jobaba Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 I'm going to quote this recent poster... "...and I've never had problem dating outside of my race. I only had a problem dating and understanding women when I was younger and inexperienced. Also I'm not interested in dating within my race either, maybe because I feel like I'm too westernized to fit in with the Asian community and the clash of differences is too much. " So guys ... for those who had troubles with women in a previous life and now feel like they have the toolbox and skills to get what they want ... What exactly did you start understanding about women that changed your success with them? I've seen numerous guys post statements to a similar effect. I'm interested to hear the responses both in a constructive manner for myself and for crude entertainment value. I have my own answer of course which I won't torture you with until others have gone.
Philosoraptor Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 That each person is different and you can't use a mass judgement on anyone. If you take the time to get to know someone, without expectations or prior stereotypes, you can truly get to know them as a human and therefore develop the correct tools to connect with them.
Els Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 That each person is different and you can't use a mass judgement on anyone. If you take the time to get to know someone, without expectations or prior stereotypes, you can truly get to know them as a human and therefore develop the correct tools to connect with them. Precisely. There is no one blanket rule to 'understanding all men/women' - to believe that you have 'got it' is setting yourself up for eventual failure, because you won't be open to learning from and understanding the person you are with if you believe that one particular set of preconceived notions applies to everyone. I would be very skeptical of the LTR success or potential of a man who claimed this. Granted, though, if a guy just wants to date around and not get into an LTR with any one woman, there are certainly a set of rules that assist in charming a large majority of women initially.
somedude81 Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 I don't think you guys are getting jobaba's point. When a guy clearly does not understand women, he simply doesn't date; because nobody would date him. Then when he starts to see how women work, what they want etc, he starts dating.
Imajerk17 Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Good thread! My biggest understanding: Women crave to be led and protected by men just as much as they crave to be understood and respected as well. It's on us to make things happen, to take responsibility to move things forward. It's an easy thing to lose sight of in today's society. Many of us guys were taught growing up to be VERY careful making a move and offending a woman. So we never learned to take charge around women. Also, women's lib and the modern self-help culture ("take charge of your own life!" "anything a man can do a woman can do as well") doesn't really acknowledge that women do respond to a guy's leadership--women won't admit this about themselves because it goes against society's message.
Discjockey80 Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 I'm going to quote this recent poster... "...and I've never had problem dating outside of my race. I only had a problem dating and understanding women when I was younger and inexperienced. Also I'm not interested in dating within my race either, maybe because I feel like I'm too westernized to fit in with the Asian community and the clash of differences is too much. " So guys ... for those who had troubles with women in a previous life and now feel like they have the toolbox and skills to get what they want ... What exactly did you start understanding about women that changed your success with them? I've seen numerous guys post statements to a similar effect. I'm interested to hear the responses both in a constructive manner for myself and for crude entertainment value. I have my own answer of course which I won't torture you with until others have gone. It was when I realized that alot of the things in my nature that I felt or wanted to do as a man to/toward/with or 'for' a woman but always held myself back from doing out of 'fear' were what they wanted all along. Utlimately a woman wants masculinity (whatever form that takes for each woman) Many guys fall short in character and deed when it comes to that nowdays. A mans character and how he manifests that character are critical to a womans sexual and emotional response to him. There's more to that but thats it in a nutshell. Changed things for me for good.
