spiderowl Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Those things are important no doubt (though women tend to grossly overestimate the significance of the "emotional connection"). Overestimate? How would you know if someone is overestimating what they know they need? How do you know what women need? Money is good, sure, security is important, and fun, but without that emotional connection he's just an acquaintance. I've turned down enough guys because I haven't felt an emotional connection with them. Two were successful Asian guys. They were serious and hardly smiled, focused on their jobs and very ambitious, focused on trying to get to sex rather than relating. If they'd been relaxed, happy and able to hold a conversation about something other than ambition or sex, things might have worked out differently as I do find Asian guys attractive. I have had the same problems with other guys too.
USMCHokie Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 The problem here is an overwhelming sense of entitlement. A man with a good career and a well-paying job is in no way entitled to a woman or a date or a relationship. It's no different from a woman who attracts other men solely on good looks or fake breasts and feels entitled to the most desirable men. She then constantly complains that she always gets pumped and dumped. Go figure. Surprisingly enough, mature people look at the whole package. Sure, you might get a little bit of fleeting attention with your "good job" or beauty, but if that's all you have to offer, people will start looking elsewhere. But to be perfectly honest based on the OP, these guys' careers are not the determinative factor here.
USMCHokie Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Money is good, sure, security is important, and fun, but without that emotional connection he's just an acquaintance. I've turned down enough guys because I haven't felt an emotional connection with them. Two were successful Asian guys. They were serious and hardly smiled, focused on their jobs and very ambitious, focused on trying to get to sex rather than relating. If they'd been relaxed, happy and able to hold a conversation about something other than ambition or sex, things might have worked out differently as I do find Asian guys attractive. I have had the same problems with other guys too. This has nothing to do with career and everything to do with personality...
MGD3 Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 there was a very good discussion/interview a couple of years back that i heard on NPR while driving one day about how our modern society is in decline because liberal arts education is in decline. people raise their kids with toys (games, cars, etc.) then they tell those kids that they should go to school for whatever makes them the most money, and finish school as fast as possible without learning anything unnecessary to their chosen career. then they're told they are supposed to jump right on to the 60-80 hour a week corporate ladder and like it, because it'll pay off shortly before they're dead. then they get laid off/downsized/etc and are told that they should work three jobs and like it to pay for all of the crap they've amassed with debt. meanwhile they don't really know how to live. they don't know how to buy and decorate a house, they imitate the neighbors. they don't know how to buy clothes, they imitate their co-workers. they don't know how to do anything interesting, because they don't have time, they are either working the 3 jobs or the 80 hour a week job. this all results in a society full of middle class robots. people who have little or no redeeming quality. is it any wonder that they struggle with women? women are passionate, they want passionate partners. this wasn't the case in centuries past. in centuries past a liberal education was a privilege. and the way they looked at it in those days, the people who were going to be the leaders of society needed class, not just a trade or skill. they needed to know about art, architecture, social graces, etc. so they were taught those things. not anymore. so there you have it. in short, post WW2 america is a grand failure of a society in many ways. how do those men stop failing with women? stop participating in a bad society. be different. quit the 80 hour a week job, get a different one, that may pay less but allows more time to actually live. do interesting things, and be passionate about them. it boggles my mind that we actually have people who condemn anyone who does things instead of work. really? that sounds like a 40 year old hall monitor, telling other kids that his whistle makes him important, as he tells everyone to behave just as he does or he'll tattle on them. more than one former gf has told me "you don't sound like most men when you talk about xyz, you remind me of how my female friends talk about their interests". which is why i don't have much trouble with women. i can relate to them. i'm not some mindless drone schlepping off to an office every day to compile TPS reports while saluting the corporate honcho every time i walk by him with some false hope that he'll give me a smidge of his attention. alternatively, find a wife who just wants your money and be content with her. Well said my friend, you described mine and so many other men's matrix type life these days. And that is why there should be an urgent push in any man's life to rid himself of all debt (without acquiring more) for freedom and to finally be free and passionate about life.
gaius Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 If you don't know the language that women like then there is no hope no matter how much money you make. A guy I knew from high school managed to weasel his way onto the disability roll even though he can work, and now lives in a dump and has his mother do all his shopping for him. He doesn't even leave the house, and he's 30. He works women online and actually manages to get them to come see him and has scored some steady girlfriends. Pretty ones too! He knows the language.
