frenchmanfl Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Hey anyone who might still be looking out for my news. I imagine any of you that have stopped by probably did so because they were kind enough to follow and contribute to my first post, so I won't drag any of you through a summary of what lead up to this point. In other words, I am hoping downtown, exit and the crew will have been kind enough to check up on me. So....the last step I had taken with my now confirmed ex, after her multiple days silence was to go NC. She finally calls, I don't pick up and she leaves not only leaves a message but follows up with a cutesy text. I do not return the contact. The next day she calls twice and says " really would like to have a chat " and closed with a cutesy ending, with an LOL at the end. Because I simply don't like being a jerk. I wrote her a very sweet email the next morning saying that I was facing not so nice images that had re-surfaced thanks to my nine month infidelity experience with my exw. That the current " no commitment " stage was unsustainable and that the only way for me to rid myself of these thoughts was to pull myself away from the source emotionally, but that I did not blame her for anything, ie any thoughts I might have rooted in infidelity because she had been clear that there was commitment between us. I followed by saying that I was a patient man and did see a future for us but that the only way I could see this happening was if we could work on " us " as one entity. I closed that I wasn't giving up completely nor would I be gone forever. That the feelings expressed ( love ) for her were very real and would not dissipate. That I would reach in in time and if she wasn't committed to anyone.... You get the picture. Note : I had a girlfriend read the message and she thought it was very sweet and nicely put. Well, within five minutes I had a response. She lashed out at me saying that I had done nothing to prove that I was a friend or anything else for that matter. That I made no effort to talk or see her ( BS ) and she was no longer interested anyway. I responded saying that I had texted her on Friday to tell her I was thinking of her ( this was the day I drove the models around ) because I was right near her place and wished her a great night. I explained that because I wasn't sure if she might be with someone else, I didn't want to invite myself over but rather was throwing a line out. A line she didn't respond to until three days later. I went on to explain that I wanted to talk but was tired of reaching her a/m and then waiting for her ( a day or two later ) to find the time to respond. That whenever she called, no matter how busy I was I made time to call her back in a couple of hours. Said this showed the disparity between who sat where on our priority lists. I followed up with a " However, if we were in a committed relationship I wouldn't have cared if we hadn't spoken for a month " An exageration but aimed at nipping the inevitable " needy" insult and to ensure I brought the point back to " commitment " Her response, I was busy and when I am busy then I don't always have to respond etc etc. Too busy to take a few seconds to respond to my text on Friday ? She then texts me my text from Friday as some kind of proof that my message didn't say anything about getting together ( explained ) and then things got uglier from there. She psycho analyzed me saying I needed therapy was controlling and immature, to which I responded I won't be told I am crazy because I want a normal loving relationship and said " your problem is that you are looking for someone who will treat you like sh*& " I don't roll like that. I know I should not have taken the bait. Idiot ! I forget the last set of sentences except for my saying, I am a patient man, when you are ready to commit, call. Her response " thanks but no thanks " Ultimately it was my freakin fault for even engaging in the conversation but WTF ? In a few fell swoops she turned the entire thing on me and then said goodbye, please don't communicate with me again, your being domineering and immature. I responded with " your wish is my command, you won't hear from me again. It's a pity you weren't able to recognize someone who was willing to take a bullet for you " I am stunned. I am somewhat hurt, but I purged most of the pain in the run up to the email. I am angry because I feel robbed of what could be a beautiful relationship. I know BPD, it always seems perfect. I have read about mirroring but have to re-iterate that my emotions weren't about being put on a pedestal or the honeymoon, they were about real mutual passions that were proven in the physical world. Cookbooks, Music, Books on Asian Art etc etc. I have read repeated accounts that it only gets worse from here on out. Is it simply impossible to recover from these kinds of events. I am not hunched over in a pool of tears and I even found myself angry at her today and identifying things that i didn't like about her ( but being reasonable I said " I don't really care about those things " They were not character flaws but rather little niggles ). I am so damn frustrated. I wanted to set a boundary and was so ready to chill back leaving her with the understanding that I am sorry but you just can't have your cake and eat it to. Essentially giving her complete release of any responsibility to me allowing her to feel completely free to pursue whatever she wanted without any guilt and she turns it around on me and makes me out to be the crazy lunatic who she had lost interest in. Oh and she said " yeah your not returning my calls was just proof of your loyalty " Now here is the sickest question...I still feel frustrated because I didn't manage to nail her down to a commitment, which would have erased the one concern I had, infidelity ( I know no guarantees but I believe her when she says she is loyal when committed ) and allowed me to see once and for all if I could sustain a relationship with her. What are the odds I get that chance ? I know all about recycling and with each break there is more resentment on her part. Note, however, that for all of the fury of the last break up, it never even entered into the dialogue when she was ripping me a new one over the phone for three hours. I don't know, anyway, I needed to write. It's been bugging me all day. Regardless of whether she does try to contact me again, the condition is set. Commit or it goes no further. I will not play friends. Words of wisdom please. Thank you !
