and makes and effort in this regard just like we expect our partners to make efforts in any other avenue of our lives.

 

I rather not be with a man that thought about banging kids. Maybe other people don't care as much. I rather not be with a man that was obessed with celebrities. Maybe other people don't care. What you think matters. And it's so strange to me how hard people are fighting this. If we recogonize that the physical and emotional aspects of a relationship are important why are so many afraid to recogonize that the mental is just as much a part of the picture as the rest?

[Disenchantedly Yours]

carhill

As I grew up during the Playboy mags at the liquor store and sneaking into the XXX theater to see some porn era, I'd say that the overriding change between then and now is variety. The internet has shrunk the world and provided a world of variety in one little appliance. It has, in general, also made it much easier for people to isolate themselves in many aspects of life.

 

Completely agree with this. And it's similar to what I've been saying.

 

Perhaps one irony of this change is, relevant to my data point, readily available variety has decreased zeal and overriding desire. Perhaps this is akin to how women are more selective about sexual partners since getting sex is easier for most, as compared to men. When one is surrounded by potential, one's psychology can see it as ever-present and not 'gotta get some now or forever lose it'.

 

However, the "potential" is simply a computer/tv screen. It's an illusion that is being traded for real world experience. How many men today do you think simply stay at home and masturbate instead of going out side and meeting women? Alot of men talk about being male virgins. Although I do think it's harder for men to get automatic sex, it's also harder for women to get automatic relationships. And while porn will fulfill his short term pleasure, perhaps it's also stilting his growth with real life women. Just my own thoughts. What do you think Carhill?

[joystickd]

Completely agree with this. And it's similar to what I've been saying.

 

 

 

However, the "potential" is simply a computer/tv screen. It's an illusion that is being traded for real world experience. How many men today do you think simply stay at home and masturbate instead of going out side and meeting women? Alot of men talk about being male virgins. Although I do think it's harder for men to get automatic sex, it's also harder for women to get automatic relationships. And while porn will fulfill his short term pleasure, perhaps it's also stilting his growth with real life women. Just my own thoughts. What do you think Carhill?

Its harder because no one can meet a middleground. Its not the internet.

[joystickd]

Once again, I did not say we needed porn to be have sex and masturbate. I never implied that people where not having a lot of sex and masturbating before the internet. I said the advent of technology changed the way people have related to sex and masturbation.

 

 

 

I'm aware of this. This is why it's better to be with a partner that is personally aware of their thoughts and makes and effort in this regard just like we expect our partners to make efforts in any other avenue of our lives.

 

I rather not be with a man that thought about banging kids. Maybe other people don't care as much. I rather not be with a man that was obessed with celebrities. Maybe other people don't care. What you think matters. And it's so strange to me how hard people are fighting this. If we recogonize that the physical and emotional aspects of a relationship are important why are so many afraid to recogonize that the mental is just as much a part of the picture as the rest?

Here is a possibility get a male blowup doll. People are individuals so they are going to think if you have an issue with that then the problem is with YOU. People should be judged on what their actions are to you and not what their thoughts are because when you get into that you are just asking for trouble

[Lonely Ronin]

I rather not be with a man that thought about banging kids. Maybe other people don't care as much. I rather not be with a man that was obessed with celebrities. Maybe other people don't care. What you think matters.

 

What is wrong with you, why do you always use worse case scenarios to justify your point of view? This is exactly why you get grief on this forum all the time.

[aj22one]

I'm aware of this. This is why it's better to be with a partner that is personally aware of their thoughts and makes and effort in this regard just like we expect our partners to make efforts in any other avenue of our lives.

 

Eh, people are who they are. If someone likes to think about having sex with other people (whether they act on it or not) they won't suddenly stop just because their partner wants them to. They might feel more guilty about it afterwards, but I don't think they could stop it.

