Education Differences

[thatone]

You dont have a degree, do you?

 

i said i didn't in the post you quoted. did they not teach you how to pay attention in college?

 

however my partners and i do have a full time attorney, and two other contract basis graduate degree holders (another attorney specialized in leases and of course, a CPA) so don't worry, i employ my share of them.

 

btw you are proving my point in that post you quoted too.

[tigressA]

i said i didn't in the post you quoted. did they not teach you how to pay attention in college?

 

however my partners and i do have a full time attorney, and two other contract basis graduate degree holders (another attorney specialized in leases and of course, a CPA) so don't worry, i employ my share of them.

 

btw you are proving my point in that post you quoted too.

 

:lmao:

 

-------

[jobaba]

So, I am wondering about if you're dating someone who doesn't have the same educational background as you.

 

I have two bachelors degrees and a certificate to teach English, and I'm proud that I finished university and am educated.

 

I am starting to date a girl who went straight from high school into the work world and hasn't really pursued an education. I met her at the doctor's office I go to, but she's a receptionist.

 

For me, it's more about if she's motivated than how many silly pieces of paper she has on the wall. If she's working as a receptionist and going to school at night, or working as a receptionist and singing in lounges at night trying to make it as a musician, that's awesome.

 

If she's a receptionist and sits on the couch all day after work with no plans to further education and has no motivation to anything, I wouldn't date her.

 

That said, I do agree with the person who said a bachelor's degree shows a certain minimum level of motivation. They're pretty easy to get.

[tigressA]

Well at any rate, I certainly hope this doesn't turn into a "You aren't like 'this'/you don't do 'this' so even though I should've treated 'this' as important enough to not even consider dating you seriously, I will make you feel like s*it about what I feel are your shortcomings in hopes that you will change" situation.

[jobaba]

you and me both carhill, so there's at least 2 of us.

 

i just didn't like the structure of college. i read every day, have since i was 6 or 7 years old.

 

i'm more of that 'street smarts, go figure it out and get it done' type person that professor x is talking about. i didn't like other people telling me what i was supposed to learn and what i was supposed to know. what if they're wrong? then i've effectively paid someone for bad advice.

 

and i disagree musemaj11, from my experience with younger people fresh out of college, that often translates into a cocky kid who really doesn't know sh*t about sh*t, but is slightly more annoying because he thinks he does.

 

i said i didn't in the post you quoted. did they not teach you how to pay attention in college?

 

however my partners and i do have a full time attorney, and two other contract basis graduate degree holders (another attorney specialized in leases and of course, a CPA) so don't worry, i employ my share of them.

 

btw you are proving my point in that post you quoted too.

 

Yea. You probably work in construction or contracting. I used to work with contractors as an engineer and scientist and they'd always come up to me and ask "How much do you make?"

 

Just so they could tell me they made more without any degree whatsoever.

 

But if you were a woman, you'd be screwed.

 

You also sound like you're from a different generation. These days, EVERYBODY has at least a bachelors degree.

[veggirl]

Doesn't matter to me. Of the people I know who have a Bachelors nowadays, can't say I've found them to be better conversationalists, more intellectual, etc than those I know who don't.

 

If school, education, and work are gonna run your life, then yeah you'd be best off finding someone else similar. For most people in the real world, I don't think it's that much of an issue. I think the issue is whether or not a guy or girl can take care of themself.

[kaylan]

To me education level in a woman is just like education level in a job applicant in the eyes of an employer.

 

I mean despite not having a university degree himself, Bill Gates still requires people who work for him to have degrees. Of course a degree doesnt guarantee someone to be intelligent, but it is an undeniable fact that a university graduate is a lot more likely to be more knowledgeable and open minded than someone with little education.

 

^This^...Like I said on page 1...its not a cut and dry assertion that education equals intelligence, but studies show that, on average, those with college degrees make more money and are more learned than those without. It is what it is. Like tends to attract like, as I said in my own thread regarding this topic.