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 While I am here I have an unrelated question in an attempt to get to some understanding of how they tick. Jealousy ? I mean there were a couple of times where my ex actually got jealous when gay guys would check me out. She was also clearly angry about the modeling driving gig. What gives ? It's almost counter intuitive that they have this detachment but then emotions can boil up that drive jealousy ? Anyway just thought I would ask because at the same time she was refusing to commit she was exhibiting jealousy towards a driving models around job. WTF ?
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 I know your right florescent, I know, but it still sucks. My original email wasn't some ruse, I was walking away emotionally anyway. I wasn't going to go through another chase after another woman who would keep me dangling worrying about who she might be with or deal with lies. If she wanted out why didn't she just respond with an OK ? She killed this the first time with same kind of cold dismissal. I still have stuff at her place, not critical but a girlfriend of mine said don't ask and what is strange is that she hasn't brought it up either, when the first break up she did. How do I handle that one ? Yes, I know while not crushed and much more in tune with reality, I am not at the detachment stage yet and it's hard to think about. Why a woman who a few month back was ready to walk down the aisle with me could suddenly be concerned with a commitment ( likely another player in the picture but she is not getting any younger and she is a bloody handful. I can't see anyone putting up with her one minute madly in love the next sullen and angry. I mean our honeymoon lasted 2 months at best, then she was getting angry because I was taking too much space on the bed etc. ) I believe we have another case of another couple with great potential ruined by BPD. Anyway, letting go just needed to air it out. Disappointed deeply but not crushed. I just found out about the SET Technique of communicating. She clearly felt I was abandoning her and needed to have the last word. I reacted defensively instead of just shutting down. My defensive mechanism and attempt to reason with her. Sad another one bites the dust. Maybe the new guy will fair better.
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 Florescent, I am genuinely interested in your view of what I need to address in myself. I admit the jealousy thing was a childish question and a reach to try and find out how someone could feel such emotions. However, I do realize that I have some underlying issues of my own to deal with and they largely have to do with my marriage. I had once thought that I had absorbed them and that they were not there but it's clear that I too have abandonment issues maybe, given how my ex left me. But was it wrong to ask for a commitment from my exgf ? When I first wrote everyone was in approval of my decision to do so, so where did I go wrong in all of this. She didn't contact me for days at a time, then when i didn't return her calls after I decided to go NC, I didn't want to leave her dangling so I sent a sweet message explaining rather than being mean and simply ignoring her. Genuinely, if you have some insight based on what you have read, I really want to hear it because if I need to fix something then I need to work on it now. I am not too emotional, jarred but I am rational.