 

I rather not be with a man that thought about banging kids. Maybe other people don't care as much. I rather not be with a man that was obessed with celebrities. Maybe other people don't care. What you think matters. And it's so strange to me how hard people are fighting this. If we recogonize that the physical and emotional aspects of a relationship are important why are so many afraid to recogonize that the mental is just as much a part of the picture as the rest?

 

That's kind of an extreme example that would likely come to light in their actions.

 

But to the overall point though, I think that largely this depends on how secure a person is in their relationship. If you think that a partner's thoughts about other women diminishes you or will make them more likely to leave you or betray you, then sure thoughts are very important. But if you welcome competition, if you're ok with them finding others attractive because that doesn't diminish you then thoughts become so much less important.

 

There are women I've met or dated in my life that in many ways were my "dream girl", but to be honest I don't want dreams (or thoughts or whatever) I've got someone great in real life whose attractiveness is more than just about looks. Watch the end of Inception where Leonardo has to come to terms with his (subconscious) wife, that kinda sums it up perfectly.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

aj22one

Eh, people are who they are. If someone likes to think about having sex with other people (whether they act on it or not) they won't suddenly stop just because their partner wants them to. They might feel more guilty about it afterwards, but I don't think they could stop it.

 

I agree that people don't suddenly stop doing things just because their partner wants them too.

 

 

 

That's kind of an extreme example that would likely come to light in their actions.

 

I agree it's an extreme example but it was the only one I could think of that would be clear.

 

I do question though if it would really come into light based on their actions. Aren't we talking about what people think, not do? Even if someone is just thinking something, no one wants to be with a person thinking about having sex with children. Which is why I think thoughts matter to who we are. No one thought completely defines us though of course.

 

There are women I've met or dated in my life that in many ways were my "dream girl", but to be honest I don't want dreams (or thoughts or whatever) I've got someone great in real life whose attractiveness is more than just about looks. Watch the end of Inception where Leonardo has to come to terms with his (subconscious) wife, that kinda sums it up perfectly.

 

Exactly! Real life is so much better. I certainly had ideas about men before I actually started dating them and having relationships with them. These real relationships are so much more gratifying and important then anything I *thought* I may have wanted. They don't compare to fantasy. So when I am in a relationship, I choose to live in the reality of it. I think however, in our current culture, people are participating heavily in the fantasy and not taking enough stock in the reality. Which is why so many people feel they need so many fantasies of other people.

[aj22one]

I do question though if it would really come into light based on their actions. Aren't we talking about what people think, not do? Even if someone is just thinking something, no one wants to be with a person thinking about having sex with children. Which is why I think thoughts matter to who we are. No one thought completely defines us though of course.

 

Some who was attracted to pre-pubescent children would have a very difficult time having an active and healthy relationship and sex life with someone who was an adult. Sometimes they can hoodwink a spouse, but only if that spouse is willfully ignorant of what's really going on.

 

 

Exactly! Real life is so much better. I certainly had ideas about men before I actually started dating them and having relationships with them. These real relationships are so much more gratifying and important then anything I *thought* I may have wanted. They don't compare to fantasy. So when I am in a relationship, I choose to live in the reality of it. I think however, in our current culture, people are participating heavily in the fantasy and not taking enough stock in the reality. Which is why so many people feel they need so many fantasies of other people.

 

But I think the fantasizing isn't always a bad thing. It can be healthy, like "hey honey, I think we should try role playing tonight", or it can be bad like "hey honey, I was bored with you so I had an affair". The first example is perfectly legitimate and can be a good tool for people so spice things up. The latter is generally viewed as unacceptable.

[xxoo]

Once again, I did not say we needed porn to be have sex and masturbate. I never implied that people where not having a lot of sex and masturbating before the internet. I said the advent of technology changed the way people have related to sex and masturbation.

 

No, you said that people are spending more time masturbating, and asked if we disagreed, yes or no. This assertion was related to the idea of unnecessary masturbation, as if we wouldn't need to masturbate as much if not for internet porn. You said people would be doing other things with that time 15 years ago, rather than masturbating to internet porn.