[GoodOnPaper]

That's my whole point--if it is a preference and an important one, why is the OP even dating this girl? If having gone to college is so important for him to have in a mate then he should let this girl go, or if he still likes her enough to continue dating her, forget about her lack of education beyond high school and accept her the way she is. It's total and complete douchebaggery to continue dating her and meanwhile, continue to complain that she doesn't meet his preference.

 

Maybe he will let her go, maybe she'll let him go. Either way, the problem will resolve itself. It's not even a matter of douchebaggery -- it's a matter of whether or not the issue becomes more burdensome than the enjoyment of being with each other.

 

I chalk this up to the occupational hazard of being on the side that approaches. When approached -- as most women are on a regular basis -- it's easy to look at the guy, compare him to your list of preferences and filter him out. But as a guy who approaches, do you simply not ask a woman out unless she's "perfect"? That could mean months or years in between first dates -- most of us wouldn't consider that acceptable. So sometimes you take a chance and try to get to know someone who seems cute and interesting. I still think the OP may not have realized this preference was so important initially and maybe there are other things about her he really likes. That could make it difficult to simply drop things, especially if he's not used to rejecting women. Some of us get very little -- if any -- practice at that.

[kaylan]

Yea. You probably work in construction or contracting. I used to work with contractors as an engineer and scientist and they'd always come up to me and ask "How much do you make?"

 

Just so they could tell me they made more without any degree whatsoever.

 

But if you were a woman, you'd be screwed.

 

You also sound like you're from a different generation. These days, EVERYBODY has at least a bachelors degree.

 

Actually, degree holders are only 30% of the population at most. A lot more people attend school then back in the day, but many dont finish. Plus, because people tend to hang out with like minded individuals, it would make sense that those with degrees mostly have friends with degrees. Plus more women are going to school then men nowadays...dunno why that it though.

[stillafool]

Maybe he will let her go, maybe she'll let him go. Either way, the problem will resolve itself. It's not even a matter of douchebaggery -- it's a matter of whether or not the issue becomes more burdensome than the enjoyment of being with each other.

 

I chalk this up to the occupational hazard of being on the side that approaches. When approached -- as most women are on a regular basis -- it's easy to look at the guy, compare him to your list of preferences and filter him out. But as a guy who approaches, do you simply not ask a woman out unless she's "perfect"? That could mean months or years in between first dates -- most of us wouldn't consider that acceptable. So sometimes you take a chance and try to get to know someone who seems cute and interesting. I still think the OP may not have realized this preference was so important initially and maybe there are other things about her he really likes. That could make it difficult to simply drop things, especially if he's not used to rejecting women. Some of us get very little -- if any -- practice at that.

 

 

I think if one knows that education is important to them (Like Kaylan), it is easy to ask questions to the person you have an interest in and find out these things before you go the trouble of asking them out. That would save a lot of time wasted of both parties time.

[stillafool]

Actually, degree holders are only 30% of the population at most. A lot more people attend school then back in the day, but many dont finish. Plus, because people tend to hang out with like minded individuals, it would make sense that those with degrees mostly have friends with degrees. Plus more women are going to school then men nowadays...dunno why that it though.

 

 

Because they want to be financially independent.

[zengirl]

Am I really? He said himself right in his OP that he feels 'hindered' by the differences. I'm asking him why that's the case. If he feels strongly enough about it to feel hindered, there must be a reason behind it.

 

We can feel hindered by all kinds of differences in a relationship - social background, economic backgrounds/ current differences in income, differences in cultural backgrounds, and so on - and educational difference is one of them. Looking down upon others for their differences is one thing (which I obviously don't condone), but to expect that you might not be compatible because of one difference or another is quite normal, I think. We all seek a partner that we consider 'compatible' in certain key areas we've decided are important for us.

 

tigress, I would answer you, but denise already did it better!

 

I agree with you that the OP shouldn't take this as a reason to look down on or resent his GF, but I didn't get the idea that's where he was going, really. YMMV.

 

Actually, degree holders are only 30% of the population at most. A lot more people attend school then back in the day, but many dont finish. Plus, because people tend to hang out with like minded individuals, it would make sense that those with degrees mostly have friends with degrees. Plus more women are going to school then men nowadays...dunno why that it though.