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 26, 2012 Author Posted January 26, 2012 You already know all of the details, so I am not exposing anything new but here is the letter I wrote. Again I am trying to get to the bottom of any underlying issues I may have which is why I share this with you. I did with a friend but maybe she was biased. A completely fresh opinion would be helpful. : [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200]Bonjour Cheri,[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] I hope you had a beautiful night.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] I wanted to provide an explanation for my silence. I know my emails are always long, I simply don't know how else to be when the matters are of a deep nature, so I apologize for putting you through another.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] If you recall that email I sent regarding my emotions " no matter space and time ", well they haven't changed, nor will they. There is a lot of life left, I am a patient man and I don't give up on anything this rich with possibility.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] With that said things, in their current iteration, are unsustainable and I am unable to deal with a position as an option. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] I will elaborate a little on this point, so that it is clear that this is not some control or childish jealousy issue, because it is neither. When I feel like I am " the one " in the heart of my partner, I am the complete antithesis of a jealous or controlling lover. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] However, ever since you expressed the sentiment " when I see something I like, I go for it ", memories of what I went through towards the end of my marriage have re-surfaced. I had to endure many months of very difficult thoughts while Lynn was, well, doing all of the things one does when they are assessing other options. In the end, I would not change the result for all of the tea in China. I am so much happier for it and nothing would ever entice me to return to her, nothing. However, the difficult journey of lingering betrayal, to that point, still remains close to the surface.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] You have been clear that there is no commitment between you and I, so my previous situation bears no resemblance to ours and therefore you bear absolutely no responsibility for what my head goes through. [/COLOR][/FONT][FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200]I do not equate the two situations. I can use the reasoning that you and I are not together, until I am blue in the face, but it doesn't change the racing and vivid images I have been facing. It's not constant but sufficient enough to hurt. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] You are right, this is not your problem, it's mine and it is not your problem that I have the feelings I have for you, it's mine but it's not something one can just switch off. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] So, while I will continue to dream of a future between us my only recourse, to dispense with these difficult images I experience, is to pull away emotionally and eliminate any stimuli that will exacerbate lingering feelings of a connection to the source. It's my coping mechanism. You can label it weak, immature or out of touch with the dating scene today, but it's just how I manage. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] In time, I will reach out. If you haven't found " the one " then it will be my single minded goal to start fresh and sweep you off your feet. By that time, it is my hope that my past errors, borne of adjustments to a very new existence and unfamiliar situations not, in any way shape or form out of a lack of respect for you, will have been pushed into the history books. If there is a next time what I will seek is a return to a point where I made you happy but more importantly I will want a relationship of substance and communication.[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] This is not goodbye forever but goodbye for now, I promise. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] Until the next cher amour, stay safe and happy. You will not leave my heart, my thoughts or my soul. [/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200] All my love,[/COLOR][/FONT] [FONT=Cambria][COLOR=#201200]P.[/COLOR][/FONT]