 

I said I do not agree, based on the masturbation habits of my pre-internet porn peer group. Instead of masturbating to internet porn, we spent that time masturbating to something else.

Edited February 3, 2012 by xxoo

[Quiet Storm]

The most overly simplistic example of this is child molesters. Where the mind goes, the person follows. Your mind is not so disassociated from the rest of your body that it's okay to have no control over your mind while maintaining a firm control only on the outside. And that's been my point from the beginning. People have control over their mental focus. More then they know. They can't control every thought that pops into their head but they can control what they do with that thought. Do they indulge in it, or not.

 

I disagree. There are men with pedophilia that do not act on their thoughts for their entire lives. They are attracted to children and fantasize about them, but never molest one child. There are many that can control themselves just fine by keeping distance and setting boundaries. It is the ones that CAN'T control their urges that cause the hurt, pain and ruined lives. Not the ones that only "think" about it. There are many that never admit their secret desire for children to anyone.

 

People do have control over their mental focus, but why should we attempt to control our thoughts unless they are detrimental to us? We use cognitive behavioral therapy on people with OCD because their thoughts are overwhelming to them and making them miserable. The average guy is not going to be negatively affected by fantasizing about the girl at the gym. In fact, he will see it as a harmless and exciting thought, until he is berated and shamed for it.

 

DY, you say that you are not the thought police, but why do you suggest re-directing thoughts and not indulging in them? Do you expect your standards for "excess" apply to everyone? It seems that you must think these thoughts are bad, or you would not think they need to be re-directed. Don't you believe that each individual person has the right to decide their own standards, boundaries and values? I believe that. I think the healthy way is to keep your boundaries strong, and abide by your own values & standards. Do you think it may be healthier to not concern yourself with the thoughts and behavior of others, but instead choose to not associate with those whose values are not compatible with your own?

 

We are a nation of excess, but the amount of [insert vice here] that each of us decides to indulge in is our own personal choice. Any negative effects that we feel from our choice is our consequence. Hard drugs are illegal, but we still have junkies because people are going to do what they want to do. The junkies family can preach all they want, but eventually they realize they are wasting their breath. The only think that will change their behavior is feeling the consequences. As for male fantasies, if a man is honest about them, but feels attacked or shamed by his girlfriend, what behavior do you think he will change? Do you think he will stop fantasizing? Or do you think he will stop being honest about it?

 

If your man admitted that he occasionally fantasized about his friends girlfriend, you would have every right to feel hurt, angry and jealous. But say this man genuinely loves you and wants to be with you. Say he reassures you that these thoughts are fleeting and meaningless. Say he is a perfect boyfriend in every other way. How would you react? Shouldn't you trust his ability to decipher the meaning of his own thoughts? Shouldn't you have faith in his feelings about you and the relationship? Does the fact that he has those thoughts make him untrustworthy?

 

I understand that you feel that indulging in these thoughts is detrimental to relationships. And that's fine for YOU. Set your boundaries, stick to your standards and find a guy that doesn't indulge.

 

I think we all understand that you believe that these thoughts have negative impacts. And that may be true for some people. But it's not true everyone.

 

We will all run into things in life that we believe are wrong. We all wish that there were things we could change about the world. Sometimes, the healthy thing to do is to just accept things and say "Oh well". Not because your feelings aren't valid, but because that inner conflict will bring you down. And its your job to nurture and care for yourself. Putting tons of energy and effort into things that can't be changed will eventually wear you down and make you bitter. You may be passionate, bright eyed and bushytailed about things now, and post and blog to your heart's content. But I suspect as years go by, and you become battle weary and jaded, you will eventually accept that most men are unlikely to change for the "better", as you say. But you know what? Men really aren't that bad as they are, fantasies, porn and all. They do not need our guidance or input to be good men. They may not be exactly as we would prefer, but they are our men. Take 'em or leave 'em. Then maybe you'll finally say "Oh well".