 

As to why more women: there are certain fields, like construction and automotive repair and so forth that make plenty of money, are plenty necessary, and are still rarely held by women. Many of them require physical labor which women find much more difficult than men, overall. (Exceptions exist, of course!) So, if a woman wants a successful future, she probably needs a degree a little bit more than a man.

 

FTR, I don't think there's anything 'wrong' with anyone not going to college, but I do think it was different even in my parents' generation (they're just around 50, on either side of it). No one in my family had a degree till after me, though I have a cousin that does and my Stepdad got one at night recently, and plenty of them worked white collar jobs. Not so easy now. My grandfather was even an engineer and a manager for a major company and rose all the way up to an executive board member position. No degree. You just won't see that now. ETA: My stepfather was an IT professional, software developer, and manager before he even started his degree; company paid for it, and now he's basically an all around Computer Master. He cannot hire someone, no matter how talented/how much he wanted to, without a degree, but really the best people in his field my age have degrees! Things have just changed in that field, particularly, but in many fields.

 

But I agree that the MORE unsettling trend is that people go to college nowadays and drop out so easily! Really, someone with some ambition besides college sounds better than someone who went and couldn't finish (barring true circumstances, like a major family issue). Most people who find ambition young will go to college (though many people who do go to college have no ambition or passion!); only a few will truly get a passion for something else. Those that do, I see no issue with, if they have any hopes of reaching their dreams and put in the requisite work. But that doesn't mean they'd be compatible with everyone!

Edited January 27, 2012 by zengirl

[musemaj11]

To me education is not about money. Its about enriching your mind and your life.

 

Of course the kind of education that you receive also matters. For example Im not interested in someone who got her degree from a Catholic school where she was taught that God created the universe in six days and rested on the seventh.

[jobaba]

Actually, degree holders are only 30% of the population at most. A lot more people attend school then back in the day, but many dont finish. Plus, because people tend to hang out with like minded individuals, it would make sense that those with degrees mostly have friends with degrees. Plus more women are going to school then men nowadays...dunno why that it though.

 

It's 30% for the whole population age 25+. For those within the age range of 25 to 45 (the bulk of the rising workforce), I'd estimate it's closer to about 40%. That's a lot of people. Which basically means having a bachelors degree don't mean Jack-Sheeeet.

 

Which is why I think it's kind of comical when people brag about their bachelor degree. If somebody wants something to brag about, go get an MD. Now, that, is something not everybody has...

 

As to why more women: there are certain fields, like construction and automotive repair and so forth that make plenty of money, are plenty necessary, and are still rarely held by women. Many of them require physical labor which women find much more difficult than men, overall. (Exceptions exist, of course!) So, if a woman wants a successful future, she probably needs a degree a little bit more than a man.

 

Yuppers. As a woman these days, if you don't have a bachelors degree, you're usually restricted to doing administrative or assistant type work making $15/hr. You could be an entrepreneur or real estate agent, or sales, but those are crapshoots.

 

A man can go into labor or skilled trades and make just as much as someone with a college degree. But it's a physical toll.

 

Anyway, this is a dating forum.

[skelterhelter]

I'm a college-educated woman. I graduated with my Bachelors in English, and took a few Masters classes (although ultimately didn't finish). I'm well-versed in literature, poetry, writing. Do I value education? Yes, highly. Is it the most important factor in picking a mate? No. Because, deep down, I prefer someone who can converse with me about social/relationship issues rather than intellectual matters. Of course it'd be nice to meet someone who thinks education is important (and maybe knows how to spell. That would be nice), but it isn't the end all be all to my relationship. I'd much rather my mate be a kind, considerate and respectful person.

 

For example, the last guy I dated finished high school but dropped out of college. He holds a decent job in a hospital. What this guy lacked in education and book smarts he more than made up for in "people smarts". This guy knew how to read people in a matter of minutes just by observing them! Interacting with people and knowing how to deal with them is a really great skill to have, one that most don't possess. Honestly, I much prefer someone who can talk about people and different societal issues than someone who can spout off about books or whathaveyou. If the person respects education at a basic level, then that's awesome. But ultimately I want someone who can relate to me on a human level, and you don't really need a degree for that.