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 27, 2012 Author Posted January 27, 2012 Not sure how to reply to your response. I do want to clarify something. After the first break up, I admitted to her that I made errors and that the time apart had been very healthy and that I was coming in with a fresh perspective on things. So I did do a LOT of self reflection. However, prior to knowing what one might face with any PD, all of the completely foreign reactions one gets at such early stages in what one believes is a great romance, can be very destabilizing for anyone. I didn't realize any of it until I started researching all of this during the break up. A break up she sabotaged, only three days after we were talking about marriage etc. She accused me of all kinds of things and it hit me like a ton of bricks. I was actually looking at hold over rings the day she crashed things. We had that talk you spoke of, four hours of her telling me what she didn't like. I defended a little but apologized for all of it. Said she was right and that I already knew where I needed to adjust, that I brought some baggage into things from my past marriage. I sent her a text after the conversation saying, Let's take things slow, no rushing, I am sorry I hurt you " her response was I know, honey. get some rest. " Then I didn't hear from her for four days. I called and left one message. Nothing ! I know this will come off as defensive but I don't think your being entirely fair with your assessment. I was ready to do everything right, chill prove that I learned, prove that I heard, all of it. But she kept the friends thing going, calling me when she had been out partying all night, yet saying that she wanted to focus on work. So I came here to try and get some idea of what the psychology might be. The one minute calling me honey and spending four hours on the phone telling me all of my problems. I got answers, but I didn't feel I should have to tolerate this kind of behavior. Yes, I admit I asked some silly questions. I am emotional and searching for answers and trying to find even a nugget of sense as to what her feelings could have been for me that when I did go NC suddenly she was sending me sweet cute texts, after blowing me off for several days. I am sorry but it is strange behavior and it can be directly attributed to every single thing I have read about BPD. I can assure you that if this relationship had taken a normal course, that I have all of the personal reflection capabilities necessary to accept where and when I went wrong, but none of these were callous or crushing. If anything the only feeling I might have portrayed was a sense of slight insecurity, because of all of the mixed messages. The final exchanges between her and I were borne of anger and frustration. The only problem I have is fear of being cheated on again and going through the agony of watching someone I love betray me. This would not have surfaced if I had been with someone who wasn't afraid to commit to me after only a few months ago saying she wanted to marry only to crash the relationship out of nowhere. This is not normal behavior, so I believe it's kind of natural for someone who is just getting to understand this kind of psychology to seek answers. To get some sort of validation that they weren't wrong to think it was all a little weird but more importantly to try and seek answers on how it might be possible to rescue things. Yes I forced the issue of commitment because I was not going to spend the next 6 months dreaming of her with other men. I don't think there is anything wrong with expecting fidelity or reacting poorly if one is threatened. In fact I think I tried to handle it maturely with my letter. I didn't accuse her of anything. In short I came here to vent and yes seek some validation that I wasn't insane for expecting what I did. I don't have that many issues to deal with. Betrayal is a huge issue I have to contend with but she was giving me a lot of rope to hang myself with on that one.
Frank13 Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 So....the last step I had taken with my now confirmed ex, after her multiple days silence was to go NC. She finally calls, I don't pick up and she leaves not only leaves a message but follows up with a cutesy text. I do not return the contact. The next day she calls twice and says " really would like to have a chat " and closed with a cutesy ending, with an LOL at the end. Because I simply don't like being a jerk. I wrote her a very sweet email the next morning saying that I was facing not so nice images that had re-surfaced thanks to my nine month infidelity experience with my exw. That the current " no commitment " stage was unsustainable and that the only way for me to rid myself of these thoughts was to pull myself away from the source emotionally, but that I did not blame her for anything, ie any thoughts I might have rooted in infidelity because she had been clear that there was commitment between us. Note : I had a girlfriend read the message and she thought it was very sweet and nicely put. Well, within five minutes I had a response. She lashed out at me saying that I had done nothing to prove that I was a friend or anything else for that matter. That I made no effort to talk or see her ( BS ) and she was no longer interested anyway. We see this time and time again on these forums. People can't stand being NC so they take the time to write what they think is a nice or perfect email. Then the ex replies with a vengeance. You keep pushing her away by telling her your feelings, that it's not goodbye forever, that you are going to try to sweep her off her feet again, that you are patient and when she is ready to commit to call you. It comes across as very clingy and needy. Hell, after reading your post even I wanted to get away from you and I don't even know you.
