serial muse Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 Although I can easily connect with someone who didn't go to college, I'm extremely put off by the attitude that a college degree is just a worthless piece of paper because any monkey can fill in a scantron sheet and write a fill-in-the-blanks essay. I find that attitude extremely insulting, especially since it's borne of total ignorance of what getting a college degree might be like and because it lumps the experiences of hundreds of thousands of people at thousands of different institutions into a neat little box. I make it a point to respect other people's hard work and wish others did the same. This was my thought too. I can totally understand that someone who's chosen not to go to college would be angry at having that choice devalued; but why is it necessary to go so far in the other direction and devalue the choices of those who do go? There are slackers on both sides. Doesn't mean that everyone who gets a degree, or a series of them, is a no-street-smarts, Urkel-high-waisted-pants-wearing, ivory-tower-inhabiting dimbulb who can expound on particle physics but doesn't know how to cross a street. As far as compatibility in relationships between people of differing educational levels - I think the trouble comes when people are too self-conscious about it.
Mutant Debutante Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I suppose it isn't college, but I consider my friends who have attended 'beauty school' (or whatever they're calling it these days, but several of my friends went to the Aveda institute and now make good money) to have done the equivalent of attending college or trade school. They worked just as hard, learned a specific trade. As an amendment to my earlier statement: Trade school, to me, is fine as well, in a partner. My husband has a college degree, but his degree was much more similar to getting a trade school degree than the average university degree---it was a rush program in 2 years (it's a 4 year degree) with mostly hands-on training. I think school is school, FTR, regardless of what you study. Though if studying a trade, it had better be one you want to do! I have this idea because I started with nothing. I earned every dollar that paid for every one of my degrees, either by earning/finding/meeting the requirements for scholarships or working. My parents contributed the sum total of $800 to my undergraduate education, by buying me my first used car. They did help me out with living expenses---mainly grocery gift certificates and health insurance---during the years I was in grad school, particularly during the internship when I couldn't work and was using savings, but I could've done it without them by taking out minimal loans. And that was a Masters degree. ANYONE can do it, if they care enough and do the right things as a teenager. Many people take a long time to get their lives together, though, and it is more of a struggle if you do that. I do understand some people never got the message that they COULD do it, and that held them back, but nowadays (and even in my generation) there's so many sources of information out there, most people have no excuse. I'm not saying it's easy; I'm saying if someone really wanted an education (I mean REALLY wanted it, more than anything else), they could get one, in the VAST majority of cases. FTR, that wasn't directed only at you. But, look, I'm not saying you're a bad person, or that you shouldn't be proud of what you have. But just because you paid your way through college doesn't mean you're not looking out of a little bubble of privilege. From where I'm standing, you totally are. And for the record, yeah, a lot of people pay their own way through college and good for them, but there was still a little bit of luck involved. You should acknowledge that too. I grew up with abusers and addicts, beaten and molested. I was living on the streets most of the time I was supposed to be in high school. I guess you're right, I didn't do all the right things. I was in and out of foster homes, homeless in squats, or working full time under the table while you were in your honors classes in high school. I did get my GED, and I managed to put myself into school for a little while but I was working and fighting for custody of my little sisters. My mom definitely wasn't buying me any cars, she was costing me attorney's fees while I was trying to save my little sisters from her. They have lived with me since I was old enough to take them in. I work two jobs and I'm putting one of THEM through college right now, the little one is just in grade school. I keep a roof over their heads by myself. I even make half of their clothes myself (one of my jobs is as a seamstress). If I ever get the opportunity to go back to school myself, I'll consider the chance to pay my way through to be a total lucky break, and it will mean I've already got both my sisters through school. 'Course by then I might have kids of my own to worry about. Like I said, date who you want. Be proud of what you've got. Please just don't assume that you know what motivates everybody who didn't make it into college, and keep in mind that your motivational speeches about how everybody can do it because you did it, really don't paint the whole picture for everybody. There are a LOT of people out there like me, a lot. People who are poor and have all kinds of circumstances totally stacked against them are NOT a vanishing minority. That's life. I'm not disrespecting people who went to college or calling them Urkels, but anyone who thinks that everyone who didn't go to college just doesn't care about education is living in an ivory tower. My 2 cents. ^Applause. There are people who are alive in their own times and stretch themselves to step out of their own time and either learn relevancies that come from availing one's self of post or extrapolating the meaning of the past and present and thus "seeing" potential futures, or there are those who revel in academic hierarchy, compete with their credentials, and consider themselves "accomplished" by how much they've studied. I don't believe you can be both. Either you're inside the box and impressed by it enough to climb high within it, or you see the box a prison which limits you from being a man or woman for all seasons. Interesting. I like your way with words. Edited January 30, 2012 by Mutant Debutante
jobaba Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 I grew up with abusers and addicts, beaten and molested. I was living on the streets most of the time I was supposed to be in high school. I guess you're right, I didn't do all the right things. I was in and out of foster homes, homeless in squats, or working full time under the table while you were in your honors classes in high school. I did get my GED, and I managed to put myself into school for a little while but I was working and fighting for custody of my little sisters. My mom definitely wasn't buying me any cars, she was costing me attorney's fees while I was trying to save my little sisters from her. They have lived with me since I was old enough to take them in. I work two jobs and I'm putting one of THEM through college right now, the little one is just in grade school. I keep a roof over their heads by myself. I even make half of their clothes myself (one of my jobs is as a seamstress). If I ever get the opportunity to go back to school myself, I'll consider the chance to pay my way through to be a total lucky break, and it will mean I've already got both my sisters through school. 'Course by then I might have kids of my own to worry about. Yea. That's a great story. It's more about motivation and dealing with your situation than degrees. I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth and totally do not take that for granted. High school through top rated college ... none of it cost me a dime. I had to tell my parents that I WANTED to pay for my grad school myself. Because they were ready to pay for all of it. I totally see and respect people who do not have nearly as much.