[FitChick]

Education and intelligence are two different things. What matters more is a general curiosity about the world and learning new things.

 

I date British men and. while you get the Eton/Oxbridge group (love that posh accent!), many are very successful without having a university education. It never was that important in business in the UK until recently. They are more well rounded than similar American men. Most are well versed in history, travel, and the arts. I've learned quite a bit from them (important to me in a man). I have a university degree.

[stillafool]

Why can't this just be a "preference"? That's what we guys are told when we struggle to attract women -- there is nothing we can do if we don't fall within their supposedly-subjective "preferences".

 

There's nothing wrong with preferences. Just as you would have a preference for blondes, you do not ask out brunettes. Most people have some type of conversation before they decide to go out on a date and that is the time to also find out if that person meets your criteria. If you know your preferences you don't ask a person out on a date who you don't prefer. I hope OP has learned that from this experience.

[FitChick]

As a woman these days, if you don't have a bachelors degree, you're usually restricted to doing administrative or assistant type work making $15/hr.

 

Interestingly, the majority of admin/asst type jobs require a college degree these days. Probably because so many high school grads are barely literate due to the poor quality education in the public schools.

[jerbear]

Interestingly, the majority of admin/asst type jobs require a college degree these days. Probably because so many high school grads are barely literate due to the poor quality education in the public schools.

That is so true, there is one firm I know where the admin/asst types are Rhodes scholars, Presidential Interns, have MS degrees and just amazing. They are AA's and wow; spoke to some and they get paid well and the firm expects them to move on. If they are AA's, I can't imagine the managers.

 

It's 30% for the whole population age 25+. For those within the age range of 25 to 45 (the bulk of the rising workforce), I'd estimate it's closer to about 40%. That's a lot of people. Which basically means having a bachelors degree don't mean Jack-Sheeeet.

Yelp, a bachelors degree is the 1970's version of high school. Even where the bachelors degree matters now.

 

Which is why I think it's kind of comical when people brag about their bachelor degree. If somebody wants something to brag about, go get an MD. Now, that, is something not everybody has...

Yeah but some degrees have more weight because of where they got it, how they got it, etc...

 

I would respect a first generation immigrant college graduate, working poverty class, top 5 college/university, whose last name is not on a building, and paid their own way; over someone who got a degree in underwater basket weaving from a party school because their last name was on a building.

 

 

Yuppers. As a woman these days, if you don't have a bachelors degree, you're usually restricted to doing administrative or assistant type work making $15/hr. You could be an entrepreneur or real estate agent, or sales, but those are crapshoots.

 

A man can go into labor or skilled trades and make just as much as someone with a college degree. But it's a physical toll.

Not really, there are some firms that require college degrees to hold the job. Getting an AA job is not an easy task in this economy.

 

A firm I know has AA's who have masters degrees, working in their field, and get promoted within the firm. These AA's are Rhodes scholars, Oxford grads, etc... If you were an AA with a high school degree, you'll have no chance.

[kaylan]

It's 30% for the whole population age 25+. For those within the age range of 25 to 45 (the bulk of the rising workforce), I'd estimate it's closer to about 40%. That's a lot of people. Which basically means having a bachelors degree don't mean Jack-Sheeeet.

 

Which is why I think it's kind of comical when people brag about their bachelor degree. If somebody wants something to brag about, go get an MD. Now, that, is something not everybody has...

 

Can you provide a study with this 40%...because any study I have seen and any stats show 30% at most. It sounds like another person without a degree has an inferiority complex. Degrees are not "jack sheet". If they were, then studies wouldnt exist showing that those with degree make more money and are more learned than those without. This isnt a hard and fast statement...but these statistical correlations are valid. Getting a college degree is a smart path for folks.

[jobaba]

 

Yeah but some degrees have more weight because of where they got it, how they got it, etc...

 

 

In most fields, where you went to school MIGHT help you get your first job. But it won't help much more. Coming from someone who went to a Top 15 school...

 

That's part of the problem. Too many private colleges and over enrollment have diluted the weight of a college degree, even an Ivy League Degree.