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 27, 2012 Author Posted January 27, 2012 Frank13, I am confused...I was telling I was walking away, but ensuring that if she was ready to commit for her to call. I wasn't going to lie about my feelings for her. How does walking away from someone sound needy. And how long should I have held out on the NC ? indefinitely ? I am genuinely confused. I set a boundary that I would not accept playing the " friends " game and I come off as the needy one. OK maybe the ending was a little heavy but screw that it was how I felt. I was asking for a frigging commitment for her not have the freedom to go dating and screwing other guys. I guess you can tolerate that kind of behavior from you SO but I can't. If that makes me needy. Her response was anger because abandonment is a key part of BPD. I was re-assuring her that I wanted this and would not just piss it all away. Anyway, I guess everyone has made their point but I am sorry, as I said in my last post, this woman was wanting me to move in and marry me. She was the needy one for 6 months. It's a little natural to fall in love with someone who you think is right and also natural to feel completely screwed over when she does a complete about face in the space of four weeks. If you have not had the benefit of looking up BPD please or better yet cruise over to my first post and read all of the advice given by people who have gone through the exact same thing. This is not normal relationship dynamics here and what you have done is judge an entire relationship on one letter written without any context. She was the one crying that I was going to leave her for my ex wife, that I didn't show up at her place at the exact time I had specified. Six months of this, then I fell in love. My letter was trying to be nice while letting her know I was walking away for a while. I wasn't going to be an ass about it. I love this girl. I probably should have just said I need to pull away if your interested call me, so I got a little overly romantic. With that said, none of her reaction to it was about picky on my neediness, her response was all about how I proved I wasn't loyal or a true friend and how I made no effort to talk or see her. So she didn't take it as needy, instead she took it as it was intended. I was walking away, that I still loved her but until I got a commitment, I saw no recourse. Context, very important.
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 27, 2012 Author Posted January 27, 2012 Frank, here is a little reading for you so you appreciate why she responded the way she did, which was to react with fury about how I was showing a lack of loyalty and friendship and why she didn't read things the way you seem to have : http://borderlinepersonality.ca/borderabandonwound.htm I was saying I wouldn't tolerate the friendship thing but still wanted the relationship and loved her. Was not letting go completely. In the context of a normal relationship your assessment would have been spot on. Not in this case. Her reaction, cause chaos so that she could feel the sense that she was the one leaving me. Power play. Text book. Context !
Exit Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 Like I said in my initial post in your older thread, I have the very same response to you now, you did the right thing, and you should feel good about that. She reminds me of my ex so very very much. These people play by a different set of (twisted) rules. You were getting the cold shoulder (and don't believe her BS about being busy and not ignoring you intentionally, she KNOWS what game she was playing) so you decided to restate your boundaries and say that this "one foot in one foot out" method was not going to work for you. Instead of being understanding and realizing that her flaky communication was hurting your feelings, she lashes out and you and makes you the bad guy and accuses you of being the one to lose interest. Geez, I feel like you're retelling the story of some of the things I went through with my ex, this is so familiar. It screws with your head to constantly be told that you're the one who did something wrong, and unless you prepare yourself for it and maintain your attachment to reality, you start believing them. These people could show up out of the blue and stab you in the chest as soon as you open your door, yet somehow, they'll stand there yelling at you that you caused it. A while back I made a post in the coping forum where I said I was coming to terms with the fact that I could not win these games because these people have totally unfair rules. The example I used at the time was trying to shoot a basketball through a hoop in a pitch black arena with all the lights off. It's just frigging impossible. But if you listen to their opinion of the situation, you just suck at basketball and can't make a simple basket. But they're the ones with their hands on the light switch keeping it dark in there. I know what you're dealing with is painful and frankly it wouldn't surprise me if you get lured in to having some sort of contact with her again, that's the way this game goes unless you finally decide you are truly done. What you're experiencing from her is the extreme "discredit and disown" phase, the opposite of the way they idealize you when things are going good. It's never just "seems like things aren't working out" from them, it's always "YOU'RE A PIECE OF TRASH, YOU LOST INTEREST, NEVER TALK TO ME AGAIN!!". I can't tell you how many times my ex supposedly told me never to talk to her again (and how many times we continued to talk after that). They see it as a weakness to admit that they still have feelings for you and either they can't admit to it or they just don't recognize it in the first place. But the only way they can process it is to come across in that super hurtful way where all of a sudden you are literally THE most meaningless person on the planet to them. They have to tear you down like that, and it sucks. You did the right thing and I'd say her reactions were totally typical and "Textbook" of someone with emotional issues. Not a single damn thing was her fault. She was "too busy" to respond to your texts, so literally in those 3 days it takes her to respond to you, she didn't have a single spare second to say "sorry I was busy, what's up?". Hah... yeah right. But this is another situation where it's hard to tell, do they know that they aren't admitting to an obvious fault on their part, or are they truly oblivious to the game that they're playing? Maybe in her mind she really thinks she didn't have a single spare second to answer you. Regardless, whether she knows how she is behaving or not, the result is the same, she is totally blameless and it's all your fault. Let me guess how you feel, "I pushed too hard", "I shouldn't have pressured her", "I should have been willing to build back up to the commitment at whatever pace was comfortable for her". I've said all those things to myself but this is just their brainwashing affecting you. No matter what you do, it ends up being wrong.