[FONT=Calibri][sIZE=3] [/sIZE][/FONT]

[xxoo]

Exactly! Real life is so much better. I certainly had ideas about men before I actually started dating them and having relationships with them. These real relationships are so much more gratifying and important then anything I *thought* I may have wanted. They don't compare to fantasy. So when I am in a relationship, I choose to live in the reality of it. I think however, in our current culture, people are participating heavily in the fantasy and not taking enough stock in the reality. Which is why so many people feel they need so many fantasies of other people.

 

There are more possibilities than heavy fantasy or reality only.

 

I don't have experience with living heavily in fantasy. I live 98% in reality, and enjoy it very much.

 

The 2% I spend in fantasy is like a vacation--nice to visit, but there is no place like home But we still enjoy a change of scenery now and then!

 

So I know that a person can be heavily invested in reality, and still feel good about enjoying some fantasy.

[Mme. Chaucer]

If you find sexual fantasies in general analogous to pedophilia, then there is really no point in talking about this with you. Plus, you backpedal whenever you are confronted with some of your ideas; I have not twisted anything that you've said, I'm sure.

 

Personal anecdote:

 

I am middle aged. When I was a little girl, I was (no kidding) traumatized by my father's Playboy magazines. He bought one at the liquor store every month, and they lived on the back of his toilet, face down. Nobody ever acknowledged that they were there, but you bet that me and all my siblings went over every issue with a fine toothed comb.

 

When I was very young, I was just fascinated. When I entered puberty, though, I became intimidated by the centerfolds, and by the idea that they represented what men really liked. My mom didn't look like that … I was doubtful that I was going to, either.

 

Why was my dad married to my mom when he really liked women who looked like the centerfolds? It made me feel uneasy.

 

When I got older and started dating, I was threatened by women who I perceived as more attractive than I was. I believe that my young self also would have felt that it was a breach of faithfulness or loyalty of some kind for my boyfriend to fantasize about different girls. I was insecure in general, and I made it pretty hard for my boyfriends to not be "in trouble" with me. I probably would have liked the idea of having control over what they thought about, when it came to other women.

 

But … it's a no-win game. You CANNOT hold people accountable for what their thoughts are. Try all you like; what you will do is promote LESS sharing, more distance, and LYING. Most of us need our privacy and our little secret lives inside of our heads - some more than others.

 

Maturity has pretty much erased my insecurities in that department, and I am very thankful. I have a lot of other things to concern myself with than what my husband is thinking about in the privacy of his own mind.

[ThaWholigan]

However, the "potential" is simply a computer/tv screen. It's an illusion that is being traded for real world experience. How many men today do you think simply stay at home and masturbate instead of going out side and meeting women? Alot of men talk about being male virgins. Although I do think it's harder for men to get automatic sex, it's also harder for women to get automatic relationships. And while porn will fulfill his short term pleasure, perhaps it's also stilting his growth with real life women. Just my own thoughts.

 

There is a large degree of truth to this that I cannot ignore. Truth is brilliant

 

When I was 16, I came into possession of my first porn CD (it was called Big Bubble Butt Brazilian Orgy 2 ). I had seen a porn before, but didn't really care much for it. I had always liked girls, but given that I was an oddball as a kid, I was often teased and never responded well, ending up with very poor self-esteem.

 

I became hooked on it for a few years. I had amassed gigabytes of it, and DVDs, I even had Traci Lords pornos before I knew that she was the same age as I was in those pornos (was quite shocking that story). I imagine that if I had gotten over my fear of talking to women then, I would have fared better, and would not be a virgin, despite being autistic. Eventually, I got rid of all of my porn and severely cut my use back, as I was going to uni, and I had young female cousins coming to live with me and wanted to set more of an example.

 

It's daunting talking women sometimes when you don't know what you're doing. I think you can forgive a naive young man for turning to porn every now and then to rub one out .

