Author Ross MwcFan Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 A lot of women like being sexy, they don't like the word object attached to it. What's so hard to recognize? They like to think you're thinking "what a sexy, beautiful, girl" or something like that... not "what a sexy piece of meat I'll eat her up and on to the next." You see the level of respect for something you think of as a sexy person and sexy object varry greatly. People deserve high levels of respect, objects deserve less respect... Now you understand. Now go get some life experiences already you're older then me and soon enough you'll be older then most. (you'll be 40 at the rate your going) Isn't that still objectifying them, I mean you're still not thinking of them as a person, you're just thinking about how hot/sexy they are.
Author Ross MwcFan Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 If they are not attracted to YOU, then it doesn't matter how you see them. If you see them as a sexual object, you are a creep. If you see all of their inner qualities, they are just not attracted to you in that way. If they are attracted to you, then you can talk your way out of one polar extreme to a moderate ground. Similar to what Ditzchic said. They'll give you a chance to explain yourself. So, in a sense of helping you decide which way you should approach and cater your attraction towards women (and I'm surmising that's why you posted it), your thread is useless. If you would like real life examples, I'd be happy to provide... No, that isn't why I asked. I was just curious about what people thought about it all. But give me some real life examples anyway, thanks.
Author Ross MwcFan Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 Ok guys, an object is like a couch or a pair of scissors. It's not conscious. You use it for what you want and don't give it a second thought afterwards. Where being implies consciousness, life, sentience. Which implies a two way interaction between the man and woman, rather just one way between the man and the object. Women do want to be seen as sexy (perhaps not all the time), but they don't want to be seen as non-conscience, non-sentient. I don't think any guys see women as non-conscience, non-sentient, when they're thinking about how hot they look and that they would like to have sex with them. I know I never have anyway. Same goes for when I watch porn.
Author Ross MwcFan Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 Do you men really not want to be seen as walking wallets? I wouldn't care, but I would care if I was in a relationship with a woman who I thought found me sexually attractive, and like me as a person, but yet she just saw me as a walking wallet. And that isn't what I'm talking about, I'm not talking about a woman being in a relationship with a guy, and the guy 'only' seeing her as a sex object. I can understand a woman not liking that. But how can you expect a guy who doesn't know you as a person, to think about who you are as a person? Surely before a guy get's to know you, it's better for him to not think of you as a person and find you sexually attractive, than to not think of you as a person and not find you sexually attractive?
Author Ross MwcFan Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 I'll just chime in with the majority of the posters... When women use the phrase "I don't want to be viewed as a sex object," they mean they don't want to be viewed and valued ONLY for their sexuality. They want a man to appreciate their other non-physical assets, such as personality, intelligence, etc. I love being viewed as a sexual being by my boyfriend. I love it when we're out at the bar and it's getting late and he starts looking at me like a hungry wolf and I know exactly what he's thinking. Being desired by your partner is a huge turn-on, and I doubt there are many women out there who don't want their partner to desire them sexually. But like I say, how can you expect a guy to appreciate these things before he get's to know you? If he waits until he get's to know you before seeing you in a sexual way physically, he'll probably end up in the friendzone, because he never would've flirted/acted sexual with you, he would have always acted as though he's just a friend instead.
irc333 Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 There was this one woman I know that was my FB friend....she had quite an ample supply of photos of herself (almost too many to consider herself vain). She had quite a few pictures of herself on vacation off a real nice island or the coast in central America. Some were posed pictures of herself in a bikini, smiling. I "liked" a few of those photos, and even made a "I'm enjoying the scenery" comment. With a "wink" at the end of it. She sent me apersonal message saying even though she liked my compliments, she'd also like to be thought of than just a pretty face. I was like "well, excuuuuuuuuse me!!" I thought she was probably enjoying the attention actually, and even called her on it. She had no answer for me. Hypocrite. I hear so many times, from guys, that when you're with a woman you find attractive, you're supposed to look at them in a sexual way, ie thinking how much you would like to **** her, imagining her naked, thinking about how her breasts look great. I know that I've always naturally done this anyway. Supposedly this will show in your body language, and you will be more likely to act as though you find her sexually attractive, you will give of the right 'vibes'. So obviously this will be important if you want to attract a woman/hook up with a woman. So, ladies, would you really want guys to not look at you in that way, to not look at you as a sexual creature, and for them to not behave like they're sexual creatures? Would you really rather them not think in that way about you, and wonder about your personality instead, like a neutered nice guy? Would that really turn you on/attract you to him?