Surfer Girl Posted January 27, 2012 Posted January 27, 2012 French Perhaps she is not capable of loving you the way you want her to love you...perhaps she is not accustom to you setting a boundary she may not have experienced before in your relationship... IMHO when two people love each other.. the question is why would you not want to be committed? What seems to be a complicated situation in reality comes down to a simple question....either we are committed to each other or not... That question does not need to be justified....and a boundary that needs to be implemented at this stage in the relationship... I do not condone you for exemplifying your feelings as she now knows where you stand....if she is unaccepting of not being able to reciprocate...whether it is BPD talking or not you need to be accepting of her decision.... I have to agree with fluorescent this is the time to detach and step away from the emotional turmoil to gain in time more clarity....when you are in the throes of grief withdrawal it is very difficult to articulate..... time really will give you more perspective as you may continue to conjugate and understand more about yourself and her and how you may have both contributed to to the demise of the ending..... You may cling to hope as we all have....and that is understandable....from her words if she is not interested at this time give her the space she feels she needs and give yourself the space as well.....
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 27, 2012 Author Posted January 27, 2012 Thank you so much exit ! I wasn't looking for a pat on the back from anyone. You hit the nail on the head...yes I was feeling I pushed too hard, like I had just been spun around on office chair, given that several hours before I was the one saying I was walking away until she adhered to my very reasonable demand. I wrote that letter in a completely calm, non judgmental and lucid demeanor. In fact instead of attacking I made it about me, while delivering the same message...that so long as she wanted to play the friend thing that it was not something I would deal with. But I wanted her to know that it wasn't because I was sick of her and was mature enough to say, do what you have to do because I am looking down the road, the future. The thing that was clear after the first break up was that she thought I was done with her. The only reason she made the first move ( the call ) was because I sent her a letter saying I wanted a second shot at this. I believe if I had not done that, that she would have thought I was done. I wanted to ensure that I left the door open and my feelings for her were real. I didn't walk away because I wanted to but because she left me no choice. I didn't want to. Again, in no way was I looking for anyone to come to my defense but thank you man for helping re-align. I was fully prepared and was walking. I wasn't going to be a jerk and I didn't like just blowing her off after a few days of NC. THAT would have been childish plus it's very hard after knowing more about this illness when they come at you with the super sweet approach. Yes it's a manipulation but with all of the research I have done I know it's not malicious but rather a genuine, albeit childish feeling of loss. I read some enlightening posts at BPD family that clarified that they are not vicious animals who enjoy inflicting pain. I didn't plan on, even though I did, set off abandonment fears. I will not be the " screw this your a freak " guy. My only fault was reacting to her after the fact. I should have said " your right...ok....your right " but my emotions got the better of me. Still a virgin in this new game. Yes, your right, I just don't know what I want. As mentioned the most frustrating part is that I have all of this information that I didn't have before ( and learning more by the day ) and I am dying for a chance to have that one last shot to see if I can apply it and make a go of it. I am not expecting her to walk down the aisle, just a window where things are as stable as they can be in such a situation. I hear people going through at least a few months where things are nice again. Not honeymoon, just nice and normal, movies on the couch, etc. I didn't have all of this prep on the first go around, if I had then all of the crap that freaked me out ( push pull etc ) would have been written off. The only extra chance ended up with this whole " let's be friends for a while and see how things go " No chance. As the days go by I may say, I give up but the love is there as are all of the justifications I provided in my previous thread as to why my emotions go beyond