kaylan Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 No, it was in reference to your lack of literacy and inability to present your thoughts in a logical manner. I didn't even know you were back...in your previous avatar, you looked rather asian. Nice of you to play the race card though...one thing you can always count on. My lack of literacy? Please accurately site my lack of literacy and inability to present thoughts in a logical manner. Until then all I see if ad hominem. My previous avatar was obviously not a portrait of myself, as a few people here knew that. A couple of posters even recognized the character I used for my avatar. Plus, I have stated in several threads that I am black, and my current avatar is obviously of someone with darker skin color and dreadlocks. So no race card here. Considering the fact that I do not even speak in ebonics or use hip hop lingo why even make quip at me about me having a degree in such "subjects"? Do you know what ebonics is? or what typical hip hop language sounds like? So once you take all that into account, and the fact that my race isnt a super secret, you can see why I would interpret your statements as ignorance. You don't need to present ideas in the form on an English paper, but proper spelling and grammar are always appreciated. This is an online forum. Again, please cite my egregious offenses and point out what was so hard to understand in my previous posts. Its typical of some posters in online discussions to go the ad hominem route of attacking their opponents character instead of refuting the points. Dont take that avenue please...stick to my original points. And what exactly are you doing to "pay your dues"? You still haven't told me what you do for a living. What does my current occupation have to do with my original argument? I simply told you that I am educated, dont work in a coffee house, and at the same time am a musician. My point from the beginning was that aspiring artists, musicians, and writers can be as educated as the rest of the "solid middle class". A lot of them went to school and hold professional jobs and arent focusing solely on their artistic work. Please tell me how this statement is wrong since you seem to disagree with it, and continuously make huge generalizations about artistic people. Hell, my best friends old CFO is a highly accomplished professional and guitarist. The guy regularly gigs on the weekends for fun, and also has a successful professional career. Hes not some starving artist who cannot support a family. If my music career doesnt kick off, I plan to be like him one day. I will take care of my family but still jam on the weekends. Its not like Im putting my entire educational and professional career on hold to focus solely on music. Sure some people do that, but some people also keep their backup plan going. I actually plan to attend masters classes online even if I end up in a marginally successful band that does small regional tours. I dont plan to put either side of my life on hold.
USMCHokie Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 If you don't know the language that women like then there is no hope no matter how much money you make. A guy I knew from high school managed to weasel his way onto the disability roll even though he can work, and now lives in a dump and has his mother do all his shopping for him. He doesn't even leave the house, and he's 30. He works women online and actually manages to get them to come see him and has scored some steady girlfriends. Pretty ones too! He knows the language. Is he particularly good looking?
Feelsgoodman Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Overestimate? How would you know if someone is overestimating what they know they need? How do you know what women need? Because that's all that women talk about nowadays. Emotional connection...as if it's the only thing that matters. Money is good, sure, security is important, and fun, but without that emotional connection he's just an acquaintance. And if all you have is an emotional connection, he's just a lover. And such relationships don't last because no matter how much you may fancy him and how much he may be into you, these feelings are bound to change over time. In fact, the stronger the initial attraction, the sooner it will fizzle out. A successful long-term relationship will inevitably be based on more than just emotions and butterflies. I firmly believe this is the main reason why the divorce rate is so high nowadays. People (and especially women) think they can live a fairy tale life. They want to fall in love with their perfect prince charming and remain in a state of neverending vagina-tingling bliss for the rest of their days. And when things don't work out that way (as they never do in real life), they get divorced and try again. In the past, financial and religious constraints prevent ed this sort of thing from happening but nowadays everything is fair game. Women in the 21st century are like overgrown children...instead of living in the real world, they are obsessed with their "dreams".
gaius Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Is he particularly good looking? No, totally average. Not fat but not muscular either. He just knows exactly how to talk to women.