[Queen Zenobia]

Can you provide a study with this 40%...because any study I have seen and any stats show 30% at most. It sounds like another person without a degree has an inferiority complex. Degrees are not "jack sheet". If they were, then studies wouldnt exist showing that those with degree make more money and are more learned than those without. This isnt a hard and fast statement...but these statistical correlations are valid. Getting a college degree is a smart path for folks.

 

The numbers are all over the place as to how many people have college degrees. In Washington D.C., the city I live closest to, 45% of people aged 25 or older have college degrees, I'd imagine in more industrial oriented or rural areas that number would be smaller.

 

As for college being "smart" for people, eh, it depends. If you're going to get a degree in Philosophy or English, spending $100k is probably not a good investment unless you have a definitive plan to go into law or academia. If you're going into Science, Technology or Mathematics then yeah it's probably a good investment.

 

The whole "college is good for everyone" is just a line put out by the higher education industrial complex. Not everyone can be a white collar worker.

[jerbear]

In most fields, where you went to school MIGHT help you get your first job. But it won't help much more. Coming from someone who went to a Top 15 school...

 

That's part of the problem. Too many private colleges and over enrollment have diluted the weight of a college degree, even an Ivy League Degree.

 

No kidding about the diluted value of college degrees. It is what you know to get your first job then its who you know; even Ivy League graduates need their alumni network.

[kaylan]

The numbers are all over the place as to how many people have college degrees. In Washington D.C., the city I live closest to, 45% of people aged 25 or older have college degrees, I'd imagine in more industrial oriented or rural areas that number would be smaller.

 

As for college being "smart" for people, eh, it depends. If you're going to get a degree in Philosophy or English, spending $100k is probably not a good investment unless you have a definitive plan to go into law or academia. If you're going into Science, Technology or Mathematics then yeah it's probably a good investment.

 

The whole "college is good for everyone" is just a line put out by the higher education industrial complex. Not everyone can be a white collar worker.

 

 

Of course metropolitan areas skew the averages higher. It still doesnt change the national average though. I live in the burbs of NYC and less people have degrees up here than down in the city itself.

 

And I wouldnt advise anyone to spend 100k on school. I happily went to state college and got out with only 24k in debt. Even making 40k a year I could pay that off in a few years with good budgeting. Hell before college I had my own place and fed myself making far less.

Edited January 27, 2012 by kaylan

[setsenia]

I think it's not something serious to consider if you are in the dating phase. I think it's something more to consider when you are thinking of becoming serious and settling down. When you decide to have a long term relationship, a large disparity in income does affect both of you. I know plenty of people who've gone into trades and have certifications who make a good income. So you don't necessarily have to have a college degree to make a good living. However, I think it's important that when perusing a long lasting, financially fit relationship, there are things you need to consider. Such as unpredictable matters like economy. What if you lost your job and your spouse's income is not enough? Or what if you have arguments over who's paying all the bills? Also, if you're an individual who is motivated by success, a person who doesn't mind living check to check may not be for you. Many are happy with their lifestyles, but that may not be for you. I know where you are coming from. For me, personally, I was raised with the fact that going to college wasn't just an option. So for my father especially, it's important that I'm with someone who's successful and has many goals and dreams like I do. It's the way I was raised and how my views were formed. My brother wasn't always motivated for constant success, but he became motivated, went back to school and graduated from UC (University of California). However, his girlfriend works for barely more than minimum wage as a drugstore clerk. Although she keeps telling him she'll go back to school, it's not happening. She's been saying that since since she's been with him the last 3 years. She's 25 and has expressed to us that she hates school, but would love to have kids within the next 2-3 years. I told my brother to face it, she's not going back to school. If he cannot accept that, he needs to move on. My brother is the type that believes in 50/50 when it comes to finances. Although I think his girlfriend has been doing some harm to his motivation. He no longer seems interested in pursing a financially stable, rewarding career. He said he doesn't mind living check to check as long as he's happy. It's not a bad thing, but he never used to think this way. This goes to show that your partner can and will have an effect on you. If they have opposite views on life, it might be best to be with someone who shares those same goals and dreams.

Edited January 27, 2012 by setsenia