some addiction to the honeymoon or idolization phase. I don't need that crap. I just want a shot a normal relationship. I really was starting to think that I might be crazy. It's freaky how absolutely masterful they are at manipulation and I am not a stupid guy but they have this mind screw thing so down that I went from " OK cool, walking away, still love you, give it some thought " to " Am I actually guilty of all of the things she accused me of ? Was I overreacting to being blown off days at a time ? Is it me that has the problem ? " when all I was doing was saying " No I won't be treated like that ! " Two posters had me teetering on the edge of the abyss believing I had done everything incorrectly. I am very sorry you have been exactly where I am but thank my lucky stars that I have your council to bring me back to reality. You da man Exit. I am still stunned by it all but thanks brotha.
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 27, 2012 Author Posted January 27, 2012 Hey SurferGirl, you and florescent may be right but I was ready to let go and would have if she made no effort to return on my small condition but the process would have been less shocking. I wasn't sobbing but having loved her once I ( now ) I wanted to leave that window open that even in a couple of years from now if she realized that we could do this that I was not closed to the idea. I am looking down the road. Maybe I would have found someone else but I wasn't going to slam the door shut. As mentioned I may have over stated my emotions but as also mentioned her reaction wasn't " you are a pathetic spineless weed and I can't respect that and am going to walk all over you from now one " Her reaction was that I was betraying her and wasn't proving my loyalty. I was walking away, a message that seems to have gotten lost in my show of affection at the end. I wanted it to be a gentle crash not the one that ended up happening because she blamed for everything that she was guilty of. She wanted to see if the relationship could progress on her terms and I was cool with that except for the non committal part. I am going to let go, but I am in my second day, cut me some slack:). I love this woman, this wasn't some two date relationship. But I will also retain some hope that maybe some day...in between now and then I might find someone who will commit. On that front though again I have to turn to everything said by the wise minds in my previous thread that said that your either engulfing them which causes them to freak out and run or your distancing from them and they freak out and run towards you. So all of this talk of you guys weren't on the same page is really not accurate because how can I know. I know that when I went NC for two days she was suddenly all over me with communications. How do you read that ? As someone who has lost interest ? Its very convoluted and while some are trying to apply normal relationship dynamics one need only read Exit's post to see that one cannot apply the same logic to this. Does it mean that she and I want the same things, no but who knows if it possible if one has not been given that proper second chance. I believe her fear of commitment is founded on these perceived breaches of trust, in fact she said so. I was totally cool with the slow roll but then I asked her if she had been dating. In her defiance mode she said " yeah I dated a few times...so what " She probably didn't realize the damage she was doing. She wants space, I was giving to her, so why did she fight back so hard instead of simply saying " OK I think space is good ? " Anyway, I didn't start this thread because I was clinging to and bent over in tears, I did so because I needed what exit gave me, confirmation that everything that happened was textbook. That I wasn't the devil for handling things the way I did and that yes, a little shred that even a year from now, I might finally get that one 2nd shot at applying all of this new found logic to handle the moments of " crazy " properly. I mean I was the one offering her all of the space she might have wanted here, this seems to have been lost in this conversation. I was walking because I didn't accept her terms. It's possible that if I had played the friends game she would have rebuilt her trust and then committed but I wasn't ready to take the chance that it could end up in limbo forever so I had to make a move. Now I will go on with my life and see how things play out. If she doesn't make contact so be it but I needed to know from someone who had been down this road that I handled things as best I could under the circumstances. Thanks again exit.