Woggle Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 I have seen many of these hipsters and a good deal of them are spoiled rich kids being bankrolled by their parents. They are also destroying neighborhoods in NYC through gentrification. I have nothing against musicians because I play the guitar sometimes myself but many of these kids have no concept of struggle or really scraping to get by and make something of yourself. They are able to be lazy because they have a privileged background to fall back on. They have never really been in the trenches and I think a person doesn't really develop character and depth until they have been in the trenches.
somedude81 Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 No, totally average. Not fat but not muscular either. He just knows exactly how to talk to women. What school did he go to? I want to get get a degree in Female Communication as well.
xpaperxcutx Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 This has nothing to do with career and everything to do with personality... Because some men who strive for a career lack personality? I have known guys who are so successful, that instead of working on how to socialize, they let their money do the talking. (What school did he go to? I want to get get a degree in Female Communication as well. Haha Somedude.
laotzu Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 The problem here is an overwhelming sense of entitlement. A man with a good career and a well-paying job is in no way entitled to a woman or a date or a relationship. It's no different from a woman who attracts other men solely on good looks or fake breasts and feels entitled to the most desirable men. She then constantly complains that she always gets pumped and dumped. Go figure. Surprisingly enough, mature people look at the whole package. Sure, you might get a little bit of fleeting attention with your "good job" or beauty, but if that's all you have to offer, people will start looking elsewhere. But to be perfectly honest based on the OP, these guys' careers are not the determinative factor here. Absolute truth. You don't seem like the same guy who was posting here a few months ago. Act as though you deserve something, and you don't. The idea of entitlement isn't attractive. (We overthrew aristocracy for a reason, people.)
KathyM Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Women look at the whole package, not just one thing. If all the guy has going for him is a good job, then he's not going to score that many dates. Women want someone who is fun to be with, who has a charming personality, who is attractive, intelligent, etc. It used to be that a good job was a huge factor for women when choosing a mate, back in the olden days when women's only goals were to be a wife and mother, but now that women have their own outside jobs and income, that aspect is less important. It's just one of several things. Personality and appearance are still the big one-two punch that gets you the girl/guy. If you don't have either of those two things going for you, and preferably both, you are not going to be that appealing to a lot of women, unless, of course, you are filthy rich, which might attract the golddiggers.
laotzu Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 If you don't know the language that women like then there is no hope no matter how much money you make. A guy I knew from high school managed to weasel his way onto the disability roll even though he can work, and now lives in a dump and has his mother do all his shopping for him. He doesn't even leave the house, and he's 30. He works women online and actually manages to get them to come see him and has scored some steady girlfriends. Pretty ones too! He knows the language. Environment matters, and so does market. I could bang half a dozen "pretty ones" if I wanted to, but I also care about intelligence, a girl's career path, and overall quality of character. He's not banging 25 year-old Med students with a tight ass, and if you tell me he is, let me know the strain you're smoking. Pretty isn't everything, just as money isn't everything. Hence the topic of the thread.
USMCHokie Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Because some men who strive for a career lack personality? I have known guys who are so successful, that instead of working on how to socialize, they let their money do the talking. That was not where I was going with that. One's personality is quite independent of his/her career. That's why I said career is not a determinative factor in one's personality. There are men with great careers that have great personalities and men with great careers with sh*tty personalities. The ones with crappy personalities would probably have the same personality regardless of their career.
xpaperxcutx Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 That was not where I was going with that. One's personality is quite independent of his/her career. That's why I said career is not a determinative factor in one's personality. There are men with great careers that have great personalities and men with great careers with sh*tty personalities. The ones with crappy personalities would probably have the same personality regardless of their career. I do believe a person's career parth can be a contributing factor. For example I have a friend who was previously in the marines who has a personality of an angry old man. He is prone to angry outbursts and yet can take critcisms a little too seriously. He has also been passive aggressive. I do not know whether it's because he's been in the marines for 4 years but those years spent in the bunkers have given him a " never back down" attitude. So yea, environment, career, etc. can affect how you interact with others. Like myself, because I am in customer service, I have a very outgoing and friendly personality. I can say this was a step up from a few years back where I was still very quiet spoken and introverted.
USMCHokie Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 I do believe a person's career parth can be a contributing factor. For example I have a friend who was previously in the marines who has a personality of an angry old man. He is prone to angry outbursts and yet can take critcisms a little too seriously. He has also been passive aggressive. I do not know whether it's because he's been in the marines for 4 years but those years spent in the bunkers have given him a " never back down" attitude. So yea, environment, career, etc. can affect how you interact with others. Like myself, because I am in customer service, I have a very outgoing and friendly personality. I can say this was a step up from a few years back where I was still very quiet spoken and introverted. Of course it's a contributing factor, but it's not the only factor, nor is it even a primary factor.
somedude81 Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 My career path is Information Systems which works with my personality. Yeah, not the best for getting the ladies. Too bad we just can't be presented with a wife when we graduate. Would make everything so much easier.