EnigmaticClarity Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) There is some mental blockage that makes it difficult for me. It's something that I am working on. It's self-esteem and defensiveness--you know if you escalate conversation and interaction to a sexual or romantic level that you're opening yourself up for rejection, so instead, you keep things at a platonic social level and keep hoping she'll be the first to show some signs or make a move. If you don't escalate fairly early on in a relationship, you get dropped or friend-zoned fairly quickly. The PUA artist stuff is full of this kind of talk, I'm still extremely surprised it didn't resonate with you. It doesn't matter how innocent the girl is, they understand completely what's happening when you start escalating in any way--no matter how smoothly or awkwardly you do it, they get it, almost immediately. And very soon after that, you'll either know exactly or at least begin to get a feel for whether or not they're into it. It's natural--only fear makes it seems as if it isn't. Fight the fear. Edited February 2, 2012 by EnigmaticClarity
EnigmaticClarity Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 There was this one woman I know that was my FB friend....she had quite an ample supply of photos of herself (almost too many to consider herself vain). She had quite a few pictures of herself on vacation off a real nice island or the coast in central America. Some were posed pictures of herself in a bikini, smiling. I "liked" a few of those photos, and even made a "I'm enjoying the scenery" comment. With a "wink" at the end of it. She sent me apersonal message saying even though she liked my compliments, she'd also like to be thought of than just a pretty face. I was like "well, excuuuuuuuuse me!!" I thought she was probably enjoying the attention actually, and even called her on it. She had no answer for me. Hypocrite. How can someone have too many pictures to consider themselves vain? She may or not actually be vain, but at minimum, it tells me she's quite confident about her appearance and probably gets complimented a lot, so her reaction seems expected to me. It'd be like approaching an actress by saying "I loved you in <fill in movie name here>"--something she clearly would have heard a zillion times before and doesn't distinguish you.
maybealone Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 But how can you expect a guy who doesn't know you as a person, to think about who you are as a person? I think it may be more about feeling like they want to know you as a person. Like the difference between, "She's hot! I would love to nail her, get up and go home, and never even tell her my name!" and, "She's hot! I'd like to get to know her and screw her!"
Dust Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 As in, she'll get turned off because the guy will never make a move. Yes make move. January is over how many girls did you touch? Make some moves Somedude! Exactly. I wasn't. There is some mental blockage that makes it difficult for me. It's something that I am working on. Yeah your mental problems stem from the life unlived. Go out there for a change. It's Friday tomorrow try to get some plans going that involve people. Isn't that still objectifying them, I mean you're still not thinking of them as a person, you're just thinking about how hot/sexy they are. I wouldn't worry about the details. Even women who enjoy being used like a some false pretenses to it... Enjoy romancing her a little. Then also enjoy her because she'll enjoy being enjoyed. If she's with a guy who's all worried and acting like everything is stressful she just wants to get away. Be the rock... not mr. "Do women like..." "are you having fun?" Its not about if they are having fun... YOu need to have fun!
Author Ross MwcFan Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 Yes make move. January is over how many girls did you touch? Make some moves Somedude! Yeah your mental problems stem from the life unlived. Go out there for a change. It's Friday tomorrow try to get some plans going that involve people. I wouldn't worry about the details. Even women who enjoy being used like a some false pretenses to it... Enjoy romancing her a little. Then also enjoy her because she'll enjoy being enjoyed. If she's with a guy who's all worried and acting like everything is stressful she just wants to get away. Be the rock... not mr. "Do women like..." "are you having fun?" Its not about if they are having fun... YOu need to have fun! Yeah you definatley have a point. It's something I'll try to keep in mind.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 I'm kind of surprised on the amount of men that just make the automatic link of female sexuality having to equal "object". As sexual people, women enjoy being seen as sexy. But when you personify a woman in the spot light of "sex object", that has nothing to do with her or the pleasure you can have "with/give" her. It's about *you* and the pleasure you can "take" from her. Men that see women as "sexual beings", are men that are looking for a mutual experience between two people. Men that see women as "sex objects", just because a woman likes to be sexy, are only looking at women through her ability to provide him pleasure. No better then a toy. No different then watching porn. The fact that so many men on here have a hard time seperating the two proves to me some of the things I have always feared about the way men still view female sexuality.