thatone Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 (edited) Good thread! My biggest understanding: Women crave to be led and protected by men just as much as they crave to be understood and respected as well. It's on us to make things happen, to take responsibility to move things forward. It's an easy thing to lose sight of in today's society. Many of us guys were taught growing up to be VERY careful making a move and offending a woman. So we never learned to take charge around women. Also, women's lib and the modern self-help culture ("take charge of your own life!" "anything a man can do a woman can do as well") doesn't really acknowledge that women do respond to a guy's leadership--women won't admit this about themselves because it goes against society's message. yeah, that's it precisely. i played the nice guy for years when i was younger and got nowhere. i, like so many other men, grew up with a single mother for the most part and only after i realized the fact that even the BS your own mother gives you straight from oprah and dr. phil is still BS straight from oprah and dr. phil did my results improve. and imajerk, they will admit it, to one man at a time, while simultaneously screaming their disdain for it to every other man and their girl friends. which is lesson #2, whatever women tell you about women in general can be safely sent to file #13. they'll tell you what sounds good to them in theory, but more often than not it's a theory they don't practice. so ignore that stuff, be yourself, be assertive and aggressive, and you will have better results. simple as that. Edited February 1, 2012 by thatone
SteveC80 Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Good thread! My biggest understanding: Women crave to be led and protected by men just as much as they crave to be understood and respected as well. It's on us to make things happen, to take responsibility to move things forward. It's an easy thing to lose sight of in today's society. Many of us guys were taught growing up to be VERY careful making a move and offending a woman. So we never learned to take charge around women. Also, women's lib and the modern self-help culture ("take charge of your own life!" "anything a man can do a woman can do as well") doesn't really acknowledge that women do respond to a guy's leadership--women won't admit this about themselves because it goes against society's message. I agree its very true,when i was young i thought women wanted to be equal in that they make equal decisions etc but its not the case Something as small as asking a women what she wants to eat can deep down turn a women off in a relationship,women want to be lead and it sounds weird in a way but want to told what to do and when th do it in a relationship it makes them feel protected
Els Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 ...Yes, many women (not all) do respond positively to leadership, but the way you guys are looking at 'leadership' is completely off. Leadership isn't about making all the decisions and telling people what to do. Leadership is about taking care of them, taking responsibility when **** happens, knowing how to handle yourself in difficult situations and providing a stable, grounded lead to rely on. My guy doesn't show masculinity and leadership by telling me to make him a damn sandwich or insisting on eating at such and such a place. That's immaturity. He shows it by steering me off in the other direction with a firm hand when he spots unsavoury sorts down the road, by telling me to wait in the shelter while he goes to get the car in the rain, by handling the conversation when a random drunk guy starts leering around.
analystfromhell Posted February 1, 2012 Posted February 1, 2012 Seems like mostly men responding to this. I for one would not want to date a woman who wants to be led, wants men to make the decisions, wants to be protected, etc. All of us, male or female like these characteristics to some degree. I mean wouldn't it be great if our partner were incredibly rich, generous and always had a great idea which we wish we'd thought of to do? Probably... but if a woman is looking to me, a man, to always be those things- forget it. I'm not a hunter gatherer, I'm not a bodyguard, am I'm most assuredly a bank for anyone else. Blech!
thatone Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Seems like mostly men responding to this. I for one would not want to date a woman who wants to be led, wants men to make the decisions, wants to be protected, etc. All of us, male or female like these characteristics to some degree. I mean wouldn't it be great if our partner were incredibly rich, generous and always had a great idea which we wish we'd thought of to do? Probably... but if a woman is looking to me, a man, to always be those things- forget it. I'm not a hunter gatherer, I'm not a bodyguard, am I'm most assuredly a bank for anyone else. Blech! you're missing the point... Leadership isn't about making all the decisions and telling people what to do. Leadership is about taking care of them, taking responsibility when **** happens, knowing how to handle yourself in difficult situations and providing a stable, grounded lead to rely on. My guy doesn't show masculinity and leadership by telling me to make him a damn sandwich or insisting on eating at such and such a place. That's immaturity. He shows it by steering me off in the other direction with a firm hand when he spots unsavoury sorts down the road, by telling me to wait in the shelter while he goes to get the car in the rain, by handling the conversation when a random drunk guy starts leering around. ^ that's the point. it's not to be taken literally. it's how you carry yourself around her and how you behave.
analystfromhell Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 I think I understood what you were saying, I just have a different perspective. I don't expect a guy to "protect me" from a drunk and figure I have enough common sense to walk around a drunk. Yeah the company is nice but I wouldn't expect any different behavior from a guy than is expected from a woman companion.