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 27, 2012 Author Posted January 27, 2012 Merci Florescent. L'amour n'est pas seulement dans notre langue mais aussi nous sommes aussi tres amoureux, les Francais. Your advice is absolutely correct and delivered with less venom this go around. You are also correct that I left the door open which seemed indecisive. Regardless the choice is made and I will move on. As I did not do the last time we broke up, I will not make contact. I do not cry and beg because I am worth more than that, but one cannot turn on a dime with such emotions. It's a process and as the distance continues to widen, so will my feelings of disappointment. In the moment, one does lose focus and can turn into a bit of a weakling but one then rebuilds and finds the original strength it took to make the original call. A doormat mentality would have had me going along with her " wait and see " stance. I do hear you. The most critical point in your message though is how to handle future communications, should there be any. To hold my ground, which I will do. No commitment no discussions. With that said, I believe sometimes it is a healthier way to pull away by allowing a little hope to remain. Hope slowly erodes as time goes by. It softens the finality of it all. Merci encore pour tes conseils et je suis ravi de trouver une francophone dans mes envrions. Malgre le fait que je porte un passport Francais, j'ai passer la plus part de ma vie en Asie, alors je parle ma langue paternelle avec un accent parfait, mais je fait des fautes inexcusable quand j'ecrit. Je te souhaite une tres bonne journee. A la prochaine !
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 27, 2012 Author Posted January 27, 2012 (edited) Merci florescent, J'avoue que je suis tres sensible a present, plus, parce que, comme dit, je suis convaincu que cette affair a etais terminer trop tot, sans une propre chance. C'est quand meme dommage que, a cause des resultas comme celle de mon affaire, les gens ce protege trop et ca tue l'amour, avant de vraiment explorer les possibiliters. Comme tu a gentillement dit, j'ai asser d'experience dans la dommaine humain pour reconnetre ou l'amour existe et ou ca n'existe pas. Mais le vie nous presente des obstacles qui fait montez des murs qui rate tous. Des murs qui n'hesiterais pas si la vie n'etais pas si compliquer. Je reste optimiste eternel. Merci encore pour les gentil mots et je vous souhaite le meme. Edited January 27, 2012 by frenchmanfl gramatical errors
Author frenchmanfl Posted January 28, 2012 Author Posted January 28, 2012 Hi Florescent, pretty song. Whether she believes it or not, my view is that it's her loss, even if I will likely continue to hope that she will realize it, I know I can't count on it. In difference to some of the truly difficult stories I have read on this site and others where former lovers are forced to see each other every day ( work or whatever the case may be ), my ex and I life on completely different sides of the city, have no mutual friends together, never connected on a social network because short of reconnecting with a bunch of old friends from around the world, I am not a fan of facebook. In other words there is no link. I pined for my exw until she asked for a divorce and I started to let go and did. Letting go of 20 years was a whole different kettle of fish than this lass. Fortunately my Latin French pride is powerful enough that I just don't like to get toyed with, even if I believe that there are unusual circumstances and gently confident enough that I have plenty to offer than once I have processed this all, I will find another. I still believe this relationship could work, so I won't let go completely but I cannot devote the energy and emotion nor will I reduce myself to waiting for some form of contact. I am better than that. If she should happen to reach out again, my guard is going to be way up. I will not make the same mistake of allowing myself to fall back in. She will have to prove to me that she wants this which will mean that I am going to be the one who plays stand offish this time. May not happen. I will not contact her. In short, I am slowly moving forward. The pain this time isn't nearly as bad as the first because as mentioned we were talking marriage three days before. This time I was actually the one who pushed the break, even if she spun things around and finalized things. A little update on what's in the little brain of mine. Who knows ? Merci beaucoup pour le sentiment, very appreciated that you were thinking of me.
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