HeavenOrHell Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 I think most people want to be seen as attractive/sexually attractive/desirable. I think both men and women 'size' each other up when they first meet, you can't help noticing/judging if you find someone attractive or not. I sure as hell would have been disappointed if my partner hadn't found me sexually attractive the first time we met (and obviously all the other times we met), this doesn't mean I want to be viewed as a sex object by anyone, 'sex object' implies that that's all the woman is good for, but being sexually attractive is different. To me, being sexually attractive means I find the whole person (as it were) attractive/desirable, ie their presence, their personality, how they come across, to me it's not just about sex or physical appearance. My partner's a nice guy but he's also very sexual. You can be both things at once So when first meeting a guy you find attractive, you would rather he doesn't look at you in that way/think you're hot, and behave more like a nutered nice guy? No, I wouldn't want a girl who I'm with to only be interested in my wallet, but I sure as hell would want her to find me sexually attractive.
Emilia Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 I'm kind of surprised on the amount of men that just make the automatic link of female sexuality having to equal "object". As sexual people, women enjoy being seen as sexy. But when you personify a woman in the spot light of "sex object", that has nothing to do with her or the pleasure you can have "with/give" her. It's about *you* and the pleasure you can "take" from her. Men that see women as "sexual beings", are men that are looking for a mutual experience between two people. Men that see women as "sex objects", just because a woman likes to be sexy, are only looking at women through her ability to provide him pleasure. No better then a toy. No different then watching porn. The fact that so many men on here have a hard time seperating the two proves to me some of the things I have always feared about the way men still view female sexuality. You are spot on with this however my issue is that you seem to generalise the negative aspect of it too much in my opinion. I know men who fetishise women, ie they only have sex with women who wear stockings or dress up as specific fantasies. They never talk about women as persons but always as sexual objects they have sex with (although I know most of them prefer to give pleasure as well as to receive). From what I have seen, these men are in the minority. Most of the men I know however may view women in magazines or in porn as objects (they rarely talk about that but I assume they do) but are capable of having long lasting relationships where they view the women in their lives as partners and frequently refer to the quirks in their personalities for example, speak of them with affection, etc. This is evidence in my eyes that most men view women as human beings, not just sex objects.
joystickd Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 It's about *you* and the pleasure you can "take" from her. Since you say men that see women as sexual objects are rapist. You mention taking it from her. Think about it
HeavenOrHell Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 I get the impression from some of the women who put loads of pics of themselves on fb etc, often showing lots of cleavage, that they're not confident but are actually insecure and wanting attention and flattery. It gets quite annoying at times being confronted with the same pair of boobs over and over, I find it quite sad that the only way they can get attention is by flashing their tits. How can someone have too many pictures to consider themselves vain? She may or not actually be vain, but at minimum, it tells me she's quite confident about her appearance and probably gets complimented a lot, so her reaction seems expected to me. It'd be like approaching an actress by saying "I loved you in <fill in movie name here>"--something she clearly would have heard a zillion times before and doesn't distinguish you.
Author Ross MwcFan Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 I'm kind of surprised on the amount of men that just make the automatic link of female sexuality having to equal "object". As sexual people, women enjoy being seen as sexy. But when you personify a woman in the spot light of "sex object", that has nothing to do with her or the pleasure you can have "with/give" her. It's about *you* and the pleasure you can "take" from her. Men that see women as "sexual beings", are men that are looking for a mutual experience between two people. Men that see women as "sex objects", just because a woman likes to be sexy, are only looking at women through her ability to provide him pleasure. No better then a toy. No different then watching porn. The fact that so many men on here have a hard time seperating the two proves to me some of the things I have always feared about the way men still view female sexuality. That's how I look at women, I don't just think about the pleasure that I'd like to get from them, or take as you put it, I also like to think about giving them sexual pleasure too.
maybealone Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Since you say men that see women as sexual objects are rapist. You mention taking it from her. Think about it I think there are plenty of men who are not rapists who are perfectly capable of having sex without giving a crap about whether or not the woman got any pleasure at all from it. There is a reason behind the old "Wham, bam, thank you ma'am" saying.
Author Ross MwcFan Posted February 2, 2012 Author Posted February 2, 2012 It's hard to imagine finding sex that fun if the woman wasn't enjoying it, or how a guy can not care about pleasuring the woman either. Having sex with a woman who is clearly enjoying it and is really turned on herself, sounds like it would be way way more enjoyable.