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------

 

More in line with this thread, I want to say that Male sexuality is very misunderstood, by both men and women. I feel that it was not meant to be dwindling in front of a screen while watching porn, which is what we have been reduced to. I have watched porn, still do occasionally, and I have no guilt about this at all. However, by the same token, I have no care for porn and would much rather prefer to be out there in real time finding a good woman to have fun with and to give her joy in equal measure.

 

Some men do have a wandering eye. It's difficult to have under complete control, and I think that women do get unnecessarily paranoid about that, but at the same time I understand perfectly their point of view about that.

 

As for fantasies, well, everybody has fantasies. Some are dark, deprived and dirty, and others aren't.

[zengirl]

As a Buddhist, I do believe thoughts are a part of our view just as much as our actions. It just makes sense to me anyway. Our thoughts are a part of, and a product of, who we are, and we should absolutely (IMO) be held accountable for our thoughts, though that means something else to me than it does to DY.

 

To me, it means our thoughts are directed by our overall worldview, integrated into everything we do, and help to create our reality day-to-day as well as our karma. To me, it means that getting your thoughts directed in a positive way will produce better results and keep you healthy, as a person, and that someone with unhealthy thoughts (determined solely by how they effect that person; i.e. do they create anxiety? hinder relationships? diminish empathy, self esteem, graciousness, kindness, etc?) will also have unhealthy actions and an unhappy life. That doesn't mean that every thought that passes correlates with a literal action; in a way, thoughts are metaphors. We rarely think about things precisely as we do them, for instance. They are abstractions.

 

I think the idea that any thought can be unhealthy, without producing unhealthy results, is odd. Are sexual fantasies unhealthy? Well, how are they impacting the person? What do they lead the person to do? How does the person react to them?

 

I think the child molestor idea is extreme. I think it's interesting that you picked one of the few ideas that are fairly universally (at least in modern societies) taboo, DY. Picking a taboo misses the whole point; you're trying to compare something that is very much not a taboo (porn, masturbation, fantasies) to something that is almost universally, or at least in our society and any society remotely like ours, a taboo. It just doesn't work, and it makes it a ridiculous strawman. Because taboos operate differently by their very nature. Because of the way socialization works.

 

At any rate, I think it's fine to judge a person by their thoughts, in terms of your interest/compatibility/faith in them, though you can never really know their thoughts, just the outward results or what they say of them, but I don't think it's okay to label thoughts as right or wrong. Everyone has their own karma and viewpoint.

 

ETA: *Sorry to bring up karma at all, but it's hard not to in expressing this particular point. But you can substitute it for other things, if you like. I'm not trying to express something that is ONLY a Buddhist view; my view of it is just colored by my beliefs, as things are.

Edited February 3, 2012 by zengirl

[Saxis]

I understand what you mean, but I do think it's an uncontrollable instinct to be sexually aroused by the act of sex rather than by the people performing the act. This is also another I had wanted to get across but I didn't know the right words to convey it.

 

I agree with this. I can get aroused by the act, but it certainly has nothing to do with the people.

 

I'm not sure if this is worth saying or not.

 

I've been the kind of guy that fantasizes from time to time during a relationship. Since I don't act out on it... I don't consider it a big deal.

 

However, in my current relationship... it's been going for almost 2 years... and I've had a big fat ZERO regarding fantasies. I only think about my fiance. I can barely even remember porn.

 

I think the main factor in this is my sex life. She want's more sex from me than I can provide. At the 2 year mark I think we will be averaging 3 times a day... I'm almost scared when the weekends come. I plan dates and activities to make sure I'm not having my clothes ripped off.

 

End result is that I don't think of anyone else.... ever! I'm not sure if this is because I'm physically never horny... or that emotionally I feel desired.

 

I've also experienced this! I've noticed that when a relationship is nearing it's end and I'm just not feeling as emotionally connected to that person, my mind does wander a bit more. But for as long as I feel emotionally secure in the relationship, I'm purely focused on my partner.