Imageiko Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Good thread! My biggest understanding: Women crave to be led and protected by men just as much as they crave to be understood and respected as well. It's on us to make things happen, to take responsibility to move things forward. It's an easy thing to lose sight of in today's society. Many of us guys were taught growing up to be VERY careful making a move and offending a woman. So we never learned to take charge around women. Also, women's lib and the modern self-help culture ("take charge of your own life!" "anything a man can do a woman can do as well") doesn't really acknowledge that women do respond to a guy's leadership--women won't admit this about themselves because it goes against society's message. another +1 to this. I'm pretty laid back but that used to come off as passive and not assertive, maybe even door mat type behavior. There's a difference between being a quote on quote nice guy and being a nice guy who can take care of himself and have confidence. Figuring out the latter was really the key and is probably the key for most ppl.
Sanman Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 Simple point that I did not understand when I was younger and stupider...dating is a lot like working in sales. In the same way that trying to sell something to a person that is not interested will rarely see success, there is little point in chasing a girl that is not interested. Successful men find the pool of women who are interested and go after them. You are your own product, if you are not getting sales then your product sucks (time to look better, get in shape, fix your problems) or your pitch sucks (work on the way you communicate).
Els Posted February 2, 2012 Posted February 2, 2012 (edited) Simple point that I did not understand when I was younger and stupider...dating is a lot like working in sales. In the same way that trying to sell something to a person that is not interested will rarely see success, there is little point in chasing a girl that is not interested. Successful men find the pool of women who are interested and go after them. Yep, very true. The sad thing is when people insist on not working on characteristics of their own that would make them less appealing to the very niche whom they might have a good chance with otherwise, and then wonder why they have no 'luck'. I think I understood what you were saying, I just have a different perspective. I don't expect a guy to "protect me" from a drunk and figure I have enough common sense to walk around a drunk. Yeah the company is nice but I wouldn't expect any different behavior from a guy than is expected from a woman companion. I did not say 'all women'. Certainly everyone is entitled to their own preferences. I know a girl who gets annoyed when guys insist on being gentlemen, and hey, her life, her choices. Most of us strike a balance between gender roles and individual abilities and common sense - my guy might do all that 'protecting' and a lot of the 'providing', but I also do some traditionally 'guy-stuff' like fix our networks, choosing the restaurants (because I love reading restaurant reviews and he doesn't), making arrangements and talking to staff, and driving us after he's had a hard day's work. I don't mind that at all. Some women may. Whatever works. I was just trying to say that even the women who DO want 'male leadership' don't usually want it in the way that Steve described. Also, as an addendum, I don't think the women who do enjoy a man doing things for her actually cannot do them for herself. I really don't know any women who CAN'T open doors for themselves or carry their groceries. As an example, one day at a pub we were accosted by a rather over-enthusiastic guy who wanted to talk to us about some political stuff. Now, I actually knew more about the issue than my bf did, since I read the papers more. But the guy addressed my bf mostly, and my bf took over the reins because he also knows that I really don't particularly enjoy banter with complete strangers. So I sat back and let him do the 'man-thing', even though I was perfectly capable of holding that discussion. Equally so, my bf can cook perfectly well for himself but he still enjoys it when I cook for him. Doesn't that make sense? Edited February 2, 2012 by Elswyth
insertnamehere Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Best wisdom I have? There is no such thing as casual sex. Worse, women will lie to you and themselves if they feel that casual sex can be a gateway. If a woman is interested in you, she doesn't care if she has to break the door in or pick the lock to get inside. She'll do it. And she will blame you when it fails to materialize. And "you said it was casual" will not be an accepted excuse no matter how true that statement may be.