Taramere Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Men that see women as "sex objects", just because a woman likes to be sexy, are only looking at women through her ability to provide him pleasure. No better then a toy. No different then watching porn. The fact that so many men on here have a hard time seperating the two proves to me some of the things I have always feared about the way men still view female sexuality. I'm sure most of the women here have seen men playing three very different roles. One that you overhear them playing with other men (in which derogatory sexual comments about women will often abound), one that they play with women (respectful suitor) and that third when you're in their company, a friend of theirs is also present and making boorish comments and the man is uncomfortably trying to reach some compromise between the two roles he usually plays. It leaves you wondering who the real person is. My preference is for men who don't have to experience that discomfort, because there's not a huge amount of difference between the way they are in female company and they way they are in male company. So they might take some stick from women for coming across as sexist, and they might take some mockery from men for being manginas...but at least they are true to themselves. My chief concern about a man who views women only as sex objects would be that he's probably quite a dull person who doesn't have a strong enough sense of self to recognise and respect other people's selfhood. I wouldn't really care how somebody like that viewed me, provided they didn't attack or molest me.
Emilia Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 My preference is for men who don't have to experience that discomfort, because there's not a huge amount of difference between the way they are in female company and they way they are in male company. So they might take some stick from women for coming across as sexist, and they might take some mockery from men for being manginas...but at least they are true to themselves. My chief concern about a man who views women only as sex objects would be that he's probably quite a dull person who doesn't have a strong enough sense of self to recognise and respect other people's selfhood. I wouldn't really care how somebody like that viewed me, provided they didn't attack or molest me. Yes to both points.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Emilia You are spot on with this however my issue is that you seem to generalise the negative aspect of it too much in my opinion. Possibly Emilia. I might focus too much on the bad parts. I know men who fetishise women, ie they only have sex with women who wear stockings or dress up as specific fantasies. They never talk about women as persons but always as sexual objects they have sex with (although I know most of them prefer to give pleasure as well as to receive). From what I have seen, these men are in the minority. But you don't just have to fetishize an object, you can also fetishize any woman's body parts. I've heard of some guys that like to put their penis under a woman's arm and rub it in her armpit. Even breasts are fetishized in our culture. Legs. Butts.....So I would disagree that it's the minority. And I am not saying an attraction to legs, butts or breasts are bad at all. But current culture seems to fetishize alot about a woman's body. Most of the men I know however may view women in magazines or in porn as objects (they rarely talk about that but I assume they do) but are capable of having long lasting relationships where they view the women in their lives as partners and frequently refer to the quirks in their personalities for example, speak of them with affection, etc. This is evidence in my eyes that most men view women as human beings, not just sex objects. I agree that men can/do view women in magazines or videos as objects and can have lasting relationships with women they love. I however just don't think that this is okay. (I think you seem to think it is.) I don't think it's fair for men to seperate women into groups that serve a purpose to him. Certain girls for his pleasure, his real life partner to fulfill other needs. I also don't think it's fair for a woman to be happy with his love for her personality traits when he is, in conjecture with his real life relationship, still leaning on porn to satisfy himself. It's asking her to be happy with something he clearly isn't.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 I'm sure most of the women here have seen men playing three very different roles. One that you overhear them playing with other men (in which derogatory sexual comments about women will often abound), one that they play with women (respectful suitor) and that third when you're in their company, a friend of theirs is also present and making boorish comments and the man is uncomfortably trying to reach some compromise between the two roles he usually plays. It leaves you wondering who the real person is. My preference is for men who don't have to experience that discomfort, because there's not a huge amount of difference between the way they are in female company and they way they are in male company. So they might take some stick from women for coming across as sexist, and they might take some mockery from men for being manginas...but at least they are true to themselves. My chief concern about a man who views women only as sex objects would be that he's probably quite a dull person who doesn't have a strong enough sense of self to recognise and respect other people's selfhood. I wouldn't really care how somebody like that viewed me, provided they didn't attack or molest me. As always Taremere, I have immense respect for your posts and this one proves no different. Thanks for the advice. You always seem to put things nicely into perspective.
joystickd Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 I don't think it's fair for men to seperate women into groups that serve a purpose to him. Certain girls for his pleasure, his real life partner to fulfill other needs. I also don't think it's fair for a woman to be happy with his love for her personality traits when he is, in conjecture with his real life relationship, still leaning on porn to satisfy himself. It's asking her to be happy with something he clearly isn't. That is kind of contradictory. Just consider the women that keep men that are interested in them as friends as an ego boost or men they are attracted to. There are men that don't think that is fair.
joystickd Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Possibly Emilia. I might focus too much on the bad parts. No might you do focus on the bad parts
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