 

 

 

Also, speaking of masturbation... Based on what I just mentioned above about being in an emotionally secure relationship, I will rarely ever feel the need to. In the rare occasion where we have to go more than a few days without having sex, sometimes I will when I get aroused thinking about her. And it usually takes a lot of concentration on HER to finish. If I start trying to fantasize about another woman, I will either lose it or not be able to finish myself...

 

I've also been known to clearly miss "opportunities" when other women have tried to flirt with me while I was in a committed relationship. At least from what my friends described, I was just oblivious to it and they asked why I wasn't flirting back. I would notice after they pointed it out, and even feel guilty about it when it was clearly out of my control. This happened on some of our out-of-town weekend bowling tournaments with my married friends, where their primary rule was "What happens at bowling, stays at bowling!". No one would ever find out... So no, I don't believe every man will cheat if given the opportunity without getting caught. Heck, I didn't even see that there WAS an opportunity!

[ThaWholigan]

As a Buddhist, I do believe thoughts are a part of our view just as much as our actions. It just makes sense to me anyway. Our thoughts are a part of, and a product of, who we are, and we should absolutely (IMO) be held accountable for our thoughts, though that means something else to me than it does to DY.

 

To me, it means our thoughts are directed by our overall worldview, integrated into everything we do, and help to create our reality day-to-day as well as our karma. To me, it means that getting your thoughts directed in a positive way will produce better results and keep you healthy, as a person, and that someone with unhealthy thoughts (determined solely by how they effect that person; i.e. do they create anxiety? hinder relationships? diminish empathy, self esteem, graciousness, kindness, etc?) will also have unhealthy actions and an unhappy life. That doesn't mean that every thought that passes correlates with a literal action; in a way, thoughts are metaphors. We rarely think about things precisely as we do them, for instance. They are abstractions.

 

The bolded is magnificent, and exactly the way I feel/think about certain things in life

[Disenchantedly Yours]

aj22one

Some who was attracted to pre-pubescent children would have a very difficult time having an active and healthy relationship and sex life with someone who was an adult. Sometimes they can hoodwink a spouse, but only if that spouse is willfully ignorant of what's really going on.

 

Clearly that's not true by the number of people in recent media with careers and spouces that have been found to had wrong relationships with children.

 

 

But I think the fantasizing isn't always a bad thing. It can be healthy, like "hey honey, I think we should try role playing tonight", or it can be bad like "hey honey, I was bored with you so I had an affair". The first example is perfectly legitimate and can be a good tool for people so spice things up. The latter is generally viewed as unacceptable.

 

I also agree and have said that not all fantasizing is "bad". In the situation of roleplaying, the couple is still focusing on one another. Unless one partner is picturing being with a completely different person then their partner and jsut asking their partner to dress up as a prop for what they really wish they had.

[xxoo]

I also agree and have said that not all fantasizing is "bad". In the situation of roleplaying, the couple is still focusing on one another. Unless one partner is picturing being with a completely different person then their partner and jsut asking their partner to dress up as a prop for what they really wish they had.

 

No, it doesn't mean that is what they really wish they had. Just what they wish to imagine in the moment.

 

Have you ever engaged in this kind of play with a very close, intimate partner? I have. It is fun and exciting, and spices things up. It doesn't mean either of us would prefer to be in bed with any other people.

[musemaj11]

Why was my dad married to my mom when he really liked women who looked like the centerfolds?

Because he had neither the game nor the money.

[Disenchantedly Yours]

No, you said that people are spending more time masturbating, and asked if we disagreed, yes or no. This assertion was related to the idea of unnecessary masturbation, as if we wouldn't need to masturbate as much if not for internet porn. You said people would be doing other things with that time 15 years ago, rather than masturbating to internet porn.

 

I said I do not agree, based on the masturbation habits of my pre-internet porn peer group. Instead of masturbating to internet porn, we spent that time masturbating to something else.