Untouchable_Fire Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 ...Yes, many women (not all) do respond positively to leadership, but the way you guys are looking at 'leadership' is completely off. Leadership isn't about making all the decisions and telling people what to do. Leadership is about taking care of them, taking responsibility when **** happens, knowing how to handle yourself in difficult situations and providing a stable, grounded lead to rely on. My guy doesn't show masculinity and leadership by telling me to make him a damn sandwich or insisting on eating at such and such a place. That's immaturity. He shows it by steering me off in the other direction with a firm hand when he spots unsavoury sorts down the road, by telling me to wait in the shelter while he goes to get the car in the rain, by handling the conversation when a random drunk guy starts leering around. This post is worth reading twice for some of you guys that are struggling with the leadership qualities. I think there is a lot more to it than even what this post suggests. Seems like mostly men responding to this. I for one would not want to date a woman who wants to be led, wants men to make the decisions, wants to be protected, etc. All of us, male or female like these characteristics to some degree. I mean wouldn't it be great if our partner were incredibly rich, generous and always had a great idea which we wish we'd thought of to do? Probably... but if a woman is looking to me, a man, to always be those things- forget it. I'm not a hunter gatherer, I'm not a bodyguard, am I'm most assuredly a bank for anyone else. Blech! You just excluded like 95% of the female population.
Disenchantedly Yours Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 Three best responses in this thread and I agree with everyone of them: Philosoraptor That each person is different and you can't use a mass judgement on anyone. If you take the time to get to know someone, without expectations or prior stereotypes, you can truly get to know them as a human and therefore develop the correct tools to connect with them. Discjockey80 It was when I realized that alot of the things in my nature that I felt or wanted to do as a man to/toward/with or 'for' a woman but always held myself back from doing out of 'fear' were what they wanted all along. Utlimately a woman wants masculinity (whatever form that takes for each woman) Many guys fall short in character and deed when it comes to that nowdays. A mans character and how he manifests that character are critical to a womans sexual and emotional response to him. There's more to that but thats it in a nutshell. Changed things for me for good. ...Yes, many women (not all) do respond positively to leadership, but the way you guys are looking at 'leadership' is completely off. Leadership isn't about making all the decisions and telling people what to do. Leadership is about taking care of them, taking responsibility when **** happens, knowing how to handle yourself in difficult situations and providing a stable, grounded lead to rely on. My guy doesn't show masculinity and leadership by telling me to make him a damn sandwich or insisting on eating at such and such a place. That's immaturity. He shows it by steering me off in the other direction with a firm hand when he spots unsavoury sorts down the road, by telling me to wait in the shelter while he goes to get the car in the rain, by handling the conversation when a random drunk guy starts leering around.
joystickd Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 When I stopped trying to date women the same race as me. Black women are just too much hassle.
carhill Posted February 3, 2012 Posted February 3, 2012 What exactly did you start understanding about women that changed your success with them? I stopped being concerned about understanding them.
musemaj11 Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 The lower the self-esteem, the lower the cost of entry.
musemaj11 Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 Seems like mostly men responding to this. I for one would not want to date a woman who wants to be led, wants men to make the decisions, wants to be protected, etc. All of us, male or female like these characteristics to some degree. I mean wouldn't it be great if our partner were incredibly rich, generous and always had a great idea which we wish we'd thought of to do? Probably... but if a woman is looking to me, a man, to always be those things- forget it. I'm not a hunter gatherer, I'm not a bodyguard, am I'm most assuredly a bank for anyone else. Blech! This is why I laugh at the idea of gender equality. Women are as equal to men as children are equal to adults. In other words, they are not!
Els Posted February 4, 2012 Posted February 4, 2012 I think there is a lot more to it than even what this post suggests. Oh, I certainly agree. Really, there would probably be a market for a few books written on the subject, if anyone is inclined. You just excluded like 95% of the female population. Well, to be fair, there really are women who do not enjoy what I mentioned. He may be compatible with them, and they aren't that rare. Each to their own, no?
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