Jane2011 Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 I'm definitely looking for love (and true attraction to a person) over financial security. I have a female friend who keeps setting me up with guys, always with the "he has a good job and makes good money" endorsement. She means well, and I appreciate her trying to find guys for me, but I don't usually care about a guy's job and if he makes good money. It'd be nice if I truly fell in love with a guy who happened to have a good job and makes good money, but so far in my life, I've always loved men who did not have that "perfectly financially established" thing happening. I don't know why. I haven't read this entire thread, but I skimmed a little and saw some wording along the lines of "they're boring." Honestly? They often are. It's not the other extreme either. I also skimmed some "drug-addict unemployed" "metrosexual hipster who sleeps til noon" mumbo jumbo too. I've always liked men who had goals and plans and made some money; they just don't have it all laid out all perfectly. Last guy I dated was an ex-teacher who is now going back to school for his Master's degree. So, while dating him, he wasn't able to wine and dine me constantly. He had his own place and his own car, but he certainly wouldn't have been prepared for a lot of "adult" things like owning a home, having kids, etc. Other guys I've dated recently...a waiter hoping to start an online business, one was going to cooking school and working about three part-time jobs, another boyfriend I had was a writer when I first met him, he also took some teaching jobs and had various internships in nature/botany positions. I dunno...I'm just saying that all my boyfriends were doing something productive and made some money, they just weren't 9 to 5 accountant or business types.
Dust Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 I think what he meant to say was "I don't care how great of a catch a woman is I'm going to talk to her like she is just a nice warm hole to stick my d*ck in and if that makes me undesireable so be it." More along the lines of if I'm a catch what do I want with a woman who can't perform the most basic of girlfriendly duties. Because the title of this thread should be "hard time getting good gf" because if you just want any old gf theres always a cypress or two ready for the snatching. Ready to devote yourself to the priest hood of cypress.
Jane2011 Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Women look at the whole package, not just one thing. If all the guy has going for him is a good job, then he's not going to score that many dates. Women want someone who is fun to be with, who has a charming personality, who is attractive, intelligent, etc. It used to be that a good job was a huge factor for women when choosing a mate, back in the olden days when women's only goals were to be a wife and mother, but now that women have their own outside jobs and income, that aspect is less important. It's just one of several things. Personality and appearance are still the big one-two punch that gets you the girl/guy. If you don't have either of those two things going for you, and preferably both, you are not going to be that appealing to a lot of women, unless, of course, you are filthy rich, which might attract the golddiggers. Exactly! Personality and looks are everything to me. I make no bones about it. There was a thread on this board recently about people being too picky. I'm not picky about jobs and money. I'm picky about personality. I want someone who's intelligent and fun to talk to and be with. I'd marry a waiter if he were charming and attractive (and caring, loving, with good relationship skills). And "charming" doesn't mean some glib, smooth-talking guy necessarily. Even shyer, less boisterous men can be -- and often are -- charming. It's hard to put one's finger on what makes a person charming, but it manifests in various ways.
thatone Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 That is such a load of crap. First of all the average Joe does not work anywhere near 60-80 hours. Some lawyers and investment bankers work those types of hours in their junior years, but the vast majority of Americans are not lawyers or investment bankers. The average Joe works a 9-5 job with a few hours of overtime here and there for a total of maybe 40-45 hours a week. In the old days, the average Joe would be a farmer who toiled the land from dawn till dusk and spent the evening hours fixing his tools or tending after livestock. The average peasant in the good old days worked 100+ hours per week...I'm sure those were real passionate romantics and knew how to live it's not a load of crap, actually it's entirely accurate, and you failed to read the thread title, try again. the OP isn't talking about average joes. funny you mention farmers, though, because the average farmer these days is also a corporate employee!
thatone Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 Well said my friend, you described mine and so many other men's matrix type life these days. And that is why there should be an urgent push in any man's life to rid himself of all debt (without acquiring more) for freedom and to finally be free and passionate about life. somewhere along the line freedom got confused with doing someone else's bidding. a political stunt turned lifestyle. it's a pretty dangerous thing for someone to believe their own bullsh*t. that's what a lot of america is doing, sadly.
Woggle Posted January 26, 2012 Posted January 26, 2012 I am for the most part debt free and I love it.
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