 

My response was to your previous comment XXOO when you said:

 

Having gone through puberty and adolescence pre-internet porn, I'm going to guess no. We didn't need porn to be obsessed with sex and masturbation.

 

so I responded with:

 

Once again, I did not say we needed porn to be have sex and masturbate. I never implied that people where not having a lot of sex and masturbating before the internet. I said the advent of technology changed the way people have related to sex and masturbation.

 

Now yes, I DID say people are spending more time masturbating. I however didn't say, as you earlier implied, that people needed porn to masturbate or have sex.

 

And yes, I think in today's tech world, people WOULD be doing other things then sitting around and masturbating. But because it's "there", more people are probably choosing to masturbate when they don't really even need to. Also because we live in a hyper sexual culture as it is.

 

 

I said I do not agree, based on the masturbation habits of my pre-internet porn peer group. Instead of masturbating to internet porn, we spent that time masturbating to something else

 

That's all you really needed to say instead of insisting I said things I didn't. What things did you spend your time masturbating to?

[Mme. Chaucer]

As a Buddhist, I do believe thoughts are a part of our view just as much as our actions. It just makes sense to me anyway. Our thoughts are a part of, and a product of, who we are, and we should absolutely (IMO) be held accountable for our thoughts, though that means something else to me than it does to DY.

 

 

I think I understand exactly.

 

I NEED to be accountable to MYSELF for my interior life. I've posted here before that I am a recovering addict. I have had trouble with depression too. There are lots of cliches that are bandied about in the "recovery community" and one of them is "stinking thinking." If I let myself go down that road, I am headed to a place I don't want to go.

 

But, I would never presume to hold anyone else accountable to me for their fantasies, or thoughts, or for MY standards regarding what they should or shouldn't be thinking about to rule. And it's not okay for anyone to presume to do that to me, either.

 

I've said it several times on this thread, and I will say it one more time (last time, I promise): if somebody's interior life renders them unavailable or otherwise lacking in ANY of their important relationships, then it's time for them to take a good look at that, and to do something about it. Obsessions and addictions, including to porn, would certainly fall into that category in my opinion.

[xxoo]

My response was to your previous comment XXOO when you said:

 

Having gone through puberty and adolescence pre-internet porn, I'm going to guess no. We didn't need porn to be obsessed with sex and masturbation.

 

so I responded with:

 

Once again, I did not say we needed porn to be have sex and masturbate. I never implied that people where not having a lot of sex and masturbating before the internet. I said the advent of technology changed the way people have related to sex and masturbation.

 

Now yes, I DID say people are spending more time masturbating. I however didn't say, as you earlier implied, that people needed porn to masturbate or have sex.

 

I can assure you that I didn't mean to imply that you said people need porn to masturbate. I simply meant to communicate that a wild amt of masturbation was done before internet porn, and, no I don't agree that there is more now, at least in that age group.

 

And yes, I think in today's tech world, people WOULD be doing other things then sitting around and masturbating. But because it's "there", more people are probably choosing to masturbate when they don't really even need to. Also because we live in a hyper sexual culture as it is.

 

Again, I just disagree. Men especially in my peer group talk about having jerked off 5+ times a day as teens, before internet porn. Do you think it is more now? I was at a similar frequency, and I was a girl!

 

That's all you really needed to say instead of insisting I said things I didn't. What things did you spend your time masturbating to?

 

Earliest memory: Little House on the Prairie. I'm not kidding. This was pre-puberty.

 

A bit older: fantasies about boys in school and church, fantasies about dads I babysat for, fantasies about teachers, church mentors, Don Johnson on Miami Vice, novels with sex scenes....you name it. I was pretty sheltered, and I had to use my imagination a lot.

[Mme. Chaucer]

 

 

Earliest memory: Little House on the Prairie. I'm not kidding. This was pre-puberty.

 

 

I've always known that Little House on the Prairie needed to be banned!