denise_xo Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 I grew up with abusers and addicts, beaten and molested. I was living on the streets most of the time I was supposed to be in high school. I guess you're right, I didn't do all the right things. I was in and out of foster homes, homeless in squats, or working full time under the table while you were in your honors classes in high school. I did get my GED, and I managed to put myself into school for a little while but I was working and fighting for custody of my little sisters. My mom definitely wasn't buying me any cars, she was costing me attorney's fees while I was trying to save my little sisters from her. They have lived with me since I was old enough to take them in. I work two jobs and I'm putting one of THEM through college right now, the little one is just in grade school. I keep a roof over their heads by myself. I even make half of their clothes myself (one of my jobs is as a seamstress). If I ever get the opportunity to go back to school myself, I'll consider the chance to pay my way through to be a total lucky break, and it will mean I've already got both my sisters through school. 'Course by then I might have kids of my own to worry about. Like I said, date who you want. Be proud of what you've got. Please just don't assume that you know what motivates everybody who didn't make it into college, and keep in mind that your motivational speeches about how everybody can do it because you did it, really don't paint the whole picture for everybody. There are a LOT of people out there like me, a lot. People who are poor and have all kinds of circumstances totally stacked against them are NOT a vanishing minority. That's life. Wow, much respect to you. That's really impressive.
zengirl Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 (edited) I grew up with abusers and addicts, beaten and molested. I was living on the streets most of the time I was supposed to be in high school. I guess you're right, I didn't do all the right things. I was in and out of foster homes, homeless in squats, or working full time under the table while you were in your honors classes in high school. I did get my GED, and I managed to put myself into school for a little while but I was working and fighting for custody of my little sisters. And that story would get you $100,000 in scholarship money if you leveraged it right and studied for some entrance tests. You could've supported your sisters and gone to school. That's just a fact. I get that you might not have been in the state of mind to deal with it then, but if you had a burning desire to go to college -- one that really drove you, I think it would've happened anyway. I find scholarships for kids and young adults in similar situations all the time. If college were really your top priority once you got things together, you could go. You may have had it rough, but I know people who had it rough (yes, rougher than me) who did it. And most people don't even REALLY have it rough. But, as you said, college was not your top priority or even one of them. Maybe it shouldn't be everyone's. But it is possible for almost everyone, if it's really their priority was my point. Not that it's not easier for some than others; certainly it is. But it's possible for anyone. It's still possible for you now. ETA: I don't judge anyone for not going, but I don't think someone who truly dreams of education can be held back (prioritize education), if they have drive (ambition). I do think people sometimes have other **** to do, and I get that. But that's not what you said in your post before. Your sacrificing for your sisters is lovely, but it overpowered your other priorities; understandable but not disproving what I meant. Edited January 30, 2012 by zengirl
denise_xo Posted January 30, 2012 Posted January 30, 2012 I would say, though, that saying that something is technically available to everyone kind of misses the nuances of Mutant Debutant's post. Making education a priority isn't always possible for someone due to whatever circumstances one might be in. Stating that anyone could do it if they just wanted it enough glosses over the fact that sometimes wanting it enough isn't going to cut it alone. I mentor applicants from developing countries applying to major universities in Europe, and just navigating the application process is a pretty demanding task in itself for them. These are extremely bright and resilient people who have grown up in circumstances of war or civil war and have still made their way through undergraduate school at fee paying institutions with top grades. Still, something like just getting the genre wrong of a statement of purpose for a master's degree application can throw them right out of the application process. Getting that style of writing right really has zero to do about ability for academic studies - it just shows that you master a specific literary genre called 'statement of purpose'. That's just a small example, but I think the devil is often in the detail is terms of what makes or breaks entry to higher education.
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